Born again (born from above)

2BeholdHisGlory said:

It was this,

"So you cannot use his revelations to understand Christ's ministry during the 4 gospels. Don't anticipate revelation"

I was laughing at not the scriptures

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Yes Paul's revelations came after the ascended Christ himself saved him and revealed to him the gospel of the uncircumcision (Galatians 1:12, Galatians 2:7).

Christ's earthly ministry was to the circumcised only, as he stated in Matthew 15:24.

Thus, you cannot use verses like what you did in 1Cr 12:13 and Col 3:11 to claim that Christ was also speaking to Gentiles in the 4 gospels.

That is what "anticipating revelation" means.

Guojing said:

Paul was only saved after the nation Israel has fallen at Acts 7, they stoned Stephen remember?

Because of the fall of the nation Israel, salvation has now come to the gentiles (Romans 11:11)

So you cannot use his revelations to understand Christ's ministry during the 4 gospels. Don't anticipate revelation

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Jesus quote this to them but it is also quoted by Paul a second time here in Acts 28:26

Acts 28:26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: (Mat 13:14, & Isaiah 6:9)

Acts 28:27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand withtheir heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Acts 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

But back in Isaiah 6:9 (after the above verse, which is a quote from the same quoted to them by Paul) is followed by what he said about the Gentiles and the salvation of God, and this is a verse (below) falls under that one (back in Isaiah)

Isaiah 6:11 Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered, Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate,

Isaiah 6:12 And the LORD have removed men far away, and there be a great forsaking in the midst of the land.

Isaiah 6:13 But yet in it shall be a tenth, and it shall return, and shall be eaten: as a teil tree, and as an oak, whose substance is in them, when they cast their leaves: so the holy seed shall be the substance thereof.

So he seems to adress them later that what is posed and declares when the salvation of God is sent to the Gentiles there.

Guojing said:

Yes Paul's revelations came after the ascended Christ himself saved him and revealed to him the gospel of the uncircumcision (Galatians 1:12, Galatians 2:7).

Christ's earthly ministry was to the circumcised only, as he stated in Matthew 15:24.

Thus, you cannot use verses like what you did in 1Cr 12:13 and Col 3:11 to claim that Christ was also speaking to Gentiles in the 4 gospels.

That is what "anticipating revelation" means.

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What am I claiming?? What??

2BeholdHisGlory said:

Jesus quote this to them but it is also quoted by Paul a second time here in Acts 28:26

Acts 28:26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: (Mat 13:14, & Isaiah 6:9)

Acts 28:27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand withtheir heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Acts 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

But back in Isaiah 6:9 (after the above verse, which is a quote from the same quoted to them by Paul) is followed by what he said about the Gentiles and the salvation of God, and this is a verse (below) falls under that one (back in Isaiah)

Isaiah 6:11 Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered, Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate,

Isaiah 6:12 And the LORD have removed men far away, and there be a great forsaking in the midst of the land.

Isaiah 6:13 But yet in it shall be a tenth, and it shall return, and shall be eaten: as a teil tree, and as an oak, whose substance is in them, when they cast their leaves: so the holy seed shall be the substance thereof.

So he seems to adress them later that what is posed and declares when the salvation of God is sent to the Gentiles there.

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Yes, so my point is that, only after the fall of the nation Israel, then salvation is open to the gentiles without the gentiles having to go thru Israel (Romans 11:11)

During the 4 gospels, Israel has not fallen yet. (Matthew 15:24), so Christ was not sent to the gentiles then

Guojing said:

Yes, so my point is that, only after the fall of the nation Israel, then salvation is open to the gentiles without the gentiles having to go thru Israel (Romans 11:11)

During the 4 gospels, Israel has not fallen yet. (Matthew 15:24), so Christ was not sent to the gentiles then

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Who is saying Jesus was sent to the Gentiles?? Provide the quote, the ones you are picking on come from Paul not Jesus

2BeholdHisGlory said:

Who is saying Jesus was sent to the Gentiles?? Provide the quote, the ones you are picking on come from Paul not Jesus

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Oh so you were actually agreeing with my point, when you replied with #14?

Born again (born from above)

Alright then, I must have misunderstood what you wrote in that post. We are in agreement then.

Guojing said:

Oh so you were actually agreeing with my point, when you replied with #14?

Born again (born from above)

Alright then, I must have misunderstood what you wrote in that post. We are in agreement then.

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I quoted that same verse three verses down in that post, you must have missed it. I was showing the weave between his people (the circumcision he was a minister of) and the sheep not of that fold (the uncircumcision) or rather both Jew and Gentile alike. He was going to send his Apostles (who are the ones who quote those verses) since they were part of the remnant at that present time (even as Paul was a minister to the uncircumcision)

this is one of the most Complicated topic's related To Christianity, and because it's so complicated, I'd caution you to do anything except read The Bible. I've been posessed more time's than I like to admit trying to figure this out. Read The Bible until you do.

