Do you believe this?

Saint Steven · Apr 3, 2021

AubreyM said:
-shrugs-

Hope you all are having a good day.

Don't know and don't care?

This is your topic. Get on this horse and ride it. - lol

Der Alte · Apr 3, 2021

Saint Steven said:
* * *

Saint Steven said:
It's already a done deal.

Saint Steven said:
Romans 5:18-19
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Paul used the word " πολλοι/polloi"/"many," 71 times.
Paul used the word "πας/pas"/"all," 375 times
When Paul wanted to say “all” he used "pas," not "polloi"/”many.”
Paul used “oi polloi”/”the many” 12 times where it clearly does not mean "all."
Romans 12:5, Romans 15:22-23, Romans 16:2,1 Corinthians 10:17, 1 Corinthians 10:33, 2 Corinthians 2:17, 2 Corinthians 8:15, Ephesians 2:4, Colossians 4:13, 1 Timothy 3:13
In one verse 1 Cor 10:33 Paul used “the many,” once, and “all,” twice, in the same verse.

1 Corinthians 10:33
33 Even as I please all [παντα] men in all [πασιν] things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many [των πολλων], that they may be saved.

Paul certainly did not please every person alive during his lifetime.
Paul certainly did not literally please all men in literally all things.

Saint Steven · Apr 3, 2021

Albion said:
So why doesn't this say that ALL will be made righteous, not just "the many?"

Rather than prove Universalism, this proves the opposite, that not all will in fact be saved.

Not so. This is a conditional statement. Note the "just as" and the "so also".

How many were made sinners by the disobedience of the one man? "the many" = all
How many will be made righteous by the obedience of the one man? Again, "the many" = all

Romans 5:19
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Der Alte · Apr 3, 2021

Saint Steven said:
* * *

Saint Steven said:
All means all. Here is an explanation of one of the verses above by @public hermit
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1 Corinthians 15:22 explained by Public Hermit
This is essentially a conditional statement.
It is upon the basis that all die in Adam that all also are made alive in Christ. Or better, if all had not died in Adam, then there would have been no need to make all (or any) alive in Christ.
If all died in Adam, then all are made alive in Christ.
The same set of people are being referenced in both the antecedent and the consequent. So, if "all" doesn't mean all in the consequent, then it doesn't mean all in the antecedent.
Modus tollens: If all are not made alive in Christ, then all did not die in Adam.
But, of course, all did die in Adam (according to the fans of eternal torment).
Therefore, all means all in both instances.
1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

All mankind are "in Adam" since all mankind are literally descendants of Adam.
All mankind are NOT "in Christ."
There is a condition for being made alive.

Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

NOT “in Christ””in Him” NOT gathered together in one.

Romans 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

NOT “in Christ” NO redemption.

Romans 8:1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

“Walk after the flesh” NOT “in Christ” there IS condemnation.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

NOT “in Christ” NOT free from the law of sin and death.

Romans 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

NOT “in Christ” NOT a member of the body.

1 Corinthians 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

NOT “in Christ” NO sanctification, NO redemption.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Not “in Christ” old things NOT passed away NOT made new.

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

NOT “in Christ” NOT children of God.

Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

NOT “in Christ” NOT ”made nigh” still far off.

2 Timothy 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

NOT “in Christ” NO promise of life.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

NOT “in Christ” NO salvation.

2 Timothy 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

NOT “in Christ” NO salvation.

Albion · Apr 3, 2021

Saint Steven said:
Not so. This is a conditional statement. Note the "just as" and the "so also".

Those words do not suggest that anything is merely conditional.

How many will be made righteous by the obedience of the one man? Again, "the many" = all

Interesting enough, history's two most famous and influential Bible translations--the Authorized Version and the Douay-Rheims Version--render it as "many," not "the many."

Not surprisingly, a number of "modern language" translations offer a variety of different meanings.

Saint Steven · Apr 3, 2021

Albion said:
Those words do not suggest that anything is merely conditional.

Interesting enough, history's two most famous and influential Bible translations--the Authorized Version and the Douay-Rheims Version--render it as "many," not "the many."

Not surprisingly, a number of "modern language" translations offer a variety of different meanings.

