Hope in a pre-trib rapture.

Freth said:

Do pre-trib believers put all of their hope in the rapture?

Click to expand...

We're painted that way, as if it's relevant to the question of rapture-timing. But it's an ad-hominem that merely attacks motive.

Freth said:

Have you prepared yourself for that possibility?

Click to expand...

Absolutely, since I'm keenly aware I'm only human and can be wrong! But regarding timing belief, the warnings in scripture seem to indicate the danger isn't in expecting an imminent appearance, but in not being prepared because one sees it far off -

But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. Luke 12:45-46

Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. Matthew 24:42-44

I've talked with various people over the last 15 years. They generally don't care if bad things are coming. They won't prepare. Mostly they don't want to think about it.

What about pre-tribbers who might be wrong? Maybe they should have a plan B. Nope. No plan B. Don't want to think about it.

What about a plan C: a gentle way to die in case of fatal radiation dosage? This would be alcohol and charcoal grill. Nope. Don't want to think about it.

What if pre-tribbers are right but the US gets nuked a few years before the rapture and the tribulation period? Should they plan for that? Nope. Don't want to think about it.

It's almost like some people didn't want to think about what was coming and stumbled into the pre-trib doctrine. Great, now I have an excuse to not think about it, even though I wasn't thinking about it anyway.

I have had other people tell me they would just rather die than prepare for anything.

Matt5 said:

I've talked with various people over the last 15 years. They generally don't care if bad things are coming. They won't prepare. Mostly they don't want to think about it.

What about pre-tribbers who might be wrong? Maybe they should have a plan B. Nope. No plan B. Don't want to think about it.

What about a plan C: a gentle way to die in case of fatal radiation dosage? This would be alcohol and charcoal grill. Nope. Don't want to think about it.

What if pre-tribbers are right but the US gets nuked a few years before the rapture and the tribulation period? Should they plan for that? Nope. Don't want to think about it.

It's almost like some people didn't want to think about what was coming and stumbled into the pre-trib doctrine. Great, now I have an excuse to not think about it, even though I wasn't thinking about it anyway.

I have had other people tell me they would just rather die than prepare for anything.

Click to expand...

Post Trib avoid thinking about Death, obviously because they claim to live until the end of it all. The only preparation is dying. Living is thinking with the carnel preservation of sinful flesh. Dying is to be present with the Lord. Not thinking about it, is daily crucifying the flesh. Thinking about it, is prolonging the flesh until the last moment.

Freth said:

This thread is aimed at pre-trib believers, but I did not add a prefix, because I want anyone to be able to respond.

First, let me make it known, I believe in the second coming as the one and only gathering up.

My questions to pre-trib believers:

Do pre-trib believers put all of their hope in the rapture?
If so, will it be a crushing blow to your faith if you find yourself in the middle of tribulation?
Have you prepared yourself for that possibility?

Click to expand...

The issue is the timing of the Second Coming. It is not known. Claiming post trib is a very well known event. An event that no one knows if it will even happen. Not even Satan puts that much trust in God, does he? Post Trib trust in an unknown fact that Satan gets 42 months and then bound in a pit at the battle of Armageddon. Does Satan look forward to being bound in the pit as much as post trib teaching places the Second Coming at this same event? Satan knows the Second Coming is when Jesus claims and John points out as the 6th Seal. None of them state when the 6th Seal will happen. Satan should know when the 7th Trumpet will let him know the future. But after that point all will be known, even if most do not accept all the facts.

Jesus says, "the tribulation of those days." Jesus does not say, "after Satan's 42 months." Jesus did not know when He would come the Second Time, much less if Satan gets 42 months. Jesus says: Mark 12:9
"What will the owner of the vineyard do? He will come, destroy those tenants and give the vineyard to others!"

The vineyard was given to the church. That was the First Coming. Will the vineyard be given to Satan at the Second Coming? I think that depends on the church. Post trib teaches that Satan does get the vineyard. Have they given up that fact to Satan, unwittingly?

The hope is in the Second Coming. The hope should be a golden harvest. Satan should get nothing.

Timtofly said:

Satan should get nothing.

Click to expand...

I've heard that's what the scroll is all about - ie the deed to the earth. The writing on the outside being the legal requirements for opening it, the writing on the inside conveying ownership. That's why everyone in heaven weeps when none are found worthy to open it - until the lamb steps up. So Satan does get nothing - the kingdoms of the world become the kingdoms of God and of his Christ Revelation 11:15

Rachel20 said:

I've heard that's what the scroll is all about - ie the deed to the earth. The writing on the outside being the legal requirements for opening it, the writing on the inside conveying ownership. That's why everyone in heaven weeps when none are found worthy to open it - until the lamb steps up. So Satan does get nothing - the kingdoms of the world become the kingdoms of God and of his Christ Revelation 11:15

Click to expand...

Then you accept Satan should not get 42 months? There should be no battle of Armageddon? The Second Coming is prior to the Trumpets and Thunders?

If Satan gets 42 months, he is the Steward and the Millennium is postponed. The Second Coming is not postponed. The Second Coming happened before the 7th Seal. The 7th Seal happens before the first Trumpet. The 7 Thunders happen between the 6th and 7th Trumpets. This is what John wrote. This is what many claim to be hard to understand. Why?

And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. - Revelation 19:14

If we are going to return and reign with Christ a 1,000 years we must have rose earlier otherwise that would have been a quick trip! The return of Christ to reign a thousand years also does not sound as an event happening as a thief in the night.

Freth said:

irst, let me make it known, I believe in the second coming as the one and only gathering up.

Click to expand...

That would be post-trib.

I personally don't dwell on nor consider "what if I am wrong" concerning the rapture. I focus on what is correct, and trying to convince the other guy.

