The Death and True Resurrection of Jesus.

Bro.T

Bible Christian
Supporter
Aug 17, 2008
2,405
200
U.S.
✟149,668.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
How many times do we have to keep telling you something?!?!?!?!?! You keep ignoring the timeline the eyewitnesses gave on the road to Emmaus...ignoring it is understandable since it proves your timeline wrong...


It has been taught that Jesus died on Good Friday and rose early Sunday morning. As a result of this teaching, man instituted the holiday called Easter. On Easter Sunday you have Christians, world wide paying tribute to a day, in which they believe Jesus, was resurrected. In researching the scriptures one will find that the whole concept of Jesus dying on a Friday and being resurrected on Sunday is contrary to the bible itself. In other words, this tradition directly contradicts the word of God. You keep ignoring the timeline the Prophet
Daniel and Jesus three Days and Three nights, plus the other verses. I much more proof and you ignore all of it.
 
Upvote 0

HARK!

שמע
Christian Forums Staff
Supervisor
Supporter
Oct 29, 2017
54,684
8,037
US
✟1,060,379.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
this goes back to the Invincible ignorance fallacy. the article you posted has extreme bias as noted in its opening statements calling a traditional position synonymous with propagandists. This tells me the entire article is agenda-driven to expose the propagandists but not to determine what the Greek actually says. The author should lay everything on the table and not invoke any conspiracies but simply say regardless of where the chips fall he will look for a truthful and faithful understanding of the text. But that is not what he says and instead exposes a rather unsightly bias. Try finding a less biased position with someone with actual credentials.

Argumentum ab auctoritate? LOL!

First I will summarize a variety of traditionalist arguments. By traditionalist here I mean propagandists3

3. Most of them are correctly called "propagandists" because when they argue about this issue their aim is to obfuscate, misinterpret, malign, and put down rather than to correctly teach or explain, or if wrong, honestly consider the issue in a spirit of scientific investigation. Propagandists are always looking for some small mistake to make too much of, or some under qualified statement to reinterpret and then criticize even though I did not mean it, or they are pontificating their superior credentials and traditional pedigree.

μια των σαββατων - Debunking the gender/case argument
 
Upvote 0

Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old.
Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
28,575
6,063
EST
✟991,946.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
In Leviticus chapter 23rd Ch. Read this chapter you will find the Lord's weekly Sabbath and also the Lord's High and Holy Days, which we call High Holy Sabbaths. Each High Day has a very important meaning. It doesn't matter if you call them High Sabbath or just Holy Days. But the most important thing is to do them. In Leviticus 23:4 These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.
You keep the 1st day of the week, Sunday, which is not in the Bible at all to keep.
Notice, once again the book states these are the feasts of the Lord, and they are Holy gatherings and must be observed in their season.
You seem to have a comprehension disconnect.
Nothing you have posted says that the first and seventh day [1/7] of Unleavened Bread [ULB] are called Sabbaths.
Not one single verse in either testament states that 1/7 ULB is/will be observed as a Sabbath.
If you you can, please show me one verse, two or more would be better, which calls 1/7 ULB a Sabbath please do so.
If you can't, let it go, your only reason in trying to make 1/7 ULB Sabbaths is to try to prop up your assumptions/presuppositions about 2 Sabbaths in passion week.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old.
Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
28,575
6,063
EST
✟991,946.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Argumentum ab auctoritate? LOL!
First I will summarize a variety of traditionalist arguments. By traditionalist here I mean propagandists3
3
. Most of them are correctly called "propagandists" because when they argue about this issue their aim is to obfuscate, misinterpret, malign, and put down rather than to correctly teach or explain, or if wrong, honestly consider the issue in a spirit of scientific investigation. Propagandists are always looking for some small mistake to make too much of, or some under qualified statement to reinterpret and then criticize even though I did not mean it, or they are pontificating their superior credentials and traditional pedigree.

μια των σαββατων - Debunking the gender/case argument
Another source to consider.
Greek has been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox for 2000+ years. Who better than the cadre of scholars who translated the Eastern Orthodox Bible [EOB], know the correct meaning of the Greek words in the NT? All scripture quotes EOB.