Yes, those who attack this scripture usually do so by attempting to discredit it with the word "many" in verse nineteen. How do you discredit verse eighteen? Harder to weasel out of that one. - lol

Romans 5:18-19
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

AubreyM · Apr 3, 2021

Don’t got time to care to argue, waste of time.

So it doesn’t bother me if someone doesn’t understand.

Everyone has a right to their own view point.

Not everyone will agree with your viewpoint.

The Goal isn’t the end viewpoint yet the focal point and that is Christ Jesus and the Liberty of the spirit for others to have their own thoughts and their own opinions.

God can only change the heart, we as people can not, yet only present what our viewpoint is and why.

To fight about it is a waste of time, and breathe.

If you can’t love each other despite differences then there is a problem in the heart.

Ceallaigh · Apr 3, 2021

Der Alte said:
You said it dude. I have taught for more than 50 years nobody has ever accused me of being too complicated to understand.
I wonder if the three quotes from Greek grammars was too difficult for you.

This isn't a classroom. Or a textbook. It's a flow of multiple conversations via text. I'm sure I'm not the only person who's told you tl;dr/tmi. I'm sure due to your familiarity "(Kühner-G. II 221–23; Schwyzer II 317; Mlt. 187–92 [a thorough treatment of NT usage]; B-D-F §365; RLudwig: D. prophet. Wort 31 ’37, 272–79; JLee, NovT 27, ’85, 18–23; B-D-F §365.—Pla., Hdt. et al. [Kühner-G. loc. cit.]; SIG 1042, 16; POxy 119, 5, 14f; 903, 16; PGM 5, 279; 13, 321; LXX; TestAbr A 8 p. 85, 11 [Stone p. 46]; JosAs 20:3; GrBar 1:7; ApcEsdr 2:7; Just., D. 141, 2). οὐ μή is the most decisive way of negativing something in the future. Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000)A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian Literature.(3rd Ed). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
● The combinations with οὐ μή also be noticed as, ουδεν οὐ μή (Lu. 10:19); οὐ μή se σε άνο ουδ ου σε εγκαταιπο (Heb. 13:5); ουκετι οὐ μή (Rev. 18:14)" doesn't look like a hodgepodge to you, but I'm sure it does to most others. My brother used to crank out scientific material about aeronautics and astrophysics to the general public, and he said the key to making it reader friendly, was to write it for "soccer moms". My guess is most people skip over your posts and thus you're writing them in vain.

Saint Steven · Apr 3, 2021

AubreyM said:
Don’t got time to care to argue, waste of time.

So it doesn’t bother me if someone doesn’t understand.

Everyone has a right to their own view point.

Not everyone will agree with your viewpoint.

The Goal isn’t the end viewpoint yet the focal point and that is Christ Jesus and the Liberty of the spirit for others to have their own thoughts and their own opinions.

God can only change the heart, we as people can not, yet only present what our viewpoint is and why.

To fight about it is a waste of time, and breathe.

If you can’t love each other despite differences then there is a problem in the heart.

What did your shrug indicate?

Saint Steven · Apr 3, 2021

MMXX said:
This isn't a classroom. Or a textbook. It's a flow of multiple conversations via text. I'm sure I'm not the only person who's told you tl;dr/tmi. I'm sure due to your familiarity "(Kühner-G. II 221–23; Schwyzer II 317; Mlt. 187–92 [a thorough treatment of NT usage]; B-D-F §365; RLudwig: D. prophet. Wort 31 ’37, 272–79; JLee, NovT 27, ’85, 18–23; B-D-F §365.—Pla., Hdt. et al. [Kühner-G. loc. cit.]; SIG 1042, 16; POxy 119, 5, 14f; 903, 16; PGM 5, 279; 13, 321; LXX; TestAbr A 8 p. 85, 11 [Stone p. 46]; JosAs 20:3; GrBar 1:7; ApcEsdr 2:7; Just., D. 141, 2). οὐ μή is the most decisive way of negativing something in the future. Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000)A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian Literature.(3rd Ed). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
● The combinations with οὐ μή also be noticed as, ουδεν οὐ μή (Lu. 10:19); οὐ μή se σε άνο ουδ ου σε εγκαταιπο (Heb. 13:5); ουκετι οὐ μή (Rev. 18:14)" doesn't look like a hodgepodge to you, but I'm sure it does to most others. My brother used to crank out scientific material about aeronautics and astrophysics to the general public, and he said the key to making it reader friendly, was to write it for "soccer moms".

