The Parousia of Antichrist

Timtofly

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Well that’s close to a full preterits view. I think it’s possible there was a coming in 70 AD but I definitely think there is still a final coming.

2 Peter 3:10 leads me to believe there is a last day, obviously the earth still exists today.
It is called the Day of the Lord. It is a last 1000 years. Peter says do not ignore verse 8.
 
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Douggg

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So if the 2 witness are within the Rapture anytime era, the 7th seal was opened when? Before the first seal? Have the 2 witnesses been left behind or have been raptured and returned?
Actually, Jesus opened all of the seals at the time when John was presented Revelation - so that we know what is in the book.

But none of the events secured by the seals have taken place yet. What we want to focus on are those events.

The 7th seal that Jesus opened introduces the rest of Revelation, i.e. all of the details to take place during the 7 year 70th week.

The two witnesses are not taken by the rapture, because their purpose is to be here testifying to the Jews, Israel, because the Jews (non-Christians) will not be taken in the rapture - and will end up going through the great tribulation.

Matthew 24:15-31 is a message to the Jews, such as them in Judea, because they end up going through the great tribulation. Flee to the mountains in order to survive.

Differently, Matthew 24:32-51, the parable of the fig tree generation, and the instruction to be watching for the Lord is for Christians - on how to avoid going through the great tribulation, by the Lord's coming in the rapture event.

The Jews are not interested in what the new testament says, but we as Christians are interested in the parable of the fig tree generation, because it tells us the season when all of the end times events will happen and also the rapture. Our time here is almost done.

The eight heads of the beasts are just kings of the roman empire. It must be during the little horn. The eighth head is the king is after or before the beast(King of Israel) and/or Antichrist?
Note there are only 7 heads on the beast in Revelation 13.

The only head we are concerned with is the one that will be mortally wounded but healed.

upload_2021-4-5_12-40-50.png



That one head is king 7 of the Roman Empire, the one yet to come in Revelation 17:10. He will be killed, and comes back to life as the beast person, king 8.

What it doesn't say in Revelation is why he is mortally wounded (killed) but healed. We have to get that information from 2Thessalonians2:3-4 and Ezekiel 28:1-10, about his claim to be God, and God has him killed for it. And in disdain for the person brings him back to life, in Isaiah 14:18-20, for the purpose of bringing to the close the end of the age.

There are other factors that go into it regarding the person of not only being the King of the Roman Empire, but also the King of Israel for a short time as the Antichrist.

little horn, beast - king (7 then later 8) of the Roman Empire.

Antichrist - king of Israel, perceived messiah by the Jews for a while, sandwiched in between.
 
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grafted branch

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It is called the Day of the Lord. It is a last 1000 years. Peter says do not ignore verse 8.
If the “last day” is the 1,000 years, and this day has been going on for 1,991 years so far, then you obviously are similar to Amil in that it’s not a literal 1,000 years. Is this correct?
 
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Timtofly

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If the “last day” is the 1,000 years, and this day has been going on for 1,991 years so far, then you obviously are similar to Amil in that it’s not a literal 1,000 years. Is this correct?
The last days is not the Day of the Lord. The Second Coming is the Day of the Lord. Just think, if you do not think the millennium is as long as God's Word claims, the reign of Christ could still be an indefinite period of time like the last days. At least according to some poster's eschatology.
 
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grafted branch

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The last days is not the Day of the Lord. The Second Coming is the Day of the Lord. Just think, if you do not think the millennium is as long as God's Word claims, the reign of Christ could still be an indefinite period of time like the last days. At least according to some poster's eschatology.
I’m not sure I really understand what you saying here.

In post #99 you said “The Second Coming has not happened yet”
In post #101 you said “It is called the Day of the Lord. It is a last 1000 years”
In post #104 you said “The last days is not the Day of the Lord. The Second Coming is the Day of the Lord”

Are you saying the Second Coming last for 1,000 years?
 
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Timtofly

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I’m not sure I really understand what you saying here.

In post #99 you said “The Second Coming has not happened yet”
In post #101 you said “It is called the Day of the Lord. It is a last 1000 years”
In post #104 you said “The last days is not the Day of the Lord. The Second Coming is the Day of the Lord”

Are you saying the Second Coming last for 1,000 years?
2 Peter 3:8

The Day of the Lord is 1000 years. The Second Coming is the time the Lamb comes and prepares for the Day of the Lord, just like the first time when He came to prepare for the church, his bride.

The last days seems to be the catch all phrase for the church age. Some do not accept dispensations. Calling this time the last days, may be a "work around".
 
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grafted branch

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2 Peter 3:8

The Day of the Lord is 1000 years. The Second Coming is the time the Lamb comes and prepares for the Day of the Lord, just like the first time when He came to prepare for the church, his bride.

