Pastor Expels COVID Police From His Church

com7fy8 · Apr 7, 2021

JustSomeBloke said:
it all hinges on whether masks are effective. I gather that there has been some peer reviewed research published indicating that masks don't really help much

I have checked various mainstream sources > it seems that masks can help, but certainly not by themselves. At least they can block droplets of virus which somehow get sprayed from someone nearby, or from you to someone near to you.

So, the help is limited.

I have read a little bit of the anti-mask stuff, and it does not seem to be scientific . . . what I read, anyway.

Or, ones might criticize what isn't even being claimed by mask supporters.

For one example > someone, if I remember correctly, said masks don't work because you can still breathe in the virus through the air. But this applies only to the dry, airborne virus. Most masks do not guard against dry air-carried virus; they block the droplet-carried virus from people who spray droplets toward your face.

Also, in case you have messed your hands with virus, somehow, the mask might help to keep you from sticking your fingers in your mouth or nose.

more in another post . . .

loveofourlord · Apr 7, 2021

com7fy8 said:
I have checked various mainstream sources > it seems that masks can help, but certainly not by themselves. At least they can block droplets of virus which somehow get sprayed from someone nearby, or from you to someone near to you.

So, the help is limited.

I have read a little bit of the anti-mask stuff, and it does not seem to be scientific . . . what I read, anyway.

Or, ones might criticize what isn't even being claimed by mask supporters.

For one example > someone, if I remember correctly, said masks don't work because you can still breathe in the virus through the air. But this applies only to the dry, airborne virus. Most masks do not guard against dry air-carried virus; they block the droplet-carried virus from people who spray droplets toward your face.

Also, in case you have messed your hands with virus, somehow, the mask might help to keep you from sticking your fingers in your mouth or nose.

more in another post . . .

masks you wear don't help you, they help other people, it's other people wearing masks that help you. Thats the catch, it requires everyone to wear masks to be effective.

expos4ever · Apr 7, 2021

loveofourlord said:
masks you wear don't help you, they help other people, it's other people wearing masks that help you. Thats the catch, it requires everyone to wear masks to be effective.

Wearing a mask protects the wearer, and not just other people, from the coronavirus, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention emphasized in an updated scientific brief issued Tuesday.

com7fy8 · Apr 7, 2021

JustSomeBloke said:
get a warrant. The fact that they left with their tails between their legs is a strong indicator that the law was not on their side.

But were they there in order to do what would require a warrant??

She is not a police officer, to my knowledge. She tried to talk with him, but he kept bellowing his guts out at her, shutting her up. So, he did not let her represent herself, according to what I remember seeing in the video, anyway.

He seemed possibly verbally abusive. And domestic verbal abuse and emotional brutality is well known for how it can morph into physical and even lethal violence. So, may be they already know things about him, so they had officers there to make sure she was safe. After all, the men only stayed with her; they did not use any sort of force and did not even say anything . . . during the video, if I remember correctly. So, I see it is possible they were there only as a precaution.

And, by the way, the church is not a building, plus Christianity is not all about some one day of a year.

Also, I don't think it is illegal to go where there is a gathering with the general public invited, and take a look at if regulations are being obeyed. I offer I understand, though, what you have said about the real agenda behind mask regs. I intend to offer about this, later

Did he have something to hide . . . from someone just intending to look?? He and others in the video did not have masks on. And they had already been reported for violations, it seems. So, her intention could have been simply to verify if his church was caring for the safety of ones who went there. And I have seen how dominating people can get very nasty if you threaten to expose how they are the ones not being caring for people > they can get nasty and emotionally and verbally brutal. So, what really was behind his way of relating with her? How does he relate with people?

Christian leaders have our command for how to relate with other people >

"nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:7)

So, legally, I suppose it is ok to go into a public-invited gathering to take a look . . . versus ganging in with a warrant. Plus, it is Christian and Constitutional to let an accused person speak for oneself in a fair hearing - - not brutally shut someone up, before you conclude and claim he or she is a Nazi etc. But I understand these forums include not only people who live by the United States Constitution and how Jesus has us not lording ourselves over other people.

But, also, the American Constitution guarantees how an accused person is not to be evaluated by how previous evil people have done things, or even by past offenses of that person; but each incident is tried by its own merit . . . even for known repeat offenders. I don't know anything about her!!

So, in any case, I would say having police with her does not automatically make her a Nazi-etc, just because police in the past have gone into churches in order to make trouble.

And . . . by the way . . . in Jesus we simply keep submitting to Him, so this world's tricks can not break us in . . . even while we may obey certain items. Still, we stay in submission to Jesus so we do not come under the power of Satan's kingdom. But ones in Satan's kingdom already are in submission to him; so masks don't really do that, but it can be a trick to suppose they do, when already Satan's people are controlled . . . by his lusts and "fear of death" (Hebrews 2:14-15) and arguing and blaming and accusing others for how people do their own selves in. I can simply make sure I wear a mask without fearing death and loss of control, so all this stuff does not have us under its power.

brinny · Apr 7, 2021

Pommer said:
In Canada.

i certainly hope so.

