Removing the laws of God- what does it really mean?

SabbathBlessings · Apr 3, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Absolutely sis, we had a great Sabbath yesterday and rest in God's peace and grace, we did not go to Church but spent some time in God's nature. Hope you had a great Sabbath?

I started coming down with flu-like symptoms, so stayed home today and been reading the Bible and watching sermons online. Will definitely be going to Church next week though. Since we moved we have been trying different Churches in the area. I miss my old one, but I am sure God will lead me to the right one in this area.

God bless!

Nathan@work · Apr 3, 2021

Freth said:
My own mother used to watch the clock sometimes for the end of Sabbath, so that she could go to the store and buy cigarettes, or so that we could watch a TV show or movie. So I know what it's like to skirt the law of God. I grew up with it.

Today, I don't wait for the exact second it's officially sundown on Saturday night. I prepare foods ahead of time so that I can simply heat them up. I don't work whatsoever. Driving to church is not work, it's heading to a house of worship so you can glorify God.

Leaf hit on something, that the Holy Spirit convicts you, but you have to have the Holy Spirit in the first place and be listening to it, or, like my mother, you will not be convicted and you will break it in one form or another.

God is looking for people who want to obey Him, not people who nickel and dime Him to death. As for scoffing at His law and how it can be obeyed, I think that's treading dangerous ground, but I'm not the judge, God is.

You still choose to break the commandment even if you don’t think so.

Unless you live totally off the grid, the utilities you use on Saturday have to be maintained by someone working. I know, I work for a utility, we are staffed 24/7/365.

The command, the way you see it, is for no one to work inside your ‘gates’. Gates meaning the city/town/village where you live.

You using those things forces others to work.

Leaf473 · Apr 3, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Agreed, I was quite surprised to read this as well but there you go just like those in the days of Jesus accusing Jesus of breaking the Sabbath. I wonder how much worse it would be if we have to walk to Church like Jesus and the Apostles had to in their day?

I believe that's why they had synagogues in every village.

LoveGodsWord · Apr 3, 2021

Leaf473 said:
I believe that's why they had synagogues in every village.

They did not have Synagogues in every village. They had them in every city according to the scriptures (Acts 15:21). Those in the villages had to travel to the city.

SabbathBlessings · Apr 3, 2021

Leaf473 said:
Going to church is not a sin, it was the driving to church on the Sabbath that would not conform to the letter of the law.

But hey! I'm fine with not conforming to the letter of the law!
That's actually one of the main points I've been saying!

I know that is, which is why you are asking and have been. You can always find an excuse to disobey, that’s easy, but you’re only hurting yourself. God knows our hearts and our every thought. Driving to church to study God’s Word as He requested is not work, but you are free to believe as you wish.

Leaf473 · Apr 3, 2021

imge said:
Sabbath is a day of of holy convocation. Leviticus 23:3

Con·vo·ca·tion
/ˌkänvəˈkāSH(ə)n/

noun

1.
a large formal assembly of people.

I believe the Hebrew word there can mean convocation, yes, also assembly or reading.

I don't think it has to be of a particular size. I think it would fit well with Jesus talking about when two or three of his followers assemble in his name.

I think that's another reason why Jewish people who want to carefully observe the letter of the Sabbath regulations tend to live in clusters.

Strong's Hebrew: 4744. מִקְרָא (miqra) -- a convocation, convoking, reading

LoveGodsWord · Apr 3, 2021

Leaf473 said:
I include many quotes from the scriptures in my posts. I don't usually put the chapter and verse.

Dividing the Bible into chapters is a Catholic tradition, further dividing it into verses is a church of England tradition (at least that's what I've read).

Stretch, clarify, bend, break... I could have used any of these words when talking about driving on the Sabbath. I want to use words that will open people up for further discussion as opposed to hardening them into their position.

Then as posted earlier your best to provide scripture for your view rather than your opinion because the difference as to what is true and what is not true when people have different opinions is always the God's Word. *Romans 3:4

Leaf473 · Apr 3, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
And is Jesus telling the sick man to take up His bed on the Sabbath and go home also breaking the Sabbath in your view? I am sorry Leaf I do not see driving a car to Church on the Sabbath as breaking the Sabbath. You have no scripture to support your view here just as the Scribes and the Pharisees had no scripture to support their view that Jesus was breaking the Sabbath. So we will agree to disagree. I will ask the question however, why do you seek to cast judgements on those who keep the Sabbath by breaking the Sabbath? (see Romans 2:21-23)

I don't think Jesus telling the man to carry his mat on the Sabbath was breaking the sabbath, I think it was showing that God wants us to follow the intention of the commandment, the spirit of the law, if you will.