The last days seems to be the catch all phrase for the church age. Some do not accept dispensations. Calling this time the last days, may be a "work around".
2 Peter 3:8 just says "one day" not Day of the Lord. So I’m still confused about your view.

From post #97 “The last day was on the Cross.” If I put your posts together since #97 I get this …

The last day occurs on the cross approx. 30 AD
We are now in the lasts days (plural) which come after the last day.
The second coming happens to prepare for the Day of the Lord
The Day of the Lord (second coming?) will occur next and last 1,000 years.

I’m almost afraid to ask, but what about Satan’s little season after the 1,000 years, what would it be called? Perhaps it should be called “absolutely positively the very last final days”?
 
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Chi.C

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Actually, Jesus opened all of the seals at the time when John was presented Revelation - so that we know what is in the book.

But none of the events secured by the seals have taken place yet. What we want to focus on are those events.

The 7th seal that Jesus opened introduces the rest of Revelation, i.e. all of the details to take place during the 7 year 70th week.

The two witnesses are not taken by the rapture, because their purpose is to be here testifying to the Jews, Israel, because the Jews (non-Christians) will not be taken in the rapture - and will end up going through the great tribulation.

Matthew 24:15-31 is a message to the Jews, such as them in Judea, because they end up going through the great tribulation. Flee to the mountains in order to survive.

Differently, Matthew 24:32-51, the parable of the fig tree generation, and the instruction to be watching for the Lord is for Christians - on how to avoid going through the great tribulation, by the Lord's coming in the rapture event.

The Jews are not interested in what the new testament says, but we as Christians are interested in the parable of the fig tree generation, because it tells us the season when all of the end times events will happen and also the rapture. Our time here is almost done.

Note there are only 7 heads on the beast in Revelation 13.

The only head we are concerned with is the one that will be mortally wounded but healed.
That one head is king 7 of the Roman Empire, the one yet to come in Revelation 17:10. He will be killed, and comes back to life as the beast person, king 8.

What it doesn't say in Revelation is why he is mortally wounded (killed) but healed. We have to get that information from 2Thessalonians2:3-4 and Ezekiel 28:1-10, about his claim to be God, and God has him killed for it. And in disdain for the person brings him back to life, in Isaiah 14:18-20, for the purpose of bringing to the close the end of the age.

There are other factors that go into it regarding the person of not only being the King of the Roman Empire, but also the King of Israel for a short time as the Antichrist.

little horn, beast - king (7 then later 8) of the Roman Empire.

Antichrist - king of Israel, perceived messiah by the Jews for a while, sandwiched in between.
#94 , diagram
Daily sacrifice - The daily sacrifice begins and stops on the same day? If I start and end on the same day is it a daily thing? Why? Should the devil fulfill the prophecies of God.

The transgression of desolation is different for AoD? How so? Is the little horn of Daniel 8:9 the same as that of the beast? Is the grecia empire the same as the roman one? If so, then how so?

The man of sin was the king of tyre, satan in previous incarnations? Were all the horned creatures persons or empires? Please state the criterions that separate these 2 categories (person or empire)

The man of sin dies and comes back as a zombie warrior? Isa 14:19 "But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcass trodden under feet." Is there an example of this Divine Vindictive resurrection? Other than the Divine Vindictiveness is there any other need/reason to raise up the devil/demons?

Are the Revelation 13 visions chronologically concurrent or just conceptual? The false prophet needs to be at least 3 years old to talk. Messiahs can be pushed to be 7 or 8 years old (tantric buddhists) so he can hold a credible conversation or ritual, devis need to be quite old. Since the false prophet wields power of the beast (little horn>Antichrist>beast) when did he do so - during the 7 years or before? If they are persons and time is near, should we see some attributable false miracles?

#90 video (I study at night usually so the sound is usally muted I might have missed something)
The first 1260 days is based on Revelation 11:3 and 12:6 - the descration of the 2 witness corpses and the woman being hidden in the wilderness? Who are the woman and child? When did the devil come to earth (to watch the birth of the child)?

The second 1260 days is based on the resurrection of the 2 witnesses and Revelation 11:2. The second 1260 days is separate from the first 1260 days. Why if it is separate on by 1 verse? Why 1260 days of Revelation 12:6 the precedent time not the antecedent time when the verse is in the antecedent chapter compared to Revelation .

With all that have been said, my understanding of the Scriptures is completely inconsistent with the basis of your interpretation. I predict I will have more questions as I compare your version of the antichrist explanation to the Scriptures. Your vision is fantastic. It requires alot of faith and the suspension my beliefs to accept your vision. However, I need to believe to have my faith. I will leave it here for now.
 
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Timtofly

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2 Peter 3:8 just says "one day" not Day of the Lord. So I’m still confused about your view.

From post #97 “The last day was on the Cross.” If I put your posts together since #97 I get this …

The last day occurs on the cross approx. 30 AD
We are now in the lasts days (plural) which come after the last day.
The second coming happens to prepare for the Day of the Lord
The Day of the Lord (second coming?) will occur next and last 1,000 years.

