When does Ezekiel 38 occur?

rockytopva · Apr 2, 2021

And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. - Luke 21:24

After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them. - Ezekiel 38:

Has the times of the Gentiles been fulfilled?

The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; - Revelation 1:20 - Revelation 2:1

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first to make money off of ministry

Candlesticks - Seven church congregations
Stars - Individuals within the congregations, all held in the right hand of Christ
Seals - The seven seals sealed each congregation within the lambs book of life

And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. - Revelation 5:4

It is hard to find anyone in the everyday public that has a passion for their church these days!

TribulationSigns · Apr 2, 2021

Douggg said:
The rapture takes place years before the Second Coming.

False. The Rapture will occur at the Second Coming at the Last Trump which is obviously the seventh and last Trumpet of Revelation. Not 7 years earlier, else it is not the last trump.

The Second Coming, the return of Jesus to the earth - is at the close of the great tribulation.

Not true. The great tribulation FOR the Elect will end when they come out of unfaithful congregation, Babylon the Great, as God judges her. The Second Coming will occur after the hour of the judgment of harlot is finished.

Mat 24:29-31
(29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
(30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
(31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Rev 18:8-10
(8) Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
(9) And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
(10) Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

The judgment of the harlot which the sun, moon and stars refer to will take place AFTER the great tribulation FOR the end ends. The judgment of an unfaithful congregation must take place before Christ returns and gather his Elect at the great sound of a trumpet, which is obviously the last trump. Not "seven years earlier" Trumpet.

The rapture/resurrection takes place before the great tribulation begins.

Nope!

the gathering of the Jews, the house of Israel, with not a single one left in the nations is after Jesus has returned.

False. Christ gather his Elect (spiritual Jews) into the spiritual house of Israel, the church. You are blind to the physical Israel doctrine.

Jesus Himself is speaking in Ezekiel 39:21-29, in the future, after Armageddon, having returned to this earth. The gathering in Matthew 24:31 corresponds to Ezekiel 39:28 - it applies to the Jews, the house of Israel.

Nope, nope, nope.

You got Israel all wrong. Ezekiel 38-39 is speaking about His congregation Israel, the church, all over the Earth. The Elect's enemies are the professed Christians who came into church and make her desolate. This is a spiritual battle of Armageddon. Not fighting with guns and missiles over a piece of land. The gathering refers to ALL ELECT, the spiritual House of Israel. Selah!

TribulationSigns · Apr 2, 2021

Douggg said:
Gog and Magog in Revelation 20, is a way of referring to the same nations who will be involved in the Ezekiel 38-39 event a thousand years earlier.

This has nothing to do with physical nations. God did not talk about a physical invade of national Israel here. Those "nations" found in Old Testament that you need to research in the Old Testament and find their merchandises that match with Revelation 18's merchandise! These nations spiritually represent the unsaved people of God's congregation who will attack the testimony of His faithful Elect.

My goodness. Look at Ephesians 6 and see how God's Faithful Elect WEAR. The armor, the sword, shield, helmets, etc. And look at what our enemies wear in Ezekiel 38! They are very similar! God is talking about the army of PROFESSED CHRISTIANS. They claimed to be Christians, but do not have the Truth! Gog and Magog is a SPIRITUAL war as described in Revelation within God's New Testament congregation (Israel). God is NOT talking about some nations like Iran, Syria, Russia or China planning a massive war against national Israel like you dream of. Wake up!

Like I said much time, you are building a doctrine with wrong Israel and wrong place, Dougg.

Douggg · Apr 2, 2021

TribulationSigns said:
False. The Rapture will occur at the Second Coming at the Last Trump which is obviously the seventh and last Trumpet of Revelation. Not 7 years earlier, else it is not the last trump.

In 1Thessalonians5, v9-11 the rapture/resurrection takes place before the beginning of the Day of the Lord.

The world will be saying peace and safety right before the Day of the Lord begins.

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

chad kincham · Apr 2, 2021

rockytopva said:
When does Ezekiel 38 occur where a large Gentile force attempts to eliminate Israel? Since I cannot use timelines I will use the Trib options. Noting this is a tough thread without the use of date estimations.