Matt 28:1 After the Sabbath, as it began to dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb.[1]
Mark 16:2 Very early on the first day of the week, they arrived at the tomb when the sun had risen[2]
Mark 16:9 Now after Jesus had risen early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom he had cast out seven demons.[3]
Luke 24:1 On the first day of the week, at early dawn, they and some others came to the tomb, bringing the spices which they had prepared.[4]
John 20 1. Now on the first [day] of the week, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb early, while it was still dark. She saw that the stone had been removed from the tomb. 2[5]
Acts 20:7 On the first day of the week, when the disciples were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them. Since he intended to depart on the next day, he continued his speech until midnight.[6]
[1] Cleenewerck, L. (Ed.). (2011). The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible: New Testament (Mt 28:1). Laurent A. Cleenewerck.
EOB can be D/L free at this link. This includes about 200 pages of scholarship.
http://fortsmithorthodox.org/NEW TESTAMENT.pdf
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old.
Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
28,575
6,063
EST
✟991,946.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
It has been taught that Jesus died on Good Friday and rose early Sunday morning. As a result of this teaching, man instituted the holiday called Easter. On Easter Sunday you have Christians, world wide paying tribute to a day, in which they believe Jesus, was resurrected. In researching the scriptures one will find that the whole concept of Jesus dying on a Friday and being resurrected on Sunday is contrary to the bible itself. In other words, this tradition directly contradicts the word of God. You keep ignoring the timeline the Prophet
Daniel and Jesus three Days and Three nights, plus the other verses. I much more proof and you ignore all of it.
Nonsense. trying to use bits and pieces of the OT to distort what the NT clearly states.
Justin [A.D. 110-165.] The First Apology. Chap. LXVII. —
And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday,76 all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability,77 and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given,78 and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.


 
Upvote 0

Yeshua HaDerekh

Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it
May 9, 2013
11,444
3,769
Eretz
✟317,023.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
It has been taught that Jesus died on Good Friday and rose early Sunday morning. As a result of this teaching, man instituted the holiday called Easter. On Easter Sunday you have Christians, world wide paying tribute to a day, in which they believe Jesus, was resurrected. In researching the scriptures one will find that the whole concept of Jesus dying on a Friday and being resurrected on Sunday is contrary to the bible itself. In other words, this tradition directly contradicts the word of God. You keep ignoring the timeline the Prophet
Daniel and Jesus three Days and Three nights, plus the other verses. I much more proof and you ignore all of it.

Well no. Easter is a later invention. We have called it Pascha for close to 2000 yrs. We have never had morning sunrise services. Where did Daniel use 3 days and 3 nights? No, scripture proves your timeline wrong as has been shown to you yet you keep ignoring it...
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: klutedavid
Upvote 0

HARK!

שמע
Christian Forums Staff
Supervisor
Supporter
Oct 29, 2017
54,684
8,037
US
✟1,060,379.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
Greek has been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox for 2000+ years. Who better than the cadre of scholars who translated the Eastern Orthodox Bible [EOB], know the correct meaning of the Greek words in the NT?

Are you aware that languages change over time?

Greek is no exception.


See post 563.
 
Upvote 0

HARK!

שמע
Christian Forums Staff
Supervisor
Supporter
Oct 29, 2017
54,684
8,037
US
✟1,060,379.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
You seem to have a comprehension disconnect.
Nothing you have posted says that the first and seventh day [1/7] of Unleavened Bread [ULB] are called Sabbaths.
Not one single verse in either testament states that 1/7 ULB is/will be observed as a Sabbath.
If you you can, please show me one verse, two or more would be better, which calls 1/7 ULB a Sabbath please do so.
If you can't, let it go, your only reason in trying to make 1/7 ULB Sabbaths is to try to prop up your assumptions/presuppositions about 2 Sabbaths in passion week.

Since Judaism calls the 1st and 7th days of Hag Matzot Shabbats today; do you think that it might be possible that Judaism called them Shabbats in the past?
 
