Removing the laws of God- what does it really mean?

Nathan@work · Apr 3, 2021

Leaf473 said:
I've read of strictly observant Jewish people who won't flip a light switch on the Sabbath.

At least they are recognizing the law for how it was given to them.

They are in error, but it shows they are not in willful error.

I think those kind of people are ripe for harvest.

LoveGodsWord · Apr 3, 2021

Nathan@work said:
Ah, so we have something in common. Except I am not retired yet.

I am simply stating the facts.

I do think you are not completely sold over because you are aware that it is the Spirit who leads us, not the letter of the law.

For that, I am grateful. Thank you.

According to God's Word no one has God's Spirit unless they believe and follow God's Word as God's Spirit is the Spirit of the Word of God *John 6:63 that we are saved only as we believe and follow God's Word *John 17:17. If we say we know God and and do not keep His commandments according to 1 John 2:3-4 we are not telling the truth. According to John in 1 John 3:6-10 the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil is sin (breaking God's commandments) those who do not practice known sin are those who have been born again according to 1 John 3:6-9 and these are the ones that the scriptures teach know God. While we are told that the children of the devil are those who practice sin (breaking God's law) in 1 John 3:4-10.

Hope this is helpful.

Nathan@work · Apr 3, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
According to God's Word no one has God's Spirit unless they believe and follow God's Word as God's Spirit is the Spirit of the Word of God *John 6:63 that we are saved by as we believe and follow God's Word *John 17:17. If we say we know God according to the scriptures and and do not keep His commandments according to 1 John 2:3-4 we are not telling the truth. According to John in 1 John 3:6-10 the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil is sin (breaking God's commandments) those who do not practice known sin are those who have been born again according to 1 John 3:6-9 and these are the ones that the scriptures teach know God. While we are told that the children of the devil are those who practice sin (breaking God's law) in 1 John 3:4-10.

Hope this is helpful.

I stopped reading at your first sentence.

Acts proves you are in error. Grave error.

Acts 10:44-45 (ESV) While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles.

The Gentiles there did not do anything other than believe what was being told them. They did not do anything before receiving the Spirit.

The difference between the children of God and those who are not is His Spirit who leads them.

Those who are not His are led by many things, but they all point back to the flesh - the law.

LoveGodsWord · Apr 3, 2021

Nathan@work said:
I stopped reading at your first sentence.

Acts proves you are in error. Grave error.

Acts 10:44-45 (ESV) While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles.

The Gentiles there did not do anything other than believe what was being told them. They did not do anything before receiving the Spirit.

The difference between the children of God and those who are not is His Spirit who leads them.

Those who are not His are led by many things, but they all point back to the flesh - the law.

Peter and the disciples and gentile believers in the scripture you quoted were already believing and following Gods' Word it says so these scriptures do not support your claims that repentance is not a requirement for receiving God's Spirit and receiving God's forgiveness so are your words above that disagree with God's Word below.

.................

Proverbs 28:13, He that covers his sins shall not prosper: but whoever confesses and forsakes them shall have mercy

Acts of the Apostles 2:38 [38], Then Peter said to them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts of the Apostles 3:19 Repent you therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

Acts of the Apostles 8:22 Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you.

Acts of the Apostles 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commands all men every where to repent

1 John 2:3-4, [3] And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.[4], He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him

...................

I prefer Gods' Word over your words.

Hope this is helpful

Nathan@work · Apr 3, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Peter and the disciples and gentile believers in the scripture you quoted were already believing and following Gods' Word it says so these scriptures do not support your claims that repentance is not a requirement for receiving God's Spirit and receiving God's forgiveness so are your words above that disagree with God's Word below.

.................

Proverbs 28:13, He that covers his sins shall not prosper: but whoever confesses and forsakes them shall have mercy

Acts of the Apostles 2:38 [38], Then Peter said to them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts of the Apostles 3:19 Repent you therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

Acts of the Apostles 8:22 Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you.

Acts of the Apostles 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commands all men every where to repent

1 John 2:3-4, [3] And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.[4], He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him

...................

I prefer Gods' Word over your words.

Hope this is helpful

The gentiles in that passage were not following God. Where do you think they were?

Peter thought them to be unclean, and it took a vision from God for him to see otherwise.

You are presenting a false testimony. Think about what you are saying before you present it. Your works will follow you.

LoveGodsWord · Apr 3, 2021

Nathan@work said:
The gentiles in that passage were not following God. Where do you think they were?

Peter thought them to be unclean, and it took a vision from God for him to see otherwise.

You are presenting a false testimony. Think about what you are saying before you present it. Your works will follow you.

Sure these Gentile believers were following God read the scripture contexts. These gentiles believed in God and were living up to all the knowledge that God had revealed to them and the context of the scriptures you quoted says an Angel appear to them when they were praying to God....

Acts of the Apostles 10:1-4, [1] There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band, [2], A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway. [3], He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius. [4], And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.

Hope this is helpful

Leaf473 · Apr 4, 2021

imge said:
It not my place to judge and my opinion really means nothing. I honestly don’t understand your question though. I could see where you are coming from if I said I was driving my car on Sabbath to go grocery shopping, or a rock concert, but church?

