4 dead (including a child) 1 critically injured in office complex shooting in Orange, California

disciple Clint · Apr 3, 2021

Pommer said:
We used to make ‘firecrackers’ out of those red rolls of caps.
One would pierce each cap with a needle, SLOWLY, otherwise you’d ignite the powder and then fold it, accordion-style back onto the needle, keep it compressed while taping it and insert a match as a “fuse”.
The green sticky one on sheets would’ve probably worked better since they had a third more powder, but those were like 50¢* a sheet!

*$26.67 in 2021 dollars

Gun powder is available in many sporting good stores, no questions asked.

disciple Clint · Apr 3, 2021

Tom 1 said:
The two sides over there seem to have a lot in common, they just insist that there way of interpreting a particular value is better. A bit of humility would go a long way.

Well you have one party who has openly boasted that they intend to fundamentally change this nation and they are making a very serious effort to do just that.

disciple Clint · Apr 3, 2021

Tom 1 said:
There's something of a scale between a pipe bomb and the kind of explosion that can take down a building, or even a suicide vest that works as intended. Whether kids can master it or not, it's a bit of a tenuous argument that no guns would mean more bombs.

I have not seen small arms that can take down a building, have you? there is not doubt that a small explosive can kill just as many people as a gun and likely even more. But a person can simply use their car to mow people down as well. So the real solution is getting people who have mental health issues the help they need before they go critical and start killing people. I can tell you that in this nation getting that kind of help is very difficult for people, so they end up in jail which does nothing to help them, they get released from jail, arrested again and this goes on time after time until they kill themselves or someone else.

Pommer · Apr 3, 2021

Tom 1 said:
Whether kids can master it or not,

Those that don’t DON’T.

Tom 1 · Apr 3, 2021

disciple Clint said:
I have not seen small arms that can take down a building, have you? there is not doubt that a small explosive can kill just as many people as a gun and likely even more. But a person can simply use their car to mow people down as well. So the real solution is getting people who have mental health issues the help they need before they go critical and start killing people. I can tell you that in this nation getting that kind of help is very difficult for people, so they end up in jail which does nothing to help them, they get released from jail, arrested again and this goes on time after time until they kill themselves or someone else.

On the whole people with a diagnosed mental illness are less violent than the rest of the population. Only some diagnoses correlate with a higher tendency towards aggressive behaviour, and those are very small numbers. The mental health aspect of reporting on most of these mass killings is generally vague and overblown, any real socio or psychopaths in the mix would in any case be unlikely to seek help and would sail through any basic psychological fitness test.

People who want to kill other people do it regularly in the US, and more often than not a firearm is used. Whatever other means there might be, people use guns. In countries that don't have as many guns, but have the same access to bomb-making materials, there are far fewer violent deaths. That's just how it is, however you try to get around it.

Tom 1 · Apr 3, 2021

disciple Clint said:
Well you have one party who has openly boasted that they intend to fundamentally change this nation and they are making a very serious effort to do just that.

'Boasting' is a pretty odd word choice. People who are trying to enact change are doing it because they think that is a good thing to do. Perhaps if you actually tried to understand why, rather than simply refusing to read the 'fake' news and buying into the childish demonisation of the political party you don't like, that would be one step forward. There are plenty of areas where common ground can be found, the reality is that most people simply refuse to even think about beginning to look for it. The Democrats for example have shown themselves to be way, way more effective at reducing the numbers of abortions. While Republicans like to blab about how awful it is, under Obama numbers of abortions dropped far more than under any GOP govt by a very wide margin. There are 10s of millions of Americans who would rather put a character like Trump in the oval office than actually try and tackle any real life issues - that tells you where the real problem is. Denial always leads to ugly outcomes.

disciple Clint · Apr 3, 2021

Tom 1 said:
On the whole people with a diagnosed mental illness are less violent than the rest of the population. Only some diagnoses correlate with a higher tendency towards aggressive behaviour, and those are very small numbers. The mental health aspect of reporting on most of these mass killings is generally vague and overblown, any real socio or psychopaths in the mix would in any case be unlikely to seek help and would sail through any basic psychological fitness test.

