Was the 70th Week of Daniel Fulfilled during the First Century?

Douggg

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The individuals that I cited are those to whom Zechariah 12:10 specifically refers, the "they" who pierced Christ.

According to futurism, all "they" will be saved.

So according to futurism, we'll see Judas in heaven.

By ignoring Jesus' words in John 17:12.
The ones you are citing are first century generation. The ones in Zechariah 12 are the parable of the fig tree generation. i.e. the end times, time of the end, latter days, latter years generation.
 
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Douggg

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I am amazed at how Paul's words in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 can be redefined.

No second chances at salvation are found in any of the passages referred to in your last post.


Mar_7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
I haven't been saying anything about a second chance. Nor about two peoples of God.
 
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mkgal1

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That the Jews, Israel, will turn to Jesus in the middle of the 7 years is in Revelation 12:10.
This is what *happened* (Scripture is fulfilled) in "the middle of the seven years"

27 AD (Jesus was anointed for His mission). This begins the 70th week.

30 AD - the Resurrection is "the middle of the 70th week".

 
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Douggg

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Did you infer a large number of modern Orthodox Jews will come to salvation at Christ's Second Coming, based on Zechariah 12:10?

.
Based on Zechariah 12 and Revelation 12:10 and Revelation 12:17 and Zechariah 14 and Ezekiel 39:21-29.
 
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BABerean2

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Based on Zechariah 12 and Revelation 12:10 and Revelation 12:17 and Zechariah 14 and Ezekiel 39:21-29.

Either Christ was confused in the parable of the virgins found in Matthew 25:1-13, and the Apostle Paul was confused in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, or you are confused.

.
 
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Douggg

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This is what happened in "the middle of the seven years"

27 AD (Jesus was anointed for His mission). This begins the 70th week.

30 AD - the Resurrection is "the middle of the 70th week".

Jesus came to die for the sins of the world. His body was anointed for burial by the woman in Bethany, before going into Jerusalem to be crucified.

Mark 14:8 She hath done what she could: she is come aforehand to anoint my body to the burying.

The 7 years are still unfulfilled. They are the 7 years in Ezekiel 39, that precede Armageddon in Ezekiel 39:17-20 with Jesus Himself speaking in v21-29 having returned to this earth (in the future).
 
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Douggg

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Either Christ was confused in the parable of the virgins found in Matthew 25:1-13, and the Apostle Paul was confused in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, or you are confused.

.
classic either/or fallacy in logic.
 
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jgr

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The ones you are citing are first century generation. The ones in Zechariah 12 are the parable of the fig tree generation. i.e. the end times, time of the end, latter days, latter years generation.

Judas et al pierced Christ, as Zechariah 12:10 describes.

No one else in the end times will have pierced Him.

Zechariah's description specifically includes Judas et al. They are Jews, all of whom futurism claims will be saved. Zechariah draws no distinction between Judas et al, and end time Jews. That is interpretation by imagination.

Christ also includes Judas. He is a lost son of perdition.

Futurism is once again caught between a rock and hard place of its futurized fantasy and fallacy.

Zechariah said nothing about a fig tree. That is a futurist figment, pun intended.

But Jesus did.

He cursed it.

A fitting symbol indeed upon which to base delusional doctrine.
 
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mkgal1

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The 7 years are still unfulfilled.
The seven years were Jesus' ministry on earth.

John the baptizer baptized Jesus in the Jordan River in 26/27 AD......Jesus was crucified in 30 AD.....those years (and the 3.5 years following) fulfilled quite a bit (unless a person rejects the significance - but why would someone like that self identity as "Christian", I wonder?). To assert that those years didn't happen is denying historical fact (edited - specifically the historical facts regarding Jesus of Nazareth that even Atheist historians believe took place during those years).

ETA: Quoting from NatGeo (which is not a religious site, by the way):
When Jesus was about 30 years old, he waded into the Jordan River with the Jewish firebrand John the Baptist and, according to New Testament accounts, underwent a life-changing experience. Rising from the water, he saw the Spirit of God descend on him “like a dove” and heard the voice of God proclaim, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.” The divine encounter launched Jesus on a preaching and healing mission that began in Galilee and ended, three years later, with his execution in Jerusalem. ~ What Archaeology Is Telling Us About the Real Jesus

Quoting from description of the book Zealot, written by Muslim historian/author/scholar, Reza Aslan:

From the internationally bestselling author of No god but God comes a fascinating, provocative end meticulously researched biography that challenges long-held assumptions about the man we know as Jesus of Nazareth. Two thousand years ago, an itinerant Jewish preacher from Galilee launched a revolutionary movement proclaiming the "Kingdom of God", and threatened the established order of first-century Palestine. Defying both Imperial Rome and its collaborators in the Jewish religious hierarchy, he was captured, tortured and executed as a state criminal. Within decades, his followers would call him the Son of God. Sifting through centuries of mythmaking, Reza Aslan sheds new light on one of history's most influential and enigmatic figures by examining Jesus within the context of the times in which he lived: the age of zealotry, an era awash in apocalyptic fervor, when scores of Jewish prophets and would-be messiahs wandered the Holy Land bearing messages from God. They also espoused a fervent nationalism that made resistance to Roman occupation a sacred duty. Balancing the Jesus of the Gospels against historical sources, Aslan describes a complex gure: a man of peace who exhorted his followers to arm themselves; an exorcist and faith healer who urged his disciples to keep his identity secret; and the seditious 'King of the Jews' ~ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JUJH7C6/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1