Upvote 0

Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old.
Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
28,575
6,063
EST
✟991,946.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Since Judaism calls the 1st and 7th days of Hag Matzot Shabbats today; do you think that it might be possible that Judaism called them Shabbats in the past?
Have you ever consulted a good English dictionary? They have etymologies, a history of the word; what it originally meant, how it has changed etc. I think the Greek scholars have much the same.
But I would rather trust them than anonymous people on forums like this.
Pesaḥ (Passover; Ex. xii. 1-28), the "Ḥag ha-Maẓẓot" (Ex. xxiii. 14; Lev. xxiii. 4-8), in commemoration of Israel's liberation from Egypt. It lasted seven days, from the fifteenth to the twenty-second of Nisan, the first and the last day being "holy convocations," with abstention from hard labor and the offering of sacrifices (comp. Num. xxviii. 16-25; Deut. xvi. 1-8). On the second day the first-fruit (barley) 'omer was offered (Lev. xxiii. 10). Those that were in a state of impurity or distant from home were bidden to celebrate the festival in the next succeeding month (Num. ix. 1-14). See Passover.​
FESTIVALS - JewishEncyclopedia.com
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

HARK!

שמע
Christian Forums Staff
Supervisor
Supporter
Oct 29, 2017
54,684
8,037
US
✟1,060,379.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
Have you ever consulted a good English dictionary? They have etymologies, a history of the word; what it originally meant, how it has changed etc. I think the Greek scholars have much the same.
But I would rather trust them than anonymous people on forums like this.

See post #571.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old.
Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
28,575
6,063
EST
✟991,946.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
The seven festivals do not necessarily occur on weekly Shabbat (seventh-day Sabbath) and are called by the name miqra ("called assembly") in Hebrew (Lev. 23). They are observed by Jews and a minority of Christians. Two of the shabbath (holy assemblies) occur in spring on the first and last day of the Feast of unleavened bread (Matstsah). One occurs in the summer, this is the Feast of Weeks (Shavuot). And four occur in the fall in the seventh month. Yom Teru'ah (Feast of Trumpets) on the first day of the seventh month; the second is Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement); and two during the feast of Sukkoth (Feast of Tabernacles) on the first and last day. Sometimes the word shabbaton is extended to mean all seven festivals.[4]
High Sabbaths - Wikipedia
You have got to be kidding. You ignore my post quoted from the 1917 Jewish Encyclopedia and your only source is Wiki which is about as reliable as the scribbling on a public facility wall.
Anybody can change, add, delete anything on Wiki without review or control.
Here is a quote from the Jewish Virtual Library. Note 1/7 ULB ae not called Sababths.

Jewish Virtual Library FESTIVALS (Heb. חַג, hag; מוֹעֵד, mo'ed; or יוֹם טוֹב, yom tov).
The commandment concerning the feast of unleavened bread, that "… no manner of work shall be done in them…, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done by you" (Ex. 12:16), was interpreted by the sages to mean that work, for purposes of eating, is allowed on all those festivals (Sif. Num. 147) on which "servile work" is prohibited by the Pentateuch. (In contrast to the Sabbath and the Day of Atonement where it is ordained "ye shall do no work.") The types of work forbidden on the Sabbath but allowed on yom tov for the purpose of eating (Beẓah 5:2) are kneading, baking, slaughtering, skinning, salting, cutting, burning, and carrying (the last two are also permitted for purposes other than eating; Beẓah 12a–b). Hunting, reaping, sheaf binding, threshing, winnowing, selecting, and grinding are forbidden (as to sifting, opinion is divided). Types of work for the indirect preparation of food (מכשירי אוכל נפש) are permitted. The differentiation between the types of work allowed and those forbidden is apparently based on customs prevalent at the time. Except for the work permitted for the sake of food and some other minor allowances made (see Beẓah 5:1), everything forbidden on the Sabbath is also forbidden on the festivals. Moreover, the prohibition of handling *mukẓeh (non-usable) objects is stricter on the festivals than on the Sabbath so that the festival prohibitions should not be taken lightly (Beẓah 2a–b).
Festivals


 
Upvote 0

HARK!

שמע
Christian Forums Staff
Supervisor
Supporter
Oct 29, 2017
54,684
8,037
US
✟1,060,379.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
You have got to be kidding. You ignore my post quoted from the 1917 Jewish Encyclopedia and your only source is Wiki which is about as reliable as the scribbling on a public facility wall.

I didn't ignore your source. I provided more information.

...and no Wiki is not my only source. I didn't need Wiki to know the truth of the matter, as my Jewish friends have called the Moedim High Shabbats, since was a teenager.

