Removing the laws of God- what does it really mean?

Nathan@work said:

Does it work both ways in your thought?

Can good fruit be seen by bad fruit bearers as good fruit?

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Leaf473 said:

To bring it around to the thread topic, I think it's strange, then, that most Christians who are producing the fruit of the Spirit are not guided by the discernment from the spirit to divide the scriptures in such a way that they understand that they are to refrain from physical labor on the Sabbath.

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BobRyan said:

Is that needed for some reason??

Is there a Bible text that says that the lost have 100% clarity?

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Nathan@work said:

Hence my question.

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BobRyan said:

John 16 Jesus said "I have many more things to tell you but you cannot bear them now"

In Acts 10 - Peter starts off still-clueless about the fact that gentiles were to receive the Gospel just like everyone else.

I think it is "strange" that Peter as a real-deal Apostle was in the dark for that length of time... yet it was so.

A number of other people today think it is "strange" that so many Christians still believe in Purgatory and prayers to the dead, yet they do.

Some Christians think it strange that other Christians still believe that Christians have no free will.

Other Christians think it is strange that other Christians still believe that people do have free will.

The solution is not to go around claiming that nobody is a born-again Christian if they do not view all Bible doctrine as you do. (Using "you" in the generic sense)

So while it is true that the "Spirit of Truth" of John 16 - is 100% accurate with 100% truth - it is not true that only Christians that are 100% correct on all doctrine - have the indwelling Holy Spirit.

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imge said:

Hi there,

Thanks for getting back to me...

You said

Well, myself I don't divide the law into the shadow laws and non-shadow laws. I believe they are all fulfilled by Jesus, he said that's what he came to do.

and than

If you're asking: Do I believe Christians today ought to sacrifice animals for their sins, no, I do not believe that.

and previously said this

No, I'm not saying the Ten commandments are Shadow laws, sorry I didn't make that clear.

So you do divide the laws since you agree the Ten are not shadows laws, than go on to say the law regarding sacrificial animals is a shadow law, which I also agree with. However, your statement seems contradict each other.

Some laws are shadow laws that ended at the cross like circumcision, animal sacrifices and feast days Hebrews 10:5,6 Colossians 2:16,17 but Paul goes on to say circumcision or no circumcision does not matter but what matters is keeping the Commandments of God Cor 7:19


I asked if it's okay to take the Lord's name in vain and your reply was

I believe taking God's name in vain refers to the practice of swearing an oath, usually with the formula "As YHWH lives..."
I think the commandment is saying if you take an oath using God's name, be sure you keep it.
Jesus expanded on that commandment, saying Don't take an oath at all.

So in your opinion, it's okay to literally take the Lord's name in vain as long as you are not taking an oath?


And I'm glad you asked about a concrete example.

Excellent example.

I cannot imagine how a person who truly loves their neighbor would then want to put money above God.

This is a good example and I can't imagine why anyone who truly loves Jesus would not want to keep His commandments because Jesus asked us to out of His own mouth- if you love Me, you will keep My commandments. John 14:15 John 15:10

Do you remember the story of the man who has lots of good crops and so decides to build a bigger Barn? He could easily have been obeying the letter of the law. But God calls him a fool.

Can you quote the scripture please

I think that one of the purposes of the law was to prepare Israel to receive the Messiah. It conforms the outward part of a person.

I think the purpose of the law is to prepare all of us for Heaven, where we will still have free will, but there will be no more sin. God's laws are the essence of His character and the law helps us to be more like Christ which is what the scriptures teach we should be like 1 Corinthians 11:1-2, John 8:12

God commandments establishes what sin is: Romans 7:7

1. The law is holy and good Romans 7:12 like God Luke 18:19 Isaiah 5:16
2. The law is Just Romans 7:12 Like God is Deuteronomy 32:4
3.The law is perfect Psalms 19:7 Like God is Perfect Mathew 5:48
4. The law is Love Romans 13:10 God is love 1 John 4:8
5. The law is Righteous Psalms 19:9 God is Righteous Exodus 9:27
6.The law is Truth Psalms 119:142 Psalms 119:151 God is Truth Deuteronomy 32:4
7. The laws are Pure Psalms 19:8 God is Pure I John 3:3
8. The laws are Spiritual Romans 7:14 God is Spiritual John 4:24
9. The laws are unchangeable Matthew 5:18 God is Unchangeable Malachi 3:6
10.The laws are eternal Psalms 111:7,8 God is eternal Genesis 21:33


But the Spirit inside of Christians changes them from the inside out.
Agree, this is what the New Covenant is about Hebrews 8:10 God writes His laws in our hearts. They didn't go away. We obey God because of our love and its the morally right thing to do to not sin and morally wrong thing to do when we sin (break God's laws). So we now keep God's commandment in the New Covenant not because He commanded us, because we have a changed heart. Jesus reinforces the laws are still valid when He said He did not come to destroy Gods laws. Mathew 5:17-20 but also asks if you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15

God bless

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imge said:

Thanks for the reply.