What is existing without liberty? It's existing under tyranny, at the whim of tyrants with NO rights and NO voice and just an expendable piece of nothing.

1984, anyone?

BNR32FAN · Apr 7, 2021

JustSomeBloke said:
Video of Canadian pastor forcing police out of church during Passover celebration goes viral

“we’re living in a … total takeover of the government with their thugs, goons, the brown shirts, their Gestapo wannabe dictators coming to the church armed with guns and tasers and handcuffs to intimidate during Passover celebration.”

Edited to add YouTube video embed:

This pastor is being unreasonable. Furthermore he’s spreading a bed of lies and false accusations against these officers. Anyone with half a brain knows that police officers carry guns and tasers everywhere they go because they never know what they will encounter. These officers handled themselves admirably and its this pastor who should be ashamed The officers came to talk, not to intimidate and they calmly and quietly left the premises while being badgered with insults and false accusations by this pastor and he has the nerve to say that they were the intimidators? If this were my pastor I’d rebuke him to his face right then & there.

com7fy8 · Apr 7, 2021

JustSomeBloke said:
I'll also add that 'Think of the children!' is a logical fallacy that is known as an 'appeal to emotion'.

But I don't think this is what I mean.

I said something like this >

If thousands of children were the ones dying of COVID, would you still disagree with wearing a mask?

I do not mean this to deal with people's emotions, but with if they have consistent principles. Would they be just as against masks, if their own children were the main ones being killed and masks could help??

Right now, in the United States, we have a report that over half a million Americans have been killed by the virus. But most of these have been seniors and ones with pre-existing medical conditions.

Ones might not care so much about such older people who possibly even have helped to ruin their own health so now the virus has been so easily able to harvest them. But if innocent children were the half a million people killed . . . would things be done differently? Would anti-maskers still be ok with no masks and letting the coronavirus finish off the young ones if they were the vulnerable ones?

I do not mean this as an emotional issue, but a moral question . . . if people are being consistent . . . and caring about others as themselves, not merely about their own convenience and kids.

BNR32FAN · Apr 7, 2021

JustSomeBloke said:
To oppress Christians.

But they didn’t oppress anyone. They were very calm and polite despite the attacks and unwarranted abusive language from the pastor who should be ashamed of himself. It seemed that they were there to talk and likely give a warning of some kind of infraction that may have been taking place which is a nice thing for them to do.

BNR32FAN · Apr 7, 2021

JustSomeBloke said:
I'm just guessing, but maybe in the absence of a warrant (which the pastor referred to several times in the video), Canadian police are not allowed to enter private property, or have to leave private property when asked to. If that turns out to be the case, would you support the police visiting themselves for violating the law?

Maybe there's a Canadian on here who can help us out with Canadian law on police powers, or lack of, to enter private properties without a warrant.

Having your hair done or holding a party isn't generally considered an undeniable human right, whereas practising the religion of your choice usually is considered an undeniable human right, except in oppressive countries such as China, North Korea etc.

Interestingly, a Scottish court recently ruled on this, and that is of great interest to me, as I reside in the UK.
Covid in Scotland: Places of worship can open now after court win

Perhaps they were being courteous by coming by to give a warning of infractions against the law so that the church could comply and avoid penalties. Evidently they didn’t come to start trouble otherwise they would have.

BNR32FAN · Apr 7, 2021

JustSomeBloke said:
What would Jesus do? I guess we'll never know, but perhaps he would have made a whip from cords and driven them from the premises, as per John Chapter 2 Verses 13-17.

13 When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 14 In the temple courts he found people selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. 15 So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. 16 To those who sold doves he said, “Get these out of here! Stop turning my Father’s house into a market!” 17 His disciples remembered that it is written: “Zeal for your house will consume me.”

I’d be willing to bet that he would’ve allowed them to explain why they were there.

com7fy8 · Apr 7, 2021

JustSomeBloke said:
I'm also concerned about the long term effect of masks on society. God gave us all a unique identity, and our faces are a huge part of that. He also intended us to be social creatures with expressive faces. Covering faces with masks is a denial of our God-given unique identity and our social nature.

I offer this is clear. And thank you for taking time to explain all that you have

I said:
I do not mean this as an emotional issue, but a moral question . . . if people are being consistent . . . and caring about others as themselves, not merely about their own convenience and kids.

But, of course, we have much more valuable things to protect than only our lives and health. How our children turn out with ability to relate, indeed is a major thing for concern.

New Hampshire people have a saying, "Live free or die."

But . . . if a mask can control my ability to relate . . . am I really free?

