ARE ALL THE 10 COMMANDMENTS IN THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT?

LoveGodsWord

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Psalms 119:172 is calling all laws moral law and if that is true you are declaring the entire system of law over us. If we are to use terms like moral/ceremonial/shadow or others we need criteria to define what they are. Your criteria of saying all laws are moral laws are not really criteria at all, it just skirts the issue, it also doesn't disqualify the 4th from being a ceremonial law.
So you now agree that God's 10 commandments are moral laws based on the scriptures shared with you? That is a good start.

As to the inferences in the rest of your post?

All Gods laws a moral laws because they are instruction of right doing. Where your mistake is here is that there are two covenants in question all God's laws under the old covenant if you were living under the old covenant would be moral right doing this is true as all of God's laws under the old covenant for someone living at that time is God's instruction for moral right doing.

However, we are not living under the old covenant we are in the new covenant today based on better promises *Hebrews 8:1-6. It is these better promises of God's forgiveness of sin that are fulfilled and continued in Jesus not in the fleshly laws of the old covenant but in the Spirit of God's grace and His sacrifice for the sins of the world in Jesus *John 1:29. So today in the new covenant it would be moral wrong doing (unrighteousness) for us to go out and follow the old covenant laws for remission of sins doing animal sacrifices when these laws of animal sacrifices and sin offerings are now fulfilled and continued in Christ!

The Mosiac "shadow laws" for remission of sin are today fulfilled and continued in Jesus (ceremonial Sanctuary laws; Levitical Priesthood, animal sacrifices and sin offerings etc) based on better promises *Hebrews 7:1-28; Hebrews 8:1-13; Hebrews 9:1-28 and Hebrews 10:1-17. Jesus under the new covenant is now our great high Priest ministering on our behalf in the heavenly Sanctuary that the Lord pitched and not men and is also God's sacrifice for sin once and for all.

So doing God's old covenant "shadow laws" for remission of sins or other "shadow laws" that are fulfilled in God's new covenant promise when the promise has already arrived is no longer a moral law because it is no longer moral right doing therefore no longer a moral law because God's Word in the new covenant tells us what we now need to do to seek God's forgiveness and follow his word based on better promises given to God's people who seek Gods salvation from their sins Hebrews 8:10-12; from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27; Hebrews 10:1-17.

Hope this is helpful
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Actually LGW....worshipping is a ceremonial law...

Please see Biblical and Rabbinical Ceremonies and tell me what you think about it.
Thanks!

CEREMONIES AND THE CEREMONIAL LAW - JewishEncyclopedia.com

Yes and no sis.

For the Yes of yesterday (old covenant)...

In the old covenant there were both many kinds of sabbaths. These included both God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments and the "ceremonial shadow sabbaths" connected to the feast days (e.g Leviticus 23:6-8; Leviticus 23:24-25; Leviticus 23:27-32; Leviticus 23:34-36; Leviticus 23:39; Leviticus 23:7-8; 21;24; 27; 35-36; Leviticus 25:2; Leviticus 25:9-54). In the old covenant also, the Mosaic "ceremonial shadow laws" for remission of sins, from the Levitical Priesthood and the Sanctuary laws for animal sacrifice and sin offerings which were also linked to all Sabbaths where there would be twice and many sin offerings made on the Sabbath (including the weekly Sabbath of God's 4th commandment) Compared to any other day *Numbers 28:9-10. So under the old covenant laws because all the Sabbaths where connected directly to the ceremonial laws for remission of sins they of course could be considered ceremonial and moral because they were God's laws for instruction of right doing as shown already in Psalms 119:172 (righteousness means moral right doing in the Hebrew).

For the no of today (new covenant)....

Today, however we are no longer in the old covenant laws for remission of sins but in the new covenant where all the Mosiac "shadow laws" for remission of sin are today fulfilled and continued in Jesus (ceremonial Sanctuary laws; Levitical Priesthood, animal sacrifices and sin offerings etc) based on better promises *Hebrews 7:1-28; Hebrews 8:1-13; Hebrews 9:1-28 and Hebrews 10:1-17. Jesus under the new covenant is now our great high Priest ministering on our behalf in the heavenly Sanctuary that the Lord pitched and not men and is also God's sacrifice for sin once and for all. So today these "ceremonial shadow laws" are not a requirement for Christian living because we seek God's forgiveness today based on better promises of the new covenant (Hebrews 8:1-6; Hebrews 8:10-12; from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27; Hebrews 10:1-17). What this mean now is that none of these ceremonial laws for remission of sins are no loner linked to the Sabbath of God's 4th commandment not making it ceremonial and moral but only a moral law like the rest of God's 10 commandments of moral right doing (righteousness) to both God and man *Psalms 119:172 and how we express our love to God and man *Matthew 22:36-40; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12. Of course the Jews do not accept this teaching because they reject Christ.

Hope this is helpful. :wave:

PS, I read that article you provided. There is nothing in that article showing that the Sabbath was a ceremonial law even from the Old testament that I could see although I hope I have provided some perspective above under the old covenant application of ceremonial laws. Keep in mind also, those from the link you provided are Jews who do not accept the new covenant teachings and have rejected Jesus as the Messiah (Christ).

God bless
 
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DamianWarS

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This is for you and @LoveGodsWord

If you believe Christ's body resting dead on the Sabbath is fulfilling a law...
then you must also believe in the keeping of the Sabbath and all it entails.
If you change what it entails....then it is man that is declaring what one
must do or omit on the Sabbath and not God's word.

What I ask both of you is this: When do you think Jesus went to preach to the "prisoners"
1 Peter 3:19-20
19in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison, ....


