Removing the laws of God- what does it really mean?

Leaf473

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Your response here...


Hi Leaf, the point of the scriptures provided in the post you are quoting from is to show that according to the scriptures Christian growth starts off as we are babes in Christ not knowing much of the Word of God and at these times God only holds us accountable to what we know not what we do not know *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; James 4:17. As we continue in God's Word Jesus says we are His disciples in John 8:31-36 and the promise is that the truth will free us from our sins. We should note here that being a disciple of Jesus is conditional on continuing in God's Word. That is seeking to know God through the scriptures and seeking to follow what God's Word says *Matthew 7:21. John 8:31-36 and John 17:17 along with John 6:63 are also more evidence along with all the scriptures provided in the post you are quoting from that Christian growth or as some call "sanctification" is a work of the lifetime as we continue learning of God through His Word we become more and more like Jesus as we seek by faith to follow what Jesus teaches us. So this is a continual process according to the scriptures as we live up to all the knowledge that God has revealed to us and continues to reveal to us as we seek Him through His Word. God's laws are written on our hear to love as God makes us aware of them as we seek Him through His Word.

God bless
It sounds like your answer is yes, the process of God putting his law deep inside of us and writing it on our hearts is a slow process.

I see it differently. I believe that when we are born again, God puts his law, his Torah, his way, deep inside of us. Then it takes a lifetime for our habits and lifestyles to conform to God's way written inside of us.

So we definitely see it differently there.

This is a bit off topic from the thread, though it may relate
Do you believe a person is born again and becomes a new creation basically all at once? Or is that a very slow process too, likely over many years or a lifetime?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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To say it is not a sin to drive to church sounds to me like a real stretch of the "no work" part of the commandment.
Also the "no kindling fires" law.

Strict Jewish people live within a short walk of their synagogue, so it's very possible to build a community where people don't have to drive on the Sabbath.

But I'm fine with stretching the commandment, not being uptight about it, as the spirit leads.

I think it's good, then, to extend that same grace to other people who want to stretch the commandment to say that it is fulfilled by resting from our works, trying to achieve righteousness on our own.

Where does it say we cannot drive to Church on the Sabbath? Is it lawful to do good on the Sabbath *Matthew 12:1-12? Did Jesus and the Apostles travel to Church on the Sabbath? Seems to me like a short drive to Church is less work than walking in my view. I think we need to be careful not to put our own laws (man-made) around the Sabbath like the Scribes and the Pharisees did in the days of Jesus when Jesus healed a man on the Sabbath and told him to arise take up his bed and go home and sin not more.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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It sounds like your answer is yes, the process of God putting his law deep inside of us and writing it on our hearts is a slow process.

I see it differently. I believe that when we are born again, God puts his law, his Torah, his way, deep inside of us. Then it takes a lifetime for our habits and lifestyles to conform to God's way written inside of us.

So we definitely see it differently there.

This is a bit off topic from the thread, though it may relate
Do you believe a person is born again and becomes a new creation basically all at once? Or is that a very slow process too, likely over many years or a lifetime?
Your view then would not be biblical as shown in the scriptures shared with you in the last three posts. God does not hold us accountable for sin until we receive a knowledge of what sin is *James 4:17; Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31 and this comes only as we continue in His Word *John 8:31-36; John 6:63; John 17:17. It is only after we receive a knowledge of the truth of Gods' Word and choose to reject it in order to continue in known unrepentant sin according to the scriptures that God holds us accountable for sin according to Hebrews 10:26-31. At this point in time Gods if we reject God's Word according to these scriptures in order to continue in sin we are in danger of the judgement.
 
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Leaf473

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I’m sorry Leaf, commandments cannot be stretched.

Any stretch and they break. Ask Moses. :)
I hear what you're saying.

I try to use the vocabulary that will make sense to the destination audience :)
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I hear what you're saying. I try to use the vocabulary that will make sense to the destination audience :)

If you want to use vocabulary that will make sense to the destination audience your best to provide scripture for what you believe. For me as an example, as a Christian only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them according to the scriptures in Romans 3:4 and Acts of the Apostles 5:29
 
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SabbathBlessings

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To say it is not a sin to drive to church sounds to me like a real stretch of the "no work" part of the commandment.
Also the "no kindling fires" law.

Strict Jewish people live within a short walk of their synagogue, so it's very possible to build a community where people don't have to drive on the Sabbath.

But I'm fine with stretching the commandment, not being uptight about it, as the spirit leads.

