Removing the laws of God- what does it really mean?

Leaf473

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I explain it this way;

The Decalogue, literally "Ten Words" or in modern-day English - "The Ten Commandments" are the table of contents, if you will, for the book of the law.

In other words, the entire book of the law could be placed one after another under one of the 10 commandments - all except two laws.

Love God and love your neighbor. Those two actually summarize the entire book of the law(and the table of contents - the Decalogue).

This is why Jesus' answer to the religious leaders was met with no rebuttal. Not to mention, it was a test question, and this did lead to Jesus' "woes" to them in the very next chapter(Mathew 23).

They knew the truth, but they rejected it because they wanted their own way of doing things.


So in regards to the Sabbath, 4th commandment, literally, on the tablet, it would have said "Sabbath" with the direct regard/intention of "remembrance".

God did not write the whole verses, about working 6 days, not working the seventh, on the actual tablets.
I'm inclined to agree with that. It would explain why the version in Deuteronomy has a different explanation to the Israelites of the Sabbath rest.
 
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Leaf473

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What does Jesus say about how we demonstrate our love to Him?
Lots of different ways!

Keep his commandments.

Bear one another's burdens.

Feed and clothe the least of his siblings.

I think the instructions given in the New testament are intended to be exemplary. They are examples of how to live. They are not a complete list :)
 
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SabbathBlessings

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No, I'm not saying the Ten commandments are Shadow laws, sorry I didn't make that clear.

Myself, I don't divide the law into some for today, some not for today. I think the law is a set of instructions designed by God as a single unit.

But some of my Christian brothers and sisters on this thread do divide up the law that way.

There are some Christians that believe that God will bring back animal sacrifice.
But assuming you don't think that, then we agree that at least certain laws have been fulfilled.

I'm just extending that to say that in the same way that you believe certain laws have been fulfilled, I believe the entire law is fulfilled when we love our neighbor.

Does that make sense, or do you want me to explain more?

So you do not think the ten commandments are shadow laws so that means they are still binding? But than you go on to say all the laws are "fulfilled" and all we have to do is love our neighbor. So is it still a sin to vain God's name? Or is that okay because the laws are fulfilled? Maybe you can explain a little more so I understand where you are coming from.
 
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Nathan@work

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I'm inclined to agree with that. It would explain why the version in Deuteronomy has a different explanation to the Israelites of the Sabbath rest.
Exactly.

The thing is, because some explanations of the "ten words" were tucked in the passage, they became a part of the '10 Commandments in some people's eyes.

The reality is you cannot separate the 10 words from the rest of the law. But that is what people want to do because otherwise, they have to agree that all the other laws are applicable the same as is seen in those two passages in Exodus and Deuteronomy.

So all the laws about sacrifices and offerings and things you do for your neighbor and all of it - is part of the Covenant made at Horeb with the Nation of Israel.

It is this Covenant that Jesus fulfilled, which prompted the New Covenant in Christ.

[Rom 11:25-27 ESV] Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob"; "and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins."

How wonderful is that! The New Covenant is God taking away our sins! How can someone not just simply rest in that is beyond my comprehension.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Lots of different ways!

Keep his commandments.

Bear one another's burdens.

Feed and clothe the least of his siblings.

I think the instructions given in the New testament are intended to be exemplary. They are examples of how to live. They are not a complete list :)

So than we do need to obey God's commandments?
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Exactly.

The thing is, because some explanations of the "ten words" were tucked in the passage, they became a part of the '10 Commandments in some people's eyes.

The reality is you cannot separate the 10 words from the rest of the law. But that is what people want to do because otherwise, they have to agree that all the other laws are applicable the same as is seen in those two passages in Exodus and Deuteronomy.

So all the laws about sacrifices and offerings and things you do for your neighbor and all of it - is part of the Covenant made at Horeb with the Nation of Israel.

It is this Covenant that Jesus fulfilled, which prompted the New Covenant in Christ.

[Rom 11:25-27 ESV] Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob"; "and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins."

How wonderful is that! The New Covenant is God taking away our sins! How can someone not just simply rest in that is beyond my comprehension.