IOW,,, do you believe he stayed "dead" until Sunday morning?
His flesh, yes. His flesh is all that is needed to rest. I don't think any of us can comment on work/rest outside of the flesh as it is the flesh that fatigues and needs rest.
 
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DamianWarS

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So you now agree that God's 10 commandments are moral laws based on the scriptures shared with you? That is a good start.
So it was a strawman trap? And to the detriment to your own argument I might add. I disagree with calling the entire system of the law moral laws as we are not under the law. For those under the law (like the context of the psalm) it is moral law, it's just conditional moral law and not universal moral law (like stealing/murdering/lying).

If God tells me to jump then it is a moral law to me (conditional) but I wouldn't force that on those who God does not call to jump. But again if we are going to use these terms to scrutinize the law it is not productive to use an umbrella term over all the law and we need to define ceritera to determine what is moral/cerimonial/shadow or other terms that may be used and what that means for us today. Since I know you call other laws shadow laws then under your own argument these would be moral laws as well. That argument is not helping this conversation and seems to be there as trap and for no other reason which causes me to question your character.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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So it was a strawman trap? And to the detriment to your own argument I might add. I disagree with calling the entire system of the law moral laws as we are not under the law. For those under the law (like the context of the psalm) it is moral law, it's just conditional moral law and not universal moral law (like stealing/murdering/lying).

If God tells me to jump then it is a moral law to me (conditional) but I wouldn't force that on those who God does not call to jump. But again if we are going to use these terms to scrutinize the law it is not productive to use an umbrella term over all the law and we need to define ceritera to determine what is moral/cerimonial/shadow or other terms that may be used and what that means for us today. Since I know you call other laws shadow laws then under your own argument these would be moral laws as well. That argument is not helping this conversation and seems to be there as trap and for no other reason which causes me to question your character.

Hmm nope. Not being "under the law" according to Romans 3:19 means not being under the condemnation of the law *Romans 8:1-4. We do not receive God's forgiveness so that we are now free to break God's law and be disobedient to God's Word. Gods grace is given to all those who believe God's Word for obedience to the faith according to Paul in Romans 1:5 not so that we can continue in sin. According to John those who continue in sin have not seen God or know God *1 John 2:3-4. Paul also says those who continue in known unrepentant sin after being given a knowledge of the truth of God's Word will not enter into God's kingdom because they reject the gift of Gods dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing doing despite to the Spirit of God's grace *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; Hebrews 10:26-31; Romans 6:23. According to the scriptures we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9 but Gods grace is so we can be obedient to the faith *Romans 1:5. Obedience to God's Law is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 as we believe and follow his word *John 10:26-27. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27. Therefore we do not abolish God's law through faith like some people teach but God's law is established in the heart by faith that works by love *Romans 3:31; 1 John 5:3-4; Romans 13:8-10. According to the scriptures, sin (breaking God' commandments and not believing and following God's Word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:6-10; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14.

Hope this helps.
 
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DamianWarS

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Nope. Though you trapped yourself I see in regards to Psalms 119:172
I'm not the one using the verse to bait which is some sort of recycled strawman you like to keep pulling out. Some how you think it's a mic drop but it's more like shooting yourself in the foot. Is the only defence you have for the 4th being a moral law by calling all laws moral laws? Do you not see how that makes no sense at all?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I'm not the one using the verse to bait which is some sort of recycled strawman you like to keep pulling out. Some how you think it's a mic drop but it's more like shooting yourself in the foot. Is the only defence you have for the 4th being a moral law by calling all laws moral laws? Do you not see how that makes no sense at all?
As posted earlier I was not trying to bait you. Just because you got caught out does not mean I was intending it that way or planned it. Psalms 119:172 is only one proof text showing God's commandments are moral laws. It is only one text of a much larger study in regards to the bibles definition of moral laws that I have done. As already shown here, it does not need to go much further then that but happy to share more if your interested but I do not think it would change your mind though it seems.
 
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DamianWarS

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As posted earlier I was not trying to bait you. Just because you got caught out does not mean I was intending it that way or planned it. Psalms 119:172 is only one proof text showing God's commandments are moral laws. It is only one text of a much larger study in regards to the bibles definition of moral laws that I have done. As already shown here, it does not need to go much further then that but happy to share more if your interested but I do not think it would change your mind though it seems.
you've posted the same argument countless times before, this was no surprise attack (and I've called you out before too). the argument is a strawman and makes no logical sense as it props up the entire law not just the 10 where you're focusing on. if it's a proof text it is a proof text inclusive the entire law not exclusive the laws you want. What possible purpose is there is in declaring the whole law as moral law when you knowingly do not keep the entire law? Yes to the psalmist it was all moral law because the psalmist was under the entire law, but we are not. When you call the whole law moral and transgress the smallest part then you are guilty of the whole law. You cannot use Psalms 119:172 to isolate the 10 commandments as universal moral laws, that's not what it is saying and if you can't see that then you are just arbitrarily making up stuff to support your argument and have a strong bias, one I'm not interested in participating with.
 
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coffee4u

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* Where is the scripture that says God's 4th Commandment is Abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day?

Sunday is not a Holy day, it is simply a convenient day for public worship.

When God gave the law of keeping the Sabbath day he was giving them an a law to follow because they did not have the Holy Spirit to guide them, they needed an outline of strict laws since they did not have any kind of guide upon their hearts.
Now we should be worshiping, thinking and praying to God everyday.
It isn't about written rules kept, and ticked off, its about our heart.



We were not then or now under the written law.

Romans 2:14-15

14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)


Every day we are to rest in Jesus, everyday is a Sabbath.