Timing - After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them. - Ezekiel 38:

Please note the wording, "in the latter years (not the last years) thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword. (post 1945?)" Indicating that this could happen any day. When this event happens God the Father will look down from heaven...

And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord God, that my fury shall come up in my face. - Ezekiel 38:18

In which... I would think those armies in boss trouble! And on to Ezekiel 39...

And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land. - Ezekiel 39

It looks like in the aftermath of all of that Israel will build a very large temple as described in Ezekiel 40 on.

Solomon's Temple - Measured 60 cubits in length, 20 cubits in width, and 30 cubits in height (1 Kings 6:2).

Ezekiel's Temple - Will Measure 500 cubits in length, 500 cubits in width (Ezekiel 45:2), and 77 cubits in height (estimated galgal | The height of Ezekiel's Temple).

The prophet Ezekiel’s vision of the restored Temple precinct will be huge (in which where I believe the temple will be built): “Set apart for the Lord a portion of the land as a holy district, 25,000 cubits in length and 20,000 in width” (Ezekiel 45:1).

And some online perspectives... "Lambert Dolphin in his article The Temple of Ezekiel writes, “The prophet Ezekiel (Ezekiel 40-48) describes in great detail a temple in Israel that is much too large to fit on the present Temple Mount site. The Temple of Ezekiel proper measures 875 feet square, and it sits in the middle of a large consecrated area Ezekiel’s temple is also very different in many details from any previous temples that have existed in Israel (or elsewhere). Therefore most Bible scholars believe there will one day exist in the Holy Land a Fourth or ‘Millennial’ Temple.” (www.templemount.org/ezektmp.html) He goes on to write, “According to many Christian Bible scholars, the Fourth Temple (Ezekiel 40-45) will be ‘memorial’ – a teaching center apparently to instruct men about the holiness of God and proper worship during the coming kingdom of Jesus on earth. As sinful men and women continue to be born into the world in the millennium, the temple is supposed to remind everyone of the substitutionary death of Jesus on the cross, as the ‘Lamb of God’ some two thousand years earlier.” (www.templemount.org/ezektmp.html) Again, Dolphin as Schmitt and Laney reflects in his interpretation of the temple his dispensational theology. This interpretation is very popular today among evangelicals. - Ezekiel’s Temple (Ezekiel 40-48) - Watchman Radio Hour with Alex Dodson

I’d say Ezekiel 38 occurs directly after Ezekiel 37...

TribulationSigns · Apr 3, 2021

Douggg said:
In 1Thessalonians5, v9-11 the rapture/resurrection takes place before the beginning of the Day of the Lord.

The world will be saying peace and safety right before the Day of the Lord begins.

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

You got the Great Tribulation, The Judgment, and the Day of the Lord all messed up.

The Great Tribulation itself is not the wrath of God. It is tribulation, only greater, FOR the Elect, in the congregation, UNTIL they are called to come out of unfaithful congregation (Babylon the Great) when God JUDGES HER. Nothing to do with the Great Tribulation period. Can't you read?

Rev 18:8-10
(8) Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
(9) And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
(10) Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

The Day of the Lord is the judgment of God's congregation. This is what the sun, moon, and stars referred to. The Great Tribulation comes BEFORE the judgment. The Second Coming, as well as the rapture at the Last Trump, comes AFTER the Judgment. You missed the one-hour judgment of the harlot. Get that fact straight first.

It's funny that you did not even mention the judgment of the harlot in your chart. I am curious about where you will fit the one-hour judgment of the harlot in your flawed chart. But remember, do you even know that the one hour in the book of Revelation won't be understood as literal? I bet you probably think it is exactly 60 minutes judgment. Oh, you probably think there will be 30 minutes of silence from heaven, Revelation 8:1, too?

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When does Ezekiel 38 occur?

When does Ezekiel 38 occur?

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Post-Trib

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rockytopva

Love to pray! :)

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TribulationSigns

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TribulationSigns

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Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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chad kincham

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TribulationSigns

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