We can play that game too. But in much more easily digestible form. Calling all soccer Moms! - lol

aionios, the Greek word translated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in the Bible (eternal hell?)

Saint Steven · Apr 3, 2021

Albion said:
Interesting enough, history's two most famous and influential Bible translations--the Authorized Version and the Douay-Rheims Version--render it as "many," not "the many."

Yes, that is interesting. That would limit the number that "were made sinners" to less than all, and increase the number that will be made righteous to "all". Very interesting indeed. Not sure that helps your argument. - lol

Do you actually believe that those who were made sinners through the disobedience of the one man was not all? Therefore all are not sinners? (probably not)

Romans 5:19
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Ceallaigh · Apr 3, 2021

Saint Steven said:
We can play that game too. But in much more easily digestible form. Calling all soccer Moms! - lol

aionios, the Greek word translated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in the Bible (eternal hell?)

Now that's actually informative.

AubreyM · Apr 3, 2021

-shrugs

because in life we can make choices.

You know, believe if was having conversations with who ever it is you are talking to, would try to present my case, instead of fighting scripture vs scripture, and if they don’t like the view they don’t have too.

Freedom and liberty in Christ Jesus is a very dominant thing in a believers life.

Does this mean use their freedom to indulge in sinful and malicious ways, no God forbid.

There are people who become new Christians at age of 59 or more, and all they know is what they have been taught by whoever brought the message along to them.

There are some so set in their ways they simply won’t consider a new way, or change of views.

Not everyone will accept your view and in fact they will work hard at trying to disprove you.

For what reason?

To have a simple win.

Some though if they are truly seeking for truth in what God desires for us to know will in this life continue to seek for truth.

Which is ultimately God so loved the world (kosmos) that he sent his only begotten son, to die for every single human being on this planet.

Sin has been rectified by the blood shed of the Lord Jesus Christ unto the whole world.

All people have had their sins paid for,

All people are going to be resurrected either with condemned spiritual body or a spiritual body full of life, (there are two resurrection).

Not all people are going to be going into the kingdom of God.

There will be people who will be on the outside of the Kingdom, and there will be some on the inside of the kingdom.

This is my own personal viewpoint and belief when it comes down to what the Bible and what it has to say.

Jesus Christ overcame she’ol (hell), Satan, death, and Sin (for the whole world (all people))

The lake of fire was meant for Satan and his Angel, and in my view point no one is going to the lake of fire to burn for eternity.

If you question why these things are in my viewpoint, just keep asking God to help you, to understand and lead you to the truth of these matters and search your heart and keep reading and growing in knowledge of God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Revelation 22 shares and and shows those who are believers now in this earth going into the kingdom, but those who are without because of unbelief are outside of the kingdom because they loved sin more than they ever loved God or his Son Jesus Christ the Lord and Saviour of all people now today, and forever.

The choice is to believe now, while you can and enjoy the beneficial relationship of having God there and for you in life.

Take care.

Saint Steven · Apr 3, 2021

AubreyM said:
The lake of fire was meant for Satan and his Angel, and in my view point no one is going to the lake of fire to burn for eternity.

Does that mean you are an Annihilationist? There will be nothing left of those God incinerates?

Der Alte · Apr 3, 2021

Saint Steven said:
***

Saint Steven said:
We can play that game too. But in much more easily digestible form. Calling all soccer Moms! - lol

Saint Steven said:
aionios, the Greek word translated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in the Bible (eternal hell?)
[Media Omitted]

Media omitted, anonymous persons with no stated expertise in Greek giving their unsupported opinion.
Anyone can find a video or blog online that will support almost anything.
“aionios” occurs 72x in the N.T.
“aionios” is translated world only 5 times in the N.T.
“……….”….”………eternal 42 times in the N.T.
“……….”….”………everlasting 25 times in the N.T.
Jesus used “aionios” twenty eight [28] times Jesus never uses “aionios” to refer to something ordinary/mundane which was not/could not be “eternal.”
= = = = = = = = = =
In twenty four [24] of the following verses aion and aionios are defined/described as eternal, everlasting, eternity etc, by paralleling or juxtaposition with other adjectives or adjectival phrases.
= = = = = = = = = =
…..Some people claim that “aion/aionios” never means eternity/eternal because they sometimes refer to things which are not eternal.
However, neither word is ever defined/described, by other adjectives or adjectival phrases, as meaning a period of time less than eternal, in the New Testament, as in the following verses.
…..Jesus used “aionios” twenty eight [28] times. He never used “aionios” to refer to anything ordinary or mundane that was not or could not be eternal.
…..In the following ten verses Jesus defines “aionios” as “eternal.”