I’m almost afraid to ask, but what about Satan’s little season after the 1,000 years, what would it be called? Perhaps it should be called “absolutely positively the very last final days”?
The Lord's Day, Day of the Lord is the Lord on earth with us. That is 1000 years of our time with the Lord. Not for the church, it is for those living on the earth.
 
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grafted branch

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The Lord's Day, Day of the Lord is the Lord on earth with us. That is 1000 years of our time with the Lord. Not for the church, it is for those living on the earth.
Revelation 16:13-16 describes that great day of God as the battle of Armageddon. Would you say this battle is the 1,000 years of our time with the Lord? Or do you think there is more than one Day of the Lord?
 
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Douggg

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#94 , diagram
Daily sacrifice - The daily sacrifice begins and stops on the same day? If I start and end on the same day is it a daily thing? Why? Should the devil fulfill the prophecies of God.
The daily sacrifice will begin again on day 220 of the 7 years (2520 days long).

We are not informed when the daily sacrifice will be stopped exactly, so as to know a specific day. We are told approximately in Daniel 9:27, that it will be stopped in the midst (middle part) of the week (70th week of years).

upload_2021-4-7_1-48-19.png



The transgression of desolation is different for AoD? How so? Is the little horn of Daniel 8:9 the same as that of the beast? Is the grecia empire the same as the roman one? If so, then how so?
The transgression of desolation is an "act". The abomination of desolation is a "thing".

"desolation" in these two cases, refers to the temple becoming void of the praise and worship of the One True God when the desolation is taking place.

The transgression of desolation is the act by the Antichrist in 2Thessalonians2:4. Going into the temple, sitting, claiming to have achieved God-hood.

The abomination of desolation takes place a little later, after the person is killed (for claiming to be God) and brought back to life (as the beast). The abomination of desolation will be the image (a statue) of the beast person that the false prophet has made and placed on the temple grounds.

We can know what the end times abomination of desolation will be in concept because it was prefigured historically when Antiochus had a statue image of Zeus placed in the temple, called the abomination that makes desolate in Daniel 11:

31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

The man of sin dies and comes back as a zombie warrior? Isa 14:19 "But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcass trodden under feet." Is there an example of this Divine Vindictive resurrection? Other than the Divine Vindictiveness is there any other need/reason to raise up the devil/demons?
Not a zombie which are Hollywood film fictional monster characters and nothing to do with the bible.

It is the person's soul returned to his body, bringing him back to life as the world will witnesss it happening. Envision the person laying dead in a casket at his funeral suddenly sitting up back to life.

Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Although the person will be killed, he is never actually buried - Isaiah 14:

20 Thou shalt not be joined with them [other famous kings had big ornate tombs] in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people [an indication the person will be a Jew]: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.


So his soul does enter hell, for a brief time, but his body never is actually buried. Which it can be put together from Revelation 17:8 above, of the people of the world are wondered because they will see him killed, and come back to life - and never being buried, it can be concluded it will be in his open casket that he will sit up back alive as the cameras are on him.


Are the Revelation 13 visions chronologically concurrent or just conceptual? The false prophet needs to be at least 3 years old to talk.

The visions in Revelation are not in a straight through sequence chronologically speaking. The approach I take is event driven. In other words, read about the events and all of the information given - and then organize them into a critical path. Like the red line on the chart.

Critical path method is a approach used in project management. It is just a logical way of thinking, when timeframes are available. Which we have timeframes presented in bible prophecy.
_____________________________

The false prophet will be a grown man, probably in his 30's or 40's when he appears on the scene.

The second 1260 days is based on the resurrection of the 2 witnesses and Revelation 11:2. The second 1260 days is separate from the first 1260 days. Why if it is separate on by 1 verse? Why 1260 days of Revelation 12:6 the precedent time not the antecedent time when the verse is in the antecedent chapter compared to Revelation .
We have to look at "events". And match the "like" timeframes together, to be either in the first half or second half.

The 42 months in Revelation 11:2 match the 42 months in Revelation 13:5 which the beast rules until Jesus returns to cast the beast into the lake of fire. So the 42 months are in the second half.

Before the person becomes the beast, the two witnesses will be testifying about Jesus to the Jews, for the majority of their 1260 days, and that the Jews' so called messiah the Antichrist is a deceiver.

At the end of the 1260 days, the Antichrist person will have transformed into the beast, having betrayed the Jews. As the beast, he kills the two witnesses and then rules the remaining 42 months unhampered by them, as they will be gone from the earth. That's how we know the 1260 days of the two witnesses are in the first half.

With all that have been said, my understanding of the Scriptures is completely inconsistent with the basis of your interpretation. I predict I will have more questions as I compare your version of the antichrist explanation to the Scriptures. Your vision is fantastic. It requires alot of faith and the suspension my beliefs to accept your vision. However, I need to believe to have my faith. I will leave it here for now.

