Removing the laws of God- what does it really mean?

LoveGodsWord · Apr 2, 2021

Leaf473 said:
The issue that I'm putting forward is this: If the commandment to do no work on the Seventh day is written on the hearts of Born again Christians, why do most of them seem unaware of it?

It is true many people break God's 4th commandment out of ignorance in fulfillment of the prophecies according to the scriptures where the man of sin has changed times and laws *Daniel 7:25. Most people have been handed down the man-made teaching and tradition of Sunday worship which is not a biblical teaching but a man-made teachings that has led many to break Gods' 4th commandment. God knew that we would forget His 4th commandment but it is there in the scriptures for all to see and he tells us to "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy - Exodus 20:8. Before the Spirit of the law comes we must know the letter of the law that leads to Gods' Spirit because according to the scriptures Gods' Spirit is the Spirit of the truth of Gods' Word in John 6:63 which we are saved by in John 17:17. The purpose of Gods' law according to the scriptures in the new covenant is to give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken and God's 4th commandment is one of them *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4. According to James if we break anyone of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin. The first four commandments are our duty of love to God and the second six the duty of love to our fellow man. Those who are born again to love do not break God's commandments they are obedient to them because love is expressed by obeying God's law as we have faith in God's Word not by breaking them *Matthew 22:36-40; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:17-20; 26; James 2:8-12; 1 John 2:3-4; Romans 3:31.

Hope this is helpful

pescador · Apr 2, 2021

imge said:
Having faith is very important, but God asked us to obey Him, which is why there are so much scripture on keeping (obeying) God's commandments in both the Old and New Testaments. We are saved by grace (God's gift to give or not) though our faith, if we have a changed heart, we obey His commandments because they are written in our hearts and we obey out of our great love for our Savior because He asked us to obey and His commandments are not burdensome. We are told James 1:22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.

I think its important to let Jesus answer how we can enter into life. You will have to disagree with Him because they are His own Words...

Matthew 19:17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

Mathew 7:22 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

Mathew 5:19
Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Mathew 7:23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Mathew 13:41
The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,

Mathew 15:9 And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”

Mathew 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Mathew 23:28 Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

Mathew 24:12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.

Mark 10:19 You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’ ‘Do not bear false witness,’ ‘Do not defraud,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother.’

1 John 3:4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments.

John 14:21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

1 Thessalonians 4:1-3,4 Finally then, brethren, we urge and exhort in the Lord Jesus that you should abound more and more, just as you received from us how you ought to walk and to please God; 2 for you know what commandments we gave you through the Lord Jesus.

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

1 John 2:4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3:22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.

1 John 3:24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

1 John 5:2
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

2 John 1:6 This is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, that as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it.

Revelations 12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelations 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Revelations 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

The First Covenant: law The Second Covenant: faith. If you put yourself under the Law you have denied the saving work of Christ.

Romans 6:14, "For sin will have no mastery over you, because you are not under law but under grace" sums it up perfectly!

SabbathBlessings · Apr 2, 2021

Those scripture quotes are all while under the New Covenant. Many of these quotes are directly from Jesus. You will have to take it up with our Savior if you disagree. God bless

LoveGodsWord · Apr 2, 2021

pescador said:
The First Covenant: law The Second Covenant: faith. If you put yourself under the Law you have denied the saving work of Christ. Romans 6:14, "For sin will have no mastery over you, because you are not under law but under grace" sums it up perfectly!

There are many laws that made up the old covenant not just the 10 commandment. The "shadow laws" being written in the laws for remission of sins by Moses under Gods' instruction in the book of the covenant *Exodus 24:7; Hebrews 10:1; Colossians 2:17 (see also links to Psalms 40:7 and Hebrews 10:7). It is the "shadow laws" for remission of sins that are fulfilled in the body of Christ as well as all those laws that point to the coming of Jesus as the Messiah and God's plan of salvation for all man-kind under the new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12; from Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27; Matthew 22:36-40; Romans 13:8-10; Romans 3:31. Gods' law in the new covenant has the same role it always has and that is to give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken (moral wrong doing) and righteousness (moral right doing) when obeyed from the heart through faith *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and to lead us to God that we might be forgiven through faith (Galatians 3:22-25). According to James if we break anyone of God's 10 commandments (including the Sabbath which is one of Gods 10 commandments written in Exodus 20:8-11) we stand guilty before God of breaking all of his commandments in James 2:10-11. According to the scriptures no one is "under the law" if we have confessed our sins to God and through faith in God's Word repented from our sins as it is written in 1 John 1:9 that if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us for our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. It is not Gods' will that we sin according to 1 John 2:1 but if any man sins we have an advocate with the father Jesus Christ the righteous *1 John 2:2. We are only "under the law" if we stand before God guilty of breaking the law *Romans 3:19

God bless.

