Was the 70th Week of Daniel Fulfilled during the First Century?

Douggg said:

The 144,000 will proselytize the rest of Israel, after the two witness's are gone.

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Quite the contrary, Douggg. Quite the contrary. They will be persecuted. Revelation 12:v.17 -

17 And the dragon - Revelation 13:v.11 to 18 - was wroth with the woman, and went to make WAR with the remnant of her seed - Revelation 7 and 14:v.1 - , which keep the commandments of GOD, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

JESUS warned them (and warned us too): - Matthew 24:v.15 to 28
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand).

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.


Revelation 12:v.12 to 17
12 ... Woe to the inhabiters of the earth(Israel) and of the sea!(the Gentile nations)for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth (by the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD and is Truth)- , he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make WAR with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the *testimony of
Jesus Christ.

* the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Be careful or get ready

Douggg said:

It is talking about the Jewish people overall.

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Of course. And there were none more "Jewish overall" than Judas, Caiaphas, and the Sanhedrin.

So according to futurism, that qualifies them all for salvation in Zechariah 12:10.

So we'll see 'em all in heaven.

But Jesus disagrees regarding Judas:

John 17:12
While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

So is Judas saved according to Zechariah 12:10, or is he lost according to John 17:12?

What does a futurist say?

BABerean2 said:

Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

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Do you see any second chances at salvation in the passage above?

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Corresponds to the armies that gather at Armageddon, then come down and surround Jerusalem and the temple mount that day.....

Those armies will be awestruck by Jesus's descent down to earth, in great power and glory, and the host of angels and glorified saints.

The statue image of the beast will burst into flames, brought to ashes and Satan exposed on the temple mount. All looking on will be dumbfounded. Then the beast and the false prophet will be cast alive into the lake of fire as the armies look on. I show a great portal opening with a vortex, on my pictorial.

Then after those two are cast into the lake of fire, and Satan exposed on the temple mount for the whole world to see him physically, visibly, Jesus destroys the armies that had gathered to make war on him. Which is the 2Thessalonians1:8 passage you referenced.


Revelation 19:21 And the remnant (i.e. the armies, the beast and the false prophet are destroyed the previous verse v20) were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

jgr said:

Of course. And there were none more "Jewish overall" than Judas, Caiaphas, and the Sanhedrin.

So according to futurism, that qualifies them all for salvation in Zechariah 12:10.

So we'll see 'em all in heaven.

But Jesus disagrees regarding Judas:

John 17:12
While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

So is Judas saved according to Zechariah 12:10, or is he lost according to John 17:12?

What does a futurist say?

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Zechariah 12 is end times, the parable of the fig tree generation. The nation of Israel, the Jews, who finally produce fruit, when they come to believe in Jesus in the middle of the seven years.

The individuals that you cited are first century, not time of the end.

Douggg said:

The Jews, Israel, will all turn to Jesus in the middle in the seven years.

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What you are sowing by your interpretation is FAKE. Yes, FAKE. By the way, there will be war between Michael and the Dragon: Revelation 12:v.7:
7 Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels. And Revelation 3:v. 9 says: Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do LIE; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

Are you linked to that synagogue?

What JESUS prophesied, fulfilled LITERALLY in the year 70 AD. Jerusalem was destroyed, a bath blood occurred in the destruction of Israel, more than 100 K died, a multitude of survivors were scattered around the world, they were banned from their land, they lost even their nation, and were punished severely from year 70 until 1,948 AD, it means they suffered strong punishments AND DESOLATION during 1,878 years, in LITERAL fulfillment of the words according was preached by Moses to the people of Israel in Deuteronomy 28:v.15 to 68. Check it out. THE WORD IS GOD.


See one among many others great debates or discussions between JESUS
and the Jews, as follows - John 8: v.12 to 51

JESUS - 31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on Him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

The JEWS - 33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?


JESUS - 34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.


The JEWS 39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father.
JESUS -Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41 Ye do the deeds of your father.
The JEWS - Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.


JESUS - 42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but He sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the Devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

THE WORD IS GOD

Douggg said:

The Jews, Israel, will all turn to Jesus in the middle in the seven years. Revelation 12:10.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

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The Scriptures you quoted above have nothing to do with your message, that is what you said from you in the post; but in fact they have with Revelation 11:v. 15 to 18.

You try to adapt Scriptures to your suppositions, and conjectures, and opinions, and guessing, what is very very danger.

Be careful or get ready

Oseas said:

Quite the contrary, Douggg. Quite the contrary. They will be persecuted. Revelation 12:v.17 -

17 And the dragon - Revelation 13:v.11 to 18 - was wroth with the woman, and went to make WAR with the remnant of her seed - Revelation 7 and 14:v.1 - , which keep the commandments of GOD, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

JESUS warned them (and warned us too): - Matthew 24:v.15 to 28
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand).