I understand. I am 72 years old, and it would not be unreasonable that by experience I have probably been exposed to more information. One of the things that I have experienced that most Christians have not, that has benefited me in understanding the end time prophecies, is that I have argued with and discussed with the Jews at their sites, learning what they believe. Over 10,000 posts. It is a difficult task in communicating with them that most Christians do not want to deal with understandably.

My career background (long time ago, 20 years back) is project engineering which required critical path method of charting based on events that must take place in the course of getting the project accomplished. So charts are kinda of a natural thing for me.

Understanding of the end times overview is not nearly so difficult if a person grasps that the arch villain of the end times goes through three basic stages on his way to his destruction.

little horn - who becomes the Antichrist - who becomes the beast.

short hand version:

little horn>Antichrist>beast.


upload_2021-4-7_6-18-10.png
 
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Timtofly

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Revelation 16:13-16 describes that great day of God as the battle of Armageddon. Would you say this battle is the 1,000 years of our time with the Lord? Or do you think there is more than one Day of the Lord?
The day of God at Armageddon is not the Day of the Lord. Armageddon is not even a sure event.
 
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Chi.C

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The daily sacrifice will begin again on day 220 of the 7 years (2520 days long).

We are not informed when the daily sacrifice will be stopped exactly, so as to know a specific day. We are told approximately in Daniel 9:27, that it will be stopped in the midst (middle part) of the week (70th week of years).
Dan 8:13-14 "Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed."
Day 220 should be the cessation of daily sacrifice not beginning. Since you say it begins at 220, that implies that the cessation is <2300 days? The cessation is to last 2300 days.

Not a zombie which are Hollywood film fictional monster characters and nothing to do with the bible.

It is the person's soul returned to his body, bringing him back to life as the world will witnesss it happening. Envision the person laying dead in a casket at his funeral suddenly sitting up back to life.

Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Although the person will be killed, he is never actually buried - Isaiah 14:

20 Thou shalt not be joined with them [other famous kings had big ornate tombs] in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people [an indication the person will be a Jew]: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.


So his soul does enter hell, for a brief time, but his body never is actually buried. Which it can be put together from Revelation 17:8 above, of the people of the world are wondered because they will see him killed, and come back to life - and never being buried, it can be concluded it will be in his open casket that he will sit up back alive as the cameras are on him.
I only mention zombie is because the sword was never removed Isa 14:19.
The only resurrection in is Lazarus (besides the Christ). Why would the most evil of things deserve resurrection? You mention some sort vindictive resurrection of the Divine. Why not let the dead beast lie? Then it is all over.
If it is to fulfill the prophecies, then why make the prophecies in the first place? They are not necessary to the endgame goal.
If it is to filter the jews to the resurrection (as all Christians are Raptured), then is the Apocalypse is written for the jews not the Christians?


The visions in Revelation are not in a straight through sequence chronologically speaking. The approach I take is event driven. In other words, read about the events and all of the information given - and then organize them into a critical path. Like the red line on the chart.

Critical path method is a approach used in project management. It is just a logical way of thinking, when timeframes are available. Which we have timeframes presented in bible prophecy.
_____________________________

The false prophet will be a grown man, probably in his 30's or 40's when he appears on the scene.

We have to look at "events". And match the "like" timeframes together, to be either in the first half or second half.

The 42 months in Revelation 11:2 match the 42 months in Revelation 13:5 which the beast rules until Jesus returns to cast the beast into the lake of fire. So the 42 months are in the second half.

Before the person becomes the beast, the two witnesses will be testifying about Jesus to the Jews, for the majority of their 1260 days, and that the Jews' so called messiah the Antichrist is a deceiver.

At the end of the 1260 days, the Antichrist person will have transformed into the beast, having betrayed the Jews. As the beast, he kills the two witnesses and then rules the remaining 42 months unhampered by them, as they will be gone from the earth. That's how we know the 1260 days of the two witnesses are in the first half.

I understand. I am 72 years old, and it would not be unreasonable that by experience I have probably been exposed to more information. One of the things that I have experienced that most Christians have not, that has benefited me in understanding the end time prophecies, is that I have argued with and discussed with the Jews at their sites, learning what they believe. Over 10,000 posts. It is a difficult task in communicating with them that most Christians do not want to deal with understandably.

My career background (long time ago, 20 years back) is project engineering which required critical path method of charting based on events that must take place in the course of getting the project accomplished. So charts are kinda of a natural thing for me.