Leaf473 · Apr 2, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
It is true many people break God's 4th commandment out of ignorance in fulfillment of the prophecies according to the scriptures where the man of sin has changed times and laws *Daniel 7:25. Most people have been handed down the man-made teaching and tradition of Sunday worship which is not a biblical teaching but a man-made teachings that has led many to break Gods' 4th commandment. God knew that we would forget His 4th commandment but it is there in the scriptures for all to see and he tells us to "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy - Exodus 20:8. Before the Spirit of the law comes we must know the letter of the law that leads to Gods' Spirit because according to the scriptures Gods' Spirit is the Spirit of the truth of Gods' Word in John 6:63 which we are saved by in John 17:17. The purpose of Gods' law according to the scriptures in the new covenant is to give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken and God's 4th commandment is one of them *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4. According to James if we break anyone of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin. The first four commandments are our duty of love to God and the second six the duty of love to our fellow man. Those who are born again to love do not break God's commandments they are obedient to them because love is expressed by obeying God's law as we have faith in God's Word not by breaking them *Matthew 22:36-40; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:17-20; 26; James 2:8-12; 1 John 2:3-4; Romans 3:31.

Hope this is helpful

Most Born again Christians break the fourth commandment out of ignorance?

A person can be ignorant of something that is written on their heart?

LoveGodsWord · Apr 2, 2021

Leaf473 said:
Most Born again Christians break the fourth commandment out of ignorance?

A person can be ignorant of something that is written on their heart?

Yes a person can be ignorant of God's requirements by not knowing the truth of Gods' Word as it is written our faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God *Romans 10:17. So saving faith comes first by knowing the truth of Gods' Word in which we then believe. So when we do not know any better God does not hold us accountable for sin as new Christians until he gives us a knowledge of what His truth is as we continue in His Word and learn of him *John 8:31-36. What do you think James 4:17 and Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31 mean? When we first become Christian we are called babes in Christ because we do not know very much about the requirements of God's Word so God only holds us accountable according to the scriptures on what we know, not what we do not know. Some call this process of Christian growing or growth sanctification *1 Peter 1:2; 1 Corinthians 1:30; 1 Thessalonians 4:3-4; 2 Thessalonians 2:13 which is the work of a lifetime as we continue learning Gods' Word *John 8:31-34. So know if someone has been taught the scriptures falsely and does not know something is sin, God does not hold us accountable for that sin until he gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word and we choose to reject it in order to continue in sin at which time if we continue to reject God's Word in order to continue in known unrepentant sin we are in danger of the judgement according to Hebrews 10:26-31 because we are now no longer in ignorance in regards to the requirements of God's Word and have been given a knowledge of the truth of God's Word. When God gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word he calls all men everywhere to believe and follow what he says *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31. God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth. The hour is coming and now is that Gods true worshipers will hear His Voice (the Word) and follow him and worship Him in Spirit and in truth (John 4:23-24; John 10:26-27).

Nathan@work · Apr 3, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Yes a person can be ignorant of God's requirements by not knowing the truth of Gods' Word as it is written our faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God *Romans 10:17. So saving faith comes first by knowing the truth of Gods' Word in which we then believe. So when we do not know any better God does not hold us accountable for sin as new Christians until he gives us a knowledge of what His truth is as we continue in His Word and learn of him *John 8:31-36. What do you think James 4:17 and Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31 mean? When we first become Christian we are called babes in Christ because we do not know very much about the requirements of God's Word so God only holds us accountable according to the scriptures on what we know, not what we do not know. Some call this process of Christian growing or growth sanctification *1 Peter 1:2; 1 Corinthians 1:30; 1 Thessalonians 4:3-4; 2 Thessalonians 2:13 which is the work of a lifetime as we continue learning Gods' Word *John 8:31-34. So know if someone has been taught the scriptures falsely and does not know something is sin, God does not hold us accountable for that sin until he gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word and we choose to reject it in order to continue in sin at which time if we continue to reject God's Word in order to continue in known unrepentant sin we are in danger of the judgement according to Hebrews 10:26-31 because we are now no longer in ignorance in regards to the requirements of God's Word and have been given a knowledge of the truth of God's Word. When God gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word he calls all men everywhere to believe and follow what he says *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31. God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth. The hour is coming and now is that Gods true worshipers will hear His Voice (the Word) and follow him and worship Him in Spirit and in truth (John 4:23-24; John 10:26-27).