Hebrews 4
3 Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said,
“So I declared on oath in my anger,
‘They shall never enter my rest.’”
And yet his works have been finished since the creation of the world. 4 For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: “On the seventh day God rested from all his works.” 5 And again in the passage above he says, “They shall never enter my rest.”
6 Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience, 7 God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.”
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Sunday is not a Holy day, it is simply a convenient day for public worship.
True. Sunday is a man-made teaching and traditions that has led many to break God's 4th commandment. Jesus says those who follow man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God are not worshiping God in *Matthew 15:3-9. Now if man chooses to worship God Sunday and break God's 4th commandment which is the "seventh day of the week" that God blessed and made as a holy day rest. Then how are we worshiping God on Sunday when Jesus says we are not?
When God gave the law of keeping the Sabbath day he was giving them an a law to follow because they did not have the Holy Spirit to guide them, they needed an outline of strict laws since they did not have any kind of guide upon their hearts.
So your saying God's people in the Old testament did not have the Holy Spirit to guide them? What does God's Word say about this claim?

Deuteronomy 34:9 And Joshua the son of Nun was full of the spirit of wisdom; for Moses had laid his hands on him: and the children of Israel listened to him, and did as the LORD commanded Moses.

Ezekiel 37:1 The hand of the LORD was on me, and carried me out in the spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the middle of the valley which was full of bones,

Micah 3:8 But truly I am full of power by the spirit of the LORD, and of judgment, and of might, to declare to Jacob his transgression, and to Israel his sin.

Numbers 11:25 And the LORD came down in a cloud, and spoke to him, and took of the spirit that was on him, and gave it to the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested on them, they prophesied, and did not cease.

Numbers 27:18 And the LORD said to Moses, Take you Joshua the son of Nun, a man in whom is the spirit, and lay your hand on him;

Judges 3:10 And the Spirit of the LORD came on him, and he judged Israel, and went out to war: and the LORD delivered Chushanrishathaim king of Mesopotamia into his hand; and his hand prevailed against Chushanrishathaim.

Judges 6:34 But the Spirit of the LORD came on Gideon, and he blew a trumpet; and Abiezer was gathered after him.

Judges 11:29 Then the Spirit of the LORD came on Jephthah, and he passed over Gilead, and Manasseh, and passed over Mizpeh of Gilead, and from Mizpeh of Gilead he passed over to the children of Ammon.

Judges 14:6 And the Spirit of the LORD came mightily on him, and he rent him as he would have rent a kid, and he had nothing in his hand: but he told not his father or his mother what he had done.

Judges 14:19 And the Spirit of the LORD came on him, and he went down to Ashkelon, and slew thirty men of them, and took their spoil, and gave change of garments to them which expounded the riddle. And his anger was kindled, and he went up to his father's house.

I think I might stop here as there is many more scriptures here that could be posted but as you can see your statement is not true. God's people in the old testament also had God's Spirit guiding and leading them. Do you know why everyone of God's 10 commandments are repeated in the new covenant and what their purpose is in the new covenant?
Now we should be worshiping, thinking and praying to God everyday. It isn't about written rules kept, and ticked off, its about our heart.
True coffee, we should indeed be worshiping God everyday. That does not make everyday a holy day of rest now though does it which is what God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments is about. The new covenant promise is about being born again in the Spirit as we walk be faith into God's new covenant promise of a new heart to love and it is because we love God that we believe his Word and follow him *John 14:14; 1 John 5:3-4; Matthew 22:36-40; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12 according to the scriptures.
We were not then or now under the written law.
Not being "under the law" according to Romans 3:19 means not being under the condemnation of the law *Romans 8:1-4. We do not receive God's forgiveness so that we are now free to break God's law and be disobedient to God's Word. Gods grace is given to all those who believe God's Word for obedience to the faith according to Paul in Romans 1:5 not so that we can continue in sin. According to John those who continue in sin have not seen God or know God *1 John 2:3-4. Paul also says those who continue in known unrepentant sin after being given a knowledge of the truth of God's Word will not enter into God's kingdom because they reject the gift of Gods dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing doing despite to the Spirit of God's grace *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; Hebrews 10:26-31; Romans 6:23. According to the scriptures we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9 but Gods grace is so we can be obedient to the faith *Romans 1:5. Obedience to God's Law is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 as we believe and follow his word *John 10:26-27. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27. Therefore we do not abolish God's law through faith like some people teach but God's law is established in the heart by faith that works by love *Romans 3:31; 1 John 5:3-4; Romans 13:8-10. According to the scriptures, sin (breaking God' commandments and not believing and following God's Word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:6-10; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14.
Romans 2:14-15 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.
The context that your not showing here reads like this...

Romans 2:12-15, [12] For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; [13], For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. [14], For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law to themselves: [15], Which show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.

So the scriptures teach if we sin in the law (without repentance) we will be judged by the law. If we sin without law we will perish without law. Romans 2:14-15 therefore is not saying that there is no law only that if gentiles who do the things in the law from the heart are a law unto themselves because they are following the things and obeying the things in the law because the works of the law are written in their heart. This is expressed by obedience to Gods' law because they are doing by nature the things contained in the law v14.
Every day we are to rest in Jesus, everyday is a Sabbath. Hebrews 4 3 Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said, “So I declared on oath in my anger, ‘They shall never enter my rest.’” And yet his works have been finished since the creation of the world. 4 For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: “On the seventh day God rested from all his works.” 5 And again in the passage above he says, “They shall never enter my rest.” 6 Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience, 7 God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.”
There is NOTHING in Hebrews 4 that says anywhere that Jesus is a Sabbath. In fact Hebrews 4 supports the Sabbath and shows that God's people who believe and follow God's Word will be keeping the Sabbath. Let's add the context back in scripture by scripture and show why?