2BeholdHisGlory said:

I quoted that same verse three verses down in that post, you must have missed it. I was showing the weave between his people (the circumcision he was a minister of) and the sheep not of that fold (the uncircumcision) or rather both Jew and Gentile alike. He was going to send his Apostles (who are the ones who quote those verses) since they were part of the remnant at that present time (even as Paul was a minister to the uncircumcision)

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The sheep not of this fold, does not mean the uncircumcised. It was referring to the diaspora of Israel there were living outside Jerusalem, which was the group Paul met in Acts 28.

Jesus cannot be referring to gentiles in that passage during his earthly ministry, he would have contradicted himself in Matthew 15:24 and Matthew 10:5.

Further evidence of that is this: Paul never called us in the Body of Christ as "sheep", not even once, in Romans to Philemon.

Guojing said:

The sheep not of this fold, does not mean the uncircumcised. It was referring to the diaspora of Israel there were living outside Jerusalem, which was the group Paul met in Acts 28.

Jesus cannot be referring to gentiles in that passage during his earthly ministry, he would have contradicted himself in Matthew 15:24 and Matthew 10:5.

Further evidence of that is this: Paul never called us in the Body of Christ as "sheep", not even once, in Romans to Philemon.

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Try flock, he did not contradict himself and Mat 10:5 comes before Mat 15:24 and he also told them to preach the gospel to all nations

I never heard him call Abraham a sheep either, and he was not a Jew but a Gentile

2BeholdHisGlory said:

Try flock, he did not contradict himself and Mat 10:5 comes before Mat 15:24 and he also told them to preach the gospel to all nations

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What does Matt 10:5 coming before Matt 15:24 change anything from what I said?

Both verses indicate that Jesus was not referring to gentiles during his earthly ministry.

Guojing said:

What does Matt 10:5 coming before Matt 15:24 change anything from what I said?

Both verses indicate that Jesus was not referring to gentiles during his earthly ministry.

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He had other sheep not of that fold

He also said,

Acts 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me

But then he also said,

Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

2BeholdHisGlory said:

It does say he shall save his people from their sins (being a minister of the circumcision)

Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

He did say he had other sheep not of that fold

John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

But he was sent unto the lost sheep of the house of Isreal

Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

"not our sins only" but the sins of whole world

1John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

To the Gentiles who were far off

Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Both have access by one Spirit

Ephes 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Even us, not of Jews only but also of the Gentiles

Romans 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Gentiles are to rejoice with his people, the remnant of those who beleived in Christ

Romans 15:10 And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people.

1Cr 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Col 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision,
Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

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Exactly. Jesus didn’t offer the kingdom to the Jews and another plan to the gentiles. All are one in Christ Jesus, and gentile believers enter the kingdom, too.

Colossians 1:13, Acts 14:22, and Paul, the apostle to the gentiles, preached the kingdom in Acts 28:31.

Being born again of the Holy Spirit is for all believers in Jesus, Jew or gentile.

chad kincham said:

Exactly. Jesus didn’t offer the kingdom to the Jews and another plan to the gentiles. All are one in Christ Jesus, and gentile believers enter the kingdom, too.

Colossians 1:13, Acts 14:22, and Paul, the apostle to the gentiles, preached the kingdom in Acts 28:31.

Being born again of the Holy Spirit is for all believers in Jesus, Jew or gentile.

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Which is what the scriptures I posted were saying, One shepherd (Jesus Christ) and one fold whether Jew or Greek because there is no more Jew and Gentile in Jesus Christ. If you are Christ's you are Abraham's seed. His promise was to Abraham and his seed (he saith not seeds, as of many) but as of one Christ. One Spirit to drink, one fold.

2BeholdHisGlory said:

He had other sheep not of that fold

He also said,

Acts 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me

But then he also said,

Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

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Yes the order was Israel is to be saved first, before the gentiles can be reached. (Zechariah 8:23)

But Israel never did get saved, they rejected Christ when they killed Stephen, and they fell after that, as I stated in that order I gave you earlier.

2BeholdHisGlory said:

Which is what the scriptures I posted were saying, One shepherd (Jesus Christ) and one fold whether Jew or Greek because there is no more Jew and Gentile in Jesus Christ. If you are Christ's you are Abraham's seed. His promise was to Abraham and his seed (he saith not seeds, as of many) but as of one Christ. One Spirit to drink, one fold.

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Again, you cannot take the revelation given to Paul, after the fall of Israel, to understand Jesus's ministry in the 4 gospels, to Israel.

Guojing said:

Yes the order was Israel is to be saved first, before the gentiles can be reached. (Zechariah 8:23)

But Israel never did get saved, they rejected Christ when they killed Stephen, and they fell after that, as I stated in that order I gave you earlier.

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Yeah I dont know anyone who believes that doesnt believe Jesus preached in Isreal, or that there was not a remnant out of Isreal whic was saved and out of the same went to the Gentiles.

Guojing said:

Again, you cannot take the revelation given to Paul, after the fall of Israel, to understand Jesus's ministry in the 4 gospels, to Israel.

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What??

Its been real, I need an aspirin, good night