UMC Split - the Traditional Denomination and the rest

tampasteve · Mar 8, 2021

Anyone that is familiar with what is happening with the UMC will know that the denomination will be split into three denominations.

Traditional
Progressive
Liberal/Radical

The "Progressive" denomination will be the remaining United Methodist Church, it will be mainline, and likely similar to what they believe and how they operate now, just smaller. You will see both conservative and more liberal churches still, similar to the Episcopal Church and ELCA, but likely most very conservative and very liberal churches will leave for their respective camps - leaving an overall moderate denomination with a smattering of the more extreme of each side as well for a number of reasons.

The "Traditional" denomination has taken the name "Global Methodist Church" . Using the TEC split up as a guide, the GMC will be the ACNA of the Methodist denominations - conservative, "side B or X/Y" on same sex issues, and have a large backing from African and Asian contingents of the church.

The "Liberal" denomination has yet to coalesce behind one group, but it looks likely to be the Liberation Methodist Connexion (or at least they are the most vocal).

This should all hopefully shake out at the next conference, but that will not be until 2022 now that it has been delayed several times.

CMDRExorcist · Mar 8, 2021

I was raised for a portion of my childhood in the UMC. Although I haven’t belonged to it for years, some of my basic understandings of theology came from them. It’s always sad when a schism occurs. I hope and pray that each branch can continue to help others and that Jesus will guide them.

Leaf473 · Mar 8, 2021

tampasteve said:
Anyone that is familiar with what is happening with the UMC will know that the denomination will be split into three denominations.

Traditional
Progressive
Liberal/Radical

The "Progressive" denomination will be the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] United Methodist Church, it will be mainline, and likely similar to what they believe and how they operate now, just smaller. You will see both conservative and more liberal churches still, similar to the Episcopal Church and ELCA, but likely most very conservative and very liberal churches will leave for their respective camps - leaving an overall moderate denomination with a smattering of the more extreme of each side as well for a number of reasons.

The "Traditional" denomination has taken the name "Global Methodist Church" . Using the TEC split up as a guide, the GMC will be the ACNA of the Methodist denominations - conservative, "side B or X/Y" on same sex issues, and have a large backing from African and Asian contingents of the church.

The "Liberal" denomination has yet to coalesce behind one group, but it looks likely to be the Liberation Methodist Connexion (or at least they are the most vocal).

This should all hopefully shake out at the next conference, but that will not be until 2022 now that it has been delayed several times.

My wife and I currently go to a Methodist church, though aren't members.

Regarding the progressive branch, what do you expect it's position will be on homosexuals being ordained or married in the church?

Pioneer3mm · Mar 8, 2021

It is inevitable..
I was involved in UMC.
- 1970's
---
I like the stories..
- during the early days of Methodist Movement
& Circuit Riders.

seeking.IAM · Mar 8, 2021

I hope the UMC has the courage to finally decide this in 2022 if not earlier. I think it has kicked this can down the road from one conference to the next for too many years while prolonging its own pain and attrition as it continues to slug it out. As a former 5-decade Methodist, I hope for the best for them, whatever that may be.

rockytopva · Mar 8, 2021

My denomination is Pentecostal Holiness, and we emphasized three experiences....

1. Salvation
2. Sanctification
3. Witness of the Spirit

The old Methodist would simply call this, “getting religion” and if they could not discern the Spirit of Christ they would tell you to, “come back tomorrow night” (as they were frequently in revival) and smile a little as they said it. Once you came through they would in the words of the Apostle Paul, “glorified God in me” (Galatians 1:24). George Clark Rankin picked up “religion” in these Methods 100 years before me and talks these Methods here The Life of George Clark Rankin.

I picked up “religion” in like methods and miss these teachings. I don’t know if these methods are taught in this manner anymore. Sanctification is what I would call a dangerous doctrine as you can learn it without any affect on the heart, or become negative and legalistic.

I have learned that, “Anyone that is familiar with what is happening with the UMC will know that the denomination will be split into three denominations...”

Traditional
Progressive
Liberal/Radical

I wonder if teachings on sanctification will follow any of the three? Pentecostal teachings on “Witness of the Spirit” can also be dangerous as they can try to teach people to talk in tongues without any real effect on the heart.

