AMAZING FUN FACTS ON GOD'S 4th COMMANDMENT AND SUNDAY WORSHIP!

SabbathBlessings · Apr 5, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
THIS IS MY TESTIMONY

Your experience is much different to mine. I was not brought up in the SDA Church like you were so I never knew anything about it or did I know anything about it when I was in the world. I became SDA some time latter after finding it through the scriptures of Gods' Word. I did not find God's Word either by EGW or any other book. I started reading the bible after not knowing about God living in the world. Although when I was very young I went to Sunday school. When I was reading the bible one day I came across some scripture that troubled me.

The scriptures were talking about the last days just before Jesus returned and it said that in these last days there will be many false prophets and false Christs that if it was possible they shall deceive Gods' very elect (Matthew 24:24). At the time I read these scriptures I was not going to any Church.

I was just reading my bible at home but they troubled me very much at that time I remember because I was thinking of going out to join a Church somewhere but I did not know which one. When I read these scriptures in Matthew 24:24 I believe God showed me their interpretation at that time as in the last days before He returns there would be many false prophets being messengers or teachers claiming they were from God that have false teachings and that the false Christs represented false Christian Churches (e.g. Christ being the head of the body which is the church - Ephesians 5:23; Colossians 1:18) and that many would be lost by following what these Churches were teachings.

Then as I was considering these scriptures one day, I believe God showed me all the Churches of the world all professing to be the chosen ones of God. Today in a recent consensus I remember reading that there is today somewhere around 30-40,000 different Churches all professing to be Gods true Church that have the truth of Gods' Word? Now I do no know how true those figures are but to me even if there was 20 churches all professing to be Gods' true Church that is 19 too many right?

So I was troubled because I did not want to follow false teachings and be lost to God. I prayed to God saying dear God help me. How am I going to know who your true Church is? I barely know your word and how am I ever going to find who your true Church is? I wanted to follow God but I knew I was never going to find Him if he did not help me and if he did not help me it would be impossible for me to find the truth of His Word. Looking back now with tears in my eyes I see how God answered my prayers and was with me guiding me and teaching me through His Word.

Not long after I prayed to God, as I was continuing reading His Word I came across a promises from His Word that really helped me to have faith. These promises seemed to speak to me again just like the scripture from Matthew 24:24 that troubled me into thinking how am I ever going to know the truth of God's Word?

These scriptures that really spoke to me next were...

John 14:26 [26], But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I have said to you.

John 16:13 [13], However, when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.

John 7:17 [17], If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

John 8:31-32 [31], Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If you continue in my word, then are you my disciples indeed, [32], And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

....................

When I read these scriptures, it was like God knew my thoughts and how I was feeling and was talking to me through his Word personally. I now had hope and was happy and relieved that God promises to be my guide and teacher to help me to know the truth of His Word and that I did not need to be worried if I trusted Him about being deceived into not knowing what His truth is. I knew I had a part to play and that was to seek Him and claim His promises through His Word (John 8:31-36).

I started claiming His promises above as I was reading His Word and slowly but surely started learning more of His Word. I asked God, praying dear God thank you for these promises but who is your true Church? I know I cannot find who your true Church is unless you guide me and teach me and show me who they are?

I continued over some time reading God's Word and found these scriptures which seemed to stay with me that seemed to describe who Gods Church was according to the scriptures here...

[1.] God’s people are described as God’s sheep that hear believe and follow Gods Word *John 10:26-27

[2.] God’s people are described as God’s saints that keep the commandments of God and the faith or teachings of Jesus *Revelation 14:12.

[3.] God’s people are described as those who the dragon (devil) is making war with because they keep the commandments of God *Revelation 12:17

[4.] God’s people are described as having the testimony of JESUS which is the Spirit of Prophecy. They know the end day prophecies *Revelation 19:10

[5.] God’s people are described as being blessed because they washed their robes in the blood of the lamb *1 Peter 1:18-19; Revelation 7:14; Revelation 12:11; Revelation 22:14

[6.] God’s people are described as being blessed because they keep Gods commandments and receive eternal life *Revelation 22:14

[7.] God’s people are described as being born again and do not practice sin (breaking Gods’ commandments) *1 John 3:6-9

[8.] The different between the children of God and the children of the devil is that the children of God do not practice sin (breaking God’s commandments) and the children of the devil do *1 John 3:6-10.

