Is the Seventh Day Adventist Church orthodox

BobRyan

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But as already noted - moral law defines what sin is even in the NT 1 John 3:4 not just in the OT - and even gentiles were held accountable to it.

But specifically - Ephh 6:1-2 shows that the "unit of TEN" continues in the NT.

We agree the commandment to honor father and mother is a moral command.

And we apparently agree it is the firs commandment in the unit of TEN with a promise.

as to that text showing the "unit of ten" is in the NT, that would be a poor choice to show that. It lists one.
It references the unit itself when it says "first with promise" because that implies more than one commandment in the unit and it also implies a specific order within that unit. So it is "the unit" that is brought by saying "first with a promise" rather than "there is an OT command and it has a promise with it" - which would make no reference at all to ordering within a unit where more than one commandment is in that unit.

He quotes from the law. We both agree this was from the 10.

Nor am I disputing the clear prominence given to the ten. They were spoken directly by God. They were inscribed with His finger.

True.

And they were the "words" of the covenant as well.

And the moral law of the Old Covenant is the same as the moral law of the New Covenant such that even Jeremiah and his readers knew of it - and it was written on the heart OT as well as NT.

But there is no second in the ten. So he is talking about the whole law.

The whole moral law? very possibly.
 
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BobRyan

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Careful Bob, you are getting very close to what some say about Hebrews 4 in regards to the Sabbath.

Have to run for now, but will continue when I can.

Col 2 points to shadow Sabbaths -- shadows because they were given in animal sacrifices and offerings pointing forward to the work of the Messiah as the lamb of God. Heb 10:4-12 points out all the animal sacrifices and offerings ended at the cross.

Is 66:23 points out that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth - "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship". There is nothing like that (all eternity after the cross in the new Earth) for "shall all mankind come before Me to offer animal sacrifices at Passover" .

Sabbath is first given in Gen 2:1-3 where it was "made holy" as also Ex 20:11 agrees. No animal sacrifices. And in the 4th commandment - no animal sacrifices.

This is another reason why even the non-Bible-Sabbath keeping scholarship agrees that all TEN of the TEN Commandments remain in the moral law of God and written on the heart - for all eternity.
 
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BobRyan

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Of course. And he changed the promise to fit a context outside the promised land.

Which it already had in the OT as it was for all nations... specifically singling out gentiles to keep it in the OT.

Is 56:6-7
6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—
7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.


But it does occur to the readers following along that by emphasizing the "unit of the ten" you are also doing something else. You are trying to argue for the Sabbath on the basis not that it is inherently moral law, but that it is part of the unit of ten.

Indeed I argue that the Ten are "included" in the moral law of God - all ten. The non-Bible-Sabbath keeping scholarship outside the SDA church in almost all major Christian denominations also affirm this same Bible detail about that moral law of God.

And that includes

The Baptist Confession of Faith section 19,
the Westminster Confession of Faith section 19,
D.L. Moody -- Ten Commandments Sermon,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism

Once I show that the Sabbath is part of the Ten then the fact that the TEN are already agreed to as being included in the moral law of God - by scholarship in almost all Christian denominations it is "game over" on that one detail.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Yes, you missed something. I stated I was not posting it to test Ellen White, per se. And I never stated that she does not at times agree with others, or she is the only reason to take that position on Matthew 13. In fact, I have mentioned several times she integrates other people's material. Again, Luke used sources as well, so that in itself is not disqualifying regarding inspiration.

The point of our exercise was to see how you relate to the Scriptures. And the point was to see how you relate to Ellen White's comments.

The point of the exercise is not that you need Ellen White to get a particular position. She rarely took a novel position.

The point is whether Adventists, once they are aware of her position, because they consider her inspired, will begin to fall in line. The whole point was looking at how Adventists treat her writings in connection with Scripture. If she is inspired, how do you avoid her being an inspired commentary. Yet she claims she should not be used that way....except then she also says some things that could go the other way.

Just wondering why you have provided a quote from me I have never written in this post you are quoting from?
LoveGodsWord said: You are the one that brought up Matt 13 and Ellen White - did I miss something ?
I never wrote this.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I answered it by largely agreeing. Not all physical descendants of Israel are Israel. That was always true. There was a faithful remnant. Ephesians says He has made one man of the two, reconciling both in Christ. Gentiles and Israelites are both now one. So we agree.

However, having said that, it doesn't mean females stop being female. For instance, you indicated you were not a female, and wouldn't have to worry about uncleanness for pregnancy--agreed.

But it means that all are now under Christ in the new covenant as one.

And we see in Acts 15 that the church accepted the gentiles--but did not require them to be circumcised and keep the law of Moses.

That does not mean they are not under moral law. We see many moral commandments spelled out for gentile Christians.

Abraham is the father of all the faithful, circumcised or otherwise, and all are heirs to the promise.

Ok, thank you.

I guess if we are in agreement as to who Gods' ISRAEL is in the new covenant, that they are all those who believe and follow God's Word we can talk about circumcision which is a "shadow law" or a physical sign of the old covenant of that promised in the new covenant like ISRAEL in the flesh was a sign of Gods' true ISRAEL born to walk in the Spirit.

THE SHADOW LAW OF CIRCUMCISION

According to the scriptures circumcision is a physical sign was a "shadow law" fulfilled in the body of Christ (Colossians 2:17) and a sign of righteousness by faith in Gods' Word *Romans 4:9-11 which is an everlasting covenant *Genesis 17:13 given to God's people that is fulfilled and continued to that which it pointed to under the new covenant (righteousness by faith). According to the new covenant scriptures the physical sign of circumcision does not mean we are following God because circumcision represents a change of heart in the Spirit and not in the letter to love God and keep His commandments in fulfillment of God's new covenant promise (see Romans 2:28-29; Hebrews 8:10-12; Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27). The physical sign of circumcision of the old covenant therefore being a "shadow law" of things to come representing a new heart by faith.