HEBREWS 4
[1], Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
[2], For to us was the gospel preached, as well as to them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
[3], For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
[4], For he spoke in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
[5], And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

NOTE
: CONTEXT is God's REST from the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST OF CREATION (v4-5) and those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW GOD's WORD enter into God's SABBATH REST as GOD did on the SEVENTH DAY of the week. CONTEXT is GOD's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST and those who believe or do not believe God's WORD and enter into that rest.

6, Seeing therefore it remains that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7, Again, he limits a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if you will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8, For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9, THERE REMAINS A KEEPING OF THE SABBATH TO THE PEOPLE OF GOD

Now notice Hebrews 4, verse 9: “There remains therefore a SABBATH rest to the people of God.” In verses 1, 3, 4 and 8, the Greek word for “rest” is katapausin. It means “rest.” But in verse 9, the Greek word for “rest” is sabbatismos, which is a Hebrew word—Sabbat, which means “the Sabbath”—combined with a Greek suffix—ismos, which means “a keeping of” or “a doing of.” Put together, sabbatismo means “a keeping of the Sabbath.” When correctly translated, Hebrews 4:9 should read, “There remains therefore a keeping of the Sabbath to the people of God.”

10, For he that is entered into his rest (v9 SABBATH REST), he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11, Let us labor therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief (Heb 3).

.................

CONCLUSION: HEBREWS 4 is talking about the Gospel rest of BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD; v29 Learn of me; v30 my burden (doing) is light. This agrees with Hebrews 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. HEBREWS 4:9 is in reference to God's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH RES which is the CONTEXT shown in HEBREWS 4:1-5. HEBREWS 4 therefore with context added is saying that no one enter God's Sabbath rest if they do not BELIEVE God's WORD or follow it.

Hope this helps
 
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LoveGodsWord

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LoveGodsWord said: As posted earlier I was not trying to bait you. Just because you got caught out does not mean I was intending it that way or planned it. Psalms 119:172 is only one proof text showing God's commandments are moral laws. It is only one text of a much larger study in regards to the bibles definition of moral laws that I have done. As already shown here, it does not need to go much further then that but happy to share more if your interested but I do not think it would change your mind though it seems.
Your response here...
you've posted the same argument countless times before, this was no surprise attack (and I've called you out before too).

I am sorry I do not know what your talking about here Damian.

the argument is a strawman and makes no logical sense as it props up the entire law not just the 10 where you're focusing on.

Your only making my point here. If you believe the scripture includes all the law and God's 10 commandments it also includes Gods' 4th commandment Sabbath law *Exodus 20:8-11 right?

if it's a proof text it is a proof text inclusive the entire law not exclusive the laws you want.

Not really Damian as the scripture and chapter contexts determine direct application to God's 10 commandments or general application to all law. For example what law is Romans 7:7, Romans 13:8-10 or James 2:10-11 referring to?

What possible purpose is there is in declaring the whole law as moral law when you knowingly do not keep the entire law? Yes to the psalmist it was all moral law because the psalmist was under the entire law, but we are not. When you call the whole law moral and transgress the smallest part then you are guilty of the whole law. You cannot use Psalms 119:172 to isolate the 10 commandments as universal moral laws, that's not what it is saying and if you can't see that then you are just arbitrarily making up stuff to support your argument and have a strong bias, one I'm not interested in participating with.

Moral laws are moral right doing. God's 10 commandments show us our duty of love to God (first four commandments) and our duty of love to our fellow man (second six commandments). Whether a law is moral or not is covenant dependent. Disobedience to Gods' law is sin *1 John 3:4.

Hope this is helpful.
 
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coffee4u

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Moral laws are moral right doing. God's 10 commandments show us our duty of love to God (first four commandments) and our duty of love to our fellow man (second six commandments). Whether a law is moral or not is covenant dependent. Disobedience to Gods' law is sin *1 John 3:4.

This is the difference between us. We do not view loving God and others as a duty, but rather something that flows out naturally. Which is why we don't follow commands as such, we simply love. A child may leave the last sweet alone for his brother because he knows that is the rule or he may leave the sweet alone because although he would like to eat it he knows his brother would also like to eat it and he wants his brother to be happy. Two different motivations. The child who has moved onto doing what is right is not doing so to obey a rule but out of love. He doesn't need the rule anymore because love is higher above the rule. This is what we believe, that we are a new creation and as such do not need to follow laws but rather follow love.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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This is the difference between us. We do not view loving God and others as a duty, but rather something that flows out naturally. Which is why we don't follow commands as such, we simply love. A child may leave the last sweet alone for his brother because he knows that is the rule or he may leave the sweet alone because although he would like to eat it he knows his brother would also like to eat it and he wants his brother to be happy. Two different motivations. The child who has moved onto doing what is right is not doing so to obey a rule but out of love. He doesn't need the rule anymore because love is higher above the rule. This is what we believe, that we are a new creation and as such do not need to follow laws but rather follow love.