Understanding of the end times overview is not nearly so difficult if a person grasps that the arch villain of the end times goes through three basic stages on his way to his destruction.

little horn - who becomes the Antichrist - who becomes the beast.

short hand version:

little horn>Antichrist>beast.
Isn't critical path analysis lists the tasks to meet a goal in a given time? This then permits the appopriate resources to be allocated? So the tasks are prophecies and the goal is endtimes and the given time 7 years. The appopriate resource are inferred Divine interventions which are not Scriptural to fill gaps and conflicts. The Scriptures need added data using this method.

I am an engineer myself. I do analysis. Calculations are based on accepted references and if the calculation indicates an acceptable design, it is deemed proven. Calculations are sums of verses and their meaning, the references are the Scriptures (for the calculation and acceptability) , history, sciences ... (for the acceptability), the design is the prophetic interpretation. No added data is required.

The woman and child who fled to the wilderness for 1260 days (Rev 12:6). Who are they? Is the 1260 days of Rev 12:6 concurrent with the 7 years.

The false prophet is a beast from the earth with horns of the lamb. Is the false prophet Christian or Messianic or Jewish? The lamb horns are just horns?

The harlot of Babylon sits on the Beast (Rev 17:3). Who is she?
Rev 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
Why is a city sitting on the beast?
 
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Douggg

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Day 220 should be the cessation of daily sacrifice not beginning. Since you say it begins at 220, that implies that the cessation is <2300 days? The cessation is to last 2300 days.
The ceasing of the daily sacrifice is less than 2300 days because the stopping of the daily sacrifice is in the middle of the 7 years from Daniel 9:27

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

That nails down the ceasing of the daily sacrifice, somewhere in the middle of the 7 years. Not near the very beginning (which day 220 is).

In Daniel 8:12-14, it does not say the beginning of the daily sacrifice, agreed; but it must be concluded that since the daily sacrifice will be stopped - it has to be going on at the time.

The 2300 days end pertains to when the temple will be cleansed of those things that will have made it desolate at that time. Which will be the removal of the false prophet, the beast, the statue image of the beast (incarnated by Satan) - removed by Jesus at his return.

Daniel 8:14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

  • daily sacrifice going on
  • in the middle part of the 7 years (stopped)
  • because of the transgression desolation
  • temple made desolate until Jesus returns

I only mention zombie is because the sword was never removed Isa 14:19.
The only resurrection in is Lazarus (besides the Christ). Why would the most evil of things deserve resurrection? You mention some sort vindictive resurrection of the Divine. Why not let the dead beast lie? Then it is all over.
If it is to fulfill the prophecies, then why make the prophecies in the first place? They are not necessary to the endgame goal.
If it is to filter the jews to the resurrection (as all Christians are Raptured), then is the Apocalypse is written for the jews not the Christians?
Being cast into the lake of fire is the final death. Them in hell, the place of the dead is actually a holding place. Hell itself, the place, will be cast into the lake of fire, in Revelation 20:13-14.

God has disdain for the person because the person sides with Satan, but also the person projected himself as the messiah the King of Israel, son of David that God promised Israel.

It is not just the second death (lake of fire) destruction of the little horn>Antichrist>beast person that God brings the person back to life - but God's overall plan to end Satan's time and his mystical kingdom of Babylon the great.

I am an engineer myself. I do analysis. Calculations are based on accepted references and if the calculation indicates an acceptable design, it is deemed proven. Calculations are sums of verses and their meaning, the references are the Scriptures (for the calculation and acceptability) , history, sciences ... (for the acceptability), the design is the prophetic interpretation. No added data is required.
We are not doing a design, but a timeline. If you want to use a engineering design analogy though, regarding bible prophecy, engineering design deals with a list of "knowns", whereas bible prophecy deals with much unknown. So the correlation breaks down in that regards.

For example, no one knows the name of the beast at the present. We have information that the number of his name is 666. And that there will be a mark associated with his name. But neither of those are known yet.... to say that the beast' name is "fill in the blank" and the mark is "fill in the blank"

If you want to correlate bible prophecy with engineering design, as an approach, focus on the "events" part of bible prophecy. Treat those as the "knowns", and you will do well.

The woman and child who fled to the wilderness for 1260 days (Rev 12:6). Who are they? Is the 1260 days of Rev 12:6 concurrent with the 7 years.
The woman is Israel. The child is Jesus. The first five verses in Revelation give the historic perspective to identify the woman in the end times remainder of the chapter as Israel.

The 1260 days are concurrent with the 7 years.

he false prophet is a beast from the earth with horns of the lamb. Is the false prophet Christian or Messianic or Jewish? The lamb horns are just horns?

The false prophet will be a Jew, claiming to be Elijah the prophet. He will be able to do seemingly miracles, but they will be lying miracles coming from Satan.

If there is some significance of the two horns being other than horns - I don't know what it is.

The harlot of Babylon sits on the Beast (Rev 17:3). Who is she?
Rev 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
Why is a city sitting on the beast?
harlot of Babylon is kinda of an aftermarket phrase. There is a harlot that sits on the beast, drunk on the blood of the martyers of Jesus. She has on her head the inscription of Babylon the great - as the mother of harlots and abomination upon the earth.