……………………….

The question we all must consider is how do we know we know God and are Gods saints according to the scriptures? Well Gods saints are in every Church who are living up to all the light of the knowledge of Gods’ Word that God has revealed to them and in times of ignorance when we do not know any better God winks at but when God gives us a knowledge of His Word he calls all men everywhere to believe and follow it *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; James 4:17.

Many do not know that the religious teachers of the world of fallen away from God’s Word in order to follow man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God. BABYLON is described as being fallen. The mother church and her daughters *Revelation 14:8; Revelation 17:1-5. She has changed times and law *Danial 7:25 and supplanted her own day of worship for which there is no scripture in place of God’s 4th commandment which is one of God’s 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4.

God has his people in all of these Church’s and is calling his people out of Babylon from following the traditions and teachings of men back to the pure Word of God. *Revelation 18:1-5. The hour is coming and now is that the true worshipers will worship God in Spirit and in truth. God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth. *John 10:16; John 4:23-24.

What is the test to know if we know God?

1 John 2:3-4 [3], And HEREBY WE KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS.

[4], HE THAT SAITH, I KNOW HIM, AND KEEPETH NOT HIS COMMANDMENTS, IS A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM

In times of ignorance God winks at but when he gives us a knowledge of the truth of his Word calls all men everywhere to believe and follow. God’s sheep hear His voice (the Word) and follow it.

...............

SUMMARY: I became a Sabbath keeper and SDA because I believe God guided me to this Church through His Word and this is my testimony! God's Church through faith according to the scriptures keep all the commandments of God not some of them according to the scriptures and this is the difference between 99% of all the Churches of the Word. - YES the Sabbath of God's 4th commandment! 99% of the Churches of the Word are not following God's Word. God is calling His people out to return to His Word and follow Him in Spirit and in truth *Revelation 18:4

Hope this is helpful

Thanks for sharing your testimony. It was very moving and inspiring! I know a lot of similar stories from other SDA members. Praise God, He is so good! God bless

Bob S · Apr 6, 2021

Indeed Bob, It does not make sense that there would be a plan of salvation before man sinned as there was nothing to be saved from. If your asking did God know that man was going to sin well of course he did, he is God and knows the end from the beginning and always had a plan for mans salvation *1 Peter 1:18-20

It doesn't make any sense???, then why did you then write: "he is God and knows the end from the beginning and always had a plan for mans' salvation"??? Like all of your posts you put down the poster first and then tell the poster your rendition of what you believe is the truth. The problem this time is that after putting me down you then agreed with what I wrote. By the way, SDAs have told me that Ellen later corrected when the plan began. The problem there is that those who read her account that the plan was made after the fall of man and never read her correction would have continued to believe a falsehood.

"Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began" (2 Timothy 1:9).

LoveGodsWord · Apr 6, 2021

Bob S said: ↑ LGW, was the plan of salvation after man sinned as EGW wrote so plainly?

Your response here...

LoveGodsWord wrote: Indeed Bob, It does not make sense that there would be a plan of salvation before man sinned as there was nothing to be saved from. If your asking did God know that man was going to sin well of course he did, he is God and knows the end from the beginning and always had a plan for mans salvation *1 Peter 1:18-20

Your response

Bob S said:
It doesn't make any sense???, then why did you then write: "he is God and knows the end from the beginning and always had a plan for mans' salvation"??? Like all of your posts you put down the poster first and then tell the poster your rendition of what you believe is the truth. The problem this time is that after putting me down you then agreed with what I wrote. By the way, SDAs have told me that Ellen later corrected when the plan began. The problem there is that those who read her account that the plan was made after the fall of man and never read her correction would have continued to believe a falsehood. "Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began" (2 Timothy 1:9).

I think you may have a misunderstanding as to what is posted earlier Bob. Firstly I was not putting you down or anything that you have said down at all. Secondly I only stated what is in scripture and that is that although God knows the end from the beginning and he prepared for mankind's fall into sin and prepared a plan of salvation there was no plan of salvation implemented until after the fall when mankind sinned against God and needed God's salvation. So as you can see this is the same position EGW states. She never says anywhere that God did not have a plan of salvation before the fall and I can pull up other quotes from her showing that she says God did have a plan of salvation before mankind fell into sin so you stating otherwise is not true. So to state that EGW is disagreeing with 1 Peter 1:18-20 that I quoted earlier or 2 Timothy 1:9 is not in agreement with what the quote is saying. So tell me do you want to talk scriptures now and discuss the OP?