I think it's good, then, to extend that same grace to other people who want to stretch the commandment to say that it is fulfilled by resting from our works, trying to achieve righteousness on our own.
Honestly, I am amazed how people are trying to make an argument about obeying God, His Word His laws and going to church is now a sin.
 
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Leaf473

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Where does it say we cannot drive to Church on the Sabbath? Is it lawful to do good on the Sabbath *Matthew 12:1-12? Did Jesus and the Apostles travel to Church on the Sabbath? Seems to me like a short drive to Church is less work than walking in my view. I think we need to be careful not to put our own laws (man-made) around the Sabbath like the Scribes and the Pharisees did in the days of Jesus when Jesus healed a man on the Sabbath and told him to arise take up his bed and go home and sin not more.
It is not stated in the commandment that you cannot drive to church. It is stated that you are to do no work.

I believe my sister @imge had said earlier in the thread that it would be wrong to help a neighbor with a non-emergency repair her fence on the Sabbath.

So it seems to me that using that same standard, it would also be wrong to drive on the Sabbath.

I believe in the scriptures there is the concept of a Sabbath Day's journey, I think that's in the book of Acts. I could see how a half mile walk in pleasant weather (very common in the Middle East) would be refreshing and fit well with not working.

But a 20-minute drive? In traffic? Especially if you had to buckle your squirmy kids in their car seats before you left? I remember those days, I used to arrive at church exhausted :)

I had brought up the same issue of Jesus saying that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath. I asked @imge if that meant good work. If I remember right, her response was the doing good did not qualify as work.

Big picture, as I see it:
Do we decide how to go about fulfilling the no work clause of the commandment? Does God's spirit instruct us in this decision?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Honestly, I am amazed how people are trying to make an argument about obeying God, His Word His laws and going to church is now a sin.
Agreed, I was quite surprised to read this as well but there you go just like those in the days of Jesus accusing Jesus of breaking the Sabbath. I wonder how much worse it would be if we have to walk to Church like Jesus and the Apostles had to in their day?
 
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SabbathBlessings

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It is not stated in the commandment that you cannot drive to church. It is stated that you are to do no work.

I believe my sister @imge had said earlier in the thread that it would be wrong to help a neighbor with a non-emergency repair her fence on the Sabbath.

So it seems to me that using that same standard, it would also be wrong to drive on the Sabbath.

I believe in the scriptures there is the concept of a Sabbath Day's journey, I think that's in the book of Acts. I could see how a half mile walk in pleasant weather (very common in the Middle East) would be refreshing and fit well with not working.

But a 20-minute drive? In traffic? Especially if you had to buckle your squirmy kids in their car seats before you left? I remember those days, I used to arrive at church exhausted :)

I had brought up the same issue of Jesus saying that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath. I asked @imge if that meant good work. If I remember right, her response was the doing good did not qualify as work.

Big picture, as I see it:
Do we decide how to go about fulfilling the no work clause of the commandment? Does God's spirit instruct us in this decision?
Sabbath is a day of of holy convocation. Leviticus 23:3

Con·vo·ca·tion
/ˌkänvəˈkāSH(ə)n/

noun
  1. 1.
    a large formal assembly of people.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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It is not stated in the commandment that you cannot drive to church. It is stated that you are to do no work.
And is Jesus telling the sick man to take up His bed on the Sabbath and go home also breaking the Sabbath in your view? I am sorry Leaf I do not see driving a car to Church on the Sabbath as breaking the Sabbath. You have no scripture to support your view here just as the Scribes and the Pharisees had no scripture to support their view that Jesus was breaking the Sabbath. So we will agree to disagree. I will ask the question however, why do you seek to cast judgements on those who keep the Sabbath by breaking the Sabbath? (see Romans 2:21-23)
 
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Leaf473

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Your view then would not be biblical as shown in the scriptures shared with you in the last three posts. God does not hold us accountable for sin until we receive a knowledge of what sin is *James 4:17; Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31 and this comes only as we continue in His Word *John 8:31-36; John 6:63; John 17:17. It is only after we receive a knowledge of the truth of Gods' Word and choose to reject it in order to continue in known unrepentant sin according to the scriptures that God holds us accountable for sin according to Hebrews 10:26-31. At this point in time Gods if we reject God's Word according to these scriptures in order to continue in sin we are in danger of the judgement.
I believe my view is fully in line with the scriptures. What God puts in us is not a string of words but a set of ideas, an approach, a lifestyle.

What God holds us accountable for is transforming our habits and lifestyle to match with what he has imprinted deep inside of us. Step by step we are conformed to the image of his son.