God did separated the Ten from the other laws. I noticed you did not provide scripture to back up your statement. Maybe this will help:

God's LAW was written and made by God alone on two tables of stone and spoken by God Himself to His people and nothing was to be added to it. (God's LAW; Ex 32:16; 34:28; Deut 4:13; 10:4; Exodus 20; Romans 3:20, 1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7; Ps 119:172; James 2:8-12; Hebrews 8:10-12; Gal 3:24; Deut 5:22; Ex 34:28; Deut 10:4 Ecc 3:14; Ex 25:16; Deut 10:5)

It is called God's LAW or the 10 Commandment, because God was the one alone who made it and commanded Moses to keep in separated from the book of the law in the Ark of the Covenant (Neh 10:29; Deut 10:4-5; Deut 31:25-26; Deut 4:13; Ex 34:28)

God's LAW was not made by Moses it was made by God alone on two tables of stone and nothing was to be added to it and it was to be separated from the Mosaic book of the law. That is why it is referred to in the scriptures as God's LAW or the 10 commandments (not the 613).

The Mosaic law was made and written and spoken by Moses as directed by God in the book of the covenant. (Mosaic Book of the law; Deut 31:9; Ex 24:3-4; Deut 31:24-27; Col 2:14-17).

God not only commanded Moses to keep the 10 Commandments separated from the Mosaic book of the law in the Ark of the Covenant (Deut 10:5; 31:25-26 nothing was to be added to it (Deut 4:1-2; Deut 5:22)

God makes a distinction between the 10 Commandments and the book of the law of Moses….

2 Kings 21:8, Neither will I make the feet of Israel move any more out of the land which I gave their fathers; only if they will observe to do according to all that I have commanded them, and according to all the law that my servant Moses commanded them.

Hope this helps.
 
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Nathan@work

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God did separated the Ten from the other laws. I noticed you did not provide scripture to back up your statement. Maybe this will help:

God's LAW was written and made by God alone on two tables of stone and spoken by God Himself to His people and nothing was to be added to it. (God's LAW; Ex 32:16; 34:28; Deut 4:13; 10:4; Exodus 20; Romans 3:20, 1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7; Ps 119:172; James 2:8-12; Hebrews 8:10-12; Gal 3:24; Deut 5:22; Ex 34:28; Deut 10:4 Ecc 3:14; Ex 25:16; Deut 10:5)

It is called God's LAW or the 10 Commandment, because God was the one alone who made it and commanded Moses to keep in separated from the book of the law in the Ark of the Covenant (Neh 10:29; Deut 10:4-5; Deut 31:25-26; Deut 4:13; Ex 34:28)

God's LAW was not made by Moses it was made by God alone on two tables of stone and nothing was to be added to it and it was to be separated from the Mosaic book of the law. That is why it is referred to in the scriptures as God's LAW or the 10 commandments (not the 613).

The Mosaic law was made and written and spoken by Moses as directed by God in the book of the covenant. (Mosaic Book of the law; Deut 31:9; Ex 24:3-4; Deut 31:24-27; Col 2:14-17).

God not only commanded Moses to keep the 10 Commandments separated from the Mosaic book of the law in the Ark of the Covenant (Deut 10:5; 31:25-26 nothing was to be added to it (Deut 4:1-2; Deut 5:22)

God makes a distinction between the 10 Commandments and the book of the law of Moses….

2 Kings 21:8, Neither will I make the feet of Israel move any more out of the land which I gave their fathers; only if they will observe to do according to all that I have commanded them, and according to all the law that my servant Moses commanded them.

Hope this helps.

You can no more separate the Decalogue from the rest given at Horeb, than you can the Preamble from the Constitution and all of our laws as the United States.

Just because they were written separately, on different material, does not mean they can be separated.

Exodus 24:12 (ESV)
The LORD said to Moses, “Come up to me on the mountain and wait there, that I may give you the tablets of stone, with the law and the commandment, which I have written for their instruction.”
 
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SabbathBlessings

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You can no more separate the Decalogue from the rest given at Horeb, than you can the Preamble from the Constitution and all of our laws as the United States.

Just because they were written separately, on different material, does not mean they can be separated.

Exodus 24:12 (ESV)
The LORD said to Moses, “Come up to me on the mountain and wait there, that I may give you the tablets of stone, with the law and the commandment, which I have written for their instruction.”
God separated them and the scripture was given, but you can believe as you wish, the truth was shared for those who are interested in that.