THE SHADOW LAWS FORETOLD IN THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES?

Deuteronomy 10:16 [16] CIRCUMCISE THEREFORE THE FORESKIN OF YOUR HEART, and be no more stiff-necked.

Deuteronomy 30:6 [6] And the LORD your God will CIRCUMCISE YOUR HEART AND THE HEART OF YOUR DECENDENCE, TO LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART AND WITH YOU’RE YOUR SOUL, THAT YOU MAY LIVE.

Jeremiah 4:4 [4] CIRCUMCISE YOURSELF TO THE LORD, AND TAKE AWAY THE FORESKINS OF YOUR HEART, you men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.

Note: new covenant fulfillment of the shadows of the ceremonial ordinance of circumcision pointing the circumcision of the heart through faith in Christ…

Romans 2:25-29 [25] For circumcision verily profits, if you keep the law: but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision. [26], Therefore if the uncircumcision keeps the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? [27], And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfils the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law? [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW, WHO IS ONE; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OF THE OUTWARD FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; AND CIRCUMCISION IS THAT OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT AND NOT IN THE LETTER; WHOSE PRAISE IS NOT OF MEN BUT OF GOD.

This is the operation of GOD in the NEW COVENANT…

Hebrews 8:10 [10], For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS [NOTE: THE SHADOW OF CIRCUMCISION]: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people (from Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27 see also Hebrews 10:16-18)

The shadow law of "circumcision" is now fulfilled and continued in God's new covenant promise to write his law of love in our hearts so that we can be obedient to His Word as we walk in God's Spirit.

1 Corinthians 7:19 [19] CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

..................

CONCLUSION: 1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God. (through faith - Romans 3:31; 1 John 5:2-4; righteousness by faith)

Hope this is helpful.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Careful Bob, you are getting very close to what some say about Hebrews 4 in regards to the Sabbath. Have to run for now, but will continue when I can.

Sorry I have not been reading your conversation with Bob but noticed this. What does this mean?
 
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BobRyan

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Just wondering why you have provided a quote from me I have never written in this post you are quoting from?

I never wrote this.

You are correct - I wrote that. But when I click the link for the quote it goes to one of your own posts - even though that post also does not have that quote in it.

I see this in your post


LoveGodsWord said: You are the one that brought up Matt 13 and Ellen White - did I miss something ?


I never wrote this.

- but if you click that inner arrow in the inner quote it goes to one of your own posts - which also does not have that quote in it.
 
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tall73

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You are correct - I wrote that. But when I click the link for the quote it goes to one of your own posts - even though that post also does not have that quote in it.

I see this in your post




- but if you click that inner arrow in the inner quote it goes to one of your own posts - which also does not have that quote in it.

Hm, that is strange. Yes that should have been to Bob. I am not sure how I managed to key it to the wrong post. I have edited it now. Sorry for the confusion. I will try to catch up at some point but having some busy days.
 
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tall73

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It has been a while but I now have time to start reviewing the texts regarding the Sabbath. Because the arguments for Sunday replacing Sabbath do not (in my opinion, people may present Scripture if they disagree) rest on Scriptural commands to rest on Sunday, but rather on a view that the church has authority from Christ to institute such a change, I will not be directly addressing that view here. I will continue to review arguments regarding the authority of the church separately.

With that in mind I will consider biblical texts to see whether they indicate sabbath observance. It will take a while to work through them.

I plan to present arguments from both sides for each text as I am reviewing the question. Arguing only one side might lead to more a of a tendency to dig in on one position or another.

So to start with I am going to review texts related to the old covenant, and the nature of the promises, the role of the ten commandments, etc. Then eventually we can work through all of the texts for consideration in the new and old testament. I imagine that will take some time. (While I am not starting in Genesis, I will be looking at it down the road. I will also look at Exodus 16 at a later point).

So the first text I would like to look at is Exodus 19:

Exo 19:3 while Moses went up to God. The LORD called to him out of the mountain, saying, “Thus you shall say to the house of Jacob, and tell the people of Israel:
Exo 19:4 ‘You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles' wings and brought you to myself.
Exo 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey my voice and keep my covenant, you shall be my treasured possession among all peoples, for all the earth is mine;
Exo 19:6 and you shall be to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words that you shall speak to the people of Israel.”
Exo 19:7 So Moses came and called the elders of the people and set before them all these words that the LORD had commanded him.
Exo 19:8 All the people answered together and said, “All that the LORD has spoken we will do.” And Moses reported the words of the people to the LORD.


The covenant agreement involved promises in which the people agreed to do all the Lord commanded, and the Lord promised to make them a holy nation, a kingdom of priests.


These promises are reiterated in the new covenant, even to gentile believers in I Peter.

1Pe 2:9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.
1Pe 2:10 Once you were not a people, but now you are God's people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

I don't see that either view would disagree with this background material.

The Sabbath commandment is given along with the rest of the ten, spoken by God from the mountain:

Exo 20:1 And God spoke all these words, saying,
Exo 20:2 “I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.
Exo 20:3 “You shall have no other gods before me.
Exo 20:4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
Exo 20:5 You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me,
Exo 20:6 but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.
Exo 20:7 “You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain.
Exo 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days you shall labor, and do all your work,
Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates.
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
Exo 20:12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land that the LORD your God is giving you.
Exo 20:13 “You shall not murder.
Exo 20:14 “You shall not commit adultery.
Exo 20:15 “You shall not steal.
Exo 20:16 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
Exo 20:17 “You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his male servant, or his female servant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor's.”
Exo 20:18 Now when all the people saw the thunder and the flashes of lightning and the sound of the trumpet and the mountain smoking, the people were afraid and trembled, and they stood far off
Exo 20:19 and said to Moses, “You speak to us, and we will listen; but do not let God speak to us, lest we die.”

The ten were inscribed on tablets of stone:

Exo 24:12 The LORD said to Moses, “Come up to me on the mountain and wait there, that I may give you the tablets of stone, with the law and the commandment, which I have written for their instruction.”