Bob S · Apr 6, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Your response here...

Your response
I think you may have a misunderstanding as to what is posted earlier Bob. Firstly I was not putting you down or anything that you have said down at all.

Of course, you didn't. You never do anything wrong according to you.

Secondly I only stated what is in scripture and that is that although God knows the end from the beginning and he prepared for mankind's fall into sin and prepared a plan of salvation there was no plan of salvation implemented until after the fall when mankind sinned against God and needed God's salvation.

Oh! so now you add to your statement the word "implemented". The problem is that was not what you wrote. You must think that I am so stupid that I cannot decipher what you write. You wrote the following: "Indeed Bob, It does not make sense that there would be a plan of salvation before man sinned as there was nothing to be saved from."

So as you can see this is the same position EGW states. She never says anywhere that God did not have a plan of salvation before the fall and I can pull up other quotes from her showing that she says God did have a plan of salvation before mankind fell into sin so you stating otherwise is not true.

That is not true LGW. The following proves she did say there was no plan and you can "white" wash it all you like, but the proof is in here statement.

Sorrow filled heaven, as it was realized that man was lost ... I saw the lovely Jesus and beheld an expression of sympathy and sorrow upon His countenance. Soon I saw Him approach the exceeding bright light which enshrouded His Father. Said my accompanying angel, He is in close converse with the Father.... Three times He was shut in by the glorious light about the Father, and the third time He came from the Father, His person could be seen.... He then made known to the angelic host that a way of escape had been made for lost man. He told them that He had been pleading with His Father, and had offered to give His life a ransom, to take the sentence of death upon Himself ... Jesus bade the heavenly host be reconciled to the plan that His Father had accepted... Early Writings, pp. 149-151.

I scratch my head in wonderment that you would even try to defend her statement. It is so obvious that she was not telling the truth and even used her accompanying angel in her false plot. Seems like if there really was angel it must have come from the one third that sided with Satan.

So to state that EGW is disagreeing with 1 Peter 1:18-20 that I quoted earlier or 2 Timothy 1:9 is not in agreement with what the quote is saying. So tell me do you want to talk scriptures now and discuss the OP?

At this point I am only interested in making corrections to what you write LGW.

RBPerry · Apr 6, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
THIS IS MY TESTIMONY

...............

SUMMARY: I became a Sabbath keeper and SDA because I believe God guided me to this Church through His Word and this is my testimony!

Since you believe the SDA is where God wants you, then by all means stay there. What many SDA don't understand is other Christians are just as committed to serving and loving God as you are. God will not reject them because they worship on a different day than you do. I have many SDA friends that I love and respect deeply. Each one of us needs to follow where we believe God is leading us, we will miss the mark at times, but the heart needs to be willing to listen to the Holy Spirit and follow.

LoveGodsWord · Apr 6, 2021

Hello Bob,

This will be the last post I will make on your claims on EGW here Bob as this is not the topic of the OP. I respectfully asked you earlier that you might respect the OP here and keep on topic and no longer try and sidetrack the OP. I am happy to discuss the scriptures with you but not other topics. Thank you for your understanding here. I have asked you more than once now so please be respectful to the OP here.

Bob S said:
Oh! so now you add to your statement the word "implemented". The problem is that was not what you wrote. You must think that I am so stupid that I cannot decipher what you write. You wrote the following: "Indeed Bob, It does not make sense that there would be a plan of salvation before man sinned as there was nothing to be saved from."

Not really Bob the scriptures show that Gods' plan although made before the creation of the earth *1 Peter 1:18-20; 2 Timothy 1:9 was only implemented after mankind had sinned *Genesis 3:14-15. There was no need for a plan of salvation before mankind had sinned as posted already before sin man kind was in perfect harmony with their creator and there was nothing for them to be saved from because they had not sinned.

LoveGodsWord wrote: So as you can see this is the same position EGW states. She never says anywhere that God did not have a plan of salvation before the fall and I can pull up other quotes from her showing that she says God did have a plan of salvation before mankind fell into sin so you stating otherwise is not true.