Regarding your last sentence, you didn't provide scripture but I am assuming it's referring to Genesis 1:28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it;

Correct me if I am wrong though, if not, please provide scripture so we are on the same page.

In the garden He made Adam and Eve. God intended to have a world full of people, so that passage was directed to them. By the time Jesus came, there was already a world full of people, so would that make sense when Jesus asked us to keep the commandments it would be referring to "be fruitful and multiply"?

It does leave me a little perplexed though why you wouldn't assume when Jesus asked us to keep His commandments, that it would not include all the laws, including God's morals laws that He told us are eternal. Psalm 111:7,8, Psalms 89:34, Luke 16:17

But lets not take my word for it what does Jesus say on this matter.

First of all, Jesus tells us He never came down from Heaven to do His will, but the will of His Father
John 6:38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

Someone asked Jesus which commandments you needed to keep and He answered:

Mathew 19:
16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?” 17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 He said to Him, “Which ones?” Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

Jesus starts naming the Ten commandments found here Exodus 20 which God already told us are eternal.

Jesus also told us He did not come to destroy the laws.

Mathew 5:17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

If anyone thinks fulfill means anything other than we still need to keep is only fooling themselves, because Jesus makes that very clear by saying " Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets" "Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven." Common sense alone, you should know Jesus does not want us to sin, which is breaking the commandments. Romans 7:7


Jesus did not come to destroy He came to magnify the law Isaiah 42:21 The Lord is well pleased for His righteousness’ sake; He will exalt the law and make it honorable. The perfect way for holy living.

When Jesus was asked which are the greatest commandemnt He said:

Mathew 22: 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?” 37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.” A lot of people forget to add the last scripture when quoting Jesus. This means all the laws and the greatest commandments are the Ten summarized. Commandments 1-4 how God wants us to show our love to Him and commandments 5-10 how God wants us to show love to each other.

Jesus also said He obeyed all of God's laws and wants us to as well: John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

And Jesus telling us if we love Him, we will obey John 14:15 15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments.

I love Jesus and it seems you do too. We are told His commandments are made from love and its how we show love to God, when we obey.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

Hope this helps.

God bless

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imge said:

You are confusing God instructing Adam and Eve to multiple, with God's moral laws, which is an eternal covenant and cannot be broken. I honestly do not think you understand the scriptures that was presented to you. You might want to consider them again in prayer.

There is no scripture telling us we should no longer keep God's commandments as they are the moral right thing to do, not sin. It seems like the only commandment you have an issue with is the 4th that God said Remember and is a perpetual covenant Exodus 31:16.

We are told to keep the Sabbath by not doing your own pleasures on God's holy day. Isaiah 58:13 Since God gives us free will, if you do not want to worship God on Sabbath on this earth, will you want to on the New Earth? Isaiah 66:23 because those saved will be for eternity. This is a serious question to ask yourself.

I really think those who are so quick to dismiss an eternal commandment, to justify their will over God's might want to reexamine their faith, which is how we are saved. Does real faith include rewriting commandments to suit your needs and not Gods?

Because we are told those who have faith and keep His commandments are His saints.

Revelations 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

God bless

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imge said:

You are confusing God instructing Adam and Eve to multiple, with God's moral laws, which is an eternal covenant and cannot be broken. I honestly do not think you understand the scriptures that was presented to you. You might want to consider them again in prayer.

There is no scripture telling us we should no longer keep God's commandments as they are the moral right thing to do, not sin. It seems like the only commandment you have an issue with is the 4th that God said Remember and is a perpetual covenant Exodus 31:16.

We are told to keep the Sabbath by not doing your own pleasures on God's holy day. Isaiah 58:13 Since God gives us free will, if you do not want to worship God on Sabbath on this earth, will you want to on the New Earth? Isaiah 66:23 because those saved will be for eternity. This is a serious question to ask yourself.