ETA quote from Britanica (another secular history site):

Jesus, also called Jesus Christ, Jesus of Galilee, or Jesus of Nazareth, (born c. 6–4 BCE, Bethlehem—died c. 30 CE, Jerusalem), religious leader revered in Christianity, one of the world’s major religions. He is regarded by most Christians as the Incarnation of God. The history of Christian reflection on the teachings and nature of Jesus is examined in the article Christology. ~ Jesus | Facts, Teachings, Miracles, Death, & Doctrines
 
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Oseas

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The cosmos, universe, are the second heaven - i.e. the place of the stars you look up at night and see in the sky when it is clear.

Cosmos? what you wrote are silly things, nonsense. What you are spreading has nothing to do with the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD. GOD is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth. He is very very near.

What prevails is the Word of GOD. Isaiah 40:v.21 - 23

21 Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?

22 GOD is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in: (The heavens are planted here on the Earth by the Word of the Most High GOD - Isaiah 51:v.16. Check it out).


23 That bringeth the princes to nothing; he maketh the judges of the earth as vanity.

What you are spreading is fool presumption, it is fake and deceptive, in the way the Devil likes.

You have no knowledge of the Scriptures, you believe and spread what you have learned from false interpreters of the Scriptures, which Paul Apostle called ministers of Satan in his epistle to the brothers in Christ of Corinthians.
2 Corinthians 11: v.13 to 15

And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more ... Revelation 20:v.1-3
 
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Oseas

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When Satan and his angels are cast down to earth from that realm, it says that the will have no place there any more. v8 is talking about the second heaven. Which, later, at the end of the time/times/half time will be pulled aside like the curtain on a stage, rolled up like a scroll.

You know not what is heaven.
What you have said above is good for nothing, except to deceive the unwary, what you wrote are silly things, nonsense, so they have nothing to do with the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD.

Get ready
 
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Oseas

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When Satan and his angels are cast down to earth from that realm, it says that the will have no place there any more. v8 is talking about the second heaven. Which, later, at the end of the time/times/half time will be pulled aside like the curtain on a stage, rolled up like a scroll.

In what planet are the seven(7) heads of Satan, the Old Serpent, called the Devil, and now in the time of Apocalypse his new name is red Dragon?

In what planet are the ten (10) horns of Satan? And his satanic TAIL-as is written in Isaiah 9:v.15-16? Where is it?

Aren't you of his planet? Whom did JESUS speak of, Satan is the father?
 
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Oseas

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The cosmos, universe, are the second heaven - i.e. the place of the stars you look up at night and see in the sky when it is clear.

When Satan and his angels are cast down to earth from that realm, it says that the will have no place there any more. v8 is talking about the second heaven. Which, later, at the end of the time/times/half time will be pulled aside like the curtain on a stage, rolled up like a scroll.

JESUS said: Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?
 
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Spiritual Jew

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John 5 and John 11 is witness to Jesus as the Resurrection and life, even before the Cross.

In Acts 26, Paul was quoting the OT. Paul was not claiming anything about Lazarus. According to Matthew 27, those in their graves came out bodily at the Cross. They did not have to wait either. Are you going to rewrite the Gospels by one verse in Acts? A verse that quotes the OT? I thought using the OT to interpret the NT was not allowed?
What difference does it make if Acts 26:23 is referring to an OT prophecy? It looks like you are trying to avoid answering the question and not accepting what Acts 26:23 says. It says that Christ was the first to rise from the dead. You can't change that.

In what sense was He the first to rise from the dead then? It doesn't take much discernment to know that it means He was the first to rise from the dead with an immortal body. Why can't you acknowledge that? Instead, you're trying to take Acts 26:23 out of the Bible without acknowledging what it says. And it's not the only verse that says He was the first to rise from the dead (1 Cor 15:20, Rev 1:5, etc.).

Besides the death burial and resurrection happened before Creation. God does not need to wait for a particular moment in human history. Revelation 13:8
No, that is false. God may have planned for it to happen before creation, but it actually happened almost 2,000 years ago. It literally happened then, so there's no point to try to say otherwise just because you wish to try to keep your doctrine afloat. Scripture teaches that Jesus Christ was the first to rise from the dead with an immortal body. You need to adjust your understanding of the resurrection of the dead accordingly.

Paul clearly taught that we all will be changed at the last trumpet, including the dead in Christ and those who are alive at the time. That contradicts your false view that people are already in heaven with immortal bodies. No, only Jesus has an immortal body right now. Paul taught that when He comes those who are dead and belong to Christ will be resurrected (1 Cor 15:22-23) and they will then be changed have immortal bodies as well as those believers who are alive at that time (1 Cor 15:50-54).
 