Our Apostle Paul has said,

"I will not be brought under the power of any." (in 1 Corinthians 6:12)

So, if I am under the power of a mask, or under the power of not wanting a mask . . . I'm under some inferior power, either way.

Jesus could be nailed, but He was free. It did not depend on physical circumstances.

So . . . simply do not let human stuff have power to control you . . . including our attention. I don't let the mask stuff keep my attention tied up; I just have chosen to wear one, and . . .

Actually, I have been a non-expressive person. You can smile kindly at me and I'll just give you a pasty pancake unexpressive look. Horrible, yes. I must have some problem about loving. But now that I wear a mask, I tend to be more expressive with my voice, which for some time I was not. I was pretty flat and monotone and hiding emotion. So, for me the mask thing has pressed me into some sort of an unexpected benefit

to try to be more expressive and encouraging with people, now that there are things which can go against this.

By the way > we have been masking ourselves by texting instead of taking time to actually talk with each other and see each other while having conversations. Yet, how many are saying this is a way to bring people into impersonal relating and therefore they won't do this?

By not identifying ourselves in these forums, we are masking ourselves.

So, I say ones are picking and choosing how they refuse to be controlled . . . to some extent.

But yes children are much more vulnerable and in their developmental stage; not to mention . . . children have already been getting programmed into unexpressive impersonal video gaming and other stuff which might not be very good for personality and social development; yet, how much does this get confronted??

So we need to do whatever should be done about this. There is what we can do, I would say, but trying to change the general culture of this world might not work.

brinny · Apr 7, 2021

BNR32FAN said:
This pastor is being unreasonable. Furthermore he’s spreading a bed of lies and false accusations against these officers. Anyone with half a brain knows that police officers carry guns and tasers everywhere they go because they never know what they will encounter. These officers handled themselves admirably and its this pastor who should be ashamed The officers came to talk, not to intimidate and they calmly and quietly left the premises while being badgered with insults and false accusations by this pastor and he has the nerve to say that they were the intimidators? If this were my pastor I’d rebuke him to his face right then & there.

They were uninvited and trespassing. They didn't havd a legal leg to stand on, and they knew it.

They should've politely left just as quickly as they came.

Not all of them were police officers. They came to intimidate the Pastor and his congregation. They were TRESPASSING.

Did this Pastor lie? Did he sin?

Did Jesus sin when He DROVE out the moneychangers by His words or deeds?

To ignore injustice and other sins of ommission, including turning our heads from those suffering injustice and/or intimidation is abominable to God. So is defending tyrants, attempting to impose fear and intimidation on anyone.

No one knows the background of this Pastor, anc if experienced oppression, tyranny, communism, and tyrannical overreach of the gov't. Many who have escaped these tyrannical regimes know first hand the tyranny that enslaves entire countries, and are alert to allowing ANY gov't to even BEGIN to over step their boundaries.

Freedom isn't "free". We are to preserve and protect it, and to be vigilant in doing so.

"People shouldn't be afraid of their government. Governments should be afraid of their people." -Alan Moore

BNR32FAN · Apr 7, 2021

brinny said:
They were uninvited and trespassing. They didn't havd a legal leg to stand on, and they knew it.

They should've politely left just as quickly as they came.

Not all of them were police officers. They came to intimidate the Pastor and his congregation. They were TRESPASSING.

Did this Pastor lie? Did he sin?

Did Jesus sin when He DROVE out the moneychangers by His words or deeds?

To ignore injustice and other sins of ommission, including turning our heads from those suffering injustice and/or intimidation is abominable to God. So is defending tyrants, attempting to impose fear and intimidation on anyone.

No one knows the background of this Pastor, anc if experienced oppression, tyranny, communism, and tyrannical overreach of the gov't. Many who have escaped these tyrannical regimes know first hand the tyranny that enslaves entire countries, and are alert to allowing ANY gov't to even BEGIN to over step their boundaries.

Freedom isn't "free". We are to preserve and protect it, and to be vigilant in doing so.

"People shouldn't be afraid of their government. Governments should be afraid of their people." -Alan Moore

Your making assumptions as to why they were there, they never got a chance to say why they were there. The only person I saw intimidating anyone was the pastor. And in answer to your question yes the pastor did lie. Did they intimidate a single person? You don’t intimidate someone by being calm, polite, and courteous which is what they were. All I’m saying is that the pastor overreacted. He should’ve let them speak then acted appropriate. If they began make threats and intimidate then he would’ve been justified in his reaction and his accusations but as it stands now he was totally unjustified in his reaction because he didn’t even know what their intention was. They very well may have been there to urge them to comply with the law as a courtesy.

brinny · Apr 7, 2021

BNR32FAN said:
Your making assumptions as to why they were there, they never got a chance to say why they were there. The only person I saw intimidating anyone was the pastor. And I’m answer to your question yes the pastor did lie. Did they intimidate a single person? You don’t intimidate someone by being calm, polite, and courteous which is what they were. All I’m saying is that the pastor overreacted. He should’ve let them speak then acted appropriate. If they began make threats and intimidate then he would’ve been justified in his reaction and his accusations but as it stands now he was totally unjustified in his reaction because he didn’t even know what their intention was. They very well may have been there to urge them to comply with the law as a courtesy.