I have said all along though, when people start looking for minuscule details on the Sabbath commandment and are more concerned with what you can’t do instead of focusing on the Sabbath day as a day of communion with our Savior, its taking away from the Spirit of God’s Sabbath. Just something you might want to consider praying about. God bless

That's right, we don't want to judge other people's activities. Just in general, it looks to me like the amount of work involved in driving would be the same whether it was to a church or to a shopping center.
Come to think of it, some churches are in shopping centers!

Hey, I love the idea of communing with our savior on the Sabbath. And commuting* with him everyday, which is much more possible when we're not focusing on the doodads of what is work and what isn't.

Peace be with you!

*lol Google keyboard put that in, I think I'll leave it

Leaf473 · Apr 4, 2021

imge said:
I believe this too and a gift we receive when we obey God is the Holy Spirit

Acts 5:32 And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”

It’s always good to test yourself so you won’t be deceived

To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. Isaiah 8:20

God bless

Yes, it is always good to test ourselves so we won’t be deceived.

And of course, we want to test ourselves against the intention of the law.

I know that Satan and his minions can masquerade as angels of light. But can they masquerade as the spirit that lives inside of us that cries "Father, Daddy"?

Leaf473 · Apr 4, 2021

imge said:
I believe this too and a gift we receive when we obey God is the Holy Spirit

Acts 5:32 And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”

It’s always good to test yourself so you won’t be deceived

To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. Isaiah 8:20

God bless

Also, do you believe we received the holy Spirit when we are born again?
Or is it bit by bit as we obey?

Leaf473 · Apr 4, 2021

Nathan@work said:
At least they are recognizing the law for how it was given to them.

They are in error, but it shows they are not in willful error.

I think those kind of people are ripe for harvest.

Yes, I agree.
And I think it shows what living by the letter of the law can look like.

Leaf473 · Apr 4, 2021

KingdomSermon@52 said:
The laws of God are his standard in what he has commanded us to do and follow.

According to Gods Servant servant Apostle Joshua Selman = Download All Apostle Joshua Selman Sermons Mp3 Free Messages Audio

They are his patterns we should learn and align to the patterns of God for our life. More Source www.kingdomsermons.com

Hi KingdomSermon@52,
Nice to meet you!

I think an interesting thing about God's laws is that sometimes they will mean something very different than what we might think just by looking at the words.

It turns out the commandment about muzzling an ox actually means pay the preacher!

Nathan@work · Apr 4, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
According to God's Word no one has God's Spirit unless they believe and follow God's Word as God's Spirit is the Spirit of the Word of God *John 6:63 that we are saved only as we believe and follow God's Word *John 17:17. If we say we know God and and do not keep His commandments according to 1 John 2:3-4 we are not telling the truth. According to John in 1 John 3:6-10 the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil is sin (breaking God's commandments) those who do not practice known sin are those who have been born again according to 1 John 3:6-9 and these are the ones that the scriptures teach know God. While we are told that the children of the devil are those who practice sin (breaking God's law) in 1 John 3:4-10.

Hope this is helpful.

Gods Spirit is alive and gives life to those who believe in the name of His Son.

Those who live by the written law are rejecting Christ and His death.

Those who have Gods Spirit know they do and do not need to be troubled by those who have confidence in themselves and what they think they know about the law.

Nathan@work · Apr 4, 2021

KingdomSermon@52 said:
The laws of God are his standard in what he has commanded us to do and follow.

According to Gods Servant servant Apostle Joshua Selman = Download All Apostle Joshua Selman Sermons Mp3 Free Messages Audio

They are his patterns we should learn and align to the patterns of God for our life. More Source www.kingdomsermons.com

The laws of God are His standard and prove we fall short of it - in all ways.

They pointed to Christ, who is our life.

Those who make the laws their life are rejecting Gods only Son.

Christ is our pattern, His Spirit leads us.

Nathan@work · Apr 4, 2021

Leaf473 said:
Yes, I agree.
And I think it shows what living by the letter of the law can look like.

Yes, exactly.

They put their trust in the law, as their ‘proof’ of righteousness.

They really are no different in mindset than those who claim to have Faith in Christ, but then turn to the law for their ‘proof’ of righteousness.

Living by the leading of the Spirit is totally different than that. We know our righteousness does not even remotely come from anything we do.

Our proof comes from the love we have that is so much more than ourselves. We know God is in us, because it is only His kind of love that can be coming out of us.

pescador · Apr 4, 2021

I don't understand the difficulty in understanding the Mosaic Law versus the Holy Spirit.

We are born with a sinful nature, i.e., we require an external set of rules to govern us. The key is external; the Mosaic law is not part of us. For example, our natural tendency is to take things that we want, but we have a law that tells us not to steal. We are told by God that we must not take something that belongs to somebody else, even if we want it.

When we receive the Holy Spirit we are guided internally by the very presence of God. It is in our nature not to steal; we either don't want what belongs to somebody else or else we respect that it belongs to them, not to us. We don't need an external rule to tell us not to steal.