I think we need to be careful how we are talking about God's laws and not valuing them as sacred, because God did. They were written by the finger of God, personally spoken by God and were stored in the inside of the Ark of the Covenant under the mercy seat, which represented the very presence of God. Clearly the Ten Commandments are extremely important to God. It is the constant theme throughout the Bible about how we should obey and His commandments are about love and we are told they are an eternal covenant.
It is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail” (Luke 16:17).
“My covenant I will not break, nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips” (Psalm 89:34).
“All His precepts [commandments] are sure. They stand fast forever and ever” (Psalm 111:7, 8).

Jesus made it clear He did not come to destroy the laws Mathew 5 17-19. We are told we show love to God when we obey. 1 John 5:3. Not sure if any of you have children. Say you have two boys, both say they love you, but only one obeys and the other says to you, I don't need to obey you, because my love should be enough. Which son really loves you versus loving themselves by their actions?

Jesus sacrificed everything and He said if you love Me, keep my commandments. John 14:15 This shouldn't be so offensive to people and the way people skirt around this is really only hurting themselves.

The spirit of the law tells how we keep the law. Can we keep the spirit of the law without keeping its letter?
 
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Nathan@work

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God separated them and the scripture was given, but you can believe as you wish, the truth was shared for those who are interested in that.

I think we need to be careful how we are talking about God's laws and and not valuing them as sacred, because God did. They were written by the finger of God, personally spoken by God and were stored in the inside of the Ark of the Covenant under the mercy seat, which represented the very presence of God. Clearly the Ten Commandments are extremely important to God. It is the constant theme throughout the Bible about how we should obey and His commandments are about love and we are told they are an eternal covenant.
It is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail” (Luke 16:17).
“My covenant I will not break, nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips” (Psalm 89:34).
“All His precepts [commandments] are sure. They stand fast forever and ever” (Psalm 111:7, 8).

Jesus made it clear He did not come to destroy the laws Mathew 17:19. We are told we show love to God when we obey. 1 John 5:3. Not sure if any of you have children. Say you have two boys, both say they love you, but only one obeys and the other says to you, I don't need to obey you, because my love should be enough. Which son really loves you versus loving themselves by their actions?

Jesus sacrificed everything and He said if you love Me, keep my commandments. John 14:15 This shouldn't be so offensive to people and the way people skirt around this is really only hurting themselves.

The spirit of the law tells how we keep the law. Can we keep the spirit of the law without keeping its letter.
I do not think you understand what you are writing.

In one breath you say that God has separated His law, then in the next you say we should not separate them.

The book of the law was right there with the Ark also. It was not kept separate from the tablets. They were literally inches apart.

What has happened is people have chosen to make words their god, not listening to the true and only living God.

People want to make a doctrine to enslave others so they pick and choose what they want out of a book, and then declare it to be the truth of God.

God is not captive inside the Bible. There is not life inside the Bible. You look for it there, you make it seem to be there, but it all points to Christ.

Today, if you hear His voice, stop hardening your heart to it in favor of the flesh of your eyes.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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I do not think you understand what you are writing.

In one breath you say that God has separated His law, then in the next you say we should not separate them.

The book of the law was right there with the Ark also. It was not kept separate from the tablets. They were literally inches apart.

What has happened is people have chosen to make words their god, not listening to the true and only living God.

People want to make a doctrine to enslave others so they pick and choose what they want out of a book, and then declare it to be the truth of God.

God is not captive inside the Bible. There is not life inside the Bible. You look for it there, you make it seem to be there, but it all points to Christ.

Today, if you hear His voice, stop hardening your heart to it in favor of the flesh of your eyes.
I have no idea what you’re talking about and you didn’t provide any scripture. So I am going to end our conversation on this note as it does not seem fruitful. God bless.
 
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Nathan@work

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I have no idea what you’re talking about and you didn’t provide any scripture. So I am going to end our conversation on this note as it does not seem fruitful. God bless.
Your reply exemplifies my post.

You look to a book for truth. If someone doesn’t provide passages from that book you discount them.

If they do quote passages from it, you discount them.