Exo 31:18 And he gave to Moses, when he had finished speaking with him on Mount Sinai, the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.

Exo_32:15 Then Moses turned and went down from the mountain with the two tablets of the testimony in his hand, tablets that were written on both sides; on the front and on the back they were written.
Exo 32:16 The tablets were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God, engraved on the tablets.

Exo 32:19 And as soon as he came near the camp and saw the calf and the dancing, Moses' anger burned hot, and he threw the tablets out of his hands and broke them at the foot of the mountain.

Exo 34:1 The LORD said to Moses, “Cut for yourself two tablets of stone like the first, and I will write on the tablets the words that were on the first tablets, which you broke.
Exo 34:2 Be ready by the morning, and come up in the morning to Mount Sinai, and present yourself there to me on the top of the mountain.
Exo 34:3 No one shall come up with you, and let no one be seen throughout all the mountain. Let no flocks or herds graze opposite that mountain.”
Exo 34:4 So Moses cut two tablets of stone like the first. And he rose early in the morning and went up on Mount Sinai, as the LORD had commanded him, and took in his hand two tablets of stone.

Exo 34:28 So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights. He neither ate bread nor drank water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

Deu 5:22 “These words the LORD spoke to all your assembly at the mountain out of the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and he added no more. And he wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

Deu 9:9 When I went up the mountain to receive the tablets of stone, the tablets of the covenant that the LORD made with you, I remained on the mountain forty days and forty nights. I neither ate bread nor drank water.
Deu 9:10 And the LORD gave me the two tablets of stone written with the finger of God, and on them were all the words that the LORD had spoken with you on the mountain out of the midst of the fire on the day of the assembly.
Deu 9:11 And at the end of forty days and forty nights the LORD gave me the two tablets of stone, the tablets of the covenant.



The ten commandments were the words of the covenant, and the tablets the tablets of the covenant.

We know from near-eastern covenants of the time that God was doing something that would be familiar. There are parallels to suzerainty covenants. Such a covenant was usually made between two nations, when a stronger kingdom conquered another. The Suzerain was the powerful king and benefactor (sometimes conqueror) the other king was his vassal.

The stronger king would impose the treaty upon the vassal king in order to make plain his requirements and how they were to serve him. He would make promises to them in return for their loyalty.

Now of course in this case the great King is God and the vassal nation are His people. He delivered them from Egypt, and on this basis, and on the basis of creation, He demonstrates that He is their Sovereign.

God describes His relationship to Israel in a familiar way, that includes a number of parallels to covenants of that time. Here is a file that illustrates the key components of a suzerainty treaty in brief form. This is not my work. I just found it to be the simplest I could find online.

http://www.bethel.edu/~dhoward/classes/Ot101-111/SuzeraintyTreaty-Handout.pdf

Now if we look at the various components it outlines how the Sinai covenant is similar.

1. Preamble: Identifies author of the covenant.

Exo 20:2 "I am the LORD your God,

2. Historical Prologue: Mentions past relationship between the two parties; past benefactions by suzerain form the basis for the vassal's gratitude and future obedience.

Exo 19:3 while Moses went up to God. The LORD called to him out of the mountain, saying, "Thus you shall say to the house of Jacob, and tell the people of Israel:
Exo 19:4 You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles' wings and brought you to myself.

Ex. 20:2 Who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.


3. Stipulations: The obligations laid upon the vassal by the sovereign.

The ten commandments, and then also the book of the law, including all the laws of the nation, laws regarding worship, laws of a moral nature, laws instituting care for the poor, etc.

All of these were required of Israel under the covenant, and part of their agreement to do all the Lord commanded.

4. a. Deposition: A copy of the covenant is deposited in the vassal's sanctuary.

In the normal arrangement each party would place a copy of the covenant in the sanctuary of their god's temple. In this case one party IS God and the others worship at His temple. Therefore the covenant document is placed in stone, and placed in the temple of God, inside the ark. Many scholars now think the whole text was written on each, as a copy for God and a copy for the people, but this is not an essential element here and is not spelled out in the biblical text. But it may explain the emphasis on the two tablets.

b. Public Reading: The covenant terms are periodically read to the people.

This occurred during the invasion into Canaan, and later during the time of the restoration from exile, etc.

5. Witnesses: A list of gods invoked to witness the covenant.

God, being the only true God, calls upon the creation in Deut.:

Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live,

6. Curses invoked on the vassal if he breaks the covenant, and blessings invoked on the vassal if he keeps the covenant.

Leviticus 26 etc. spells these out in detail.




 
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BobRyan

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It has been a while but I now have time to start reviewing the texts regarding the Sabbath. Because the arguments for Sunday replacing Sabbath do not (in my opinion, people may present Scripture if they disagree) rest on Scriptural commands to rest on Sunday, but rather on a view that the church has authority from Christ to institute such a change,

I agree that the scripture support for a Bible command to do it is not there.

I agree that most Bible scholars in main line Christian groups argue that it is instead a long church tradition regarding the authority to edit/change the Sabbath

The Adventist position is that as we find in Mark 7:6-13 - God does not delegate any authority to His church to edit/downgrade His word - specifically one of His Commandments. This is essentially where the real substance of the difference exist when it comes to Bible scholarship.

BUT when it comes to "popular posting" on the topic - you will that the Sabbath-and-the-Law forum here has 90% posting arguing that either the Ten Commandments are deleted or that one vanished... most of the posts there do not endorse the idea that it is valid to "edit" any of the commandments to re-point it or any other such thing.
 
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BobRyan

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So to start with I am going to review texts related to the old covenant, and the nature of the promises, the role of the ten commandments, etc. Then eventually we can work through all of the texts for consideration in the new and old testament. I imagine that will take some time. (While I am not starting in Genesis, I will be looking at it down the road. I will also look at Exodus 16 at a later point).