My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you... - Galatians 4:19

Once the Christ is formed on the inside I believe the religion is picked up correctly, or the soul sanctified. It is nice to attend church services in which one is aware of these methods being experienced correctly.

tampasteve · Mar 8, 2021

Leaf473 said:
My wife and I currently go to a Methodist church, though aren't members.

Regarding the progressive branch, what do you expect it's position will be on homosexuals being ordained or married in the church?

My opinion, though this is just mine, is that the left over UMC will return to the pre-1972 Book of Discipline that added language about homosexual persons. So, not explicitly encouraging or discouraging it.

Halbhh · Mar 8, 2021

tampasteve said:
Anyone that is familiar with what is happening with the UMC will know that the denomination will be split into three denominations.

Traditional
Progressive
Liberal/Radical

The "Progressive" denomination will be the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] United Methodist Church, it will be mainline, and likely similar to what they believe and how they operate now, just smaller. You will see both conservative and more liberal churches still, similar to the Episcopal Church and ELCA, but likely most very conservative and very liberal churches will leave for their respective camps - leaving an overall moderate denomination with a smattering of the more extreme of each side as well for a number of reasons.

The "Traditional" denomination has taken the name "Global Methodist Church" . Using the TEC split up as a guide, the GMC will be the ACNA of the Methodist denominations - conservative, "side B or X/Y" on same sex issues, and have a large backing from African and Asian contingents of the church.

The "Liberal" denomination has yet to coalesce behind one group, but it looks likely to be the Liberation Methodist Connexion (or at least they are the most vocal).

This should all hopefully shake out at the next conference, but that will not be until 2022 now that it has been delayed several times.

In our own individual congregation (nominally "ELCA") we definitely have plenty of clearly and strongly conservative members and plenty of clearly and strongly liberal members at least in terms of political/social leanings, and all of them believers in God and in Christ.

And in our congregation, so mixed, I happen to know very well (having had both over more than once to our back porch for hours at time) that one of the most outspoken conservatives is a very close friend to one of the most clearly liberal.

Why? Because they believe.

I have confidence that even though at first it will not seem this way after such a split....that soon enough, with faith, it will be this same way, for any church.

tampasteve · Mar 9, 2021

Halbhh said:
In our own individual congregation (nominally "ELCA") we definitely have plenty of clearly and strongly conservative members and plenty of clearly and strongly liberal members at least in terms of political/social leanings, and all of them believers in God and in Christ.

And in our congregation, so mixed, I happen to know very well (having had both over more than once to our back porch for hours at time) that one of the most outspoken conservatives is a very close friend to one of the most clearly liberal.

Why? Because they believe.

I have confidence that even though at first it will not seem this way after such a split....that soon enough, with faith, it will be this same way, for any church.

At both my current UMC and my former ELCA church the same sentiment would be true. I think that often the churches that are solidly on one end or the other end up being the ones driving the conversation, to the detriment of the overall denominations.

hedrick · Mar 15, 2021

Leaf473 said:
My wife and I currently go to a Methodist church, though aren't members.

Regarding the progressive branch, what do you expect it's position will be on homosexuals being ordained or married in the church?

The middle and left will allow ordination of gays and gay marriage. That’s the whole reason for the split. If it’s like other mainline denominations, churches and pastors will be able to decide whether to do gay marriages, at least in the middle branch. I’d expect they could also refuse a gay pastor, at least informally.

hedrick · Mar 15, 2021

tampasteve said:
At both my current UMC and my former ELCA church the same sentiment would be true. I think that often the churches that are solidly on one end or the other end up being the ones driving the conversation, to the detriment of the overall denominations.

Right. My PCUSA congregation is also mixed, and people are put on governing boards without regard to that difference. That’s why most churches are likely to pick the middle branch. For most congregations I’d bet that there won’t be much visible change, except if they have a gay couple that want to get married. I’m a pretty extreme liberal, but I have no desire to break with more conservative fellow members.

Matty91 · Apr 3, 2021

A very similar split happened in Australia in 1977 in what is now the Uniting Church of Australia.
They formed as a collection of a majority of Methodist, Presbyterian and Congregational Churches.
They now basically run "factions" where conservative/traditional groups have their Churches and the more mainline (liberal) Churches have theirs.
They still call themselves the Uniting Church though but most seem to spend more time talking about climate change, black lives matter and refugees more than anything else (it's more about modern politics than the Bible).