Actually, a person with the Spirit cannot break a command out of ignorance.

That would mean they did not know the commandment, and therefore did not know they were breaking it.

The Spirit would not let a person not know the very thing written on your heart.

What does happen is the deceiver will come along, much like in the Garden, and tell you that the command doesn’t mean what it really says.

He will deceive by way of twisting everything written to fit what he wants you to believe. What does he want you to believe?

For starters he doesn’t want you to believe that Jesus is the Christ. Oh, he is ok with you believing that Jesus was the Son of God - but he doesn’t want you to believe that He is the Messiah. Why?

Well, if you actually believe He is the Messiah, then you will also know He came in fulfillment of the law and prophets. You will believe that your rest is in Him. You will believe that you are led by Him - not the law.

Yea, the enemy likes to twist things to confuse people. The most simplest things are made complicated by him. Sad.

Freth · Apr 3, 2021

Nathan@work said:
Actually, a person with the Spirit cannot break a command out of ignorance.

That would mean they did not know the commandment, and therefore did not know they were breaking it.

The Spirit would not let a person not know the very thing written on your heart.

What does happen is the deceiver will come along, much like in the Garden, and tell you that the command doesn’t mean what it really says.

He will deceive by way of twisting everything written to fit what he wants you to believe. What does he want you to believe?

For starters he doesn’t want you to believe that Jesus is the Christ. Oh, he is ok with you believing that Jesus was the Son of God - but he doesn’t want you to believe that He is the Messiah. Why?

Well, if you actually believe He is the Messiah, then you will also know He came in fulfillment of the law and prophets. You will believe that your rest is in Him. You will believe that you are led by Him - not the law.

Yea, the enemy likes to twist things to confuse people. The most simplest things are made complicated by him. Sad.

I find it a tad bit offensive that you would equate God-fearing Christians showing scripture and context to Satan's deception in the garden.

Either you can lay out scriptural proof to refute the 95 pages of exposition or you can't. If you can't, point-for-point, after this many pages, then in my mind that's the end of the conversation.

Opinion isn't a compelling argument vs scripture, which is why I don't respond to every post and why I don't engage in lengthy debate where opinion is weighed against scripture. I state my case scripturally and let it stand on its own. If I'm wrong, I'll find out in short order.

Happy Sabbath!

Leaf473 · Apr 3, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Yes a person can be ignorant of God's requirements by not knowing the truth of Gods' Word as it is written our faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God *Romans 10:17. So saving faith comes first by knowing the truth of Gods' Word in which we then believe. So when we do not know any better God does not hold us accountable for sin as new Christians until he gives us a knowledge of what His truth is as we continue in His Word and learn of him *John 8:31-36. What do you think James 4:17 and Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31 mean? When we first become Christian we are called babes in Christ because we do not know very much about the requirements of God's Word so God only holds us accountable according to the scriptures on what we know, not what we do not know. Some call this process of Christian growing or growth sanctification *1 Peter 1:2; 1 Corinthians 1:30; 1 Thessalonians 4:3-4; 2 Thessalonians 2:13 which is the work of a lifetime as we continue learning Gods' Word *John 8:31-34. So know if someone has been taught the scriptures falsely and does not know something is sin, God does not hold us accountable for that sin until he gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word and we choose to reject it in order to continue in sin at which time if we continue to reject God's Word in order to continue in known unrepentant sin we are in danger of the judgement according to Hebrews 10:26-31 because we are now no longer in ignorance in regards to the requirements of God's Word and have been given a knowledge of the truth of God's Word. When God gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word he calls all men everywhere to believe and follow what he says *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31. God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth. The hour is coming and now is that Gods true worshipers will hear His Voice (the Word) and follow him and worship Him in Spirit and in truth (John 4:23-24; John 10:26-27).

Hi LoveGodsWord,
Lots of great points in your post, let's start with your first sentence and take them one at a time.