It is the Adventist view that both the Old Covenant and New Covenant - (where the term Old Covenant is limited to "nation covenant at Sinai", and is not in its broader definition of Adam and Eve having the "obey and live" contract). - both covenants contain the same moral law of God as we find in the TEN Commandments. That same moral law of God applied to mankind in Eden, and also after the fall and also is what is written on the heart under Jeremiah's "New Covenant" statement Jer 31:31-34 which of course - is God's. And is unchanged in Heb 8:6-12

So while the nation covenant at Sinai also included things like civil and ceremonial laws - there was also the moral law of God. So it was a sin to "take God's name in vain" all through the OT just as it still is today (for example).

And interestingly - D.L. Moody, The Baptist Confession of Faith sectn 19, The Westminster Confession of Faith, the Catholic document Dies Domini, and the CCC and many other non-SDA sources also agree to this much.
 
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We know from near-eastern covenants of the time that God was doing something that would be familiar. There are parallels to suzerainty covenants. Such a covenant was usually made between two nations, when a stronger kingdom conquered another. The Suzerain was the powerful king and benefactor (sometimes conqueror) the other king was his vassal.

The stronger king would impose the treaty upon the vassal king in order to make plain his requirements and how they were to serve him. He would make promises to them in return for their loyalty.

Now of course in this case the great King is God and the vassal nation are His people. He delivered them from Egypt, and on this basis, and on the basis of creation, He demonstrates that He is their Sovereign.

God describes His relationship to Israel in a familiar way, that includes a number of parallels to covenants of that time. Here is a file that illustrates the key components of a suzerainty treaty in brief form. This is not my work. I just found it to be the simplest I could find online.

http://www.bethel.edu/~dhoward/classes/Ot101-111/SuzeraintyTreaty-Handout.pdf

Now if we look at the various components it outlines how the Sinai covenant is similar.

1. Preamble: Identifies author of the covenant.

Exo 20:2 "I am the LORD your God,

2. Historical Prologue: Mentions past relationship between the two parties; past benefactions by suzerain form the basis for the vassal's gratitude and future obedience.

Exo 19:3 while Moses went up to God. The LORD called to him out of the mountain, saying, "Thus you shall say to the house of Jacob, and tell the people of Israel:
Exo 19:4 You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles' wings and brought you to myself.

Ex. 20:2 Who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.


3. Stipulations: The obligations laid upon the vassal by the sovereign.

The ten commandments, and then also the book of the law, including all the laws of the nation, laws regarding worship, laws of a moral nature, laws instituting care for the poor, etc.

All of these were required of Israel under the covenant, and part of their agreement to do all the Lord commanded.

4. a. Deposition: A copy of the covenant is deposited in the vassal's sanctuary.

In the normal arrangement each party would place a copy of the covenant in the sanctuary of their god's temple. In this case one party IS God and the others worship at His temple. Therefore the covenant document is placed in stone, and placed in the temple of God, inside the ark. Many scholars now think the whole text was written on each, as a copy for God and a copy for the people, but this is not an essential element here and is not spelled out in the biblical text. But it may explain the emphasis on the two tablets.

b. Public Reading: The covenant terms are periodically read to the people.

This occurred during the invasion into Canaan, and later during the time of the restoration from exile, etc.

5. Witnesses: A list of gods invoked to witness the covenant.

God, being the only true God, calls upon the creation in Deut.:

Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live,

6. Curses invoked on the vassal if he breaks the covenant, and blessings invoked on the vassal if he keeps the covenant.

Leviticus 26 etc. spells these out in detail.

I would add the detail that the Ex 19-20 nation covenant was not of the form made in Eden where one single sin would doom the entire group. So for example - it is more than a little likely that someone in that vast congregation of Israel "Coveted" that day or the next day or the next -- at the giving of the TEN. But that did not negate the nation-covenant.

Others more than likely "lied" or dishonored a parent over those first few days - But that did not negate the nation-covenant. So while it was sin... a lot of individual sin in the camp the whole time - it was not national apostasy - it was not the entire nation turning against God.

It took time to get the nation behind the idea that Moses had been absent for too long and they needed some kind of substitute religious practice to hold them over.

In terms of salvation it was always about individual sin vs salvation. But with the nation-covenant it was a matter of the entire nation making a choice through its leaders.

==================

This is such a key point - I may start it as its own thread "How would an Adventist Define Old vs New Covenant".
Today at 6:06 PM #1



1. New Covenant (an individual Covenant) – Jer 31:31-34, Heb 8:6-12
  • The (One Gospel Gal 1:6-9) of all ages ... preached to Abraham Gal 3:8
  • Made with Israel (the people of God)
  • Moral Law of God known to Jeremiah and his readers - written on heart and mind. New Birth, New Heart
  • Adoption into the family of God
  • Forgiveness of sins
  • “Sin IS transgression of the Law” even in the NT – 1 John 3:4
    • So then: Still a sin to take God’s name in vain (for example)
  • The moral law of God written on the heart “includes” the unit of TEN where “The first commandment with a promise” is “Honor your father and mother”
  • An individual in a given household may be under the New Covenant while another person in that same household is still under the old covenant.
2. Old Covenant (two forms)
a. As Nation Covenant at Sinai (Only a “type” of the covenant with all mankind “obey and Live”)
  • The newly formed Nation of Israel was to “Obey and Live”
  • Not made with individual , not broken by individual
    • Individuals at Sinai that dishonored parents or stole from a neighbor – did not break national covenant
    • Individuals at Sinai that broke the Sabbath – did not break national covenant though they were doomed as individuals
  • Contains the moral law of God that defines what sin is.
  • Includes the TEN spoken directly by God to Israel and written with His finger on stone.
  • Also included civil and ceremonial laws etc.
  • If the nation broke the Covenant they would no longer be God’s chosen people, but individuals in the nation (like Moses ) could still be saved.
b. As an Individual Covenant – with our first parents and mankind
  • Adam and Eve – “obey and live” – one sin and that would doom man.
  • Contains the moral law of God that defines what sin is (Rom 3:19-20, 1 John 3:4).
  • All mankind doomed to this very day under the “obey and live” rule for all have sinned. Rom 3:19-20,23
  • An individual in a given household may be under the New Covenant while another person in that same household is still under the old covenant.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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It has been a while but I now have time to start reviewing the texts regarding the Sabbath. Because the arguments for Sunday replacing Sabbath do not (in my opinion, people may present Scripture if they disagree) rest on Scriptural commands to rest on Sunday, but rather on a view that the church has authority from Christ to institute such a change, I will not be directly addressing that view here. I will continue to review arguments regarding the authority of the church separately.
Welcome back. This teaching that the Church has authority on earth to change anyone of God's 10 commandments is not biblical and of course stems from catholic teaching.