I am anytime rapture view...

Timtofly said:

Then you accept Satan should not get 42 months? There should be no battle of Armageddon? The Second Coming is prior to the Trumpets and Thunders?

Click to expand...

The battle of Armageddon is God settling his controversy with the nations (Jeremiah 25:31). Satan is just a tool.

Timtofly said:

If Satan gets 42 months, he is the Steward and the Millennium is postponed. The Second Coming is not postponed.

Click to expand...

How is the Millennium postponed? The 70 weeks were determined by God, they're his timing (Daniel 9:24).

Timtofly said:

The Second Coming happened before the 7th Seal. The 7th Seal happens before the first Trumpet. The 7 Thunders happen between the 6th and 7th Trumpets. This is what John wrote. This is what many claim to be hard to understand. Why?

Click to expand...

The confusion clears when you realize the 7th of each series is a container class. The 7th seal contains all the trumpets, and the 7th trumpet contains all the bowls. Thus, all happening in the bowls, trumpets, appear to occur before the 7th seal is even complete. This is only complexing to a linear view.

Douggg said:

anytime rapture view...

Click to expand...

Me too!

Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. - Matthew 24:42

Freth said:

This thread is aimed at pre-trib believers, but I did not add a prefix, because I want anyone to be able to respond.

First, let me make it known, I believe in the second coming as the one and only gathering up.

My questions to pre-trib believers:

Do pre-trib believers put all of their hope in the rapture?
If so, will it be a crushing blow to your faith if you find yourself in the middle of tribulation?
Have you prepared yourself for that possibility?

Click to expand...

Perhaps I could rephrase the question, so to speak. I will aim it at posttribbers.

First, let me be perfectly clear:I believe in a pretrib rapture because that is what 1 Thes. 4 & 5 teaches us.

Do posttribbers put all of their hope in Jesus NOT coming pretrib to collect His bride?
If so, will be be a crushing blow to find yourself left behind because you had no faith in the pretrib coming and it happened just as Paul told us it would - and you were left behind?

Have you prepared yourself to be left behind? (These last two questions are mute because that is where your faith is. Posttribers PLAN on seeing the Beast. What they don't plan on is being overcome.

Freth said:

This thread is aimed at pre-trib believers, but I did not add a prefix, because I want anyone to be able to respond.

First, let me make it known, I believe in the second coming as the one and only gathering up.

My questions to pre-trib believers:

Do pre-trib believers put all of their hope in the rapture?
If so, will it be a crushing blow to your faith if you find yourself in the middle of tribulation?
Have you prepared yourself for that possibility?

Click to expand...

Personally, I do believe in the pre tribulation rapture, however, my focus is on Jesus and Jesus alone. If the rapture turns out to be after the tribulation, then it won't bother my because I know that God is with me and loves me. Even in the face of death or persecution, I would not fear because Jesus has done so much for me and I know that I have eternal life with him.

Freth said:

Have you prepared yourself for that possibility?

Click to expand...

Hello Freth,

Another way to re-phrase the question would perhaps be are we prepared for persecution and martyrdom?

God Bless

Freth said:

I live in faith daily, preparing myself for whatever may come. We'll find out shortly.

Click to expand...

What is coming soon, is our test by fire. 1 Peter 4:12
There will be no 'rapture', it will come upon everyone the world over. Luke 21:34-35
It will be the Sixth Seal event, the Lord's Day of wrath and we should know all about it, as over 100 Bible prophesies describe it and warn us of that Day.
On that Day, a literal 24 hour day; we must stand firm in our faith and trust the Lord for our protection. Isaiah 41:13, Isaiah 43:2, 2 Peter 3:2

Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.


The New Covenant: Bob George

.

Freth said:

This thread is aimed at pre-trib believers, but I did not add a prefix, because I want anyone to be able to respond.

First, let me make it known, I believe in the second coming as the one and only gathering up.

My questions to pre-trib believers:

Do pre-trib believers put all of their hope in the rapture?
If so, will it be a crushing blow to your faith if you find yourself in the middle of tribulation?
Have you prepared yourself for that possibility?

Click to expand...

Not a pretribulationist myself (Pre wrath is my position, in other words, sixth seal)

But most pretribulationists I've talked to have said if it really does come to pass that they were wrong and they find themselves in the 70th week of Daniel, that they still have faith God will deliver them through it, they accept that their position can be wrong because it is a human interpretation.. a lot of them basically HOPE it's a Pretribulation but are in essence "pantribulationists" as in, "it'll all pan out in the end"
which is encouraging, because that has always been my concern with pretribulationism is that they can get discouraged if they were wrong, and end up falling away.
I feel better if they really are just "hope it's pretrib, spiritually prepare like it's post trib"
The teachings of Jesus always were to endure endure endure, but pray to escape.

Jamdoc said:

The teachings of Jesus always were to endure endure endure, but pray to escape.

Click to expand...

It is pray to be kept from, not escape as in removal away from.
This is explained fully in many prophesies that say how the Lord will protect His own people.
Daniel 3:25 An angel protects the 3 men in the furnace. THEY weren’t taken out of it!
1 Corinthians 10:13.... God will not test you beyond your powers and when the test comes, He will provide a way out to enable you to endure.
Psalms 23:4 Even if I walk through a valley of darkness, I will fear no harm, for You are with me.
Isaiah 41:3 For I the Lord, will hold your right hand, saying: fear not, I will help you.
Isaiah 43:2b…walk thru fire and you will not be scorched, thru flames and not be burned.

Zephaniah 2:3 Seek the Lord, all you who obey Him, it may be that you will be sheltered on the Day of the Lord’s anger.
Proverbs 3:25 Do not be afraid when fools are frightened or when destruction overtakes the wicked, for the Lord will be at your side on that Day.