"Yes a person can be ignorant of God's requirements by not knowing the truth of Gods' Word as it is written our faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God *Romans 10:17."

I agree that faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Now, regarding God putting his law deep inside of us and writing it on our heart, do you feel this is a slow process?

A person believes and is born again. I'm assuming you believe that happens all at once, but maybe you don't?

Anyways, the person is born again, and do you feel that at that point God puts just a small amount of his law deep inside of them?

And then as they read things on paper (external) about a law of God, or listen to someone (external) teaching about that law, and they gain more faith, then God puts that particular law deep inside them?

Nathan@work · Apr 3, 2021

Freth said:
I find it a tad bit offensive that you would equate God-fearing Christians showing scripture and context to Satan's deception in the garden.

Either you can lay out scriptural proof to refute the 95 pages of exposition or you can't. If you can't, point-for-point, after this many pages, then in my mind that's the end of the conversation.

Opinion isn't a compelling argument vs scripture, which is why I don't respond to every post and why I don't engage in lengthy debate where opinion is weighed against scripture. I state my case scripturally and let it stand on its own. If I'm wrong, I'll find out in short order.

Happy Sabbath!

I’m not refuting 95 pages of exposition. I’m refuting posts within those 95 pages that error in trying to put people into slavery, or keep them there.

Whether or not you respond is up to you. I won’t stop shinning the light into darkness.

Nathan@work · Apr 3, 2021

imge said:
Having faith is very important, but God asked us to obey Him, which is why there are so much scripture on keeping (obeying) God's commandments in both the Old and New Testaments. We are saved by grace (God's gift to give or not) though our faith, if we have a changed heart, we obey His commandments because they are written in our hearts and we obey out of our great love for our Savior because He asked us to obey and His commandments are not burdensome. We are told James 1:22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.

I think its important to let Jesus answer how we can enter into life. You will have to disagree with Him because they are His own Words...

Matthew 19:17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

Mathew 7:22 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

Mathew 5:19
Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Mathew 7:23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Mathew 13:41
The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,

Mathew 15:9 And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”

Mathew 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Mathew 23:28 Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

Mathew 24:12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.

Mark 10:19 You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’ ‘Do not bear false witness,’ ‘Do not defraud,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother.’

1 John 3:4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments.

John 14:21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

1 Thessalonians 4:1-3,4 Finally then, brethren, we urge and exhort in the Lord Jesus that you should abound more and more, just as you received from us how you ought to walk and to please God; 2 for you know what commandments we gave you through the Lord Jesus.

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

1 John 2:4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3:22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.

1 John 3:24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

1 John 5:2
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

2 John 1:6 This is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, that as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it.

Revelations 12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelations 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Revelations 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

Faith is obedience. It is actually the only perfect obedience we can do.

Following the letter of the law the way we want to is not Faith no matter how you cut it. It is following our own desires to do what we think is best.

Faith is only in following the Spirit.

You follow one or the other, your self interpretation of the law or the Spirit.

Only those led by the Spirit are children of God.

SabbathBlessings · Apr 3, 2021

Nathan@work said:
I’m not refuting 95 pages of exposition. I’m refuting posts within those 95 pages that error in trying to put people into slavery, or keep them there.

Whether or not you respond is up to you. I won’t stop shinning the light into darkness.

We should seek God’s light, which is expressed though His laws and our love to Him when we obey.

Proverbs 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:

God bless

Nathan@work · Apr 3, 2021

imge said:
We should seek God’s light, which is expressed though His laws and our love to Him when we obey.

Proverbs 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:

God bless

Gods light is His Son because His Son knows His ways, and man only knows his own ways.

Psalms 107:1-16 (ESV) Oh give thanks to the LORD, for he is good, for his steadfast love endures forever! Let the redeemed of the LORD say so, whom he has redeemed from trouble and gathered in from the lands, from the east and from the west, from the north and from the south. Some wandered in desert wastes, finding no way to a city to dwell in; hungry and thirsty, their soul fainted within them. Then they cried to the LORD in their trouble, and he delivered them from their distress. He led them by a straight way till they reached a city to dwell in. Let them thank the LORD for his steadfast love, for his wondrous works to the children of man! For he satisfies the longing soul, and the hungry soul he fills with good things. Some sat in darkness and in the shadow of death, prisoners in affliction and in irons, for they had rebelled against the words of God, and spurned the counsel of the Most High. So he bowed their hearts down with hard labor; they fell down, with none to help. Then they cried to the LORD in their trouble, and he delivered them from their distress. He brought them out of darkness and the shadow of death, and burst their bonds apart. Let them thank the LORD for his steadfast love, for his wondrous works to the children of man! For he shatters the doors of bronze and cuts in two the bars of iron.