Jesus in His own words states that those who knowingly follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God are not worshiping God according to Matthew 15:3-9. According to Jesus I believe God has His people in every Church *John 10:16 that he is seeking to bring them to His Word. Jesus says in John 4:23-24 that the hour is coming and now is that God’s true worshipers will worship God in Spirit and in truth.

God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth. Therefore if God is calling us to return to His Word and Jesus says we are not worshiping God by following man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God, then His Word should be a warning to us and a light unto our path to teach us that any person that to teaching us to break the commandments of God in favor of Church traditions are liars and the truth is not in them according to the scriptures from John in 1 John 2:3-4.

I believe according to the scriptures, God is calling us all out from following man-made teachings and traditions to return back to the pure Word of God *John 10:26-27; Revelation 17:4. God’s sheep will hear His Voice (the Word) and follow him according to the scriptures. Those who do not hear and do not follow are not His Sheep (John 10:26-27).

To make an argument that the Church on earth has authority to change God's Word therefore makes the Church above Gods' Word in fulfillment of 2 Thessalonians 2:4.

So for me what it all comes down to is who do we believe and follow; God or man? According to the scriptures only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them (Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29) and it is the Word of God that God is calling His people back to so they can worship Him in Spirit and in truth *John 4:23-24; John 10:16; Revelation 18:4

Hope this is helpful.
 
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This teaching that the Church has authority on earth to change anyone of God's 10 commandments is not biblical and of course stems from catholic teaching.

Note, that was not my position.

I don't hold to Sunday sacredness. Those who do see it as a result of the authority of the church.

My point was that I will not address arguments regarding Sunday sacredness because I don't see any Scripture stating that. And they don't make that argument based on Scripture primarily anyway. So it would not derive from an investigation of the texts regarding the Sabbath, but in theory from texts regarding authority given to the church.

Instead I am going to look at whether Sabbath observance is still required. As to me that is the issue, and would involve looking at the texts regarding the Sabbath.

Since Albion and others are viewing I wanted to clarify I do not hold the idea of Sunday sacredness so that they don't expect any argument along those lines.
 
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Note, that was not my position.

I don't hold to Sunday sacredness. Those who do see it as a result of the authority of the church.

My point was that I will not address arguments regarding Sunday sacredness because I don't see any Scripture stating that. And they don't make that argument based on Scripture primarily anyway. So it would not derive from an investigation of the texts regarding the Sabbath, but in theory from texts regarding authority given to the church.

Instead I am going to look at whether Sabbath observance is still required. As to me that is the issue, and would involve looking at the texts regarding the Sabbath.

Since Albion and others are viewing I wanted to clarify I do not hold the idea of Sunday sacredness so that they don't expect any argument along those lines.

Arr no problem perhaps I read it rashly my apologies. Please go ahead and make a start.
 
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The first text which indicates humans being commanded to observe the Sabbath, or keeping a sabbath is Exodus 16.

Exodus 16:1 And they journeyed from Elim, and all the congregation of the children of Israel came to the Wilderness of Sin, which is between Elim and Sinai, on the fifteenth day of the second month after they departed from the land of Egypt. 2 Then the whole congregation of the children of Israel complained against Moses and Aaron in the wilderness. 3 And the children of Israel said to them, “Oh, that we had died by the hand of the Lord in the land of Egypt, when we sat by the pots of meat and when we ate bread to the full! For you have brought us out into this wilderness to kill this whole assembly with hunger.”

4 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you. And the people shall go out and gather a certain quota every day, that I may test them, whether they will walk in My law or not. 5 And it shall be on the sixth day that they shall prepare what they bring in, and it shall be twice as much as they gather daily.”

6 Then Moses and Aaron said to all the children of Israel, “At evening you shall know that the Lord has brought you out of the land of Egypt. 7 And in the morning you shall see the glory of the Lord; for He hears your complaints against the Lord. But what are we, that you complain against us?” 8 Also Moses said, “This shall be seen when the Lord gives you meat to eat in the evening, and in the morning bread to the full; for the Lord hears your complaints which you make against Him. And what are we? Your complaints are not against us but against the Lord.”

9 Then Moses spoke to Aaron, “Say to all the congregation of the children of Israel, ‘Come near before the Lord, for He has heard your complaints.’ ” 10 Now it came to pass, as Aaron spoke to the whole congregation of the children of Israel, that they looked toward the wilderness, and behold, the glory of the Lord appeared in the cloud.

11 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 12 “I have heard the complaints of the children of Israel. Speak to them, saying, ‘At twilight you shall eat meat, and in the morning you shall be filled with bread. And you shall know that I am the Lord your God.’ ”

13 So it was that quail came up at evening and covered the camp, and in the morning the dew lay all around the camp. 14 And when the layer of dew lifted, there, on the surface of the wilderness, was a small round substance, as fine as frost on the ground. 15 So when the children of Israel saw it, they said to one another, “What is it?” For they did not know what it was.