Jeremiah sums up what I have been sharing with you very nicely when he says "Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may you also do good, that are accustomed to do evil" (Jeremiah 13:23). As does Jesus when He says he knows us that we to not have the love of God in us in John 5:42 or that it is only those who know they are sick that needs a physician and that he has only come to save sinners in Matthew 9:12-13. Paul in Romans 3:20-23 says there is none righteous no not one and that Jesus has only come to save sinner in which he says I am chief. This is why Jesus says in John 3:3-7 unless we are born again we cannot see the kingdom of Heaven. All of these scriptures agree with what I have been sharing with you. What do you think they mean? How can anyone profess to love God and break His commandments when Jesus says if you love me keep my commandments *John 14:15: John 15:10 and that those who break God's commandments professing to know God do not know him in 1 John 2:3-4 and 1 John 3:6. Are you seriously going to tell me that as long as we love than it is now ok to lie and steal against our fellow man or if we love God we can now make idols and bow down and worship them, take God's name in vain and break his Sabbath? This is why Jesus says unless we are born again and out righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and the Pharisees we can in no wise enter into the kingdom of Heaven *Matthew 5:20. We can have a form of godliness denying God' power thereof which we are told to turn away from in 2 Timothy 3:5. God's love is expressed through obedience to God's 10 commandments according to the scriptures in all those who have been born again through faith to love and made free to walk in God's Spirit in God's new covenant promise according to Jesus in John 3:3-7; Matthew 22:36-40; 1 John 3:6-9; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12; Galatians 5:16; 1 John 5:2-4.

Hope this is helpful
 
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coffee4u

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Jeremiah sums up what I have been sharing with you very nicely when he says "Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may you also do good, that are accustomed to do evil" (Jeremiah 13:23). As does Jesus when He says he knows us that we to not have the love of God in us in John 5:42 or that it is only those who know they are sick that needs a physician and that he has only come to save sinners in Matthew 9:12-13. Paul in Romans 3:20-23 says there is none righteous no not one and that Jesus has only come to save sinner in which he says I am chief. This is why Jesus says in John 3:3-7 unless we are born again we cannot see the kingdom of Heaven. All of these scriptures agree with what I have been sharing with you. What do you think they mean?

You do not understand our position. If you actually understood where we are coming from you would not be sharing those verses, because we agree with them and you would already know that we agree with them. Or I do, can't speak for everybody, but there are many others here who have been trying to say this to you.

The rules are there for those who don't know how to behave. The law was given so that man could see that he was a sinner in need of a savior. The law also gave man defined paths that he could follow because on his own he had no idea which way was good or bad. God showed him what was good and by failing to keep to that path man was shown that he was a sinner.

Jeremiah -still under the law
John 5 -still under the law
Matthew 9:12-13 -still under the law.
But this is actually a good verse to illustrate my point.
12 On hearing this, Jesus said, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 13 But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”
Jesus came to a sick world in need of a savior.
Then see the next remark in that verse "I desire mercy, not sacrifice." When people follow the laws of the Old Testament as a set of written rules it done out of duty and sacrifice. When they follow love it is mercy.

I gave an example of a child and a sweet before but marriage is a better example since the church is the bride of Christ. Do you want your wife to only do things for you out of duty or from love? What is being done doesn't change but the motivation behind them changes.


Romans 3:20-23
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Following the law will not make anyone righteous. All the law does is make a person aware of sin which brings us back around to needing a savior.
It is because we have all sinned and because we all fall short that we need Jesus.

John 3:3-7
3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again."
Which we agree on.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!

Which is our point. Once we are in Christ we are no longer the old person but a new creation. Because we are now a new creation we no longer need the written law for now the 'law' of love is upon our hearts.


Are you seriously going to tell me that as long as we love than it is now ok to lie and steal against our fellow man

If you are lying and stealing you are not loving.

If we love God we can now make idols and bow down and worship them, take God's name in vain

Matthew 22:37
Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind."

If someone is loving God with all their heart, mind and soul this precludes things such as making idols and taking his name in vein.

If someone is making idols and using the Lord's name in vein then they don't love God.

Can't you see this?

Person A does not make an idol because the law says so, but in his heart he secretly wants one. No one but God can see this. Outwardly he appears to be good but inwardly he isn't really.

Person B does not make an idol because the law says so and he agrees and follows the law because it is good. He assumes person A is the same as himself, a good follower of the law. (he would be wrong)

Person c does not make an idol because God is his God and he has no need of idols or even thinks about them. Not because of a law, but because the very idea is abhorrent to him. It is abhorrent to him because God put the feeling upon his heart. (person C looks to be following the law but actually isn't)

Now unless the three of them sat down and talked honestly they may not realize the difference between themselves.

and break his Sabbath?
Which is what you are really about.
Those of us following love believe every day is a sabbath. Just thinking and fellowship with God. We don't need a day set aside to do this, we simply do.


Hebrews 10:16
"This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds."


The new Covenant is this:
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
But it isn't a written law and it isn't followed like a book of rules. It is felt.
 
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JLB777

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Does anyone in this thread have some scriptures from Jesus or His apostles that instruct the Church how to observe the Sabbath under the New Covenant?



Here were some instructions under the law of Moses —




Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord has said: ‘Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.’ ” So they laid it up till morning, as Moses commanded; and it did not stink, nor were there any worms in it. Then Moses said, “Eat that today, for today is a Sabbath to the Lord; today you will not find it in the field. Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will be none.”
Now it happened that some of the people went out on the seventh day to gather, but they found none. And the Lord said to Moses, “How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws? See! For the Lord has given you the Sabbath; therefore He gives you on the sixth day bread for two days. Let every man remain in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.” So the people rested on the seventh day. Exodus 16:23-30





And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Exodus 31:12-15




Then Moses gathered all the congregation of the children of Israel together, and said to them, “These are the words which the Lord has commanded you to do: Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh day shall be a holy day for you, a Sabbath of rest to the Lord. Whoever does any work on it shall be put to death. You shall kindle no fire throughout your dwellings on the Sabbath day.”Exodus 35:1-3



Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.
Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died. Numbers 15:32-36



And on the Sabbath day two lambs in their first year, without blemish, and two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour as a grain offering, mixed with oil, with its drink offering— this is the burnt offering for every Sabbath, besides the regular burnt offering with its drink offering. Numbers 28:9-10



Is the Church obligated to obey these instructions that were given to the children of Israel under the law of Moses?