I do not see driving to church on the Sabbath as breaking the sabbath, either! So we agree there.

But neither do I see helping a neighbor with a non-emergency repair on a fence on Saturday as breaking the Sabbath.

And actually, I think the important thing is not to judge one another as to how we go about keeping or fulfilling the Sabbath. And there's lots of scriptures about that, I think we both agree!

Freth · Apr 3, 2021

Nathan@work said:
You still choose to break the commandment even if you don’t think so.

Unless you live totally off the grid, the utilities you use on Saturday have to be maintained by someone working. I know, I work for a utility, we are staffed 24/7/365.

The command, the way you see it, is for no one to work inside your ‘gates’. Gates meaning the city/town/village where you live.

You using those things forces others to work.

I just retired from a 30 year career as a network technician for one of the biggest telecommunications companies in the world. I was on call 24/7. I'm intimately aware of utility work and the Sabbath. I lived it as a career.

As for what is breaking the Sabbath and what isn't, that's up to each man's conscience, as per the Holy Spirit (as my last post stated).

ETA: To not obey it at all because you think you can't obey it. That's not an excuse in my view. You can go completely off-grid if you so choose. I think you're trying to lay guilt where there isn't any.

Leaf473 · Apr 3, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
I am sorry Leaf I respectfully disagree and I have provided the scriptures already showing when we are held accountable for sin already and that our growth in God's grace comes from a knowledge of the truth of His Word where as you have not provided any scripture for your claims here so we will agree to disagree because for me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them according to Romans 3:4 and Acts of the Apostles 5:29.

I agree that god holds us accountable for sin and that our growth in God's grace comes from a knowledge of the truth of His Word as we are guided by the Spirit, which I assume is what you are saying.

I'll be happy to provide a scripture reference if you like. Which particular point did you want the scripture reference to deal with?

LoveGodsWord · Apr 3, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
And is Jesus telling the sick man to take up His bed on the Sabbath and go home also breaking the Sabbath in your view? I am sorry Leaf I do not see driving a car to Church on the Sabbath as breaking the Sabbath. You have no scripture to support your view here just as the Scribes and the Pharisees had no scripture to support their view that Jesus was breaking the Sabbath. So we will agree to disagree. I will ask the question however, why do you seek to cast judgements on those who keep the Sabbath by breaking the Sabbath? (see Romans 2:21-23)

Your response here...

Leaf473 said:
I don't think Jesus telling the man to carry his mat on the Sabbath was breaking the sabbath, I think it was showing that God wants us to follow the intention of the commandment, the spirit of the law, if you will. I do not see driving to church on the Sabbath as breaking the sabbath, either! So we agree there. But neither do I see helping a neighbor with a non-emergency repair on a fence on Saturday as breaking the Sabbath. And actually, I think the important thing is not to judge one another as to how we go about keeping or fulfilling the Sabbath. And there's lots of scriptures about that, I think we both agree!

The point I was trying to make in the post you are quoting from is that those around Jesus accused Jesus of breaking the Sabbath because of their man-made teachings surrounding the Sabbath. Which was pointed to your claim in regards to driving to church on the Sabbath. Of course Jesus did not break the Sabbath. If you claim here that we should not judge each other about how we keep the Sabbath why were you claiming driving to Church on the Sabbath was breaking the Sabbath? Yet ironically you do not even keep the Sabbath right?

Leaf473 · Apr 3, 2021

Nathan@work said:
You still choose to break the commandment even if you don’t think so.

Unless you live totally off the grid, the utilities you use on Saturday have to be maintained by someone working. I know, I work for a utility, we are staffed 24/7/365.

The command, the way you see it, is for no one to work inside your ‘gates’. Gates meaning the city/town/village where you live.

You using those things forces others to work.

I've read of strictly observant Jewish people who won't flip a light switch on the Sabbath.

Leaf473 · Apr 3, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
They did not have Synagogues in every village. They had them in every city according to the scriptures (Acts 15:21). Those in the villages had to travel to the city.