And Moses said to them, “This is the bread which the Lord has given you to eat. 16 This is the thing which the Lord has commanded: ‘Let every man gather it according to each one’s need, one omer for each person, according to the number of persons; let every man take for those who are in his tent.’ ”

17 Then the children of Israel did so and gathered, some more, some less. 18 So when they measured it by omers, he who gathered much had nothing left over, and he who gathered little had no lack. Every man had gathered according to each one’s need. 19 And Moses said, “Let no one leave any of it till morning.” 20 Notwithstanding they did not heed Moses. But some of them left part of it until morning, and it bred worms and stank. And Moses was angry with them. 21 So they gathered it every morning, every man according to his need. And when the sun became hot, it melted.

22 And so it was, on the sixth day, that they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for each one. And all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses. 23 Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord has said: ‘Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.’ ” 24 So they laid it up till morning, as Moses commanded; and it did not stink, nor were there any worms in it. 25 Then Moses said, “Eat that today, for today is a Sabbath to the Lord; today you will not find it in the field. 26 Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will be none.”

27 Now it happened that some of the people went out on the seventh day to gather, but they found none. 28 And the Lord said to Moses, “How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws? 29 See! For the Lord has given you the Sabbath; therefore He gives you on the sixth day bread for two days. Let every man remain in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.” 30 So the people rested on the seventh day.


31 And the house of Israel called its name Manna. And it was like white coriander seed, and the taste of it was like wafers made with honey.

32 Then Moses said, “This is the thing which the Lord has commanded: ‘Fill an omer with it, to be kept for your generations, that they may see the bread with which I fed you in the wilderness, when I brought you out of the land of Egypt.’ ” 33 And Moses said to Aaron, “Take a pot and put an omer of manna in it, and lay it up before the Lord, to be kept for your generations.” 34 As the Lord commanded Moses, so Aaron laid it up before the Testimony, to be kept. 35 And the children of Israel ate manna forty years, until they came to an inhabited land; they ate manna until they came to the border of the land of Canaan. 36 Now an omer is one-tenth of an ephah.

Initially a test is stated, to see whether they will keep God's law. It is indicating that they are to gather twice as much on the sixth day. So the initial thought is that the commandment is already in place.


However, in verse 22-26, Moses has to explain the reason for collecting twice as much, that it will be a sabbath day. This does not sound like they were already familiar with the sabbath day.

They do not listen and are warned, and then they listen. No death penalty was enforced in this instance, as was later done after the formal issuing of the commandment in the ten.

Some questions that come to mind:

a. Why did the people not seem to know the sabbath commandment?

b. Why is this the first text stating that people need to keep the sabbath?

c. Why do we see no other texts speaking of people observing the sabbath prior to this?

d. If the argument is that they were coming out of slavery and were ignorant of the command, why would the Lord allow them to break the commandment for a month and a half without telling them, if it is a moral law?

 
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The first text which indicates humans being commanded to observe the Sabbath, or keeping a sabbath is Exodus 16.
Thanks for sharing but this is not a new argument it is an old “argument in silence (Dressler?). It is an “argument of silence” and the premise is that because there is no scripture verse stating that no one kept the seventh day Sabbath prior to Exodus 16 therefore no one kept the seventh day Sabbath ever until Exodus 16. Yet this same “argument of silence” can be made not just for God’s 4th commandment but for everyone of Gods’ 10 commandments. So, what I would like to examine here, from the scriptures prior to Exodus 16 is, does the premise of this “argument in silence” mean that none of God’s people knew about or kept, not just God’s 4th commandment Sabbath but anyone of God’s 10 commandments or the laws for remission of sins and sin offerings prior to Exodus 16-20.

DID GOD’S PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT GOD’S LAWS PRIOR TO EXODUS 16 TO EXODUS 20?

Here let’s examine the scriptures to see if God’s people had any understanding of God’s laws prior to Exodus 16 to Exodus 20 and then we will come back to God’s 4th commandment. Let's start off and see if there are examples of God's law prior to Exodus.

Genesis 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. (the Hebrew word used for laws here is Torah).

FIRST TABLE:


[1] For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. *Genesis 3:5 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed [is] the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life; *Genesis 3:17 And I bowed down my head, and worshiped the LORD, and blessed the LORD God of my master Abraham, which had led me in the right way to take my master's brother's daughter unto his son. *Genesis 24:48 Then Jacob said unto his household, and to all that [were] with him, Put away the strange gods that [are] among you, and be clean, and change your garments: *Genesis 35:2 And let us arise, and go up to Bethel; and I will make there an altar unto God, who answered me in the day of my distress, and was with me in the way which I went. *Genesis 35:3 And they gave unto Jacob all the strange gods which [were] in their hand, and [all their] earrings which [were] in their ears; and Jacob hid them under the oak which [was] by Shechem. *Genesis 35:4

[2] Then Jacob said unto his household, and to all that [were] with him, Put away the strange gods that [are] among you, and be clean, and change your garments: *Genesis 35:2 And they gave unto Jacob all the strange gods which [were] in their hand, and [all their] earrings which [were] in their ears; and Jacob hid them under the oak which [was] by Shechem. *Genesis 35:4

[3] For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. *Genesis 3:6 And he said, Blessed [be] the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant. *Genesis 9:26 And he said, Blessed [be] the LORD God of my master Abraham, who hath not left destitute my master of his mercy and his truth: I [being] in the way, the LORD led me to the house of my master's brethren. *Genesis 24:27 And it was so, when the days of [their] feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings [according] to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually. *Job 1:5 Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die. *Job 2:9 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips. *Job 2:10 And Pharaoh said, Who [is] the LORD, that I should obey his voice to let Israel go? I know not the LORD, neither will I let Israel go. *Exodus 5:2