After all, these are God’s commandments and those is His word.






JLB
 
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LoveGodsWord

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You do not understand our position. If you actually understood where we are coming from you would not be sharing those verses, because we agree with them and you would already know that we agree with them. Or I do, can't speak for everybody, but there are many others here who have been trying to say this to you.
This does not really make any sense. Why would anyone be trying to tell me something you agree I already know and have always been saying and what I have always believed?
The rules are there for those who don't know how to behave.
And who knows how to behave? *Romans 3:10.
The law was given so that man could see that he was a sinner in need of a savior. The law also gave man defined paths that he could follow because on his own he had no idea which way was good or bad. God showed him what was good and by failing to keep to that path man was shown that he was a sinner.
Summed up already in the scripture I have already been sharing with you here and elsewhere (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; Matthew 9:12-13; Romans 3:10-23 and in the last post)
Jeremiah -still under the law John 5 -still under the law Matthew 9:12-13 -still under the law.
Just adding here that no one is "under the law" according to Romans 3:19-20 unless they stand before God guilty of breaking the law. James shows in James 2:10-11 that if we break anyone of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of breaking all of them God's 4th commandment seventh day Sabbath *Exodus 20:8-11 is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken according to Romans 3:20; and Romans 7:7.

But this is actually a good verse to illustrate my point. 12 On hearing this, Jesus said, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 13 But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.” Jesus came to a sick world in need of a savior. Then see the next remark in that verse "I desire mercy, not sacrifice." When people follow the laws of the Old Testament as a set of written rules it done out of duty and sacrifice. When they follow love it is mercy.
This was the verse I quoted to you to prove my point. All your doing here is agreeing with me. The point I was making is that we cannot know that we are sinners in need of a Savior without God's law (Romans 3:20: Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4). God's law leads us to God's grace *Galatians 3:22-25. God's 4th commandments "seventh day Sabbath (Exodus 20:8-11) is one of God's 10 commandments that gives us the knowledge of what sin is when broken according to the scriptures.
I gave an example of a child and a sweet before but marriage is a better example since the church is the bride of Christ. Do you want your wife to only do things for you out of duty or from love? What is being done doesn't change but the motivation behind them changes.
Indeed but your example was not relevant as I was never talking about following God and keeping His commandments out of duty but out of love Following the law will not make anyone righteous.


All the law does is make a person aware of sin which brings us back around to needing a savior. It is because we have all sinned and because we all fall short that we need Jesus.

Why do you think posting these scriptures are relevant when no one has ever said you do that we receive our righteousness from keeping the law? Romans 3:20 was only post to you showing that through the law we receive a knowledge of what sin is as was Romans 7:7 and it is the knowledge of sin that leads us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith so that we can be born again and made free to walk in God's Spirit *John 3:3-7; 1 John 1:9; Acts of the Apostles 2:38; 1 John 3:6-9; Galatians 5:16.

Therefore breaking God's law is sin and if we are continuing in known unrepentant sin is a sign we do not know God and need to be born again *1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:6-9. This of course includes God's 4th commandment "seventh day Sabbath" *Exodus 20:8-11 which is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken as James in James 2:10-11 says that if we break anyone of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of breaking all of Gods' commandments.
Romans 3:20-23 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God 2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here Which is our point. Once we are in Christ we are no longer the old person but a new creation. Because we are now a new creation we no longer need the written law for now the 'law' of love is upon our hearts.
As shown through the scriptures earlier by Jesus in Matthew 22:36-40; John 14:15: 15:10; Paul in Romans 13:8-10; Romans 3:31; James in James 2:8-12 and John in 1 John 2:3-4, all agree that love is not separated from God's law it is expressed in obedience to God's law.

Even when we add the context of 2 Corinthians 5:15-18 back we see that this new creature is that of someone who is not longer born of the flesh which means the sinful carnal mind or unconverted human nature but those who are born in the Spirit to love.

As posted earlier those who are born again to love do not knowingly break God's law they are obedient to God's law as they have faith in His Word as shown in 1 John 5:2-4. Sin defined in the scriptures as breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments (James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7) and those who knowingly practice sin (James 4:17; Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31) and those who do not knowingly practice sin according to John is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil in 1 John 3:9-10; 1 John 2:3-4. Once again God's "seventh day Sabbath" 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken.

Sunday worship is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many to either knowingly or unknowingly break God's 4th commandment. There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says Sunday is a holy day and we are now commanded to keep it as a holy day of rest. God's people are in every Church according to the scriptures in John 10:16 but the hour is coming according to Jesus and now is that time that the true worshipers will worship God in Spirit and in truth as God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth *John 4:23-24.

God is calling His people wherever they may be out from following man-made teachings and traditions back to the pure Word of God *Revelation 18:1-4. Sunday worship is a teaching and tradition handed down by the mother Church *Revelation 17:5 to that has led many to break God's 4th commandment. Jesus says in Matthew 15:3-9 that if we knowingly follow man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God we are not worshiping. God is calling all who have ears to hear and eyes to see to hear His Voice (the Word) as God's sheep (His people) hear His Voice and follow him.

Those who do not hear and do not follow are not God's sheep according to John 10:26-27. Revelation 14:7 says Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. God's people keep all of Gods' commandments according to Revelation 14:12; 22:14 not some of them according to the scriptures.

