Question for Seventh Day Adventist members

LoveGodsWord · Apr 8, 2021

Daniel Marsh said:
Why would a Bright Light need a lesser light to point to it?

What is the role of prophets and prophecy in the Church? So let's talk scripture do you not think God has given the Church a gift in Prophecy? I posted to someone else earlier asking the questions

What is it that you disagree with in making this thread? Let's talk scripture bringing everything to the light of God's Word? The premise of this thread seems to be to be claiming that God's Church does not have the gift of prophecy. This premise is not biblical and goes against the teachings of the scriptures as shown in the new covenant that God's Church has spiritual gifts one of them of course being prophecy as shown in *Acts of the Apostles 2:17-19; Romans 12:6; 1 Corinthians 12:10; 13:9; 14:31-39; 1 Timothy 4:14; 2 Peter 1:19.

In fact one of the signs of God's true Church in the last days is that they have the gift of the Spirit of Prophecy, and that they know end time events according to John in Revelation 12:17 who says God's people have the "testimony of Jesus" defined in the scriptures in Revelation 19:10 as the "Spirit of prophecy". Now these of course are God's Words not my words.

Now dear friend let's talk scripture and look at the premise of this thread here. Are you saying that Gods' Church does not have the spiritual gift from God of prophecy? It is this premise that has been shown through this thread that is disturbing in my view as it is not biblical to claim that Gods' people do not have God's Spirit or spiritual gifts of prophecy when the scriptures clearly show that they do.

If we can talk scripture for a while I will be happy to have a discussion here. If not I am sure we both have better things to do with our time.

Daniel Marsh · Apr 13, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Well we will have to agree to disagree on that one I think. You do know Gibbon's Historical works on the Rise and fall of the Roman Empire are classics classified as Historical master pieces right? I do not think your link to someone Blog that you have provided above does not take away from this. I have not seen that Gibbon's is stating that the fall of the Roman Empire was due to it's embrace of Christianity and have never used any of His Works to teach such things so not really relevant to me and your quote from Wiki does not mean much either as I have never seen all scholars agree on all things either. I do know however that this work was considered by Historical scholars as a master piece and he is an unbiased source that I have used in the past fro information in regards to the Roman Empire. There is no other Historical references that I am aware of that are unbiased that have the same credibility as this set of books in regards to History in regards to the Roman Empire.
I think personally it is a pretty big call to say any of the celebrated Historical classic like those from Gibbons or those from d'Aubigné are outdated which is only your opinion in my view. What makes them outdated? They are still celebrated Historical classics and while no large works like these will ever be perfect there are no Historical references that I am aware of that are perfect from what I have ever seen with all works always having critics for whatever reason. As mentioned earlier we draw from a wide range of Historical references not a few and this was the point I was trying to make earlier. What your opinion is of different Historians are does not really matter to me as there is no such thing as a perfect one. Thanks for sharing your view though but it is not one that I hold.

I am an University trained History expert. The sources you brought up that you claim are an "unbiased source" are very biased and outdated. The links I gave are more in line with how those works are viewed today. We can in brotherly love agree to disagree.

LoveGodsWord · Apr 13, 2021

Daniel Marsh said:
I am an University trained History expert. The sources you brought up that you claim are an "unbiased source" are very biased and outdated. The links I gave are more in line with how those works are viewed today. We can in brotherly love agree to disagree.

Thank you for your view but I do not believe you. How are the sources I have provided biased when they are celebrated classics of the time and nothing to do with the SDA Church? How are they outdated in the content they provide? I find it amazing that every generation furthest away from when historical events actually happens believe that they have the truth and anything written before hand is outdated and not truthful. Simply amazing and something that reminds me of Chinese whispers.

prodromos · Apr 13, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Thank you for your view but I do not believe you. How are the sources I have provided biased when they are celebrated classics of the time and nothing to do with the SDA Church? How are they outdated in the content they provide? I find it amazing that every generation furthest away from when historical events actually happens believe that they have the truth and anything written before hand is outdated and not truthful. Simply amazing and something that reminds me of Chinese whispers.

What have you quoted from Gibbon? I haven't seen you cite anything of his in this thread so fail to see what it has to do with anything.

LoveGodsWord · Apr 14, 2021

prodromos said:
What have you quoted from Gibbon? I haven't seen you cite anything of his in this thread so fail to see what it has to do with anything.

Congratulations good observation. Now please follow the conversation.

prodromos · Apr 14, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Congratulations good observation. Follow the conversation.

Answer the question

tall73 · Apr 27, 2021

The Liturgist said:
No, I am referring to her book of anti-Roman Catholic apologetics, which contains a number of glaring historical inaccuracies and unsupported suppositions, particularly with regards to ancient sects that she erroneously assumed or declared to be Sabbatarian when in fact they weren’t even Christian but Gnostic.

I think you will find this article interesting:

Ellen G. White® Estate: W. W. PRESCOTT AND THE 1911 EDITION OF GREAT CONTROVERSY

When the printing plates for the initial version of the Great Controversy wore out they created new ones, but with changes to the text, to credit, and update, historical sources.