[4] And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. *Genesis 2:2 And God blessed the seventh day [now mentioned 3 times], and sanctified it [Qadash, meaning: to consecrate or set aside for holy use or purpose, the "Sabbath was made for man"; see Mark 2:27]: because that in it he had rested from all his work [GOD is the Example; see Hebrews 4:10] which God created and made. *Genesis 2:3 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. *Genesis 26:5 And the king of Egypt said unto them, Wherefore do ye, Moses and Aaron, let the people from their works? get you unto your burdens. *Exodus 5:4 And Pharaoh said, Behold, the people of the land now [are] many, and ye make them rest [Shabath, same word used in Genesis 2:2-3, meaning: to cease, or keep Sabbath] from their burdens. *Exodus 5:5 And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I [am] the LORD that healeth thee. We also need to keep in mind here that Jesus who is the creator and Lord of the Sabbath *John 1:1-4; 14; Mark 2:28 also tells us that he created the Sabbath in Genesis 2:1-3 for all mankind in Mark 2:27. The reason why I believe the Exodus 16 command was given is shown in the chapter contexts. In Exodus 16, prior to the promulgation of the Decalogue and the inauguration of the Mosaic covenant, Israel obeyed the Sabbath law by resting “on the seventh day” (Exod. 16:30). God indicated in this chapter that some Israelites, however, were not keeping the Sabbath commandment with these words: “How long do you [plural] refuse to keep My commandments and My instructions [or ‘laws’; Heb. torah]? See, the LORD has given you the sabbath . . .” (Exod. 16:28-29). That this is not a new, unknown institution seems to be indicated by the words of Exodus 16:23, “This is what the LORD meant: Tomorrow is a sabbath observance, a holy sabbath to the LORD.” The NASB is the only major English translation that translates the Hebrew dabar as “meant.” It is normally translated at this point as “said” or “commanded.” Taking it as “meant” does not necessarily rule out that God had said or commanded these very words (or something close to them) at some point prior to the events narrated in Exodus 16. It is clear that God had previously spoken and instituted a Sabbath for which ancient Israel was accountable prior to the inauguration of the Mosaic covenant.

More to come...
 
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SECOND TABLE:

[5] And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: *Genesis 2:16 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. *Genesis 2:17 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without. *Genesis 9:22 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid [it] upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces [were] backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness. *Genesis 9:23 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him. *Genesis 9:24 Now therefore, my son, obey my voice according to that which I command thee. *Genesis 27:8 And his mother said unto him, Upon me [be] thy curse, my son: only obey my voice, and go fetch me [them]. *Genesis 27:13 Now therefore, my son, obey my voice; and arise, flee thou to Laban my brother to Haran; *Genesis 27:43 Gather yourselves together, and hear, ye sons of Jacob; and hearken unto Israel your father. *Genesis 49:2

[6] But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. *Genesis 2:17 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? *Genesis 3:1 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: *Genesis 3:4 And when the woman saw that the tree [was] good for food, and that it [was] pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make [one] wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. *Genesis 3:6 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou [art], and unto dust shalt thou return. *Genesis 3:19 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell. *Genesis 4:5 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? *Genesis 4:6 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee [shall be] his desire, and thou shalt rule over him. *Genesis 4:7 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him. *Genesis 4:8 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground. *Genesis 4:10 O my soul, come not thou into their secret; unto their assembly, mine honour, be not thou united: for in their anger they slew a man, and in their selfwill they digged down a wall. *Genesis 49:6

[7] Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. *Genesis 2:24 The princes also of Pharaoh saw her, and commended her before Pharaoh: and the woman was taken into Pharaoh's house. *Genesis 12:15 And the LORD plagued Pharaoh and his house with great plagues because of Sarai Abram's wife. *Genesis 12:17 And Pharaoh called Abram, and said, What [is] this [that] thou hast done unto me? why didst thou not tell me that she [was] thy wife? *Genesis 12:18 Why saidst thou, She [is] my sister? so I might have taken her to me to wife: now therefore behold thy wife, take [her], and go thy way. *Genesis 12:19 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous; *Genesis 18:20 But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, Behold, thou [art but] a dead man, for the woman which thou hast taken; for she [is] a man's wife. *Genesis 20:3 But Abimelech had not come near her: and he said, Lord, wilt thou slay also a righteous nation? *Genesis 20:4 Said he not unto me, She [is] my sister? and she, even she herself said, He [is] my brother: in the integrity of my heart and innocency of my hands have I done this. *Genesis 20:5 And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her. *Genesis 20:6 Now therefore restore the man [his] wife; for he [is] a prophet, and he shall pray for thee, and thou shalt live: and if thou restore [her] not, know thou that thou shalt surely die, thou, and all that [are] thine. *Genesis 20:7 Then Abimelech called Abraham, and said unto him, What hast thou done unto us? and what have I offended thee, that thou hast brought on me and on my kingdom a great sin? thou hast done deeds unto me that ought not to be done. *Genesis 20:9 For the LORD had fast closed up all the wombs of the house of Abimelech, because of Sarah Abraham's wife. *Genesis 20:18 [There is] none greater in this house than I; neither hath he kept back any thing from me but thee, because thou [art] his wife: how then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God? *Genesis 39:9 And it came to pass, as she spake to Joseph day by day, that he hearkened not unto her, to lie by her, [or] to be with her. *Genesis 39:10 Unstable as water, thou shalt not excel; because thou wentest up to thy father's bed; then defiledst thou [it]: he went up to my couch. *Genesis 49:4