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.


Revelation 12:v.12 to 17
12 ... Woe to the inhabiters of the earth(Israel) and of the sea!(the Gentile nations)for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth (by the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD and is Truth)- , he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make WAR with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the *testimony of
Jesus Christ.

* the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Be careful or get ready

Click to expand...

Oseas, the remnant in v17 are the Jews who do not heed Jesus's word to flee into the wilderness right away. By not doing so, they will be captive in that day, and persecuted by Satan, via the beast, the false prophet and the contingency of evil men siding with the beast and false prophet.

Douggg said:

The individuals that you cited are first century, not time of the end.

Click to expand...

The first century was the time of the end and the beginning of a new era.

Oseas said:

What you are sowing by your interpretation is FAKE. Yes, FAKE. By the way, there will be war between Michael and the Dragon: Revelation 12:v.7:
7 Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels. And Revelation 3:v. 9 says: Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do LIE; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

Are you linked to that synagogue?

What JESUS prophesied, fulfilled LITERALLY in the year 70 AD. Jerusalem was destroyed, a bath blood occurred in the destruction of Israel, more than 100 K died, a multitude of survivors were scattered around the world, they were banned from their land, they lost even their nation, and were punished severely from year 70 until 1,948 AD, it means they suffered strong punishments AND DESOLATION during 1,878 years, in LITERAL fulfillment of the words according was preached by Moses to the people of Israel in Deuteronomy 28:v.15 to 68. Check it out. THE WORD IS GOD.


See one among many others great debates or discussions between JESUS
and the Jews, as follows - John 8: v.12 to 51

JESUS - 31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on Him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

The JEWS - 33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?


JESUS - 34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.


The JEWS 39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father.
JESUS -Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41 Ye do the deeds of your father.
The JEWS - Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.


JESUS - 42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but He sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the Devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

THE WORD IS GOD



The Scriptures you quoted above have nothing to do with your message, that is what you said from you in the post; but in fact they have with Revelation 11:v. 15 to 18.

You try to adapt Scriptures to your suppositions, and conjectures, and opinions, and guessing, what is very very danger.

Be careful or get ready

Click to expand...

Oseas, v7-9 of Revelation 12 is yet to be fulfilled. It is end times, in the middle part of the 7 years, corresponding to Michael standing up for the Jewish people in Daniel 12:1.

The war in heaven in v7-9 is referring to the second heaven, the cosmos. Not the third heaven where God's throne is, and the righteous dwell.

That the Jews turn to Jesus is v10.

myst33 said:

The first century was the time of the end and the beginning of a new era.

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The end of the age is when Satan and his angels' mystical kingdom of Babylon the great is destroyed - ending their influence, evil and violence they have trafficked in.

Douggg said:

The end of the age is when Satan and his angels' mystical kingdom of Babylon the great is destroyed - ending their influence, evil and violence they have trafficked in.

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Have you noticed in how different world we live now? How many things have changed?

All pagan gods of their times are forgotten, technology and science is giving us power like magic, will prolong our lives, we will colonize other planets etc. They would not believe if you would describe this to them, they would think you came from a paradise or you are a half-god.

Not to say all the changes in the spiritual reality like that we never die, no sleep in sheol. We are transformed so we just leave our bodies and continue our existence, as proved by the NDE.

Douggg said:

Zechariah 12 is end times, the parable of the fig tree generation. The nation of Israel, the Jews, who finally produce fruit, when they come to believe in Jesus in the middle of the seven years.

The individuals that you cited are first century, not time of the end.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that the point of time this group actually comes to believe is limited to a narrow time frame?

What do you do with Saul/Paul of Tarsus? He was certainly living in the 1st century.....do you dismiss him as being a member of the "elect"? Do you not consider him (Saul/Paul) as a Jew that produced fruit?

The 1st century *was* the time of the end (the final ending of the Mosaic Covenant and the temporary Temple system.). Christianity (the Resurrection movement) is the continuance of biblical Judaism.

This study, I believe, would be beneficial for all in this thread. Here is a link to view the first 4 video sessions for free. I'd strongly encourage everyone in this thread to watch:

BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 150 versions and 50 languages.: Landing

When you first click on the link above, a box to sign up for the study will appear. You can just ignore that, as it will go away quickly and you will then have access to the video.

Douggg said:

The individuals that you cited are first century, not time of the end.

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The individuals that I cited are those to whom Zechariah 12:10 specifically refers, the "they" who pierced Christ.

According to futurism, all "they" will be saved.