Galatians 4:21-27 (ESV) Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law? For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia; she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. For it is written, “Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear; break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor! For the children of the desolate one will be more than those of the one who has a husband.”

Leaf473 · Apr 3, 2021

So I spent some time looking at the website for the Granite Bay Hilltop SDA Church.
Granite Bay Hilltop Seventh Day Adventist Church

It seems to be a "commuter" Church, designed for people to drive in from the surrounding areas.

This strikes me as odd. If the idea is to avoid work on the Sabbath, then it seems like they would want to focus on smaller neighborhood level churches, possibly meeting in people's houses.

That way people could enjoy a short pleasant walk to church.

SabbathBlessings · Apr 3, 2021

Leaf473 said:
So I spent some time looking at the website for the Granite Bay Hilltop SDA Church.
Granite Bay Hilltop Seventh Day Adventist Church

It seems to be a "commuter" Church, designed for people to drive in from the surrounding areas.

This strikes me as odd. If the idea is to avoid work on the Sabbath, then it seems like they would want to focus on smaller neighborhood level churches, possibly meeting in people's houses.

That way people could enjoy a short pleasant walk to church.

There are many SDA churches in the Sacramento area, this is probably one of the larger ones, because a lot of people attend and they keep out growing the church. It is not a sin to drive to church to listen to God’s Word, but this church happens to be in an area where many people live and could easily walk there if preferred that method of transportation. There is a large housing community directly across the street too and surrounding areas of the church.

This church is a very active church, with lots of programs throughout the week, not just limiting it to Sabbath School and Church on Sabbath. If you are in the area I highly recommend it. It’s also next to the AmazingFacts headquarters.

Happy Sabbath

LoveGodsWord · Apr 3, 2021

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ Yes a person can be ignorant of God's requirements by not knowing the truth of Gods' Word as it is written our faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God *Romans 10:17. So saving faith comes first by knowing the truth of Gods' Word in which we then believe. So when we do not know any better God does not hold us accountable for sin as new Christians until he gives us a knowledge of what His truth is as we continue in His Word and learn of him *John 8:31-36. What do you think James 4:17 and Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31 mean? When we first become Christian we are called babes in Christ because we do not know very much about the requirements of God's Word so God only holds us accountable according to the scriptures on what we know, not what we do not know. Some call this process of Christian growing or growth sanctification *1 Peter 1:2; 1 Corinthians 1:30; 1 Thessalonians 4:3-4; 2 Thessalonians 2:13 which is the work of a lifetime as we continue learning Gods' Word *John 8:31-34. So know if someone has been taught the scriptures falsely and does not know something is sin, God does not hold us accountable for that sin until he gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word and we choose to reject it in order to continue in sin at which time if we continue to reject God's Word in order to continue in known unrepentant sin we are in danger of the judgement according to Hebrews 10:26-31 because we are now no longer in ignorance in regards to the requirements of God's Word and have been given a knowledge of the truth of God's Word. When God gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word he calls all men everywhere to believe and follow what he says *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31. God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth. The hour is coming and now is that Gods true worshipers will hear His Voice (the Word) and follow him and worship Him in Spirit and in truth (John 4:23-24; John 10:26-27).

Your response here...

Leaf473 said:
Now, regarding God putting his law deep inside of us and writing it on our heart, do you feel this is a slow process? A person believes and is born again. I'm assuming you believe that happens all at once, but maybe you don't? Anyways, the person is born again, and do you feel that at that point God puts just a small amount of his law deep inside of them? And then as they read things on paper (external) about a law of God, or listen to someone (external) teaching about that law, and they gain more faith, then God puts that particular law deep inside them?