They INTERRUPTED a Passover service.

Read my above post again. It still stands.

We disagree.

We can agree to disagree.

The Pastor LIED?

He's evil and a villain here?

Speaking of lying, i'm curious:......did Rahab sin? She lied, blatantly.

On another note, would you object to anyone harboring/hiding a Jewish person or family during the Nazi regime, and lying about it?

Guinan · Apr 7, 2021

BNR32FAN said:
This pastor is being unreasonable. Furthermore he’s spreading a bed of lies and false accusations against these officers. Anyone with half a brain knows that police officers carry guns and tasers everywhere they go because they never know what they will encounter. These officers handled themselves admirably and its this pastor who should be ashamed The officers came to talk, not to intimidate and they calmly and quietly left the premises while being badgered with insults and false accusations by this pastor and he has the nerve to say that they were the intimidators? If this were my pastor I’d rebuke him to his face right then & there.

As another member pointed out, this pastor has a history of being very controversial. Apparently he doesn't have a problem disparaging other people while he's ranting on about something he doesn't approve of. I did a Google search on him and I think it's a real shame that he calls himself a pastor. I read a few articles about him and he gives the impression of being an offensive loudmouth who likes to draw attention to himself. He definitely doesn't give the impression that he loves his neighbor as he loves himself or that he loves his enemies and prays for them. He seems to have forgotten the Golden Rule of treating other people the way he wants to be treated. Perhaps a refresher on how Christians should behave and treat other people would be beneficial to him. He can start with Galatians 5:19-26 and 1 Corinthians 13. Anyway, I think it's very good for the Gospel and for evangelism that there are other Christians who demonstrate to doubting unbelievers that not all Christians are like this pastor.

BNR32FAN · Apr 7, 2021

brinny said:
They INTERRUPTED a Passover service.

Read my above post again. It still stands.

We disagree.

We can agree to disagree.

The Pastor LIED?

He's evil and a villain here?

Speaking of lying, i'm curious:......did Rahab sin? She lied, blatantly.

On another note, would you object to anyone harboring/hiding a Jewish person or family during the Nazi regime, and lying about it?

The guy was making a big deal about the police bringing guns and tasers into the church knowing full well that they carry those the entire time they’re on duty. None of the officers had a gun or a taser in their hand. Can’t you see that he was intentionally exaggerating the situation? He was saying they brought the guns and tasers to intimidate the church which is a lie. Comparing his lie to what Rahab did is not even remotely the same thing. Everyone knows that police carry guns and tasers so that they can defend themselves and protect others.

expos4ever · Apr 7, 2021

brinny said:
i certainly hope so.

What is existing without liberty? It's existing under tyranny, at the whim of tyrants with NO rights and NO voice and just an expendable piece of nothing.

1984, anyone?

What, exactly, is your point? There appears to be an effort from some quarters to paint responsible, compassionate public health measures as the first steps towards tyranny.

Is that what you are saying?

I would add the following: To those who equate current public health measures as unnecessary threats to liberty, what, exactly, would count as legitimate reasons for imposing constraints on people's liberty?

Say, for example, that wild lions were loosed on the city and that these lions sleep in the day but hunt people at night. Would you say that the imposition of a night-time curfew would constitute an infringement on your "liberty"?

Pommer · Apr 7, 2021

The Calgary Police Service release:

Benam · Apr 7, 2021

Fence goes up around Alta. church refusing to follow COVID-19 orders

EDMONTON -- A fence has been erected around an Alberta church after its congregation has met for months in violation of provincial COVID-19 orders.

Chain link fencing surrounded GraceLife Church and its parking lot in Parkland County west of Edmonton Wednesday morning.

Alberta Health Services said it "physically closed" the building and will be preventing access to it until GraceLife "can demonstrate the ability to comply with Alberta's Chief Medical Officer of Health's restrictions.

Pommer · Apr 7, 2021

Benam said:
Fence goes up around Alta. church refusing to follow COVID-19 orders

EDMONTON -- A fence has been erected around an Alberta church after its congregation has met for months in violation of provincial COVID-19 orders.

Chain link fencing surrounded GraceLife Church and its parking lot in Parkland County west of Edmonton Wednesday morning.

Alberta Health Services said it "physically closed" the building and will be preventing access to it until GraceLife "can demonstrate the ability to comply with Alberta's Chief Medical Officer of Health's restrictions.

Different Church...should be a new thread?

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