You want to see what you want to see in a written letter.

What I am hoping you’ll do is look to the One who wrote the things you read about.

The Ark had all the law. The tablets placed inside, the book of the law on its side. It was all apart of the Ark.

John 19:34 (ESV) But one of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear, and at once there came out blood and water.

1 John 5:6-12 (ESV) This is he who came by water and blood--Jesus Christ; not by the water only but by the water and the blood. And the Spirit is the one who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. For there are three that testify: the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree. If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater, for this is the testimony of God that he has borne concerning his Son. Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

Jesus is Gods testimony. Jesus is the Ark of God.

Just as in the days of Noah, only those inside the Ark were saved, so to only those in Christ will be saved.

Philippians 3:8-9 (ESV)
Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith--

Please @imge, hear His voice today. He is calling you. Faith is not against the law, Faith upholds the law. You cannot replace Faith with the law and be saved.
 
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Freth

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Your reply exemplifies my post.

You look to a book for truth. If someone doesn’t provide passages from that book you discount them.

If they do quote passages from it, you discount them.

You want to see what you want to see in a written letter.

What I am hoping you’ll do is look to the One who wrote the things you read about.

The Ark had all the law. The tablets placed inside, the book of the law on its side. It was all apart of the Ark.

John 19:34 (ESV) But one of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear, and at once there came out blood and water.

1 John 5:6-12 (ESV) This is he who came by water and blood--Jesus Christ; not by the water only but by the water and the blood. And the Spirit is the one who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. For there are three that testify: the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree. If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater, for this is the testimony of God that he has borne concerning his Son. Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

Jesus is Gods testimony. Jesus is the Ark of God.

Just as in the days of Noah, only those inside the Ark were saved, so to only those in Christ will be saved.

Philippians 3:8-9 (ESV)
Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith--

Please @imge, hear His voice today. He is calling you. Faith is not against the law, Faith upholds the law. You cannot replace Faith with the law and be saved.


"You look to a book for truth. If someone doesn’t provide passages from that book you discount them. If they do quote passages from it, you discount them."

Here's why:

1. The Bible is the word of truth.
  • We are to study to show ourselves approved, rightly dividing the word of truth. —2 Timothy 3:15
  • The word of God is quick, powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, of the joints and the marrow and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. —Hebrews 4:12
  • To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. —Isaiah 8:20
2. The Holy Spirit is the spirit of truth. Truth is the word of God.
  • From your very own post: ...the Spirit is the truth... —1 John 5:6
  • ...sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God... —Ephesians 6:17
3. The Holy Spirit gives discernment.
  • But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. —1 Corinthians 2:14
Knowing these things, why wouldn't you use the truth to speak the truth? Not your own words, but God's words. What is more authoritative than the word of God, discerned through the Holy Spirit?

Isaiah confirms this very thing concerning the Sabbath day, which is God's day of worship.
  • ...on my holy day...honor him...[not] speaking thine own words...[speaking the word of God, doing His work] —Isaiah 58:13
This is how we keep the Sabbath holy, but it is also how we are holy in our daily walk. Honoring Him, speaking His words and not our own, seeking to live holy lives. Thus, every day we should share the word of God with others and correct our brethren, because we love them and want to see them in the kingdom. This does not mean that we are not above correction. We can learn from each other.


"You want to see what you want to see in a written letter."

  • The language of the Bible is clear and concise. So is the context.
  • The Holy Spirit gives discernment. Pulling ideas from thin air is not being led by the Spirit of truth.
  • Jesus warned about adding to or taking away from scripture. —Revelation 22:18-19

"What I am hoping you’ll do is look to the One who wrote the things you read about."

  • And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. —John 1:14
  • You can't separate Jesus from the word of God (above), nor God from Jesus. —Colossians 1:19
  • Therefore, reading God's word is looking directly at God and listening to Him.