Of course this is just one example of the Law vs the Spirit, but the principle remains. When we have the Spirit within us, He guides our behavior. We don't need a second control -- the Law -- to guide us. It's as simple as that.

pescador · Apr 4, 2021

If you want an interesting exercise try driving the speed limit or slower. If it bothers you to be told, for example, that you can't exceed 45 mph, then you're bothered by the law and you keep looking for the police and hope you won't be arrested.

On the other hand, if you naturally drive 45 mph or below then you don't need the law and there is no guilt or fear of punishment. You just feel "right" driving that speed; you don't need external controls.

It's the same principle of the Mosaic law versus the Holy Spirit. One restrains us by commanding us externally; the other guides us internally.

Why is it so difficult for some Christians to understand this basic principle?

SabbathBlessings · Apr 4, 2021

pescador said:
If you want an interesting exercise try driving the speed limit or slower. If it bothers you to be told, for example, that you can't exceed 45 mph, then you're bothered by the law and you keep looking for the police and hope you won't be arrested.

On the other hand, if you naturally drive 45 mph or below then you don't need the law and there is no guilt or fear of punishment. You just feel "right" driving that speed; you don't need external controls.

It's the same principle of the Mosaic law versus the Holy Spirit. One restrains us by commanding us externally; the other guides us internally.

Why is it so difficult for some Christians to understand this basic principle?

This only works if you're obeying the laws. As soon as you disobey, you are probably going to get a ticket. Under this scenario there are still laws that apply, they didn't go away. It’s pretty easy when you’re not paying attention, to put a little gas on the pedal and speed without even realizing it. That’s why its always best to be mindful of our actions.

Unless your rightness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees and you're obeying God's laws 100%, the verse below from Jesus's own mouth applies to all of us. If you don't agree, than you are arguing with Jesus.

Mathew 5: 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

Which is why Jesus said John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments.

Strangely, these were all stated in the New Covenant, so God's laws did not go away, we know if we have God's Spirit, because we will obey God's laws, its a FRUIT of true faith.

James 1:22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.

God bless

SabbathBlessings · Apr 4, 2021

Leaf473 said:
I believe the Hebrew word there can mean convocation, yes, also assembly or reading.

I don't think it has to be of a particular size. I think it would fit well with Jesus talking about when two or three of his followers assemble in his name.

I think that's another reason why Jewish people who want to carefully observe the letter of the Sabbath regulations tend to live in clusters.

Strong's Hebrew: 4744. מִקְרָא (miqra) -- a convocation, convoking, reading

Yes, it could be two or three or a whole church full of people with God's Spirit worshipping Him on the day He asked us to keep holy, His Sabbath.

God bless

LoveGodsWord · Apr 4, 2021

Nathan@work said:
Gods Spirit is alive and gives life to those who believe in the name of His Son.

Those who live by the written law are rejecting Christ and His death.

Those who have Gods Spirit know they do and do not need to be troubled by those who have confidence in themselves and what they think they know about the law.

I see, so in your view, Jesus says If you love me keep my commandments *John 14:15 (see also John 15:10; Matthew 5:17-20; Matthew 22:36-40 and Matthew 7:21-23) and you say no everyone keeping Gods' commandments are rejecting Christ and His death. Sorry dear friend but for me your teachings and claims here are not biblical. As posted earlier the scriptures teach that no one has God's Spirit if they are breaking Gods' commandments according to John in Paul in Acts of the Apostles 2:38; John in 1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:4-10; Revelation 14:12 and James in James 2:17-20; 26. Gods' Spirit is the Spirit of the Word of God *John 6:63 that we are saved by *John 8:31-36; John 17:17 as we have faith in God's Word *1 John 5:4. Faith does not abolish God's law as some teach. According to Paul faith establishes Gods' law *Romans 3:31.

LoveGodsWord · Apr 4, 2021

Leaf473 said:
Also, do you believe we received the holy Spirit when we are born again? Or is it bit by bit as we obey?

You seem to have a misunderstanding as to what was shared with you earlier. We receive Gods' Spirit when we believe and follow Gods' Word and have repented from our known sins *Acts of the Apostles 2:38; Proverbs 28:13; James 4:17. According to the scriptures we can also grieve or quench Gods' Spirit when we practice sin *Ephesians 4:30; 1 Thessalonians 5:19. When we receive Gods' Spirit it does not mean that we are fully grown in the knowledge of Gods' grace and his Word. Learning Gods' Word and becoming more and more like Jesus is the work of a lifetime. Being born again *1 John 3:6-9 and receiving God's Spirit *Acts of the Apostles 2:38 is only the beginning of the journey *1 Peter 2:2. Once we are born again we need to take up our cross daily *Mark 10:21 and learn of Him *Matthew 11:28-30 and follow him resisting temptations *Matthew 26:41; 1 Corinthians 10:13; Hebrews 3:8 and endure the trying of our faith. Only those who remain faithful to the end receive everlasting life *James 1:12.

Removing the laws of God- what does it really mean?

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