The harlot herself is not Babylon the great, but has been influenced by Babylon the great, to have martyred Christians. The harlot is the hierarchy (not ordinary members of the RCC) of the RCC, who killed and tortured so many innocent's during the middle ages. And has had relations with the kings of the earth, especially them in Europe. And still have influence around the world with many.

The Vatican is going to be burnt to the ground. For in spite of all its faults, it does profess that Jesus is God - which will run afoul with the beast being worshiped as God, and the beast cursing them in heaven and Jesus.

Different from the harlot, Babylon the great - is the mystical kingdom of Satan and his third of the angels, not a physical kingdom, that has trafficked in violence ever since Satan and his third of the angels rebelled.

Why is a city sitting on the beast?

The harlot herself is not "Babylon the great". The inscription on her head is a tag for Satan and his third of his angels kingdom, because of its nature is called Babylon the great. Which Satan and his angels have had influence on the hierarchy of the RCC.

So no city is sitting on the beast.

The harlot, the seven heads, the ten horns are associated with Rome though in different capacities.
 
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Timtofly

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then is the Apocalypse is written for the jews not the Christians?
Yes. Daniel was writing about Israel among many nations to come.

Daniel is part of the church, but that point is never pointed out that I have heard. Daniel is not written to OT saints. Daniel is more an autobiography than a prophecy to his people any ways. Judaism or those responsible for the Hebrew Canon argue about Daniel even being a legitimate prophet, due to him being in captivity, and not even in the Promised Land. Although Abraham's inheritance includes all the land west of the Euphrates per Genesis 15:18.

It is also interesting that the Garden of Eden covered most of that same area. Part of Revelation is to the church. The judgments are not. God's promise to Abraham will happen for 1000 years, prior to the church coming down and reclaiming the original Garden of Eden's prime location.

The caveat is that the North Pole is the actual center. There is going to be some major shake up of land at the Second Coming. David in the Psalms mentions the sides of the North and Mount Zion. I don't think that is currently literally in modern Israel.

David is part of the church, but very much still a part of Israel. Many overlook God's Covenants with Abraham and David, and miss out on why there is a coming Millennium before the New Jerusalem is introduced in the NHNE. The Jews go through this end time tribulation. The church does not. Even if Satan gets 42 months some will be beheaded and still end up living in the Millennium per Revelation 20:4. There are some who are not part of the church, Israel, nor chosen by God, who still refuse to worship Satan, but chose death instead.
 
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Chi.C

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The ceasing of the daily sacrifice is less than 2300 days because the stopping of the daily sacrifice is in the middle of the 7 years from Daniel 9:27

God has disdain for the person because the person sides with Satan, but also the person projected himself as the messiah the King of Israel, son of David that God promised Israel.

The woman is Israel. The child is Jesus. The first five verses in Revelation give the historic perspective to identify the woman in the end times remainder of the chapter as Israel.
The 1260 days are concurrent with the 7 years.

The false prophet will be a Jew, claiming to be Elijah the prophet. He will be able to do seemingly miracles, but they will be lying miracles coming from Satan.

harlot of Babylon is kinda of an aftermarket phrase. There is a harlot that sits on the beast, drunk on the blood of the martyers of Jesus. She has on her head the inscription of Babylon the great - as the mother of harlots and abomination upon the earth.
The harlot herself is not Babylon the great, but has been influenced by Babylon the great, to have martyred Christians. The harlot is the hierarchy (not ordinary members of the RCC) of the RCC, who killed and tortured so many innocent's during the middle ages. And has had relations with the kings of the earth, especially them in Europe. And still have influence around the world with many.
Different from the harlot, Babylon the great - is the mystical kingdom of Satan and his third of the angels, not a physical kingdom, that has trafficked in violence ever since Satan and his third of the angels rebelled.
The harlot herself is not "Babylon the great". The inscription on her head is a tag for Satan and his third of his angels kingdom, because of its nature is called Babylon the great. Which Satan and his angels have had influence on the hierarchy of the RCC.
So no city is sitting on the beast.
I think the critical path analysis is inappropriate in that you are letting your interpretation modify your data. By enforcing your goals (big A Antichrist, 7 year time frame, etc ...), you have modified the data (Scriptures and prophecies). You invoke magical circumstances to realign the disparate verses you have used as data. The Scripture provides many corrective measures to test. Here are two,

Proverbs 30:5-6 "Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar."

Rev 22:18-19
"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."