Hi Leaf, the point of the scriptures provided in the post you are quoting from is to show that according to the scriptures Christian growth starts off as we are babes in Christ not knowing much of the Word of God and at these times God only holds us accountable to what we know not what we do not know *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; James 4:17. As we continue in God's Word Jesus says we are His disciples in John 8:31-36 and the promise is that the truth will free us from our sins. We should note here that being a disciple of Jesus is conditional on continuing in God's Word. That is seeking to know God through the scriptures and seeking to follow what God's Word says *Matthew 7:21. John 8:31-36 and John 17:17 along with John 6:63 are also more evidence along with all the scriptures provided in the post you are quoting from that Christian growth or as some call "sanctification" is a work of the lifetime as we continue learning of God through His Word we become more and more like Jesus as we seek by faith to follow what Jesus teaches us. So this is a continual process according to the scriptures as we live up to all the knowledge that God has revealed to us and continues to reveal to us as we seek Him through His Word. God's laws are written on our hear to love as God makes us aware of them as we seek Him through His Word.

God bless

Leaf473 · Apr 3, 2021

imge said:
There are many SDA churches in the Sacramento area, this is probably one of the larger ones, because a lot of people attend and they keep out growing the church. It is not a sin to drive to church to listen to God’s Word, but this church happens to be in an area where many people live and could easily walk there if preferred that method of transportation. There is a large housing community directly across the street.

This church is very active church, with lots of programs throughout the week, not just limiting it to Sabbath School and Church on Sabbath. If you are in the area I highly recommend it. It’s also next to the AmazingFacts headquarters.

Happy Sabbath

To say it is not a sin to drive to church sounds to me like a real stretch of the "no work" part of the commandment.
Also the "no kindling fires" law.

Strict Jewish people live within a short walk of their synagogue, so it's very possible to build a community where people don't have to drive on the Sabbath.

But I'm fine with stretching the commandment, not being uptight about it, as the spirit leads.

I think it's good, then, to extend that same grace to other people who want to stretch the commandment to say that it is fulfilled by resting from our works, trying to achieve righteousness on our own.

Nathan@work · Apr 3, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Your response here...

Hi Leaf, the point of the scriptures provided in the post you are quoting from is to show that according to the scriptures Christian growth starts off as we are babes in Christ not knowing much of the Word of God and at these times God only holds us accountable to what we know not what we do not know *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; James 4:17. As we continue in God's Word Jesus says we are His disciples in John 8:31-36 and the promise is that the truth will free us from our sins. This is also more evidence along with all the scriptures provided in the post you are quoting from that Christian growth or as some call "sanctification" is a work of the lifetime as we continue learning of God through His Word we become more and more like Jesus as we seek by faith to follow what Jesus teaches us. So this is a continual process according to the scriptures as we live up to all the knowledge that God has revealed to us and continues to reveal to us as we seek Him through His Word.

God bless

Christ already has set us free from sin. It is not a future thing, it is a present thing.

If you are in sin it is because you choose to be there, not because you do not know you are there.

I notice you don’t say a word about the most central aspect of a child of God - His Spirit that He has given us.

His Spirit teaches us as He leads us. If you are not led/taught by the Spirit you are not His.

Nathan@work · Apr 3, 2021

Leaf473 said:
To say it is not a sin to drive to church sounds to me like a real stretch of the "no work" part of the commandment.
Also the "no kindling fires" law.

Strict Jewish people live within a short walk of their synagogue, so it's very possible to build a community where people don't have to drive on the Sabbath.

But I'm fine with stretching the commandment, not being uptight about it, as the spirit leads.

I think it's good, then, to extend that same grace to other people who want to stretch the commandment to say that it is fulfilled by resting from our works, trying to achieve righteousness on our own.

I’m sorry Leaf, commandments cannot be stretched.

Any stretch and they break. Ask Moses.

LoveGodsWord · Apr 3, 2021

Nathan@work said:
Christ already has set us free from sin. It is not a future thing, it is a present thing.

If you are in sin it is because you choose to be there, not because you do not know you are there.

I notice you don’t say a word about the most central aspect of a child of God - His Spirit that He has given us.

His Spirit teaches us as He leads us. If you are not led/taught by the Spirit you are not His.

Past sins yes! Christ has set us free if we through faith believe Gods' Word and repent from our sins *John 3:16; Acts of the Apostles 2:38. God's salvation is conditional according to the scriptures on believing Gods' Word and following what God says *Matthew 7:21-23. God's Spirit teaches us through his Word because he is the Spirit of the Word of God not outside or separate to God's revealed Word according to the scriptures (see John 6:63; John 17:17; John 8:31-36)

Removing the laws of God- what does it really mean?

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