[1] Luke 1:33
(33) And he shall reign [basileusei][Vb] over the house of Jacob for ever; [aionas] and of his kingdom [basileias][Nn] there shall be no end.[telos]

In this verse the reign/basileusei, which is the verb form of the word, is "aionas" and of the kingdom/basileias, the noun form of the same word, "there shall be no end.” “Aionas” by definition here means eternal.

[2] John 6:58
(58) This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.[aionios]

In this verse Jesus juxtaposes “aionios life” with “death.” If “live aionios” is only a finite period, a finite period is not opposite “death.” Thus “aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”

[3] John 10:28
(28) I give them eternal [aionios] life, and they shall never [aion] perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

In this verse Jesus parallels “aionios” and “aion” with “[not] snatch them out of my hand.” If “aion/aionios” means “age(s), a finite period,” that is not the opposite of “[not] snatch them out of my hand’” “Aionios life” by definition here means “eternal life.”

[4]John 3:15
(15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal [aionion] life.
[5] John 3:16
(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting [aionion] life.

In these two verses Jesus parallels “aionion” with “should not perish.” Believers could eventually perish in a finite period, thus by definition “aionion life” here means eternal or everlasting life.

[6]John 5:24
(24) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting [aionios] life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

In this verse Jesus parallels “aionios” with “shall not come into condemnation” and “passed from death unto life.” “Aionios” does not mean “a finite period,” by definition here it means “eternal,” unless Jesus lets His followers come into condemnation and pass into death.

[7]John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting [aionios] life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

In this verse Jesus juxtaposed aionios life with “shall not see life.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall not see life” By definition aionios means eternal.

[8]John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never [ου μη/ou mé] thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting [aionios] life.

In this verse Jesus paralleled aionios with “shall [ου μη/ou mé][fn] never thirst.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall never thirst.” By definition aionios means eternal. See note [fn] on “ou mé” below.

[9]John 6:27
(27) Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting [aionios] life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

In this verse Jesus contrasted “aionios meat” with “meat that perishes” If aionios means an indefinite age, that is not opposite “meat that perishes.” By definition aionios means eternal.

[10]John 8:51
(51) Very truly [amen amen] I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never [ou mé eis ton aiona][fn] see death."

Paul used the word “aionios” twenty three [23] times. It is translated “eternal/everlasting” 20 times and world 3 times. In the following 12 verses Paul defines “aionios” as eternal.

[11]Romans 5:21
(21) That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal [aionios] life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

In this verse Paul juxtaposes “aionios life” with death. “A finite period life” is not opposite death. “Aionios life” by definition here means ‘eternal life.”

[12]Ephesians 3:21
(21) to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever [tou aionios] and ever! [ton aionion] Amen.

In this verse Paul parallels “tou aionios ton aionion” with “throughout all generations.” "Age(s)" a finite period cannot refer to "all generations." By definition “tou aionios ton aionion” means forever and ever.

[13]Romans 1:20
(20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal [aidios] power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
[14]Romans 16:26
(26) But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting [aionios] God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

In Rom 1:20 Paul refers to God’s power and Godhead as “aidios.” Scholars agree “aidios” unquestionably means eternal, everlasting, unending etc. In Rom 16:26, Paul, the same writer, in the same writing, refers to God as “aionios.” Paul has used “aidios” synonymous with “aionios.” In this verse by definition “aionios” means eternal, everlasting.

[15]2 Corinthians 4:17-18
(17) For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal [aionios] weight of glory;
(18) While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal;[proskairos] but the things which are not seen are eternal [aionios]

In this passage Paul juxtaposes “aionios” with “for a moment,” vs. 4, and “temporal,” vs. 5. “Age(s)” an indeterminate finite period, it is not the opposite of “for a moment”/”temporal/temporary” “eternal” is. “Aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”

[16]2 Corinthians 5:1
(1) For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal [aionios] in the heavens.