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Spiritual Jew

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Many people raised from the dead in OT and during Christ's ministry before the cross.

And that includes Moses in Matt 17

Acts 26:
23 that the Christ was to suffer, and that by reason of His resurrection from the dead He would be the first to proclaim light both to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles.” NASB 1995


26:23 εἰ παθητὸς ὁ Χριστός εἰ πρῶτος ἐξ ἀναστάσεως νεκρῶν φῶς μέλλει καταγγέλλειν τῷ τε λαῷ καὶ τοῖς ἔθνεσιν

First resurrected person "to proclaim light both to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles.”

====================

YLT that the Christ is to suffer, whether first by a rising from the dead, he is about to proclaim light to the people and to the nations.'
That is not what that verse means. In 1 Corinthians 15, Paul made it clear that Christ was the first to be resurrected unto bodily immortality (1 Cor 15:22-23) and then when He comes at the last trumpet those who belong to Him will be resurrected unto bodily immortality as well. There is no indication that anyone but Christ has an immortal body yet. If they did then what Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15:22-23 and 1 Corinthians 15:50-55 would be false.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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Based on Zechariah 12 and Revelation 12:10 and Revelation 12:17 and Zechariah 14 and Ezekiel 39:21-29.
Are these unbelieving Jews who you think will be saved when Christ returns somehow not among "those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus"?

2 Thess 1:6 God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you 7 and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might 10 on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.

Why would Jewish unbelievers not be included among "those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus" but all other unbelievers would be? Do you believe God is a respecter of persons (shows favoritism based on nationality or ethnicity)? Will what Paul taught in the following passage somehow not apply on the day Christ returns?

Romans 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
 
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BobRyan

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BobRyan said:
Many people raised from the dead in OT and during Christ's ministry before the cross.

And that includes Moses in Matt 17

Acts 26:
23 that the Christ was to suffer, and that by reason of His resurrection from the dead He would be the first to proclaim light both to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles.” NASB 1995

26:23 εἰ παθητὸς ὁ Χριστός εἰ πρῶτος ἐξ ἀναστάσεως νεκρῶν φῶς μέλλει καταγγέλλειν τῷ τε λαῷ καὶ τοῖς ἔθνεσιν

First resurrected person "to proclaim light both to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles.”

====================

YLT:> that the Christ is to suffer, whether first by a rising from the dead, he is about to proclaim light to the people and to the nations.'

There is no indication that anyone but Christ has an immortal body yet. If they did then what Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15:22-23 and 1 Corinthians 15:50-55 would be false.

There is every indication that Moses and Elijah were standing "in glory" with Christ - in Matt 17 before the cross even happened.

All three of them appear together - all three had bodies... in fact Elijah never died. Only Moses is up for debate there - and Jude makes it clear that the book called "The Assumption of Moses" can be trusted in its detail about the dispute over the bodily resurrection of Moses where Satan lost.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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BobRyan said:
Many people raised from the dead in OT and during Christ's ministry before the cross.
That doesn't mean they had immortal bodies, though. They all died again.

And that includes Moses in Matt 17

Acts 26:
23 that the Christ was to suffer, and that by reason of His resurrection from the dead He would be the first to proclaim light both to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles.” NASB 1995

26:23 εἰ παθητὸς ὁ Χριστός εἰ πρῶτος ἐξ ἀναστάσεως νεκρῶν φῶς μέλλει καταγγέλλειν τῷ τε λαῷ καὶ τοῖς ἔθνεσιν

First resurrected person "to proclaim light both to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles.”

====================

YLT:> that the Christ is to suffer, whether first by a rising from the dead, he is about to proclaim light to the people and to the nations.'



There is every indication that Moses and Elijah were standing "in glory" with Christ - in Matt 17 before the cross even happened.
Every indication? Where are you getting that from? There is no indication at all that they had immortal bodies. It certainly doesn't say that. Jesus made it so that they could be seen by Peter, James and John but that doesn't mean they had to have immortal bodies for that to be the case. Why does John say that he sees the souls of dead believers in heaven in Rev 6:9-11 and Rev 20 if they have bodies?

If some people, besides Jesus, already have immortal bodies, then tell me how you interpret these passages:

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Don't "they that are Christ's" include OT saints? Of course they do. So, why do you have them being bodily resurrected before Christ's second coming, which contradicts what Paul taught?

1 Corinthians 15:50
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Paul indicates here that all believers, including the resurrected dead in Christ, will be changed at the last trumpet, which has not yet occurred. Yet, you have some already being changed long ago. Again, why are you contradicting what Paul taught?

If Christ wasn't the first to rise from the dead with an immortal body, then that would lessen the significance of His resurrection. It would mean that Lazarus or someone else already conquered death before He did. Jesus is the only one with an immortal body.

Paul clearly taught that Christ's resurrection was the first and that there is an order to them. The first in what sense then? You try to explain away Acts 26:23. Will you do that with 1 Cor 15:20-23 as well since Paul indicated there that His resurrection was the first? In what sense was it the first then? We know it wasn't literally the first resurrection since others, like Lazarus, had been resurrected previously. So, His resurrection was clearly the first unto bodily immortality.
 
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