[8] And when the woman saw that the tree [was] good for food, and that it [was] pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make [one] wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. *Genesis 3:6 And Laban went to shear his sheep: and Rachel had stolen the images that [were] her father's. *Genesis 31:19 And now, [though] thou wouldest needs be gone, because thou sore longedst after thy father's house, [yet] wherefore hast thou stolen my gods? *Genesis 31:30 With whomsoever thou findest thy gods, let him not live: before our brethren discern thou what [is] thine with me, and take [it] to thee. For Jacob knew not that Rachel had stolen them. *Genesis 31:32 Now Rachel had taken the images, and put them in the camel's furniture, and sat upon them. And Laban searched all the tent, but found [them] not. *Genesis 31:34 And Jacob was wroth, and chode with Laban: and Jacob answered and said to Laban, What [is] my trespass? what [is] my sin, that thou hast so hotly pursued after me? *Genesis 31:36 Whereas thou hast searched all my stuff, what hast thou found of all thy household stuff? set [it] here before my brethren and thy brethren, that they may judge betwixt us both. *Genesis 31:37 [And] when they were gone out of the city, [and] not [yet] far off, Joseph said unto his steward, Up, follow after the men; and when thou dost overtake them, say unto them, Wherefore have ye rewarded evil for good? *Genesis 44:4 [Is] not this [it] in which my lord drinketh, and whereby indeed he divineth? ye have done evil in so doing. *Genesis 44:5 And they said unto him, Wherefore saith my lord these words? God forbid that thy servants should do according to this thing: *Genesis 44:7 Behold, the money, which we found in our sacks' mouths, we brought again unto thee out of the land of Canaan: how then should we steal out of thy lord's house silver or gold? *Genesis 44:8 With whomsoever of thy servants it be found, both let him die, and we also will be my lord's bondmen. *Genesis 44:9

[9] Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? *Genesis 3:1 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: *Genesis 3:4 And the LORD said unto Cain, Where [is] Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: [Am] I my brother's keeper? *Genesis 4:9 My father peradventure will feel me, and I shall seem to him as a deceiver; and I shall bring a curse upon me, and not a blessing. *Genesis 27:12 And Jacob said unto his father, I [am] Esau thy firstborn; I have done according as thou badest me: arise, I pray thee, sit and eat of my venison, that thy soul may bless me. *Genesis 27:19] And he said, [Art] thou my very son Esau? And he said, I [am]. *Genesis 27:24 And Esau hated Jacob because of the blessing wherewith his father blessed him: and Esau said in his heart, The days of mourning for my father are at hand; then will I slay my brother Jacob. *Genesis 27:31

[10] And when the woman saw that the tree [was] good for food, and that it [was] pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make [one] wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. *Genesis 3:6 And Abraham said, Because I thought, Surely the fear of God [is] not in this place; and they will slay me for my wife's sake. *Genesis 20:11 And his brethren envied him; but his father observed the saying. *Genesis 37:11 Moreover thou shalt provide out of all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness; and place [such] over them, [to be] rulers of thousands, [and] rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens: *Exodus 18:21 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; *Hebrews 11:25

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So for me if we are doing an honest scripture review as shown through the scriptures above there is no "argument in silence" as we can see that Gods' people knew about Gods' 10 commandments including God's 4th commandment that God made for mankind according to Jesus in Mark 2:27-28 from Genesis 2:1-3 prior to Exodus 16 and Exodus 20. Keep in mind also when you read Exodus 20:8-11 the commandment starts off as "REMEMBER" the Sabbath day to keep it holy. It is something God's people have always known about from the very beginning. This becomes a bit of a problem in my view for those who do not keep all of God's 10 commandments according to the scriptures. If your interested we can also show the same for the shadow laws for remission of sins (burnt offerings, sin offerings etc) these of course are useless if people do not know what sin is (breaking God's commandments) so are all interconnected.
So the summary is that God's people knew God's laws before Exodus 16 and Exodus 20 and this include Gods' 4th commandment seventh day Sabbath.

Genesis 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. (the Hebrew word used for laws here is Torah). This of course is a whole new scripture study but we can save that for another day perhaps.

Hope this is helpful.
 
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The first text which indicates humans being commanded to observe the Sabbath, or keeping a sabbath is Exodus 16.

Ex 20:11 makes the case that the first text showing that humans were obligated to keep God's Sabbath - was Gen 2:1-3. So then that is "the first text" indicating human beings are commanded to keep the Sabbath.

Gen 2:1-3
And so the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their heavenly lights. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because on it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Ex 20:11
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and everything that is in them, and He rested on the seventh day; for that reason the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy (same word as in Gen 2 - Sanctified)

Ex 20:8-11 declares that God's act of Sanctifying something on Earth - creates an obligation for mankind to honor it.

Ex 20:10 "the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH)"

Mark 2:27 "the Sabbath was made for mankind - not mankind MADE for the Sabbath" speaks to the "making of both" in Gen 1 - Gen 2:3.

No wonder gentiles are commanded not to profane the Sabbath in Is 56:6.
Is 56:
Also the foreigners who join themselves to the Lord,
To attend to His service and to love the name of the Lord,
To be His servants, every one who keeps the Sabbath so as not to profane it,
And holds firmly to My covenant;

This obligation regarding the Sabbath commandment continues for all mankind - as it is included in the Law "written on heart and mind" under Jeremiah's New Covenant Jer 31:31-34 and is applicable to all mankind for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth according Is 66:23.

No wonder even non-Bible Sabbath keeping scholarship admits to these Bible details --
D.L. Moody
Baptist Confession of Faith Sectn 19
Westminster Confession of Faith Sectn 19
R.C Sproul
(C.H. Spurgeon)
etc

======================= FYI

interesting comment about God's act if sanctifying something - creating an obligation for mankind to honor it.

from: 20. The Sanctity of Marriage (Exodus 20:14) | Bible.org

...the commandment, “You shall not commit adultery.” The principle underlying this commandment is that of the sanctity of marriage. The difference between John and myself over the use of a wood chisel is also a matter of sanctification. To John, a wood chisel is to be sanctified—set apart for use only on wood. To me, a wood chisel can be used for any number of things, including, if necessary, automobile engines.

Throughout the Bible, God sets certain things apart; He restricts their use; He sanctifies them. Mount Sinai, from which God spoke to Moses and the Israelites, was sanctified, set apart. Neither man nor beast was allowed to draw too near to it (Exod. 19:12-13, 23-24). The Israelites themselves were set apart from the Egyptians and from all other nations. We will discover in our lesson that marriage and sex were also sanctified by God. The implications of the sanctity of sex and marriage are the subject of this lesson.
 
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