In this verse Paul juxtaposes “aionios house” with “earthly house which is destroyed.” Is God going to replace our destroyed earthly house with a house which only lasts a little longer and will be destroyed at the end of an age? The aionios house is not destroyed, the opposite of “is destroyed.” Thus, “aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”

[17]1 Timothy 6:16
(16) Who only hath immortality, [aphthartos] dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting [aionios]

In this verse Paul paralleled “aionios” with “immortality.” If “aionios” is only a finite period, God cannot be “immortal” and only exist for a finite period at the same time. Thus “aionios” by definition means “eternal.”

[18]Galatians 6:8
(8) For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; [fthora] but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. [aionios]

In this verse Paul juxtaposes “aionios” with “corruption.” “Fleshly” people reap “corruption” but spiritual people reap “life aionios,” i.e. “not corruption.” “Age(s), a finite period, is not opposite of “corruption.” Thus “aionios life” by definition here means “eternal/everlasting life.”

[19]Romans 2:7
(7) To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, [apftharsia] he will give eternal [aionios] life.

In this verse Paul parallels “aionios” with “immortality.” If “aionios” is only a finite period, believers do not seek for “a finite period,” and “immortality” at the same time. But they can seek for “eternal life” and “immortality” at the same time. Thus by definition “aionios life” here means “eternal life.”

[20]1 Timothy 1:17.
(17) Now unto the King eternal, [aion] immortal, [aphthartos] invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever [aion] and ever [aionios]. Amen.

In this verse Paul parallels “aion” with “immortal.” “Aion” cannot mean “age(s),” a finite period and immortal at the same time. Thus “aion” by definition here means “eternal.”

[21]Romans 5:21
(21) That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal [aionios] life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

In this verse Paul juxtaposes “aionios life” with death. “A finite period life” is not opposite death. “Aionios life” by definition here means ‘eternal life.”

[22]Ephesians 3:21
(21) to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever [tou aionios] and ever! [ton aionion] Amen.

In this verse Paul parallels “tou aionios ton aionion” with “throughout all generations.” "Age(s)" a finite period cannot refer to "all generations." By definition “tou aionios ton aionion” means forever and ever.

[23]Hebrews 7:24 but because Jesus lives forever [aion] he has an unchangeable [aparabatos] priesthood.

In this verse “aion” is parallel with “unchangeable.” If “aion” means “age(s),” Jesus cannot continue for only a “finite period” and simultaneously be “unchangeable.” Thus “aion” by definition here means “eternal.”

[24]1 Peter 1:23
(23) For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, [aphthartos] through the living and enduring word of God. …
1 Peter 1:25
(25) but the word of the Lord endures forever.[aion] " And this is the word that was preached to you.

In verse 23 Peter parallels “word of God” with “imperishable.” The same writer, Peter, in the same writing 1 Peter, in verse 25 writes the word of God “endures eis ton aiona/unto eternity. ” The word of God is not a finite age long but imperishable. Thus by definition “aion” here means “eternity”

[25]1 Peter 5:10
(10) And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal [aionion] glory in Christ, after you have suffered a little while, [oligon] will himself restore you and make you strong, firm and steadfast.

In this verse Peter contrasted “aionios” with “little while” Jesus does not give His followers a finite period of glory then they eventually die. Thus “aionios” here, by definition, means “eternal.”

[26]Revelation 14:11
(11) And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever:[eis aionas aionon] and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

In this verse “aionas aionon torment” is paralleled with “no rest day or night.” If “aionas, aionon” means “a finite period” at some time they would rest, “Aionas, aionon” by definition here means “forever and forever.”
Footnotes.