I really think those who are so quick to dismiss an eternal commandment, to justify their will over God's might want to reexamine their faith, which is how we are saved. Does real faith include rewriting commandments to suit your needs and not Gods?

Because we are told those who have faith and keep His commandments are His saints.

Revelations 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

God bless

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imge said:

Mmmm, I don't think you read anything I wrote. You might want to reread #2048 again. Some of your questions and responses seem contradictory to this, but that's between you and God.

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imge said:

Sure, do you? God writes His laws in our hearts (eternal) and we receive the Holy Spirit as a gift when we obey. Acts 5:32. When cannot know the Spirit of the law if we do not know the letter. God literally does not want us to lie, do you think that He does? Or break any of His commandments. We keep God's laws because of our love in the New Covenant, not because He commanded us.

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imge said:

Hi there,

Thanks for getting back to me...

You said

Well, myself I don't divide the law into the shadow laws and non-shadow laws. I believe they are all fulfilled by Jesus, he said that's what he came to do.

and than

If you're asking: Do I believe Christians today ought to sacrifice animals for their sins, no, I do not believe that.

and previously said this

No, I'm not saying the Ten commandments are Shadow laws, sorry I didn't make that clear.

So you do divide the laws since you agree the Ten are not shadows laws, than go on to say the law regarding sacrificial animals is a shadow law, which I also agree with. However, your statement seems contradict each other.

Some laws are shadow laws that ended at the cross like circumcision, animal sacrifices and feast days Hebrews 10:5,6 Colossians 2:16,17 but Paul goes on to say circumcision or no circumcision does not matter but what matters is keeping the Commandments of God Cor 7:19


I asked if it's okay to take the Lord's name in vain and your reply was

I believe taking God's name in vain refers to the practice of swearing an oath, usually with the formula "As YHWH lives..."
I think the commandment is saying if you take an oath using God's name, be sure you keep it.
Jesus expanded on that commandment, saying Don't take an oath at all.

So in your opinion, it's okay to literally take the Lord's name in vain as long as you are not taking an oath?


And I'm glad you asked about a concrete example.

Excellent example.

I cannot imagine how a person who truly loves their neighbor would then want to put money above God.

This is a good example and I can't imagine why anyone who truly loves Jesus would not want to keep His commandments because Jesus asked us to out of His own mouth- if you love Me, you will keep My commandments. John 14:15 John 15:10

Do you remember the story of the man who has lots of good crops and so decides to build a bigger Barn? He could easily have been obeying the letter of the law. But God calls him a fool.

Can you quote the scripture please

I think that one of the purposes of the law was to prepare Israel to receive the Messiah. It conforms the outward part of a person.

I think the purpose of the law is to prepare all of us for Heaven, where we will still have free will, but there will be no more sin. God's laws are the essence of His character and the law helps us to be more like Christ which is what the scriptures teach we should be like 1 Corinthians 11:1-2, John 8:12

God commandments establishes what sin is: Romans 7:7, Romans 3:20

1. The law is holy and good Romans 7:12 like God Luke 18:19 Isaiah 5:16
2. The law is Just Romans 7:12 Like God is Deuteronomy 32:4
3.The law is perfect Psalms 19:7 Like God is Perfect Mathew 5:48
4. The law is Love Romans 13:10 God is love 1 John 4:8
5. The law is Righteous Psalms 19:9 God is Righteous Exodus 9:27
6.The law is Truth Psalms 119:142 Psalms 119:151 God is Truth Deuteronomy 32:4
7. The laws are Pure Psalms 19:8 God is Pure I John 3:3
8. The laws are Spiritual Romans 7:14 God is Spiritual John 4:24
9. The laws are unchangeable Matthew 5:18 God is Unchangeable Malachi 3:6
10.The laws are eternal Psalms 111:7,8 God is eternal Genesis 21:33


But the Spirit inside of Christians changes them from the inside out.
Agree, this is what the New Covenant is about Hebrews 8:10 God writes His laws in our hearts. They didn't go away. We obey God because of our love and its the morally right thing to do to not sin and morally wrong thing to do when we sin (break God's laws). So we now keep God's commandment in the New Covenant not because He commanded us, because we have a changed heart. Jesus reinforces the laws are still valid when He said He did not come to destroy Gods laws. Mathew 5:17-20 and also asks if you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15

God bless

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Jesus reinforces the laws are still valid when He said He did not come to destroy Gods laws. Mathew 5:17-20

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imge said:

What does that mean to you “fulfilled”?

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Do you think its a sin to worship idols? Or lie?

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