This discusses some of the specific recommendations for revision from Prescott, and how each was handled.

tall73 · Apr 27, 2021

The Liturgist said:
Because White declared herself an inspired prophet and therefore either completely fallible or completely infallible, which I did not even know about until today, when you showed me those quotes, Adventists will, if confronted with data which contradicts White, dismiss the data as irrelevant.

Ellen White discusses her uses of sources:

The Great Controversy

As the Spirit of God has opened to my mind the great truths of His word, and the scenes of the past and the future, I have been bidden to make known to others that which has thus been revealed—to trace the history of the controversy in past ages, and especially so to present it as to shed a light on the fast-approaching struggle of the future. In pursuance of this purpose, I have endeavored to select and group together events in the history of the church in such a manner as to trace the unfolding of the great testing truths that at different periods have been given to the world, that have excited the wrath of Satan, and the enmity of a world-loving church, and that have been maintained by the witness of those who “loved not their lives unto the death.”

The great events which have marked the progress of reform in past ages are matters of history, well known and universally acknowledged by the Protestant world; they are facts which none can gainsay. This history I have presented briefly, in accordance with the scope of the book, and the brevity which must necessarily be observed, the facts having been condensed into as little space as seemed consistent with a proper understanding of their application. In some cases where a historian has so grouped together events as to afford, in brief, a comprehensive view of the subject, or has summarized details in a convenient manner, his words have been quoted; but in some instances no specific credit has been given, since the quotations are not given for the purpose of citing that writer as authority, but because his statement affords a ready and forcible presentation of the subject. In narrating the experience and views of those carrying forward the work of reform in our own time, similar use has been made of their published works.

Daniel Marsh · Apr 27, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Thank you for your view but I do not believe you. How are the sources I have provided biased when they are celebrated classics of the time and nothing to do with the SDA Church? How are they outdated in the content they provide? I find it amazing that every generation furthest away from when historical events actually happens believe that they have the truth and anything written before hand is outdated and not truthful. Simply amazing and something that reminds me of Chinese whispers.

They are basically Protestant Propaganda sources. The result is poor history due to bias, not objective at all. Also, there are many historical errors in them because of their bias.

LoveGodsWord · Apr 30, 2021

Daniel Marsh said:
They are basically Protestant Propaganda sources. The result is poor history due to bias, not objective at all. Also, there are many historical errors in them because of their bias.

Yes a common argument used by those who do not have one.

prodromos · Apr 30, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Yes a common argument to those who do not have one.

That is you apparently. You still haven't given an answer to post #124

LoveGodsWord · Apr 30, 2021

prodromos said:
That is you apparently. You still haven't given an answer to post #124

Or it could be you or anyone else that brushes off scripture supported by history. What question would that be?

prodromos · Apr 30, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Or it could be you or anyone else that brushes off scripture supported by history. What question would that be?

Funny, it was you that brushed off my question. Scroll back up the page and you will find it.

LoveGodsWord · Apr 30, 2021

prodromos said:
Funny, it was you that brushed off my question. Scroll back up the page and you will find it.

If you have a question relevant to the conversation just ask it. I am not going looking for questions you have asked that are not relevant to the discussion.

prodromos · Apr 30, 2021

I have followed the conversation. Why won't you answer?

LoveGodsWord · Apr 30, 2021

prodromos said:
I have followed the conversation. Why won't you answer?

Answer what exactly?

Daniel Marsh · Apr 30, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Yes a common argument used by those who do not have one.

The Babylon Connection? by Ralph Woodrow
https://www.amazon.com/Babylon-Connection-Ralph-Woodrow/dp/0916938174

Genuine Historians have not taken the Two Babylon type nonsense seriously for decades.

Fischer, David Hackett. Historians' Fallacies: Toward a Logic of Historical Thought.

Histories and Fallacies: Problems Faced in the Writing of History by Carl R. Trueman

Cognitive bias - Wikipedia

Daniel Marsh · Apr 30, 2021

read to here

LoveGodsWord · Apr 30, 2021

Daniel Marsh said:
The Babylon Connection? by Ralph Woodrow
https://www.amazon.com/Babylon-Connection-Ralph-Woodrow/dp/0916938174

Genuine Historians have not taken the Two Babylon type nonsense seriously for decades.

Fischer, David Hackett. Historians' Fallacies: Toward a Logic of Historical Thought.

Histories and Fallacies: Problems Faced in the Writing of History by Carl R. Trueman

Cognitive bias - Wikipedia

Every view has bias and critics especially if it does not agree with teachings that are viewed as truthful. That does not mean it is right or wrong.

tall73 · Apr 30, 2021

imge said:
She does not claim to be a "Prophet" She only claimed God gave her messages to share

Yes, she said she was a messenger. However:

Why have I not claimed to be a prophet?--Because in these days many who boldly claim that they are prophets are a reproach to the cause of Christ; and because my work includes much more than the word "prophet" signifies. {RH, July 26, 1906}

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