People who want to kill other people do it regularly in the US, and more often than not a firearm is used. Whatever other means there might be, people use guns. In countries that don't have as many guns, but have the same access to bomb-making materials, there are far fewer violent deaths. That's just how it is, however you try to get around it.

let me just simply say that has not been my experience, go out and talk to some street cops, reading it in a book and dealing with it every day are two very different things.

disciple Clint · Apr 3, 2021

Tom 1 said:
'Boasting' is a pretty odd word choice. People who are trying to enact change are doing it because they think that is a good thing to do. Perhaps if you actually tried to understand why, rather than simply refusing to read the 'fake' news and buying into the childish demonising of the political party you don't like, that would be one step forward. There are plenty of areas where common ground can be found, the reality is that most people simply refuse to even think about beginning to look for it. The Democrats for example have shown themselves to be way, way more effective at reducing the numbers of abortions. While Republicans like to blab about how awful it is, under Obama numbers of abortions dropped far more than under any GOP govt by a very wide margin. There are 10s of millions of Americans who would rather put a character like Trump in the oval office than actually try and tackle any real life issues - that tells you where the real problem is. Denial always leads to ugly outcomes.

People are entitled to think what they wish, I live in this country and I am very much aware of what is going on. The kind of change the global elitists and Marxists want to make is not what the people of this nation want.

Tom 1 · Apr 3, 2021

disciple Clint said:
People are entitled to think what they wish, I live in this country and I am very much aware of what is going on. The kind of change the global elitists and Marxists want to make is not what the people of this nation want.

The world does change, regularly, and there are always people who don't like it , but change is necessary. Only in a perfect world would there be no need for change. Dumbing it down to a few buzzwords like fox and the like do adds absolutely nothing of any use and only promotes conflict.

Right wing elites are as elite as left wing elites. The whole concept is a red herring. There are few places in the world where those in power might not be thought of as elite in terms of education, wealth, influence etc. Globalisation has had remarkably positive effects in the world, lifting millions of people out of poverty. It is also one reason - not the only reason - why some people in manufacturing jobs have lost work. But manufacturing jobs are not fixed features of the universe, tbh it is a little bit hard to understand how people who believe in 'rugged individualism' are so dependent on someone providing them with work regardless of any other factor. When it comes down to it, everyone wants the govt to help, and government support for obsolete industrial practices is just another form of welfare.

Good news maybe for people who see global cooperation as somehow inherently evil is that we seem to be moving past it, countries appear to be coalescing into groups based on shared values, the well-being economy type ideas that has led to a pact of sorts and a commitment to future cooperation between Iceland, Scotland and NZ may represent a model for how the world will look in a few decades, with countries sharing certain outlooks and priorities building closer ties. Geographical proximity ain't what it used to be.

disciple Clint · Apr 3, 2021

Tom 1 said:
The world does change, regularly, and there are always people who don't like it , but change is necessary. Only in a perfect world would there be no need for change. Dumbing it down to a few buzzwords like fox and the like do adds absolutely nothing of any use and only promotes conflict.

Right wing elites are as elite as left wing elites. The whole concept is a red herring. There are few places in the world where those in power might not be thought of as elite in terms of education, wealth, influence etc. Globalisation has had remarkably positive effects in the world, lifting millions of people out of poverty. It is also one reason - not the only reason - why some people in manufacturing jobs have lost work. But manufacturing jobs are not fixed features of the universe, tbh it is a little bit hard to understand how people who believe in 'rugged individualism' are so dependent on someone providing them with work regardless of any other factor. When it comes down to it, everyone wants the govt to help, and government support for obsolete industrial practices is just another form of welfare.

Good news maybe for people who see global cooperation as somehow inherently evil is that we seem to be moving past it, countries appear to be coalescing into groups based on shared values, the well-being economy type ideas that has led to a pact of sorts and a commitment to future cooperation between Iceland, Scotland and NZ may represent a model for how the world will look in a few decades, with countries sharing certain outlooks and priorities building closer ties. Geographical proximity ain't what it used to be.

That works for Europe, the USA is quite different.

Par5 · Apr 3, 2021

Erik Nelson said:
And everyone else is just like you?

If everyone else acted just like you do, where you are; except where they are; your actions in their shoes on their streets would keep them safe?

No matter who they are or where they live, if they just acted like you, they'd be better off?

Why didn't they think of that already?

