The Sizes of Australia and Greenland

Chesterton

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Wikipedia says the total area of Australia is 2,969,907 square miles, and the total area of Greenland is 836,330 square miles. So Australia is well over three times bigger, yet when you look at the Google Earth image or a map it looks the opposite. It looks like you could fit 3 or 4 Australias into Greenland.

Google

iu


What am I missing here?
 

sjastro

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Okay. Thank you. But why does that occur in satellite imagery? Does Google Mercatorize it?
Despite what flat Earthers tell you satellites are imaging a spherical surface.
The spherical surface data expressed as latitude and longitude is mapped to cylindrical coordinates which when 'unwrapped' gives the Mercator projection.

600px-Cylindrical_Projection_basics2.svg.png
 
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Chesterton

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The spherical surface data expressed as latitude and longitude is mapped to cylindrical coordinates which when 'unwrapped' gives the Mercator projection.
It can't be mapped to spherical coordinates?
 
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ViaCrucis

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It can't be mapped to spherical coordinates?

Unrolling a sphere into a plane doesn't work, and so maps are always approximations, and there are different methods to produce different types of projections: projecting the sphere onto a flat surface.

Mapping the image onto a cylinder and then unrolling the cylinder results in an aesthetically pleasing, though always heavily distorted, map.

That's how we get the famous Mercator projection. The Mercator is great for navigation, but it results in grotesque distortion of land size, as the example of Greenland vs Australia you provide demonstrates.

Another very classic projection is the Equirectangular projection,

800px-Equirectangular_projection_SW.jpg


Here the distances have been preserved, but the result is more distortion, with everything further away from the equator becoming squished and stretched out.

Peel an orange while trying to keep the whole thing in a single piece, and then try to lay it flat, you'll see that you can't do this and maintain a rectangular shape--it tears, it distorts.

That's what maps are attempting to do, and the result is always distortion--the question is simply what kind of distortion the map has.

Non-cylindrical based projections do exist, for example the following maps the sphere of the earth onto a polyhedron, and then is unfolded:

800px-Dymaxion_projection.png


This really just means that the only accurate "map" of the globe, is a globe.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Occams Barber

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It can't be mapped to spherical coordinates?


There are lots of different ways of mapping the Earth. Each has its own set of advantages and disadvantages and distortions. The problem is trying to depict a spherical, 3 dimensional shape onto a 2 dimensional flat page.
Top 10 World Map Projections – The Future Mapping Company (futuremaps.com)

Mercator Projection happens to be the most common version. If you look at the lines of longitude they come together at the poles. To convert from a globe to a flat 3d map, a Mercator Projection assumes longitudinal lines stay the same distance apart. This has the effect of making geographical areas appear bigger the closer they are to the Poles.

latitude-vs-longitude2.jpg


OB
 
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sjastro

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A familiar map projection is the Mollweide projection which trades accuracy of angle and shape for accuracy of proportions in area.

https%3A%2F%2Fblogs-images.forbes.com%2Fstartswithabang%2Ffiles%2F2016%2F02%2FMollweide-projection-1200x601.jpg

Astronomers use celestial coordinates one of which is the projection of latitude and longitude onto the sky and is expressed as declination and right ascension respectively.
As such astronomers also have to deal with map projections and the Mollweide projection is a favourite.

The Deep Sky.

https%3A%2F%2Fblogs-images.forbes.com%2Fstartswithabang%2Ffiles%2F2016%2F02%2Fallsky_mellinger_big-1200x800.jpg


A part of the Universe in our neighborhood.

https%3A%2F%2Fblogs-images.forbes.com%2Fstartswithabang%2Ffiles%2F2016%2F02%2F2MASS_LSS_chart-NEW_Nasa-1200x607.jpg


The Cosmic Microwave Background.

https%3A%2F%2Fblogs-images.forbes.com%2Fstartswithabang%2Ffiles%2F2015%2F11%2FPlanck_CMB-1200x600.jpg
 
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Chesterton

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This really just means that the only accurate "map" of the globe, is a globe.
I have this vague idea that a talented artist could look at a globe, and reproduce it accurately by hand on paper, even using no coordinates or measurements. Is that just not possible?
 
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ViaCrucis

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I have this vague idea that a talented artist could look at a globe, and reproduce it accurately by hand on paper, even using no coordinates or measurements. Is that just not possible?

It really isn't.

Try it yourself, peel an orange and try to turn the peel into a flat plane.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Occams Barber

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I have this vague idea that a talented artist could look at a globe, and reproduce it accurately by hand on paper, even using no coordinates or measurements. Is that just not possible?

The nearest you could probably get to an artistic rendering is a Robinson Projection.

This map is known as a ‘compromise’, it shows neither the shape or land mass of countries correct. Arthur Robinson developed it in 1963 using a more visual trial and error development. “I visualised the best-looking shapes and sizes. I worked with the variables, until it got to the point where, if I changed one of them, it didn’t get any better.” It was only at this point that he worked out the mathematical formula. The curved meridians, give it a nice spherical look.
2.Robinson.jpg


Top 10 World Map Projections – The Future Mapping Company (futuremaps.com)
OB
 
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ViaCrucis

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A number of years ago there was a website I used to really enjoy, it had a simple java applet that let you effectively change the angle of the earth to produce interesting looking maps. For example, showing Antarctica in the middle--it used an Equirectangular projection. Unfortunately the website stopped working after browsers began to abandon java support, and I lost the URL. But it was a lot of fun to play with as someone who generally likes maps, and also when playing around with world-building for fiction.

A bit of Googling did get me to this website, which shows what I'm talking about by moving the world around, showing how continent size and shape gets distorted:

Map Projections on the Web – Petrichor Geoviz Studio

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Occams Barber

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A number of years ago there was a website I used to really enjoy, it had a simple java applet that let you effectively change the angle of the earth to produce interesting looking maps. For example, showing Antarctica in the middle--it used an Equirectangular projection. Unfortunately the website stopped working after browsers began to abandon java support, and I lost the URL. But it was a lot of fun to play with as someone who generally likes maps, and also when playing around with world-building for fiction.

A bit of Googling did get me to this website, which shows what I'm talking about by moving the world around, showing how continent size and shape gets distorted:

Map Projections on the Web – Petrichor Geoviz Studio

-CryptoLutheran


I like this one:


It allows you to choose a country and then move it around the world to see how it compares in size to other countries/parts of the world. You can also compare US states with other parts of the world.

What is also obvious is that the country/state you choose gets bigger as you move it towards either Pole. Once again it's distortion caused by Mercator Projection.

OB
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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Chesterton

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Does the projection only occur between different land masses, or does it also occur within a single mass? Like, is the southern tip of South America shown as larger than it actually is relative to the portion of South America which is at the equator?
 
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ViaCrucis

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Does the projection only occur between different land masses, or does it also occur within a single mass? Like, is the southern tip of South America shown as larger than it actually is relative to the portion of South America which is at the equator?

Yes, which is why Canada looks way bigger than it is on the Mercator projection, and why Antarctica looks ridiculously enormous.

If you go to the website @Occams Barber linked to, you can select and move a country around and see how it grows and shrinks based on its distance from the equator.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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Yes, which is why Canada looks way bigger than it is on the Mercator projection, and why Antarctica looks ridiculously enormous.

If you go to the website @Occams Barber linked to, you can select and move a country around and see how it grows and shrinks based on its distance from the equator.

-CryptoLutheran

Examples:

Canada:
Canada.PNG


Argentina:
Argentina.PNG


CryptoLutheran
 
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