Your response here...

Bob S said:
That is not true LGW. The following proves she did say there was no plan and you can "white" wash it all you like, but the proof is in here statement.
Sorrow filled heaven, as it was realized that man was lost ... I saw the lovely Jesus and beheld an expression of sympathy and sorrow upon His countenance. Soon I saw Him approach the exceeding bright light which enshrouded His Father. Said my accompanying angel, He is in close converse with the Father.... Three times He was shut in by the glorious light about the Father, and the third time He came from the Father, His person could be seen.... He then made known to the angelic host that a way of escape had been made for lost man. He told them that He had been pleading with His Father, and had offered to give His life a ransom, to take the sentence of death upon Himself ... Jesus bade the heavenly host be reconciled to the plan that His Father had accepted... Early Writings, pp. 149-151.

Yep it's true alrighty Bob! Just because God only made known what the plan of salvation was to the angelic host in the quote you have provided after the fall of man kind does not state anywhere that God had not already seen mans fall into sin and had not already made the plan of salvation before the creation of the earth. There is nothing in the quote you provide here that says when God made the plan of salvation for all man kind at all so the claims your making here are not true.

Here you go Bob, did EGW believe as you claim here that she did not believe that God made the plan of salvation before the creation of the earth?

Before the Father Christ pleaded in the sinner's behalf, while the host of heaven awaited the result with an intensity of interest that words cannot express. Long continued was that mysterious communing—“the counsel of peace” for the fallen human race. The plan of salvation had been laid before the creation of the earth, for Christ is “the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.” Yet it was a struggle, even with the King of the universe, to yield up His Son to die for the guilty race.... Oh, the mystery of redemption! The love of God for a world that did not love Him! Who can know the depths of that love that “passeth knowledge”? (Christ Triumphant p 30.4)

The plan of salvation had been laid before the creation of the earth, for Christ is “the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world” (Revelation 13:8); yet it was a struggle with the King of the universe to yield up His Son to die for the guilty race. But “God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” John 3:16. O, the mystery of redemption! the love of God for a world that did not love Him! (From Eternity past p 31.3)

Before the Father He pleaded in the sinner's behalf, while the host of heaven awaited the result with an intensity of interest that words cannot express. Long continued was that mysterious communing—“the counsel of peace” (Zechariah 6:13) for the fallen sons of men. The plan of salvation had been laid before the creation of the earth; for Christ is “the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world” (Revelation 13:8); yet it was a struggle, even with the King of the universe, to yield up His Son to die for the guilty race. But “God so loved the world, that He gave His only-begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” John 3:16. Oh, the mystery of redemption! the love of God for a world that did not love Him! Who can know the depths of that love which “passeth knowledge”? Through endless ages immortal minds, seeking to comprehend the mystery of that incomprehensible love, will wonder and adore. (Patriarchs and Prophets p 63.3)

The plan of salvation had been laid before the creation of the earth; ... yet it was a struggle, even with the King of the universe, to yield up His son to die for the guilty race.... Oh, the mystery of redemption! the love of God for a world that did not love Him! ... Through endless ages immortal minds, seeking to comprehend the mystery of that incomprehensible love, will wonder and adore. (Amazing Grace 42.3)

Before the Father He pleaded in the sinner's behalf, while the host of heaven awaited the result with an intensity of interest that words can not express. Long continued was that mysterious communing—“the counsel of peace”—for the fallen sons of men. The plan of salvation had been laid before the creation of the earth; for Christ is a lamb “foreordained before the foundation of the world”; yet it was a struggle, even with the King of the universe, to yield up His Son to die for the guilty race. But “God so loved the world, that He gave His only-begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” O, the mystery of redemption! the love of God for a world that did not love Him! Who can know the depths of that love which “passeth knowledge”? Through endless ages, immortal minds, seeking to comprehend the mystery of that incomprehensible love, will wonder and adore. (Signs of the Times, 1908, November 4)

................

Kind of not saying what your saying now Bob is it? Perhaps you had a misunderstanding.

Bob S said:
I scratch my head in wonderment that you would even try to defend her statement. It is so obvious that she was not telling the truth and even used her accompanying angel in her false plot. Seems like if there really was angel it must have come from the one third that sided with Satan. At this point I am only interested in making corrections to what you write LGW.