This is old news to me.
 
Upvote 0

DamianWarS

Follower of Isa Al Masih
Supporter
May 15, 2008
9,486
3,322
✟858,457.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Argumentum ab auctoritate? LOL!

First I will summarize a variety of traditionalist arguments. By traditionalist here I mean propagandists3

3. Most of them are correctly called "propagandists" because when they argue about this issue their aim is to obfuscate, misinterpret, malign, and put down rather than to correctly teach or explain, or if wrong, honestly consider the issue in a spirit of scientific investigation. Propagandists are always looking for some small mistake to make too much of, or some under qualified statement to reinterpret and then criticize even though I did not mean it, or they are pontificating their superior credentials and traditional pedigree.

μια των σαββατων - Debunking the gender/case argument
Yes that's it. That's the bias. The author has set the goal to discredit those he calls propagandists which is a controversial claim. This is a bias goal as it is a bias claim. He should have left all that out but because he felt the need to drag in all this baggage the entire article is under suspicion of being agenda driven centered around a personal bias. Frankly we need to have higher standards with our sources. The source is untrustworthy because his motivations are corrupt and these are not the sort of things we should entertain.
 
Upvote 0

Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old.
Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
28,575
6,063
EST
✟991,946.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I didn't ignore your source. I provided more information.
...and no Wiki is not my only source. I didn't need Wiki to know the truth of the matter, as my Jewish friends have called the Moedim High Shabbats, since was a teenager.
This is old news to me.
Unless it can be supported from scripture the practices of modern Judaism is largely irrelevant. I quoted two credible Jewish sources no mention of ULB being a Sabbath. But that is important for people who argue for two Sabbaths in passion week.
 
Upvote 0

HARK!

שמע
Christian Forums Staff
Supervisor
Supporter
Oct 29, 2017
54,684
8,037
US
✟1,060,379.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
Unless it can be supported from scripture the practices of modern Judaism is largely irrelevant. I quoted two credible Jewish sources no mention of ULB being a Sabbath. But that is important for people who argue for two Sabbaths in passion week.

(CLV) Jn 19:31
The Jews, then, since it was the preparation, lest the bodies should be remaining on the cross on the sabbath (for it was the great day, that sabbath), ask Pilate that they might be fracturing their legs, and they may be taken away.

everything forbidden on the Sabbath is also forbidden on the festivals.

Do you understand what the word shabbat means?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

HARK!

שמע
Christian Forums Staff
Supervisor
Supporter
Oct 29, 2017
54,684
8,037
US
✟1,060,379.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
Our services are still in koine Greek. They are not in modern Greek.

Do you keep a copy of the dictionary used by the authors of the Brit Chadasha at your place of worship?

The reconsideration on the historical and linguistic importance of Koine Greek began only in the early 19th century, where renowned scholars conducted a series of studies on the evolution of Koine throughout the entire Hellenistic period and Roman Empire.

Koine Greek - Wikipedia
 
Upvote 0

Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old.
Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
28,575
6,063
EST
✟991,946.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
(CLV) Jn 19:31
The Jews, then, since it was the preparation, lest the bodies should be remaining on the cross on the sabbath (for it was the great day, that sabbath), ask Pilate that they might be fracturing their legs, and they may be taken away.

Your point? The word translated "preparation" is "parasceue" which means "preparation" but at the time of Christ to the present day that is the name of the day we call Friday. There was only one parasceue in passion week, the day before the weekly Sabbath and only one Sabbath.

Do you understand what the word shabbat means?
I studied both Hebrew and Greek at the graduate level almost 4 decades ago. Of course I know what "Shabbat" means. The Gipper was president.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

HARK!

שמע
Christian Forums Staff
Supervisor
Supporter
Oct 29, 2017
54,684
8,037
US
✟1,060,379.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
Your point? The word translated "preparation" is "parasceue" which means "preparation" but at the time of Christ to the present day that is the name of the day we call Friday. There was only one parasceue in passion week, the day before the weekly Sabbath and only one Sabbath.

Preparing for Passover

I studied both Hebrew and Greek at the graduate level almost 4 decades ago. Of course I know what "Shabbat" means. The Gipper was president.

What does it mean?
 
Upvote 0