I think I remember Jesus teaching in the synagogues in the areas in Galilee and places like that. My impression was that these were small villages by our standards. I'm not sure what would qualify as a city back then, we might call it a village.

Leaf473 · Apr 3, 2021

imge said:
I know that is, which is why you are asking and have been. You can always find an excuse to disobey, that’s easy, but you’re only hurting yourself. God knows our hearts and our every thought. Driving to church to study God’s Word as He requested is not work, but you are free to believe as you wish.

When you say
"You can always find an excuse to disobey..."
it sounds to me as though you are rendering a judgment. I am fine with not judging you about driving on the Sabbath. Are you fine with not judging me?

I think you are fine with not judging, I sense that you have been walking with the Lord for a long time!

Leaf473 · Apr 3, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Then as posted earlier your best to provide scripture for your view rather than your opinion because the difference as to what is true and what is not true when people have different opinions is always the God's Word. *Romans 3:4

I do provide scriptures, just not the chapter and verse references that were added by humans later on.

Leaf473 · Apr 3, 2021

Freth said:
I just retired from a 30 year career as a network technician for one of the biggest telecommunications companies in the world. I was on call 24/7. I'm intimately aware of utility work and the Sabbath. I lived it as a career.

As for what is breaking the Sabbath and what isn't, that's up to each man's conscience, as per the Holy Spirit (as my last post stated).

ETA: To not obey it at all because you think you can't obey it. That's not an excuse in my view. You can go completely off-grid if you so choose. I think you're trying to lay guilt where there isn't any.

Huge Amen to this part
"As for what is breaking the Sabbath and what isn't, that's up to each man's conscience, as per the Holy Spirit (as my last post stated)."

Leaf473 · Apr 3, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Your response here...

The point I was trying to make in the post you are quoting from is that those around Jesus accused Jesus of breaking the Sabbath because of their man-made teachings surrounding the Sabbath. Which was pointed to your claim in regards to driving to church on the Sabbath. Of course Jesus did not break the Sabbath. If you claim here that we should not judge each other about how we keep the Sabbath why were you claiming driving to Church on the Sabbath was breaking the Sabbath? Yet ironically you do not even keep the Sabbath right?

It was a way of facilitating discussion.

I was basically saying that using the standard that I hear you (not you in particular) using, here is an outcome that conflicts with something else that you are doing.

And I think it's really open the things up, now we are talking about going with the intention of the law, the spirit of the law instead of the letter.

And also we are talking about not judging

SabbathBlessings · Apr 3, 2021

Leaf473 said:
When you say
"You can always find an excuse to disobey..."
it sounds to me as though you are rendering a judgment. I am fine with not judging you about driving on the Sabbath. Are you fine with not judging me?

I think you are fine with not judging, I sense that you have been walking with the Lord for a long time!

It not my place to judge and my opinion really means nothing. I honestly don’t understand your question though. I could see where you are coming from if I said I was driving my car on Sabbath to go grocery shopping, or a rock concert, but church?

I have said all along though, when people start looking for minuscule details on the Sabbath commandment and are more concerned with what you can’t do instead of focusing on the Sabbath day as a day of communion with our Savior, its taking away from the Spirit of God’s Sabbath. Just something you might want to consider praying about. God bless

SabbathBlessings · Apr 3, 2021

Leaf473 said:
Huge Amen to this part
"As for what is breaking the Sabbath and what isn't, that's up to each man's conscience, as per the Holy Spirit (as my last post stated)."

I believe this too and a gift we receive when we obey God is the Holy Spirit

Acts 5:32 And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”

It’s always good to test yourself so you won’t be deceived

To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. Isaiah 8:20

God bless

Nathan@work · Apr 3, 2021

Freth said:
I just retired from a 30 year career as a network technician for one of the biggest telecommunications companies in the world. I was on call 24/7. I'm intimately aware of utility work and the Sabbath. I lived it as a career.

As for what is breaking the Sabbath and what isn't, that's up to each man's conscience, as per the Holy Spirit (as my last post stated).

ETA: To not obey it at all because you think you can't obey it. That's not an excuse in my view. You can go completely off-grid if you so choose. I think you're trying to lay guilt where there isn't any.

Ah, so we have something in common. Except I am not retired yet.

I am simply stating the facts.

I do think you are not completely sold over because you are aware that it is the Spirit who leads us, not the letter of the law.

For that, I am grateful. Thank you.

Removing the laws of God- what does it really mean?

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