So according to futurism, we'll see Judas in heaven.

By ignoring Jesus' words in John 17:12.

Douggg said:

Zechariah 12 is end times, the parable of the fig tree generation. The nation of Israel, the Jews, who finally produce fruit, when they come to believe in Jesus in the middle of the seven years.

Click to expand...

Since Abraham's DNA is ubiquitous within the entirety of humanity, the entirety of humanity are Jews.

So according to futurism, the entirety of humanity will "come to believe in Jesus".

AKA the ancient heresy of universalism.

Example of the mathematical confirmation of ancestral genetic ubiquity

Abraham lineage
DNA Tests Could Fulfill God’s Promise to Abraham by Revealing Millions of Jews. But How Jewish is Jewish Enough?
Israel in all of Us? Research finds 'Jewish genes' in unusual places
Jewish-Roots Arabs in Israel
Tracing the lost tribes to Jewish communities in Africa
Nigeria's Igbo Jews: 'Lost tribe' of Israel? - CNN
http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/...-africa-has-jewish-roots-genetic-tests-reveal
https://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/...her-claims-proof-of-tribe-of-Ephraim-in-India
https://www.jta.org/2013/05/23/life...bush-bani-israel-tribe-claims-jewish-heritage

Douggg said:

Oseas, v7-9 of Revelation 12 is yet to be fulfilled. It is end times, in the middle part of the 7 years, corresponding to Michael standing up for the Jewish people in Daniel 12:1.

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Who will cast Satan with his 7 satanic heads, and his devilish 10 horns, and his legion of messengers -the TAIL - , false preachers of the Word of GOD, that is the TAIL of the Dragon, as is written in Isaiah 9:v.15 and 16, a legion of messengers of the Devil - 2 Corinthians 11: v.13-15 - yeah, who will fight against them is Michael and those which fight with him - Revelation 12:v.7- .

They fight, and will fight, against the red Dragon, that is the old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceives the whole world together his legion (as such as we can see even in the forums and in died churches, and sects, etc., ). But Satan was (will be) cast out (of the heavenly places) to the earth, and his angels were (will also be) cast out with him.

2 Corinthians 11:v. 13-15
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers (ministers of Satan, fallen angels of died churches, and many of their followers-Revelation 3:v.17-18) also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose END shall be according to their works.

For the true Christians/believers wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high - in heavenly - places.

Douggg said:

The war in heaven in v7-9 is referring to the second heaven, the cosmos

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Cosmos? You are a mocker Douggg, and what you say has nothing to do with the Word of God, but with doctrines of demons. Are you in which orbit of the cosmos? What is the name of the meteor you are spiritually traveling with at the moment?

Douggg said:

Oseas, the remnant in v17 are the Jews who do not heed Jesus's word to flee into the wilderness right away. By not doing so, they will be captive in that day, and persecuted by Satan, via the beast, the false prophet and the contingency of evil men siding with the beast and false prophet.

Click to expand...

What prevails is the true Word of GOD, not the doctrines of demons in which you are believing and spreading, because you believe not in the Truth of GOD.

jgr said:

Since Abraham's DNA is ubiquitous within the entirety of humanity, the entirety of humanity are Jews.

So according to futurism, the entirety of humanity will "come to believe in Jesus".

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Read what it says in Ezekiel 39:21-29.

mkgal1 said:

I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that the point of time this group actually comes to believe is limited to a narrow time frame?

What do you do with Saul/Paul of Tarsus? He was certainly living in the 1st century.....do you dismiss him as being a member of the "elect"? Do you not consider him (Saul/Paul) as a Jew that produced fruit?

The 1st century *was* the time of the end (the final ending of the Mosaic Covenant and the temporary Temple system.). Christianity (the Resurrection movement) is the continuance of biblical Judaism.

Click to expand...

That the Jews, Israel, will turn to Jesus in the middle of the 7 years is in Revelation 12:10.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

_____________________________________________________

Paul was one of the elect, i.e. a label for the Jews, Israel. Paul had become a Christian, and preached with intensity that the others Jews, Israel, would become Christians as well.

Oseas said:

Cosmos? You are a mocker Douggg, and what you say has nothing to do with the Word of God, but with doctrines of demons. Are you in which orbit of the cosmos? What is the name of the meteor you are spiritually traveling with at the moment?

Click to expand...

The cosmos, universe, are the second heaven - i.e. the place of the stars you look up at night and see in the sky when it is clear.

When Satan and his angels are cast down to earth from that realm, it says that the will have no place there any more. v8 is talking about the second heaven. Which, later, at the end of the time/times/half time will be pulled aside like the curtain on a stage, rolled up like a scroll.

Revelation 12:
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.