LoveGodsWord wrote: Are you seriously going to tell me that as long as we love than it is now ok to lie and steal against our fellow man
Your response here...
If you are lying and stealing you are not loving.
Then you must agree if we love God with all of our heart and soul we will not follow other God's, make idols and worship them, take God's name in vain or break his Sabbath commandments (*Exodus 20:3-11).
Matthew 22:37 Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind." If someone is loving God with all their heart, mind and soul this precludes things such as making idols and taking his name in vein. If someone is making idols and using the Lord's name in vein then they don't love God. Can't you see this?
What do you mean can't I see this. I have been posting this to you from the beginning even in the posts you are quoting from. Love is not separate from Gods' law love is expressed through obedience to Gods' law that is why Jesus says in Matthew 22:40 on these two great commandments of love hang all the law and the prophets. This also includes obedience to God's 4th commandment if we love God as God's 4th commandment is one of Gods' 10 commandments of our duty of love to God.
Person A does not make an idol because the law says so, but in his heart he secretly wants one. No one but God can see this. Outwardly he appears to be good but inwardly he isn't really. Person B does not make an idol because the law says so and he agrees and follows the law because it is good. He assumes person A is the same as himself, a good follower of the law. (he would be wrong)
Person c does not make an idol because God is his God and he has no need of idols or even thinks about them. Not because of a law, but because the very idea is abhorrent to him. It is abhorrent to him because God put the feeling upon his heart. (person C looks to be following the law but actually isn't) Now unless the three of them sat down and talked honestly they may not realize the difference between themselves.
There is no knowledge of what sin is without Gods law (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4) and if we break anyone of them according to the scriptures we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11. Of course this includes Gods' 4th commandment seventh day Sabbath which is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken according to James in James 2:10-11.
Those of us following love believe every day is a sabbath. Just thinking and fellowship with God. We don't need a day set aside to do this, we simply do.
God's 4th commandment "seventh day Sabbath of the 10 commandments is not about not worshiping God everyday. We should all worship God everyday. God's 4th commandment is God's commandment to do no work on the "seventh day" of the week and to set apart the "seventh day" of the week as a holy day of rest because God "blessed" and "set apart" the "seventh day" as a holy day of rest as a "memorial" of creation and a celebration of God as the creator of Heaven and earth. This is one of God's 10 commandments that show our duty of love to God and also one of God's 10 commandments according to the scriptures that give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; James 2:10-11.

Hebrews 10:16"This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds." The new Covenant is this 37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” But it isn't a written law and it isn't followed like a book of rules. It is felt.
True but the key here is in Matthew 22:40 where where Jesus after quoting from the two great commandments being to love God and our fellow man where he is quoting from the old testament scriptures in Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18 stated that love is not separate from Gods' law it is expressed through obedience to God's law and as Paul says in Romans 13:8-10 fulfills Gods' law as loving God with all of our heart and soul and our neighbor as our-self are simply a summary of how love is expressed in obedience to God's law (10 commandments). This is why elsewhere the same covenant that I have agreed to here in Matthew 22:36-40 is stated slightly differently by Paul in Hebrews 8:10-12 where it is written;

"For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, said the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more."

Paul is quoting from Jeremiah 31:31-34 see also Ezekiel 36:24-27.

God's love is not separate from Gods' law it is how God's love is expressed. Jesus says "If you love me keep my commandments. This includes Gods' 4th commandment which is our duty of love to God.

Hope this is helpful.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Does anyone in this thread have some scriptures from Jesus or His apostles that instruct the Church how to observe the Sabbath under the New Covenant?



Here were some instructions under the law of Moses —




Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord has said: ‘Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.’ ” So they laid it up till morning, as Moses commanded; and it did not stink, nor were there any worms in it. Then Moses said, “Eat that today, for today is a Sabbath to the Lord; today you will not find it in the field. Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will be none.”
Now it happened that some of the people went out on the seventh day to gather, but they found none. And the Lord said to Moses, “How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws? See! For the Lord has given you the Sabbath; therefore He gives you on the sixth day bread for two days. Let every man remain in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.” So the people rested on the seventh day. Exodus 16:23-30





And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Exodus 31:12-15




Then Moses gathered all the congregation of the children of Israel together, and said to them, “These are the words which the Lord has commanded you to do: Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh day shall be a holy day for you, a Sabbath of rest to the Lord. Whoever does any work on it shall be put to death. You shall kindle no fire throughout your dwellings on the Sabbath day.”Exodus 35:1-3



Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.
Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died. Numbers 15:32-36



And on the Sabbath day two lambs in their first year, without blemish, and two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour as a grain offering, mixed with oil, with its drink offering— this is the burnt offering for every Sabbath, besides the regular burnt offering with its drink offering. Numbers 28:9-10



Is the Church obligated to obey these instructions that were given to the children of Israel under the law of Moses?


After all, these are God’s commandments and those is His word.






JLB

Yes dear friend. Try reading the OP. Everyone of God's 10 commandments are repeated in the new covenant. Their role is to give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing); sin and righteousness (the same) *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and to lead us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith *Galatians 3:22-25.

HEBREWS 4:9 THEREFORE IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH

Jesus and all of the Apostles kept the Sabbath who are our examples that we follow (scriptures here)

We are in the new covenant now based on better promises *Hebrews 8:1-5 not the old covenant. The old covenant laws for the remission of sins and the penalty of sin was never restricted to only God's 4th commandment but to every day of the week and to everyone of God's 10 commandments. This was to teach Gods' people that the wages of sin is death *Romans 6:23. Today in the new covenant we no longer provide the death penalty for sin God says Vengeance is mine and will be given at the second coming *Romans 12:19; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9.

Your welcome. :)
 
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JLB777

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Yes dear friend. Try reading the OP. Everyone of God's 10 commandments are repeated in the new covenant. Their role is to give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing); sin and righteousness (the same) *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and to lead us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith *Galatians 3:22-25.