I don't think that I have ever loved God with everything that is in me. But every day I get a little bit closer as the old guy is put to death.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Agreed, I was quite surprised to read this nonsense as well but there you go just like those in the days of Jesus accusing Jesus of breaking the Sabbath. I wonder how much worse it would be if we have to walk to Church like Jesus and the Apostles had to in their day?
This forum just reinforces how it will be in the last days. The total disdain for God’s true Sabbath and for those who worship Him on it. It’s amazing how accurate the Bible is. God is good though and hope you had a great Sabbath!
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I believe my view is fully in line with the scriptures. What God puts in us is not a string of words but a set of ideas, an approach, a lifestyle.

What God holds us accountable for is transforming our habits and lifestyle to match with what he has imprinted deep inside of us. Step by step we are conformed to the image of his son.

I don't think that I have ever loved God with everything that is in me. But every day I get a little bit closer as the old guy is put to death.

I am sorry Leaf I respectfully disagree and I have provided the scriptures already showing when we are held accountable for sin already and that our growth in God's grace comes from a knowledge of the truth of His Word where as you have not provided any scripture for your claims here so we will agree to disagree because for me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them according to Romans 3:4 and Acts of the Apostles 5:29.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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This forum just reinforces how it will be in the last days. The total disdain for God’s true Sabbath and for those who worship Him on it. It’s amazing how accurate the Bible is. God is good though and hope you had a great Sabbath!
Absolutely sis, we had a great Sabbath yesterday and rest in God's peace and grace, we did not go to Church but spent some time in God's nature. Hope you had a great Sabbath?
 
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Nathan@work

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Past sins yes! Christ has set us free if we through faith believe Gods' Word and repent from our sins *John 3:16; Acts of the Apostles 2:38. God's salvation is conditional according to the scriptures on believing Gods' Word and following what God says *Matthew 7:21-23. God's Spirit teaches us through his Word because he is the Spirit of the Word of God not outside or separate to God's revealed Word according to the scriptures (see John 6:63; John 17:17; John 8:31-36)

Past, present, future. Sin no longer holds a child of God.

John 8:34-38 (ESV) Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. I know that you are offspring of Abraham; yet you seek to kill me because my word finds no place in you. I speak of what I have seen with my Father, and you do what you have heard from your father.”
 
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Nathan@work

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I hear what you're saying.

I try to use the vocabulary that will make sense to the destination audience :)
I figured. Just don’t want the viewing only audience to get the wrong impression. :)
 
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Freth

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My own mother used to watch the clock sometimes for the end of Sabbath, so that she could go to the store and buy cigarettes, or so that we could watch a TV show or movie. So I know what it's like to skirt the law of God. I grew up with it.

Today, I don't wait for the exact second it's officially sundown on Saturday night. I prepare foods ahead of time so that I can simply heat them up. I don't work whatsoever. Driving to church is not work, it's heading to a house of worship so you can glorify God.

Leaf hit on something, that the Holy Spirit convicts you, but you have to have the Holy Spirit in the first place and be listening to it, or, like my mother, you will not be convicted and you will break it in one form or another.

God is looking for people who want to obey Him, not people who nickel and dime Him to death. As for scoffing at His law and how it can be obeyed, I think that's treading dangerous ground, but I'm not the judge, God is.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Past, present, future. Sin no longer holds a child of God.
This claim here is not biblical according to the scriptures *1 John 1:9; Proverbs 28:13. No one is a child of God if they are knowingly breaking Gods' commandments according to 1 John 2:3-4. John actually calls these "children of the devil" in 1 John 3:6-10
 
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Leaf473

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If you want to use vocabulary that will make sense to the destination audience your best to provide scripture for what you believe. For me as an example, as a Christian only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them according to the scriptures in Romans 3:4 and Acts of the Apostles 5:29
I include many quotes from the scriptures in my posts. I don't usually put the chapter and verse.

Dividing the Bible into chapters is a Catholic tradition, further dividing it into verses is a church of England tradition (at least that's what I've read).

Stretch, clarify, bend, break... I could have used any of these words when talking about driving on the Sabbath. I want to use words that will open people up for further discussion as opposed to hardening them into their position.
 
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Leaf473

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Honestly, I am amazed how people are trying to make an argument about obeying God, His Word His laws and going to church is now a sin.
Going to church is not a sin, it was the driving to church on the Sabbath that would not conform to the letter of the law.

But hey! I'm fine with not conforming to the letter of the law!
That's actually one of the main points I've been saying!
 
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