However depending on which Church you go to you can run into conservative Calvinists or liberal Methodists, right through to ultra liberal, basically left wing activist, groups.
I do believe they're still having issues and it may split further.

hedrick · Apr 3, 2021

Matty91 said:
They still call themselves the Uniting Church though but most seem to spend more time talking about climate change, black lives matter and refugees more than anything else (it's more about modern politics than the Bible).

Maybe it's different than in the US, but here the mainline churches don't spend all their time talking about this, anymore than conservative churches spend all their times talking about homosexuality. Mostly we talk about Christian life.

Baby Cottontail · May 6, 2021

I have been interested in this topic, and every once in awhile, I will search on google for any updates. My own UMC lives in pretty much ignorance over this whole topic. We did have a meeting that our district led about possible plans, but that was right before the COVID lockdown, and we never discussed the meeting as a church, like we were going to.

I really have no idea what direction my congregation would even go, as we have a mix of people who attend and are members. I live in an area where many people are politically conservative, but I don’t know about how theologically conservative/traditional they are.

I guess we are taking a wait and see what happens at general conference approach.

In looking at the websites of the Global Methodists, as well as the LMX, I definitely would not fit in with LMX. The Global Methodists sounds like a good fit for me personally, but I would have to know more about them before choosing them (if there would even be one in my community). I also would like to know what the moderate church would be like before making any personal decision for myself.

If the direction of the congregation I am a part of continues in the current direction, I would likely be looking for a new church anyway.

Basil the Great · May 10, 2021

Just guessing, it seems to me that much of the South might go with the more conservative group, with the large city and suburban churches on the West coast and perhaps the same in the NorthEast going with the liberal group. Most of the MidWest will probably be in the middle, along with smaller town churches on the West coast and the NorthEast.

MarkRohfrietsch · May 14, 2022

Matty91 said:
A very similar split happened in Australia in 1977 in what is now the Uniting Church of Australia.
They formed as a collection of a majority of Methodist, Presbyterian and Congregational Churches.
They now basically run "factions" where conservative/traditional groups have their Churches and the more mainline (liberal) Churches have theirs.
They still call themselves the Uniting Church though but most seem to spend more time talking about climate change, black lives matter and refugees more than anything else (it's more about modern politics than the Bible).
However depending on which Church you go to you can run into conservative Calvinists or liberal Methodists, right through to ultra liberal, basically left wing activist, groups.
I do believe they're still having issues and it may split further.

Same here in Canada, the United Church of Canada; in my area where there was about 40 separate congregations, it is now down to three I believe. Most of which have closed in the last 10 years. No split, just disintegration.

Leaf473 · May 14, 2022

Is there any news about whether the congregations that joined the Global Methodist Church will keep their buildings?

Methodized · May 16, 2022

Leaf473 said:
Is there any news about whether the congregations that joined the Global Methodist Church will keep their buildings?

They can if they pay their full apportionments and pay the contribution to the pension system. Each conference has a formula for how to do that. But none of that will be cheap, particularly for churches that have been withholding apportionments and now have to catch up.

The Liturgist · May 19, 2022

Leaf473 said:
My wife and I currently go to a Methodist church, though aren't members.

Regarding the progressive branch, what do you expect it's position will be on homosexuals being ordained or married in the church?

I expect that depends on whether the African bishops still have a vote, since they are the ones who have preserved the status quo ante.

The Liturgist · May 19, 2022

Baby Cottontail said:
I have been interested in this topic, and every once in awhile, I will search on google for any updates. My own UMC lives in pretty much ignorance over this whole topic. We did have a meeting that our district led about possible plans, but that was right before the COVID lockdown, and we never discussed the meeting as a church, like we were going to.

I really have no idea what direction my congregation would even go, as we have a mix of people who attend and are members. I live in an area where many people are politically conservative, but I don’t know about how theologically conservative/traditional they are.

I guess we are taking a wait and see what happens at general conference approach.

In looking at the websites of the Global Methodists, as well as the LMX, I definitely would not fit in with LMX. The Global Methodists sounds like a good fit for me personally, but I would have to know more about them before choosing them (if there would even be one in my community). I also would like to know what the moderate church would be like before making any personal decision for myself.

If the direction of the congregation I am a part of continues in the current direction, I would likely be looking for a new church anyway.

What aspects of the trajectory of your church do you find alienating? Also, what is the worship like at your church?

UMC Split - the Traditional Denomination and the rest

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