Here are some things said which generate more questions than answers.
The two witnesses are not taken by the rapture, because their purpose is to be here testifying to the Jews, Israel, because the Jews (non-Christians) will not be taken in the rapture - and will end up going through the great tribulation. #102

That one head is king 7 of the Roman Empire, the one yet to come in Revelation 17:10. He will be killed, and comes back to life as the beast person, king 8. #102

The false prophet will be a grown man, probably in his 30's or 40's when he appears on the scene. #111

In Daniel 8:12-14, it does not say the beginning of the daily sacrifice, agreed; but it must be concluded that since the daily sacrifice will be stopped - it has to be going on at the time. #114

God has disdain for the person because the person sides with Satan, but also the person projected himself as the messiah the King of Israel, son of David that God promised Israel.
It is not just the second death (lake of fire) destruction of the little horn>Antichrist>beast person that God brings the person back to life - but God's overall plan to end Satan's time and his mystical kingdom of Babylon the great. #114

The woman is Israel. The child is Jesus. The first five verses in Revelation give the historic perspective to identify the woman in the end times remainder of the chapter as Israel.
The 1260 days are concurrent with the 7 years. #114

Your collection of prophetic verses are indeed thorough and vast. But you should drop the critical path methodology as it has and will lead you astray.
Good luck in your future endeavours.
 
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grafted branch

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Your collection of prophetic verses are indeed thorough and vast. But you should drop the critical path methodology as it has and will lead you astray.
Good luck in your future endeavours.
I completely agree with you about the critical path methodology. I personally think every end time scenario, when carefully examined, contains areas that are impossible to support without using speculation. I tend to lean toward the preterits view but I try to not let that detract from how any particular set of verses should be interpreted.
 
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TedT

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I have not studied any of the manuscripts that were used for translating. If someone here has any insight on what’s going on with the word “en” I would appreciate a comment on it.
Just another example of writing from eisegesis to interpret the word in the way that suits their own take on the doctrine in question.
 
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Douggg

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I think the critical path analysis is inappropriate in that you are letting your interpretation modify your data. By enforcing your goals (big A Antichrist, 7 year time frame, etc ...), you have modified the data (Scriptures and prophecies). You invoke magical circumstances to realign the disparate verses you have used as data. The Scripture provides many corrective measures to test. Here are two,

Proverbs 30:5-6 "Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar."

Rev 22:18-19
"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."

Here are some things said which generate more questions than answers.
The two witnesses are not taken by the rapture, because their purpose is to be here testifying to the Jews, Israel, because the Jews (non-Christians) will not be taken in the rapture - and will end up going through the great tribulation. #102

That one head is king 7 of the Roman Empire, the one yet to come in Revelation 17:10. He will be killed, and comes back to life as the beast person, king 8. #102

The false prophet will be a grown man, probably in his 30's or 40's when he appears on the scene. #111

In Daniel 8:12-14, it does not say the beginning of the daily sacrifice, agreed; but it must be concluded that since the daily sacrifice will be stopped - it has to be going on at the time. #114

God has disdain for the person because the person sides with Satan, but also the person projected himself as the messiah the King of Israel, son of David that God promised Israel.
It is not just the second death (lake of fire) destruction of the little horn>Antichrist>beast person that God brings the person back to life - but God's overall plan to end Satan's time and his mystical kingdom of Babylon the great. #114

The woman is Israel. The child is Jesus. The first five verses in Revelation give the historic perspective to identify the woman in the end times remainder of the chapter as Israel.
The 1260 days are concurrent with the 7 years. #114

Your collection of prophetic verses are indeed thorough and vast. But you should drop the critical path methodology as it has and will lead you astray.
Good luck in your future endeavours.
You missed the main point of a critical path. It is "event" driven. For example, the prince who shall come shall confirm the covenant with many for one week (7 years). That is an event.

The seventh angel sounding his trumpet - that is an event.

You are using the word"data", i think because that is particular to your engineering specialty. "data" can be anything. data is just another word for information. Good data is factual, bad data is erroneous. Satan, for example is an evil person. That is data. But it is not an event.

I am focusing on events to develop a critical path of events. That's how to develop the bible prophecy end times timeline chart.
 
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The EU is the Roman Empire of the end times. It is the kingdom of the beast, represented by the beast coming out of the sea. I have another pictorial (below) with the EU flag on it that represents the kingdom. Basically with 42 months left in the 7 years, the EU will have gained control of all the geographical area once held by the three historical kingdoms of Daniel 7's beasts. i.e the EU (and it's western allies of the United States and Canada) will be controlling all the oil.

While on my chart in post #29, the little horn>Antichrist>beast in the shades of brown is referring to the person.

In Revelation 13, the one head, which was mortally wounded but healed, is the person called the beast. I have pictorial I made of that beast below. I put the ten horns on that one head, because those horns (kings) are associated with the beast person.

The beast from the earth is the false prophet. The earth represents Israel. While the sea represents the nations.

The false prophet does miracles, one of which is making fire come down from heaven - like Elijah the prophet did. We are not told anything about the false prophet prior to the 42 months. But we have knowledge that the Jews are looking for Elijah to prepare the nation for the messianic era. Also the Jews believe that the messiah will be anointed by a known prophet.