[fn]●The double negative [ου μη] signifies in nowise, by no means. Θεωρήσῃ[theōrésé], denoting steady, protracted vision, is purposely used, because the promise contemplates the entire course of the believer's life in Christ. It is not, shall not die forever, but shall live eternally.[Vincent word studies]
● ④οὐ marker of reinforced negation, in combination w. μή, οὐ μή has the effect of strengthening the negation (Kühner-G. II 221–23; Schwyzer II 317; Mlt. 187–92 [a thorough treatment of NT usage]; B-D-F §365; RLudwig: D. prophet. Wort 31 ’37, 272–79; JLee, NovT 27, ’85, 18–23; B-D-F §365.—Pla., Hdt. et al. [Kühner-G. loc. cit.]; SIG 1042, 16; POxy 119, 5, 14f; 903, 16; PGM 5, 279; 13, 321; LXX; TestAbr A 8 p. 85, 11 [Stone p. 46]; JosAs 20:3; GrBar 1:7; ApcEsdr 2:7; Just., D. 141, 2). οὐ μή is the most decisive way of negativing something in the future.
Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000)A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian Literature.(3rd Ed). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
● The combinations with οὐ μή also be noticed as, ουδεν οὐ μή (Lu. 10:19); οὐ μή se σε άνο ουδ ου σε εγκαταιπο (Heb. 13:5); ουκετι οὐ μή (Rev. 18:14). There is no denying the power of this accumulation of negatives. Cf. the English hymn "I'll never, no never, no never forsake."
Grammar Of The Greek New Testament In The Light Of Historical Research
By A. T. Robertson, M.A., D.D., Ll.D., Litt.D. p.1165.

Albion · Apr 3, 2021

Saint Steven said:
Yes, that is interesting. That would limit the number that "were made sinners" to less than all, and increase the number that will be made righteous to "all". Very interesting indeed. Not sure that helps your argument. - lol

Well, it was verse 19 that you presented as your proof. You made "the many" your point of emphasis, not me. And then I replied to that.

Albion · Apr 3, 2021

Saint Steven said:
Yes, that is interesting. That would limit the number that "were made sinners" to less than all, and increase the number that will be made righteous to "all".

I can't even guess at how you would arrive at that upside-down conclusion.

Saint Steven · Apr 3, 2021

Albion said:
Well, it was verse 19 that you presented as your proof. You made "the many" your point of emphasis, not me. And then I replied to that.

Nope. See post #117. Verse 18 was included.

Saint Steven · Apr 3, 2021

Albion said:
I can't even guess at how you would arrive at that upside-down conclusion.

That's the point. Weren't you claiming that "many" was not all? If so...

Saint Steven said: ↑
Yes, that is interesting. That would limit the number that "were made sinners" to less than all, and increase the number that will be made righteous to "all".

Der Alte · Apr 3, 2021

MMXX said:
This isn't a classroom. Or a textbook. It's a flow of multiple conversations via text. I'm sure I'm not the only person who's told you tl;dr/tmi. I'm sure due to your familiarity
"(Kühner-G. II 221–23; Schwyzer II 317; Mlt. 187–92 [a thorough treatment of NT usage]; B-D-F §365; RLudwig: D. prophet. Wort 31 ’37, 272–79; JLee, NovT 27, ’85, 18–23; B-D-F §365.—Pla., Hdt. et al. [Kühner-G. loc. cit.]; SIG 1042, 16; POxy 119, 5, 14f; 903, 16; PGM 5, 279; 13, 321; LXX; TestAbr A 8 p. 85, 11 [Stone p. 46]; JosAs 20:3; GrBar 1:7; ApcEsdr 2:7; Just., D. 141, 2). οὐ μή is the most decisive way of negativing something in the future. Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000)A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian Literature.(3rd Ed). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
● The combinations with οὐ μή also be noticed as, ουδεν οὐ μή (Lu. 10:19); οὐ μή se σε άνο ουδ ου σε εγκαταιπο (Heb. 13:5); ουκετι οὐ μή (Rev. 18:14)" doesn't look like a hodgepodge to you, but I'm sure it does to most others. My brother used to crank out scientific material about aeronautics and astrophysics to the general public, and he said the key to making it reader friendly, was to write it for "soccer moms". My guess is most people skip over your posts and thus you're writing them in vain.

What you quoted are standard footnotes from three Greek grammars which define the word ou me which as one states "ou me [in Greek] is the most decisive way of negativing something in the future."
I'm sorry that a standard text book footnote is too complicated for you to read.

Do you believe this?

You can call me Steve

This is me about 1 yr. old.

You can call me Steve

This is me about 1 yr. old.

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You can call me Steve

You can call me Steve

You can call me Steve

May God be with you and bless you.

Well-Known Member

You can call me Steve

This is me about 1 yr. old.

Facilitator

Facilitator

You can call me Steve

You can call me Steve

This is me about 1 yr. old.

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