HEBREWS 4:9 THEREFORE IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH


First of all my question was —

  • Does anyone in this thread have some scriptures from Jesus or His apostles that instruct the Church how to observe the Sabbath under the New Covenant?


Secondly, Hebrews 4:9 does not say ... THEREFORE IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH

I do understand why you blatantly misquote the scriptures though.


For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His. Hebrews 4:8-10


Joshua did not give them rest, yet they kept the Sabbath under the law of Moses.


The rest being referred to here in Hebrews 4:9 is rest from war.



Finally, I gave examples of instructions as to how the children of Israel were to observe the Sabbath, and asked this question.

Is the Church obligated to obey these instructions that were given to the children of Israel under the law of Moses?


Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord has said: ‘Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.’ ” So they laid it up till morning, as Moses commanded; and it did not stink, nor were there any worms in it. Then Moses said, “Eat that today, for today is a Sabbath to the Lord; today you will not find it in the field. Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will be none.”
Now it happened that some of the people went out on the seventh day to gather, but they found none. And the Lord said to Moses, “How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws? See! For the Lord has given you the Sabbath; therefore He gives you on the sixth day bread for two days. Let every man remain in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.” So the people rested on the seventh day. Exodus 16:23-30





And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Exodus 31:12-15




Then Moses gathered all the congregation of the children of Israel together, and said to them, “These are the words which the Lord has commanded you to do: Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh day shall be a holy day for you, a Sabbath of rest to the Lord. Whoever does any work on it shall be put to death. You shall kindle no fire throughout your dwellings on the Sabbath day.”Exodus 35:1-3



Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.
Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died. Numbers 15:32-36



And on the Sabbath day two lambs in their first year, without blemish, and two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour as a grain offering, mixed with oil, with its drink offering— this is the burnt offering for every Sabbath, besides the regular burnt offering with its drink offering. Numbers 28:9-10




After all, these are God’s commandments and those is His word.



If you don’t know the answer or have any scriptures from Jesus or His apostles that gives us clear instructions as to HOW the Church is to observe the Sabbath under the New Covenant, it’s ok you don’t have to answer with some man made answer.


We want what Jesus said we are to do according to His instructions, unless you believe we are to do what they did under the law of Moses.






JLB
 
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First of all my question was —

  • Does anyone in this thread have some scriptures from Jesus or His apostles that instruct the Church how to observe the Sabbath under the New Covenant?


Secondly, Hebrews 4:9 does not say ... THEREFORE IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH

I do understand why you blatantly misquote the scriptures though.


For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His. Hebrews 4:8-10


Joshua did not give them rest, yet they kept the Sabbath under the law of Moses.


The rest being referred to here in Hebrews 4:9 is rest from war.



Finally, I gave examples of instructions as to how the children of Israel were to observe the Sabbath, and asked this question.

Is the Church obligated to obey these instructions that were given to the children of Israel under the law of Moses?


Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord has said: ‘Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.’ ” So they laid it up till morning, as Moses commanded; and it did not stink, nor were there any worms in it. Then Moses said, “Eat that today, for today is a Sabbath to the Lord; today you will not find it in the field. Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will be none.”
Now it happened that some of the people went out on the seventh day to gather, but they found none. And the Lord said to Moses, “How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws? See! For the Lord has given you the Sabbath; therefore He gives you on the sixth day bread for two days. Let every man remain in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.” So the people rested on the seventh day. Exodus 16:23-30





And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Exodus 31:12-15




Then Moses gathered all the congregation of the children of Israel together, and said to them, “These are the words which the Lord has commanded you to do: Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh day shall be a holy day for you, a Sabbath of rest to the Lord. Whoever does any work on it shall be put to death. You shall kindle no fire throughout your dwellings on the Sabbath day.”Exodus 35:1-3



Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.
Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died. Numbers 15:32-36



And on the Sabbath day two lambs in their first year, without blemish, and two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour as a grain offering, mixed with oil, with its drink offering— this is the burnt offering for every Sabbath, besides the regular burnt offering with its drink offering. Numbers 28:9-10




After all, these are God’s commandments and those is His word.



If you don’t know the answer or have any scriptures from Jesus or His apostles that gives us clear instructions as to HOW the Church is to observe the Sabbath under the New Covenant, it’s ok you don’t have to answer with some man made answer.


We want what Jesus said we are to do according to His instructions, unless you believe we are to do what they did under the law of Moses.






JLB

And first of all your question was answered in the very post and scriptures you are part quoting from. Perhaps you did not like the answers. What was not answered and why are you quoting old covenant scripture when we are in the new covenant?

From the link in the last post....

What did Jesus and the Apostles teach about the Sabbath in the New Testament?

1. It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56)
2. Jesus made the Sabbath for all mankind (Hebrews 1:2; John 1:1-3; 14; Ephesians 3:9; Colossians 1:16-17; Mark 2:27)
3. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28)
4. If you do not believe and follow God you cannot enter His Sabbath rest (Hebrews 4)
5. It is one of God’s 10 commandments we break it we are guilty or breaking all (James 2:8-12)
6. Breaking it is sin (1 John 3:4)
7. God’s true followers keep it Holy as God commanded (Rev 14:12; Rev 22:14; Eze 20:20)
8. Jesus is our example and he kept the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matt 16:24; 1 Cor 11:1; Eph 5:1-21; Pet 2:20-22)
9. The Apostle kept the Sabbath (Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Rev 1:10)What did Jesus and the Apostles teach about the Sabbath in the New Testament?

.................

HEBREWS 4:9 THEREFORE IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH

Your welcome :)
 
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