I think it is very clear now Bob, that your claims here are not true in regards to the post you quoted and that perhaps you should start making your own corrections instead of worrying about others. So I hope we can get back to the OP please and I ask you respect this OP and stay on topic. Did you want to discuss the OP now?

Thanks for your understanding.

LoveGodsWord · Apr 6, 2021

RBPerry said:
Since you believe the SDA is where God wants you, then by all means stay there. What many SDA don't understand is other Christians are just as committed to serving and loving God as you are. God will not reject them because they worship on a different day than you do. I have many SDA friends that I love and respect deeply. Each one of us needs to follow where we believe God is leading us, we will miss the mark at times, but the heart needs to be willing to listen to the Holy Spirit and follow.

Hello Perry, I do not know anyone in the SDA Church personally that do not believe God's people are in every Church (all 30 to 40k of them). I think I have stated this in many post of mine even in my personal Testimony I shared with you. That does not mean however that every church is sharing the truth of God's Word as we know because of the warning of Jesus Matthew 24:24 and elsewhere in the scriptures. As posted earlier Gods people are in every Church according to the scriptures *John 10:16 but the hour is coming and now is according to the scriptures that the true worshipers will worship God in Spirit and in truth *John 4:23. This is because the hour of God's judgement has come according to Revelation 14:7-12. God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth *John 4:24. God is calling us all to come out from following man-made teachings and traditions and return to the pure Word of God *Revelation 18:4. God's sheep where ever they may be hear His Voice (the Word) and follow him. Those who do not hear will not follow because they are not His sheep according to John 10:26-27.

LoveGodsWord · Apr 6, 2021

imge said:
Thanks for sharing your testimony. It was very moving and inspiring! I know a lot of similar stories from other SDA members. Praise God, He is so good! God bless

Thanks for the encouraging words sis. God is indeed good to all who hear His voice (the Word). I feel sad when I see those who have had a knowledge of the truth of Gods' Word and decide to leave it or for many who might close their eyes and ears to hearing God's Word. One thing I do not however and do sincerely believe is that anyone who wants to know Gods' Word and continues to seek Jesus through His Word has Gods' promises and it is never too late to return to God while we still have time.

God bless

Freedm · Apr 12, 2021

HIM said:
That is your wisdom, not God's.

ok

Freedm · Apr 12, 2021

Freth said:
You're comparing our fallen sinful existence to the kingdom of God. The kingdom of God does not have disobedience. A third of the angels of heaven were cast down to earth because sin cannot be allowed in God's kingdom. What is the purpose of calling us out of the world of sin if not to obedience? Righteousness and holiness are required for the kingdom of God. The idea that somehow we can sin freely and God will just shrug His shoulders flies in the face of scripture calling for obedience unto righteousness (Romans 6:16 et al).

I don't think you've really thought this through. Do you think God will take away our free will?

Freth · Apr 12, 2021

Freedm said:
I don't think you've really thought this through. Do you think God will take away our free will?

God is not going to take away our free will.

1) God chose us in Him. God has chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love (Ephesians 1:4).
2) We have free will to choose Him or not. Don't you know to whom you yield yourselves as servants to obey? You are His servants in obedience—whether of sin unto death or of obedience unto to righteousness (Romans 6:16).

The kingdom of heaven is not a place of sin. The new heaven and new earth will not be a place of sin. The new Jerusalem will not be a place of sin. As the complete chapter of Romans 6 states, we are called to obedience unto righteousness. This in no way negates free will. If (conditional) we love Jesus, we will keep His commandments (John 14:15). If we love God, we will keep His commandments (Exodus 20:6).

At the second coming, the dead in Christ will be resurrected incorruptible and we will be changed and be gathered up to meet them in the clouds.

1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I doubt this means we will lose our free will after we're changed to incorruptible.

Bob S · Apr 12, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Hello Bob,

This will be the last post I will make on your claims on EGW here Bob as this is not the topic of the OP. I respectfully asked you earlier that you might respect the OP here and keep on topic and no longer try and sidetrack the OP. I am happy to discuss the scriptures with you but not other topics. Thank you for your understanding here. I have asked you more than once now so please be respectful to the OP here.