So putting that information together, it seems that the false prophet early on before the 7 year 70th week begins, when he emerges will claim to be Elijah and will anoint the little horn person coming into the middle east and Israel (on the premise of securing peace in the region), with his EU army in the aftermath of Gog/Magog, will anoint the person the King of Israel.

Anointed as the King of Israel, that's what actually makes the little horn>Antichrist>beast person the Antichrist. And the Jews, and the world, will think it has entered the messianic age, saying peace and safety.
The time/times/half time is not 1260 years. It is actually not "exactly" 1260 days either.
What prevails is the Word of GOD. GOD is in control of history, nothing random happens. The Word is GOD.
The messages you come posting in this Christian site, not only in this topic but in all topics, flow from the environment of falling away, i.e. from a devilish apostasy, exactly where the man of sin be revealed, the SON of perdition, a former Keruv - 2 Thessalonians 2. In fact he is the own Satan, the son of perdition in flesh and bones, understand?
Even him who will oppose and exalt himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

By the way, the son of perdition was born decades ago, and he must appear or manifest himself from now on, henceforward. Now see the differences: JESUS, the Son of GOD, -the Word made flesh- was born of a virgin, but the son of perdition perhaps was born of a prostitute, and he may be of the tribe of Dan as prophesied Jacob - Genesis 49:v.17 combined with Genesis 3:v.15. Furthermore, Dan is not part of the 12 tribes listed in Revelation 7. Check it out.

Satan in person, in flesh and bones, the son of perdition, the old Serpent, called the Devil and Satan, and now, in this time of Apocalypse,
his new name is red Dragon, even he, and only he, will be the main head of the Antichrist's kingdom, and he even as a false God will be worshiped by "all that dwell upon the earth, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. If any man have an ear, let him hear"-Revelation 13:v.8-9.

Again. GOD is in control of history, nothing random happens. The Word is GOD. What does the Word -GOD- say?

The Word -GOD- says that He will send them- i.e. to the people of Israel - STRONG DELUSION that they believe a lie -believe in Satan, the Dragon, the Beast of earth who has two horns like a lamb and he speaks as a Dragon-actually their own false messiah (earth is Israel), in fact an esoteric, and kabbalistic, and spiritist false messiah, that they all might be DAMNED who believed not the Truth - believed not in JESUS as is written in John 5:v.43 to 47 -, but had pleasure in unrighteousness -2 Thessalonians 2:v.11-12.

Now, or rather, from now on, one of the 7 heads of the ancient Beast of sea of around two thousand years age - the Papacy -, that has already elected 266 idolaters and blasphemers popes within the devilish structures Roman Catholic Church, - that is the satanic false Christianity - , yeah, from now on will be wounded to death, but its mortal wound will be healed by the esoteric false messiah of the Jews, because he, as an enthroned God in Israel, will give to the Pope his Power, AND HIS THRONE IN ISRAEL , and great Authority- Revelation 13:v.2 - . But the false messiah will exercise all the power of the FIRST Beast-the Papacy-before him - as the most powerful and also as the main RULER of the Antichrist's kingdom - , and he will cause the earth (EARTH IS ISRAEL) and them which dwell therein to worship the FIRST Beast -the enthroned Pope- , whose deadly wound was healed by the false messiah, the main RULER of Antichrist's Power.

So, there will given unto the Pope a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies;
and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. Revelation 13:v. 5
Verse 6 - And he will open his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heavenly places in Christ.
Verse 7 - And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

And the ruthless and satanic false messiah will deceive them that dwell on the earth -DWELL IN ISRAEL- by the means of those miracles which he has power to do in the sight of the Beast -i.e. in the sight of the Pope- ; saying to them that dwell on the earth that they make an image to the Beast - to the Pope - which has the wound by a Sword - the Sword is the WORD OF GOD - , and lives yet. And he - the spiritist, and esoteric, and kabbalistic false messiah, has power to give life unto the image of the Beast that both the image of the Beast speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the Beast be killed, and will cause all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads, that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the Beast, or the number of his name.

What prevails is the Word of GOD. GOD is in control of history, nothing random happens. The Word is GOD. ALL THE WORLD will be wondered after the FIRST Beast wounded mortally in one of his 7 heads, and they -
ALL THE WORLD - will worship the spiritist, and esoteric, and kabbalistic false messiah-the red Dragon- which gave power unto the Pope, and they will worship the Beast, saying, Who is like unto the Beast? who is able to make WAR with him?

Well, the War has already started by a sharp Sword-the Word of GOD. Hebrews 4: v.12-13.

THE TRUMPET SHALL SOUND

Get ready.

Matthew 24:v. 15 to 25
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand).

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23 Then if any man - Pastor, or Bishop, or Evangelist, or Missionary, among others- shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs e it not.and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.
 
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