Where I live, that is exactly how everyone acts. When I leave the house I check I have my house keys, my wallet, and my car keys. I don't check to see if I have my gun.
In all my 75 years I have never felt the need to carry a gun because there never has been a need. The thought has never entered my head.
Consider also the fact that I live in Northern Ireland and have lived through several decades of violence perpetrated by Irish republican and loyalist terror groups. Throughout those decades of violence, the only people who were armed were the police and the security forces, the rest of the civilian population went about their everyday life unarmed and with no desire to be armed.
Now in more peaceful times, the attitude concerning guns hasn't changed, and we don't have children shot dead in our schools and shoppers shot dead in the mall.

Tom 1 · Apr 3, 2021

disciple Clint said:
That works for Europe, the USA is quite different.

The US is not separate from the rest of the world any more than any other country is. The idea of the US may be different in some people's minds, but that is more an abstract concept than a definite thing. As the rest of the world changes, so does the US.

People have had that idea in every civilisation, each one creates it's own version of 'this is the way things are' and tries to nail reality down to some set of cultural norms. But reality has no interest in our cultural norms.

Pommer · Apr 3, 2021

disciple Clint said:
Gun powder is available in many sporting good stores, no questions asked.

Well, we was eight years old at the time.
ETA: I could but a pack of Pall Malls (cigarettes) “for my dad”, but loose gunpowder would’ve definitely needed at least a note.

Trogdor the Burninator · Apr 3, 2021

Erik Nelson said:
Drunk drivers are bad, not cars, nor good drivers. And more drunk drivers kill more Americans each year than "mass shooters".

Meanwhile, what about gang-related violence, in "Blue" cities, like Chicago? Anyone care??

4 People, Including 2 Children, Hit By Gunfire In Two Chicago Shootings – CBS 2: News, Weather, Sports On All Platforms (cbslocal.com)

Man, 32, Killed In Sunday Logan Square Shooting (blockclubchicago.org)

6 hurt Monday in citywide shootings (fox32chicago.com)

Chicago mass shooting: Video captures moment gunman opened fire inside Park Manor warehouse party - ABC7 Chicago

Chicago shootings: 6 shot Monday - Chicago Sun-Times

Chicago violence: 1 dead, at least 7 wounded in Southwest Side shooting - Chicago Tribune

I'm glad you agree that guns are a huge problem all over the US

Trogdor the Burninator · Apr 3, 2021

disciple Clint said:
I have yet to see a gun kill anyone, it is the person behind the gun that does the killing, the gun is simply a tool, if that tool was not available another tool would be used.

I have yet to see a ICBM kill anyone, it is the person behind the ICBM that does the killing, the missile is simply a tool, if that tool was not available another tool would be used.

ICBMs for everyone!

The next punk that tries to steal my Amazon delivery is sure in for a surprise!

Trogdor the Burninator · Apr 3, 2021

Nithavela said:
It's nice to see that the knee-jerk reactions to mass shootings are still well-trained. People don't even need to engage with the shooting at hand and go right to defending their guns.

...and a "Whatabout Chicago" just 6 posts in. It's got to be a VB script, surely.

Trogdor the Burninator · Apr 3, 2021

Pommer said:
We used to make ‘firecrackers’ out of those red rolls of caps.
One would pierce each cap with a needle, SLOWLY, otherwise you’d ignite the powder and then fold it, accordion-style back onto the needle, keep it compressed while taping it and insert a match as a “fuse”.
The green sticky one on sheets would’ve probably worked better since they had a third more powder, but those were like 50¢* a sheet!

*$26.67 in 2021 dollars

Bolt bombs.

Get two bolts and a nut, screw the nut halfway onto one bolt end. Shave the phosphorous heads of some matches into the little "cup" where the nut is, then slowly screw the second bolt in the other side until it starts to press down on the phosphorous.

Throw into the air, then run!

Pommer · Apr 3, 2021

Trogdor the Burninator said:
Bolt bombs.

Get two bolts and a nut, screw the nut halfway onto one bolt end. Shave the phosphorous heads of some matches into the little "cup" where the nut is, then slowly screw the second bolt in the other side until it starts to press down on the phosphorous.

Throw into the air, then run!

We just wanted noise not mayhem.

4 dead (including a child) 1 critically injured in office complex shooting in Orange, California

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