That is a do as I say not as I do.

Not really Bob the scriptures show that Gods' plan although made before the creation of the earth *1 Peter 1:18-20; 2 Timothy 1:9 was only implemented after mankind had sinned *Genesis 3:14-15. There was no need for a plan of salvation before mankind had sinned as posted already before sin man kind was in perfect harmony with their creator and there was nothing for them to be saved from because they had not sinned.

That statement surely does not make sense. Of course, the plan would not be implemented until after man sinned. That is no excuse for what Ellen wrote in "Early Writings" that there was no plan before the fall of man.
All of the quotations you found and posted were corrections to her "Early Writings" statement. Ellen couldn't admit she made a grave mistake in the "Early Writing" account because of her involving the Angel. Angels don't lie now do they? All of the statements you provided were cover-ups.

RBPerry · Apr 13, 2021

I have asked this question in the past, but I will ask again.

Why would God wait 1500 years to let mankind know they were worshiping on the wrong day?

Two part question. If He did, why didn't he tell the Catholics and other Sunday keeping protestants?

Doesn't make much sense does it.

LoveGodsWord · Apr 14, 2021

RBPerry said:
I have asked this question in the past, but I will ask again.

Why would God wait 1500 years to let mankind know they were worshiping on the wrong day?

Two part question. If He did, why didn't he tell the Catholics and other Sunday keeping protestants?

Doesn't make much sense does it.

God did not need to wait as he has always had a people keeping the Sabbath unbroken to this very present day. Historically God's people have always kept the Sabbath from the days of Jesus to this present day. The Eastern Orthodox Church's for example were a part of the Romans Catholic Church's until the great schism in 1054 AD. They have continued keeping the Sabbath unbroken to this present day as well as other Christian groups.

Freedm · Apr 14, 2021

Freth said:
God is not going to take away our free will.

1) God chose us in Him. God has chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love (Ephesians 1:4).
2) We have free will to choose Him or not. Don't you know to whom you yield yourselves as servants to obey? You are His servants in obedience—whether of sin unto death or of obedience unto to righteousness (Romans 6:16).

The kingdom of heaven is not a place of sin. The new heaven and new earth will not be a place of sin. The new Jerusalem will not be a place of sin. As the complete chapter of Romans 6 states, we are called to obedience unto righteousness. This in no way negates free will. If (conditional) we love Jesus, we will keep His commandments (John 14:15). If we love God, we will keep His commandments (Exodus 20:6).

At the second coming, the dead in Christ will be resurrected incorruptible and we will be changed and be gathered up to meet them in the clouds.

1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I doubt this means we will lose our free will after we're changed to incorruptible.

I agree that there will be no sin, but it can not come about by the way you describe. You're essentially saying that we will still have free will, but we will always choose to do the right thing. Now think about that. Do Christians on earth always do the right thing? Why would that be any different in heaven?

Do you really think God would gamble eternal paradise on man's desire to do the right thing?

Freth · Apr 14, 2021

Freedm said:
I agree that there will be no sin, but it can not come about by the way you describe. You're essentially saying that we will still have free will, but we will always choose to do the right thing. Now think about that. Do Christians on earth always do the right thing? Why would that be any different in heaven?

Do you really think God would gamble eternal paradise on man's desire to do the right thing?

1) The former things pass away and are no longer remembered.

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

2) We are remade incorruptible. This is not to mean we will not have free will.

1 Peter 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you.

Bob S · Apr 14, 2021

Freth said:
1) The former things pass away and are no longer remembered.

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

I really would not hang my hat on what Isaiah wrote in chapter 65-66. 65 tells us man will live to be over 100, babies won't die in infancy, and men that do evil will die before they reach 100. Is 66 tells us that indeed we will remember because we will walk amongst the dead carcasses and even see the worms eating away.

RBPerry · Apr 14, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
God did not need to wait has he always had a people keeping the Sabbath unbroken to this very present day. Historically God's people have always kept the Sabbath from the days of Jesus to this present day. The Eastern Orthodox Church's for example were a part of the Romans Catholic Church's until the great schism in 1054 AD. They have continued keeping the Sabbath unbroken to this present day as well as other Christian groups.

