Removing the laws of God- what does it really mean?

imge said:

No, changing God's day of worship from the seventh day, that cannot be changed is much different than Jesus clarifying to the doubting Pharisees how to keep Sabbath and what is lawful on Sabbath. Those are monumental differences. The apostles never changed God's Sabbath either, that was all done way after the New Testament was written. If they did have the authority to change it there would have been scripture in the NT, but there is none.

There is no scripture authority that changed God's Sabbath from the seventh day to the first day. This is a tradition of man that Jesus warned us about. Scripture given multiple times but I can add it again if needed when I have more time.

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I wasn't asking if the apostles had the authority to change the commandment, I was asking about if they had the authority to clarify the commandment.

imge said:

Hi Nathan,

Thanks for the questions. Here is the scripture for your refence:

Hebrews 4: 11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.


If you look at Ezekiel 20:20 hallow My Sabbaths, and they will be a sign between Me and you, that you may know that I am the Lord your God.’

This is God telling to keep His Sabbath (4th commandment-hallow- make holy) and the very next verse says:

Ezekiel 20:21 “Notwithstanding, the children rebelled against Me; they did not walk in My statutes, and were not careful to observe My judgments, ‘which, if a man does, he shall live by them’; but they profaned My Sabbaths. Then I said I would pour out My fury on them and fulfill My anger against them in the wilderness.

So we are supposed hallow God's Sabbath and because they were profaning God's Sabbath, they did not enter into His rest in Hebrews which was written to Hebrews and example to all of us.

I hope this helps.

God bless

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Right, so once we enter that rest then there is no work.

Just as Israel was commanded to work for six days, but the seventh there was no work.

So those who have entered the rest, do not work.

[Heb 4:9-10 ESV] So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, for whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.

imge said:

God's laws are written in our hearts and minds in the New Covenant, not just SDA's. We obey God's laws not to be saved, but because of our faith and He asked us to be obedient and we do so because of our changed heart and our love for Him. His laws didn't go away, they have different promises now.

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So this caught my eye, could you explain what you are saying?

What are the old promises and what are the new ones?

Do the new ones replace the old, as in the old ones are no more?

imge said:

God's laws are written in our hearts and minds in the New Covenant, not just SDA's. We obey God's laws not to be saved, but because of our faith and He asked us to be obedient and we do so because of our changed heart and our love for Him. His laws didn't go away, they have different promises now.

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God's laws are not relevant in the New Covenant. We have been given the Holy Spirit to be our guide, making the written laws obsolete.

I often use the example of the speed limit. If you are driving according to the Spirit then it is natural to go the appropriate speed for safety; if you are driving according to the posted speed limit -- the law -- then you are always looking in the mirror for the police.

imge said:

No, the laws did not go away:

Jeremiah 31:33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

God does not make our choices for us! We still have to.

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If you want to live in the Old Covenant then you can't live in the New Covenant. What don't you understand about the difference between the written, external laws of the Old Covenant and the spiritual guidance by the Holy Spirit?

The very quote from Jeremiah proves my point.

Your signature reads, "The only scripture both spoken and written by the hand of God in the entire Bible is The Ten commandments, now written in our heart and mind in the New Covenant. God asked us to obey all Ten commandments, not just nine. God bless". Nowhere does it says that the Ten Commandments of the Old Covenant are now written in our heart and mind.

imge said:

God does not force anything on us, we have free will. He loves us so much, each of us, but wants us to believe, have faith, and obey because of our choice to.

Psalm 40:8
I delight to do Your will, O my God,
And Your law is within my heart.”

Romans 12:2
2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

Matthew 22:37
Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’

Mathew 6:21
For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

Proverbs 7:1-3
My son, keep my words,
And treasure my commands within you.
2 Keep my commands and live,
And my law as the apple of your eye.
3 Bind them on your fingers;
Write them on the tablet of your heart.

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I'm not talking about God forcing us to do something.

When we are born again, I assume that's when God writes his law in our hearts. I think it's strange then, that the vast majority of Christians would be unaware of something written in their hearts.

