Voting rights vs Gun Rights

Nithavela · Apr 7, 2021

Pavel Mosko said:
There is an interesting point made from a documentary I watched. I believe it was on the English Monarchy its laws, and it heritage, and how that became part of American law, culture etc. People tend to trace Democracy from the Greek heritage, but the Germanic heritage actually influenced the development of rights and democracy too in England as well. (Which actually kind of was one of those little tid bits I noticed watching the TV show Vikings but I'm getting ahead of myself).

Anyway from the Germanic heritage came the ability to vote, but that came from bearing arms. You had a say in how things went because you would fight for the chieftain, King of whoever. And not only that, that was one way they taxed you, they often required you to spend so much time in military service etc.

But that sort of thing has been true in other cultures as well. But the other point to that is that being armed is one major distinction that differentiates free people from slaves and surfs, throughout the World and history. Basically if you go around the World you will almost always find that conquered people, enslaved people are disarmed by the ruling party so they will be helpless and complaint.

serfs, not surfs

Estrid · Apr 7, 2021

Occams Barber said:
EXPLANATION: You can't kill someone with a ballot.

OB

Sure you can. Its called " indirect fire".

Estrid · Apr 7, 2021

Nithavela said:
serfs, not surfs

A mistypo like that kills the outfit.

Estrid · Apr 7, 2021

Hank77 said:
I haven't had a photo ID since I quit driving a few years ago. I would have to travel over 60 miles to get one.

Soo?
I'd like have to go thousands of miles for US ID.

Not really. There people here could make it for me

renniks · Apr 7, 2021

grasping the after wind said:
believe one will find that voting was not actually considered an innate human right by those that wrote the Constitution. The right to vote was proffered upon the US citizen by the Constitution not a natural right but a duty and privilege that could be withheld for specific reasons. There is no phraseology about voting similar to the phrases "the Congress shall make no law respecting … or prohibiting …. or abridging … " or " the right of the people to … shall not be infringed"

That's what I thought. And there's the difference.

Oompa Loompa · Apr 7, 2021

grasping the after wind said:
According to the poll referenced in the article linked below, you and your neighborhood and family agree with the majority view of the black community nationwide.

Poll: 70 percent support voter ID laws | TheHill

I would argue that that statistic is too low. I don't know a single black person who is not offended by the suggestion that we are somehow too poor or stupid to figure out how to get an ID or use the internet (like Joe Biden suggests).

Sketcher · Apr 7, 2021

I would lean towards the second in principle, but in practice you need to make sure you're only counting every eligible voter's vote once.

NxNW · Apr 7, 2021

Oompa Loompa said:
That is the argument, but that is not the case. I I don't know of a single person who was unable to get an ID for any reason. I don't know of a single person who doesn't have a photo id.

Here are some examples, which are easy to find.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...5474ec-20f0-11e6-8690-f14ca9de2972_story.html

NxNW · Apr 7, 2021

Oompa Loompa said:
I would argue that that statistic is too low. I don't know a single black person who is not offended by the suggestion that we are somehow too poor or stupid to figure out how to get an ID or use the internet (like Joe Biden suggests).

Joe Biden never suggested that.

Oompa Loompa · Apr 7, 2021

NxNW said:
Here are some examples, which are easy to find.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...5474ec-20f0-11e6-8690-f14ca9de2972_story.html

What does anything in the article have to do with people being unable to get an ID because they were poor, black, Latino, or elderly? Yes, there are situations that make it more difficult to get an ID, like your mother changing YOUR last name because SHE got remarried. Those situations are out there and I am sure the Washington Post had to do a lot of digging to find those examples to feed the false narrative. On the other hand, do you have any idea how hard it is to get a concealed weapons permit in California? We can play the tit for tat game all you want. How about we make things fair and make it just as easy to vote as it is to purchase a firearm?

OldWiseGuy · Apr 7, 2021

renniks said:
Is voting guaranteed in the constitution?

There are no provisions for 'g

Occams Barber said:
In my country gun ownership is not a constitutional right and Australians are strongly opposed to public gun ownership.

Voting is compulsory and voter ID is only required in one state (Queensland) where a utility bill will be accepted as proof of identity. The idea of requiring voter identification has been investigated a number of times. The consistent finding has been that voter ID is a solution in search of a problem.

OB

I don't think Australia has the same 'citizenship' problems we face.

Oompa Loompa · Apr 7, 2021

NxNW said:
Joe Biden never suggested that.

Yes...he did.
https://twitter.com/CaliforniaPanda...-hispanic-americans-internet-to-find-vaccines

OldWiseGuy · Apr 7, 2021

NxNW said:
Joe Biden never suggested that.

But he agreed with it implicitly.

OldWiseGuy · Apr 7, 2021

Oompa Loompa said:
What does anything in the article have to do with people being unable to get an ID because they were poor, black, Latino, or elderly? Yes, there are situations that make it more difficult to get an ID, like your mother changing YOUR last name because SHE got remarried. Those situations are out there and I am sure the Washington Post had to do a lot of digging to find those examples to feed the false narrative. On the other hand, do you have any idea how hard it is to get a concealed weapons permit in California? We can play the tit for tat game all you want. How about we make thing fair and make it just as easy to vote as it is to purchase a firearm?

Wish granted! It is easier to vote legally than to legally purchase a firearm (but you need a valid ID for both).

Occams Barber · Apr 7, 2021

OldWiseGuy said:
There are no provisions for 'g

I don't think Australia has the same 'citizenship' problems we face.

I'm hearing that your 'citizenship' problem is just an excuse for voter suppression. This is also consistent with the use of gerrymandering.
OB

Oompa Loompa · Apr 7, 2021

Occams Barber said:
I'm hearing that your 'citizenship' problem is just an excuse for voter suppression. This is also consistent with the use of gerrymandering.
OB

Why are Australians so concerned about the domestic affairs of the United States?

Occams Barber · Apr 7, 2021

Oompa Loompa said:
Why are Australians so concerned about the domestic affairs of the United States?

I'm concerned about injustice wherever it happens.

OB

Sparagmos · Apr 7, 2021

Oompa Loompa said:
That is the argument, but that is not the case. I I don't know of a single person who was unable to get an ID for any reason. I don't know of a single person who doesn't have a photo id.

Is that the standard, you have to know them? LOL.

Anyway, I have no problem with ID requirements as long as they are free and easy to obtain even if you have no birth certificate, etc. And you should have plenty of time to vote so that if you lose your ID or can’t find it you can get another one, unless it’s the last day in which case you could place a provisional ballot.

Sparagmos · Apr 7, 2021

Pavel Mosko said:
Except when you vote somebody bad, or incompetent into office who makes bad decisions and gets people killed ....

Yeah, you could say that votes are weapons of mass destruction if not used properly!

Sparagmos · Apr 8, 2021

Oompa Loompa said:
I would argue that that statistic is too low. I don't know a single black person who is not offended by the suggestion that we are somehow too poor or stupid to figure out how to get an ID or use the internet (like Joe Biden suggests).

Are you offended by the data that shows blacks are less likely to have an I.D.? That, not racist attitudes, are where we got the idea that it disproportionately hurts blacks to require I.D.

Voting rights vs Gun Rights

Which is preferable? You can only pick one.

Require photo identification to both buy a gun and vote.

Don't require identification for either voting or buying a gun because they are both constitutional

our world is happy and mundane

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