Your missing a few things here. First of all we consider our bible (KG, NIV, NAS, or whatever) God's inspired word. Who put that together? The Catholics did, of course they left out big chunks that they didn't like, and added a few that we protestants didn't like, so we threw them out.
So the majority of orthodox Christians decided to keep Sunday as the day or worship, and yes there were a few that decided to hold on to the Saturday sabbath. The argument that Jesus kept the sabbath by teaching on the sabbath is understandable, that's when the Jews met, go figure.
Rome had a problem when Constantine became a Christian, or accepted Christianity. Rome had a large number of sun god worshipers and he wanted to keep them happy so he changed the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday. Many protestants say they worship on Sunday because that's the day Christ had risen. Now during the various counsels for the next 1500 years the Saturday sabbath never became an issue to the best of my knowledge (please correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a long time since I studied that aspect Christian history.) Anyway, you would think if the Lord had issues with Sunday worship he would have dealt with it instead of waiting for the holiness movement to come alone.
Now if you are going to jump on the Eastern Orthodox ban wagon you better take a hard look at their theology. If I remember correctly the split was due to ecclesiastical differences, meaning the way the church was governed and organized, it wasn't about theology or certain dogma.(Again check me on that.)
Sure the Jews kept the Saturday sabbath, they also rejected Christ as the messiah.
So you can't claim the sabbath keeping has been unbroken, the orthodox church broke it in 300 AD.
I'll say it again, all these divisions of various denominations do nothing to strengthen the Christ church, it merely separates and confuses the average believer.

HIM · Apr 14, 2021

RBPerry said:
Your missing a few things here. First of all we consider our bible (KG, NIV, NAS, or whatever) God's inspired word. Who put that together? The Catholics did, of course they left out big chunks that they didn't like, and added a few that we protestants didn't like, so we threw them out.
So the majority of orthodox Christians decided to keep Sunday as the day or worship, and yes there were a few that decided to hold on to the Saturday sabbath. The argument that Jesus kept the sabbath by teaching on the sabbath is understandable, that's when the Jews met, go figure.
Rome had a problem when Constantine became a Christian, or accepted Christianity. Rome had a large number of sun god worshipers and he wanted to keep them happy so he changed the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday. Many protestants say they worship on Sunday because that's the day Christ had risen. Now during the various counsels for the next 1500 years the Saturday sabbath never became an issue to the best of my knowledge (please correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a long time since I studied that aspect Christian history.) Anyway, you would think if the Lord had issues with Sunday worship he would have dealt with it instead of waiting for the holiness movement to come alone.
Now if you are going to jump on the Eastern Orthodox ban wagon you better take a hard look at their theology. If I remember correctly the split was due to ecclesiastical differences, meaning the way the church was governed and organized, it wasn't about theology or certain dogma.(Again check me on that.)
Sure the Jews kept the Saturday sabbath, they also rejected Christ as the messiah.
So you can't claim the sabbath keeping has been unbroken, the orthodox church broke it in 300 AD.
I'll say it again, all these divisions of various denominations do nothing to strengthen the Christ church, it merely separates and confuses the average believer.

While Jesus was prophesying the coming destruction of Jerusalem he said, "But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day" Matt 24:20

He was talking to His disciples, the teachers of His Church. If the Sabbath is as you say those are idle words coming from our Savior. But thanks be to God that those words are not idle but alive. And you can bet your bottom dollar the Apostles and the disciples had it alive in them come that great and dreadful day and took heed to His Words.

Freedm · Apr 14, 2021

Freth said:
1) The former things pass away and are no longer remembered.

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

2) We are remade incorruptible. This is not to mean we will not have free will.

1 Peter 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you.

That doesn't really address the issue. Yes, the former things will not come to mind, but with a free will one could always choose to gossip about another, or steal from another. Even if you love Jesus.

1 Corinthians 15:52. Some translations say we are raised "incorruptible" but that doesn't mean what we think it means. The original Greek word here is aphthartoi which means "does not decay". He was referring to our bodies. That doesn't mean we can't still do wrong.

So again, I encourage you to really think about this. Use your logic. And don't just default to the "we will choose not to sin" answer because that's not logical, it's wishful thinking, and it's frankly lazy. It doesn't make sense. There must be another answer.

AMAZING FUN FACTS ON GOD'S 4th COMMANDMENT AND SUNDAY WORSHIP!

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