But yes, we have the daily choice of whether to live according to that law or not.

pescador said:

If you want to live in the Old Covenant then you can't live in the New Covenant. What don't you understand about the difference between the written, external laws of the Old Covenant and the spiritual guidance by the Holy Spirit?

The very quote from Jeremiah proves my point.

Your signature reads, "The only scripture both spoken and written by the hand of God in the entire Bible is The Ten commandments, now written in our heart and mind in the New Covenant. God asked us to obey all Ten commandments, not just nine. God bless". Nowhere does it says that the Ten Commandments of the Old Covenant are now written in our heart and mind.

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To your point;

[Jer 31:31-34 ESV] "Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the LORD. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."

The New Covenant is not the same as the old. The Old Covenant, by its nature, required someone to teach what it meant because of its content.

The New Covenant, not like the Old, does not require someone to teach what it means - those who know His law, who have it on their heart, do not need to teach another what it means.

There are a lot of denominations that 'teach' what could be called non-obsolete laws. Whereas those who know God do not need others to teach them about Him.

This means, quite simply, something is wrong if someone is teaching another person about the laws of God.

Nathan@work said:

To your point;

[Jer 31:31-34 ESV] "Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the LORD. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."

The New Covenant is not the same as the old. The Old Covenant, by its nature, required someone to teach what it meant because of its content.

The New Covenant, not like the Old, does not require someone to teach what it means - those who know His law, who have it on their heart, do not need to teach another what it means.

There are a lot of denominations that 'teach' what could be called non-obsolete laws. Whereas those who know God do not need others to teach them about Him.

This means, quite simply, something is wrong if someone is teaching another person about the laws of God.

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Just so we can all be clear on what "Covenant" Jeremiah is speaking of, it is the one "they broke".

Deuteronomy 5 and 6

Otherwise known as "The Ten Commandments" (which, in reality, just means ten words - which, when broken down, constitute the whole law that Moses taught)

imge said:

Clarifying based on the way God wrote His laws and Jesus practiced, sure. Changing God's laws, no.

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Cool!
How about the New testament writers who may or may not be apostles, like whoever wrote Hebrews or Revelation?

Do they have the authority to clarify the commandment?

pescador said:

If you want to live in the Old Covenant then you can't live in the New Covenant. What don't you understand about the difference between the written, external laws of the Old Covenant and the spiritual guidance by the Holy Spirit?

The very quote from Jeremiah proves my point.

Your signature reads, "The only scripture both spoken and written by the hand of God in the entire Bible is The Ten commandments, now written in our heart and mind in the New Covenant. God asked us to obey all Ten commandments, not just nine. God bless". Nowhere does it says that the Ten Commandments of the Old Covenant are now written in our heart and mind.

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Nathan@work said:

To your point;

[Jer 31:31-34 ESV] "Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the LORD. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."

The New Covenant is not the same as the old. The Old Covenant, by its nature, required someone to teach what it meant because of its content.

The New Covenant, not like the Old, does not require someone to teach what it means - those who know His law, who have it on their heart, do not need to teach another what it means.

There are a lot of denominations that 'teach' what could be called non-obsolete laws. Whereas those who know God do not need others to teach them about Him.

This means, quite simply, something is wrong if someone is teaching another person about the laws of God.

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I believe I've had the same thought expressed in these posts.

Something is wrong with the idea of people needing to be taught what is written in their hearts.

Leaf473 said:

I believe I've had the same thought expressed in these posts.

Something is wrong with the idea of people needing to be taught what is written in their hearts.

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I was picking up on that also.

Sad thing is this is what Adam and Eve were dealt with. They knew what was right, but someone else thought he could teach them the ‘truth’ of it - deceivingly of course.

He also tempted Jesus in the same way.

I think it should give a person pause when someone else is trying to teach you what Gods laws are and what they mean.

Leaf473 said:

I believe I've had the same thought expressed in these posts. Something is wrong with the idea of people needing to be taught what is written in their hearts.

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WHAT IS THE OLD COVENANT AND WHAT IS THE NEW?