"The Ark had all the law. The tablets placed inside, the book of the law on its side. It was all apart [sic] of the Ark. Jesus is Gods testimony. Jesus is the Ark of God. Just as in the days of Noah, only those inside the Ark were saved, so to only those in Christ will be saved. Please [@imge], hear His voice today. He is calling you. Faith is not against the law, Faith upholds the law. You cannot replace Faith with the law and be saved.
"
  • I performed a search of imge's posts in this thread, containing the word love. The result was 74 posts. 74 times, she has shown that she believes that we show our love for God by obeying His commandments.
  • I performed a search of my own posts in this thread, containing the word love. The result was 13 posts. 13 times, I have shown that I believe that we show our love of God by obeying His commandments.
  • I performed a search of BobRyan's posts in this thread, containing the word love. The result was 16 posts. 16 times, he has shown that he believes that we show our love of God by obeying His commandments.
  • I performed a search of LoveGodsWord's posts in this thread, containing the word love. The result was 25 posts. 25 times, he has shown that he believes that we show our love of God by obeying His commandments.
  • I performed a search of Religiout's posts in this thread, containing the word love. The result was 5 posts. 5 times, he has shown that he believes that we show our love of God by obeying His commandments.
  • I performed a search of HIM's posts in this thread, containing the word love. The result was 3 posts. 3 times, he has shown that he believes that we show our love of God by obeying His commandments.
If you have read our posts, I don't think you can come away with the idea that we do not have faith in Christ or that we obey for any other reason than love for God.

You quoted 1 John 5:6-12, but left out verse 2, which makes the very point we've been saying for 100 pages now.

1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.​
 
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Nathan@work

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"You look to a book for truth. If someone doesn’t provide passages from that book you discount them. If they do quote passages from it, you discount them."

Here's why:

1. The Bible is the word of truth.
  • We are to study to show ourselves approved, rightly dividing the word of truth. —2 Timothy 3:15
  • The word of God is quick, powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, of the joints and the marrow and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. —Hebrews 4:12
  • To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. —Isaiah 8:20
2. The Holy Spirit is the spirit of truth. Truth is the word of God.
  • From your very own post: ...the Spirit is the truth... —1 John 5:6
  • ...sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God... —Ephesians 6:17
3. The Holy Spirit gives discernment.
  • But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. —1 Corinthians 2:14
Knowing these things, why wouldn't you use the truth to speak the truth? Not your own words, but God's words. What is more authoritative than the word of God, discerned through the Holy Spirit?

Isaiah confirms this very thing concerning the Sabbath day, which is God's day of worship.
  • ...on my holy day...honor him...[not] speaking thine own words...[speaking the word of God, doing His work] —Isaiah 58:13
This is how we keep the Sabbath holy, but it is also how we are holy in our daily walk. Honoring Him, speaking His words and not our own, seeking to live holy lives. Thus, every day we should share the word of God with others and correct our brethren, because we love them and want to see them in the kingdom. This does not mean that we are not above correction. We can learn from each other.


"You want to see what you want to see in a written letter."

  • The language of the Bible is clear and concise. So is the context.
  • The Holy Spirit gives discernment. Pulling ideas from thin air is not being led by the Spirit of truth.
  • Jesus warned about adding to or taking away from scripture. —Revelation 22:18-19

"What I am hoping you’ll do is look to the One who wrote the things you read about."

  • And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. —John 1:14
  • You can't separate Jesus from the word of God (above), nor God from Jesus. —Colossians 1:19
  • Therefore, reading God's word is looking directly at God and listening to Him.

"The Ark had all the law. The tablets placed inside, the book of the law on its side. It was all apart [sic] of the Ark. Jesus is Gods testimony. Jesus is the Ark of God. Just as in the days of Noah, only those inside the Ark were saved, so to only those in Christ will be saved. Please [@imge], hear His voice today. He is calling you. Faith is not against the law, Faith upholds the law. You cannot replace Faith with the law and be saved.
"
  • I performed a search of imge's posts in this thread, containing the word love. The result was 74 posts. 74 times, she has shown that she believes that we show our love for God by obeying His commandments.
  • I performed a search of my own posts in this thread, containing the word love. The result was 13 posts. 13 times, I have shown that I believe that we show our love of God by obeying His commandments.
  • I performed a search of BobRyan's posts in this thread, containing the word love. The result was 16 posts. 16 times, he has shown that he believes that we show our love of God by obeying His commandments.
  • I performed a search of LoveGodsWord's posts in this thread, containing the word love. The result was 25 posts. 25 times, he has shown that he believes that we show our love of God by obeying His commandments.
  • I performed a search of Religiout's posts in this thread, containing the word love. The result was 5 posts. 5 times, he has shown that he believes that we show our love of God by obeying His commandments.
  • I performed a search of HIM's posts in this thread, containing the word love. The result was 3 posts. 3 times, he has shown that he believes that we show our love of God by obeying His commandments.
If you have read our posts, I don't think you can come away with the idea that we do not have faith in Christ or that we obey for any other reason than love for God.