I think many people do not understand what the old covenant actually is. They think it was only the 10 commandments. While the 10 commandments were included the old covenant according to the scriptures *Exodus 34:28; Deuteronomy 4:13 it was only a part of the old covenant designed to give God's people a knowledge of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing). The old covenant also included all the "shadow laws" for remission of sins (Levitical Priesthood; laws for remission of sins through animal sacrifices and sin offerings, the ceremonial laws for the earthly sanctuary, annual Feasts, circumcision etc) and all the other laws written by Moses in the book of the covenant *Exodus 24:7.

It is these "shadow laws" from the Mosaic book of the covenant that have been changed based on better promises *Hebrews 8:1-6 according to Gods' Word in Hebrews not God's 10 commandments. So in the new covenant we no longer follow the old covenant "shadow laws" for remission of sins. Jesus today is our great High Priest *Hebrews 7:1-25 ministering on our behalf in the Heavenly Sanctuary that the Lord pitched and not man of which the earthly was just a copy *Hebrews 8:2-5, Jesus of course representing God's true sacrifice for the sins of the world once and for all *John 1:29; 36; Hebrews 10:10.

It is the "shadow laws" for remission of sins from the Mosaic book of the covenant that are now fulfilled in the new covenant based on better promises *Hebrews 8:1-6; Hebrews 9:1-12; Hebrews 10:1-17 in the body of Christ *Colossians 2:17. According to the scriptures both God's 10 commandments as well as the Mosaic BOOK of the covenant were kept in the Ark of the covenant. God's 10 commandment were placed inside the Ark of the covenant underneath the mercy seat *Exodus 25:16-17; Deuteronomy 10:1-5 while the book of the covenant *Exodus 24:7 was placed in the side of the Ark *Deuteronomy 31:24-26.

So the full story here is that both God's 10 commandments as well as the Mosaic book of the law (Exodus 24:7; Deuteronomy 28:61; 29:21; 30:10; 31:24-26; Josiah 1:8; 8:31-34; 23:6; 24:26; 2 Kings 14:6; 22:8-11; 23:24; 2 Chronicles 17:9; 25:4; 34:14-15; Nehemiah 8:1-8;18; 9:3; Galatians 3:10; Hebrews 9:19; Hebrews 10:7 etc) collectively make up the old covenant not just God's 10 commandments.

It is the old covenant "shadow laws" for the remission of sins that pointed to Jesus and God's plan of salvation in the new covenant based on better promises *Hebrews 8:1-6. Hebrews 10:1-17; Psalms 40:7, that are fulfilled and continued in Christ not God's 10 commandments.

The "shadow laws are those laws for the remission of sins that are fulfilled and continued in the body of Christ *Colossians 2:17 in the new covenant as it is also written "Then said I, See, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me , Then said I, See, I come in the volume of the book it is written of me, to do your will, O God * Hebrews 10:7 from Psalms 40:7. It is the volume of the book that pointed to Jesus that is fulfilled in the new covenant based on better promises not God's 10 commandments which are continued in the new covenant and according to the scriptures give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken and righteousness when obeyed *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172 (more scripture support here and here).

So to say we know what sin is without having Gods' 10 commandments is not biblical because the scriptures teach us that it is only by the law we have a knowledge of what sin is according to Paul in Romans 3:20 and Romans 7:7 which agrees with John in 1 John 3:4 and James in James 2:10-11.

It is the new ministration of the Spirit of God working through those who believe God's Word with Jesus as ministering on our behalf in the Heavenly Sanctuary that God promises to change our hearts to love that fulfills God's new covenant promise of salvation from sins to those who believe and follow Gods' Word according to Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:23-27 that Paul talks about in Hebrews 8:10-12 and Hebrews 10:1-22.

We need to be born again according to Jesus to walk in God's Spirit of love *John 3:3-7; Matthew 22:36-40; Galatians 5:16 because those who have been born again into God's new covenant promise do not knowingly practice sin (breaking God's commandments) according to John in 1 John 3:6-9 and those who do have not seen or know God according to 1 John 2:3-4. No one loves God by breaking His commandments as love is expressed through obedience to God's law according to Jesus in Matthew 22:36-40, Paul in Romans 13:8-10; James in James 2:8-12 and John in 1 John 5:2-3 as we have faith in God's Word *1 John 5:4; Romans 3:31.

Hope this is helpful.