You quoted 1 John 5:6-12, but left out verse 2, which makes the very point we've been saying for 100 pages now.

1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.​
There is nothing more authoritative than the Word of God. His name is Jesus. His Spirit lives inside those who have Faith. He does not live inside the Bible.

I am not sure why you performed a search on how many times someone used the word "love" in reply to what I said about the Ark.

Let me ask you a question. You say you love God, why do you love God?
 
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Leaf473

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So you do not think the ten commandments are shadow laws so that means they are still binding? But than you go on to say all the laws are "fulfilled" and all we have to do is love our neighbor. So is it still a sin to vain God's name? Or is that okay because the laws are fulfilled? Maybe you can explain a little more so I understand where you are coming from.
Well, myself I don't divide the law into the shadow laws and non-shadow laws. I believe they are all fulfilled by Jesus, he said that's what he came to do.

I was speaking of it that way because I believe that you divide the law into Shadow and non-shadow.

The intention or spirit of all of the laws is still binding.

I believe taking God's name in vain refers to the practice of swearing an oath, usually with the formula "As YHWH lives..."
I think the commandment is saying if you take an oath using God's name, be sure you keep it.
Jesus expanded on that commandment, saying Don't take an oath at all.

What kind of person pledges to do something in the strongest possible form and then doesn't do it? Probably someone who is seeking their own well-being, not that of those around them.
So taking God's name in vain is generally incompatible with loving your neighbor.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Well, myself I don't divide the law into the shadow laws and non-shadow laws. I believe they are all fulfilled by Jesus, he said that's what he came to do.

I was speaking of it that way because I believe that you divide the law into Shadow and non-shadow.

The intention or spirit of all of the laws is still binding.

I believe taking God's name in vain refers to the practice of swearing an oath, usually with the formula "As YHWH lives..."
I think the commandment is saying if you take an oath using God's name, be sure you keep it.
Jesus expanded on that commandment, saying Don't take an oath at all.

What kind of person pledges to do something in the strongest possible form and then doesn't do it? Probably someone who is seeking their own well-being, not that of those around them.
So taking God's name in vain is generally incompatible with loving your neighbor.


Thanks for your reply. Just want to clarify some things so I understand your views.

Do you still believe in animal sacrifices?

Do you think loving our neighbor is the same as loving God?

Do you think using the Lord's name in vain is the same as taking an oath?

What is your definition of fulfilled? Lets take it literally. When God says not to worship any idols, but its fulfilled in Jesus, is it okay to put money above God now?
 
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There is nothing more authoritative than the Word of God. His name is Jesus. His Spirit lives inside those who have Faith. He does not live inside the Bible.

I am not sure why you performed a search on how many times someone used the word "love" in reply to what I said about the Ark.

Let me ask you a question. You say you love God, why do you love God?

The Living Word

Your first paragraph contradicts itself, saying that the Bible is the ultimate authority and that Jesus is the word of God, but that Jesus doesn't live in the Bible. The Bible is the inspired word of God. The testimony of Jesus. It is indeed a living word. I'll quote this again, but this time in ESV.

Hebrews 4:12 ESV For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
If the Bible is the testimony of Jesus. He indeed lives inside the Bible. Through the inspired word, through the commandments and through the Spirit that gives us discernment and makes the words leap from the page and speak to us directly, from God.

However, I believe you're trying to take it a step further and insinuate that we worship the Bible and not God. That we don't have a personal relationship with Jesus. That we don't receive of the Holy Spirit. You will know them by their fruits. Again I point to the 100 pages of posts as witness to God-fearing people. People who love God and want to share His word. We share His word because it saves.

Ephesians 1:13-14 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
Getting back to your first paragraph. You profess the word of God as authoritative and you profess Jesus as the word of God, but you refuse to partake of the word for correction and for instruction, instead pointing to some abstract concept of the Holy Spirit fulfilling the law in you, when the Bible makes it clear it's of your own effort. Yes, the Holy Spirit helps, but it's on you to be obedient.

There is no possible way you can read the mound of posts in this thread and come to the conclusion that any of us are not living good Christian lives or following the blueprint set before us. I think you're intentionally trying to derail the message imge has gone to great effort and utmost patience and love to share. You keep trying to fit a square peg into a round hole on purpose, but it isn't working; you're not getting anywhere with this line of insinuation.

You say you love God, why do you love God?

Absolutely not. I will not have you question why I love God.

You're welcome to respond, but I am done. I hope you have a blessed day.
 
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Nathan@work

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The Living Word

Your first paragraph contradicts itself, saying that the Bible is the ultimate authority and that Jesus is the word of God, but that Jesus doesn't live in the Bible. The Bible is the inspired word of God. The testimony of Jesus. It is indeed a living word. I'll quote this again, but this time in ESV.

Hebrews 4:12 ESV For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
If the Bible is the testimony of Jesus. He indeed lives inside the Bible. Through the inspired word, through the commandments and through the Spirit that gives us discernment and makes the words leap from the page and speak to us directly, from God.

However, I believe you're trying to take it a step further and insinuate that we worship the Bible and not God. That we don't have a personal relationship with Jesus. That we don't receive of the Holy Spirit. You will know them by their fruits. Again I point to the 100 pages of posts as witness to God-fearing people. People who love God and want to share His word. We share His word because it saves.

Ephesians 1:13-14 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
Getting back to your first paragraph. You profess the word of God as authoritative and you profess Jesus as the word of God, but you refuse to partake of the word for correction and for instruction, instead pointing to some abstract concept of the Holy Spirit fulfilling the law in you, when the Bible makes it clear it's of your own effort. Yes, the Holy Spirit helps, but it's on you to be obedient.

There is no possible way you can read the mound of posts in this thread and come to the conclusion that any of us are not living good Christian lives or following the blueprint set before us. I think you're intentionally trying to derail the message imge has gone to great effort and utmost patience and love to share. You keep trying to fit a square peg into a round hole on purpose, but it isn't working; you're not getting anywhere with this line of insinuation.

You say you love God, why do you love God?

Absolutely not. I will not have you question why I love God.

You're welcome to respond, but I am done. I hope you have a blessed day.

I am not sure where you see a contradiction in my first paragraph?

I did not say the Bible is the ultimate authority.

Jesus is the Word of God. The Bible never claims that title. Who gave it that title?

Jesus, the Word of God, is the ultimate authority.

You are accusing me of a lot of things that simply are not true. If you think I believe something why not just ask instead of making accusations?

I have no intention of "derailing" this thread. I have been engaged with it since the beginning. I plan to stay with it till the end. I have no intention of stopping it.

I love God. If you asked me why I would tell you. Why are you opposed to telling me why you love God?
 
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BobRyan

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Well, myself I don't divide the law into the shadow laws and non-shadow laws. I believe they are all fulfilled by Jesus, he said that's what he came to do.

When it comes to moral law "fulfill" does not mean "delete".

That means not only did Jesus "not take God's name in vain" but also it is still a sin even for Christians to "take God's name in vain". Because even in the NT "Sin is transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4

I was speaking of it that way because I believe that you divide the law into Shadow and non-shadow.

As do Bible scholars in almost every Christian denomination

When contrasting ceremonial law such as circumcision to the moral law of God 1 Cor 7:19 Paul says circumcision does not matter but "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" - where that includes the TEN as Paul said in Eph 6:1-2 the 5th commandment "is the first commandment with a promise".
 
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BobRyan

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Please @imge, hear His voice today. He is calling you. Faith is not against the law, Faith upholds the law. You cannot replace Faith with the law and be saved.

The saints "KEEP the Commandments of God AND have the faith of Jesus" Rev 14:12.. It is not either-or.

The New Covenant - Jer 31:31-34 writes the Law of God known to Jeremiah and his readers on heart and mind. And is unchanged ... verbatim the same in the NT - Heb 8:6-12
 
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