Do Creationists Believe in Talking Snakes?

BNR32FAN · Mar 30, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
I would say that Satan did not merely change form, but he actually possessed an actual real serpent. For the serpent is punished by God with a curse like description that we can see in real serpents today. The serpent is listed among the other cattle and the beasts. If this was merely Satan appearing to be a serpent, then why is God punishing serpents?

Im not certain that God punished all serpents just like I don’t believe God punished all mankind for Adam’s sin. I believe that was a metaphor of satan’s punishment that he would be forever fallen and man striking his head refers to Christ striking his head before throwing him into eternal hell fire.

TedT · Mar 30, 2021

Religiot said:
To pretend that the snake's tongue is not constantly licking up dust, is to deny what your eyes can plainly see, and what is scientifically observed; in other words, it is blindness, and wilful in this case.

To pretend that eating is the same meaning as to accidentally get your tongue dusty from smelling it with a special organ is fruitless and misleading.

The word in the curse on the serpent is tokal, to eat. Tasting or accidently swallowing dust from sniffing with the tongue is not eating. Snakes are carnivores who eat living things, not dust. Therefore I see this word as a metaphor for the humiliation of Satan being forced to reside here in the earth in Tartarus, your opinion of my scientific failings notwithstanding.

Bible Highlighter · Mar 30, 2021

BNR32FAN said:
Im not certain that God punished all serpents just like I don’t believe God punished all mankind for Adam’s sin. I believe that was a metaphor of satan’s punishment that he would be forever fallen and man striking his head refers to Christ striking his head before throwing him into eternal hell fire.

I will have to agree to disagree, my brother.

Blessings be unto you in the Lord today.

GraceBro · Mar 30, 2021

Evolutionists believe in fish with feet, so....

Bible Highlighter · Mar 30, 2021

GraceBro said:
Evolutionists believe in fish with feet, so....

I am no Evolutionist by any means, but there are fish with feet that exist in our real world today.

Dkh587 · Mar 30, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
I believe Satan possessed or influenced the serpent, but the serpent is not a code word for Satan (with no actual real serpent present).

In fact, the idea that serpent is a code word for Satan (with no real serpent present) does not add up with what we read in the Bible. It would be one thing for Scripture to describe the word serpent as a code word for Satan (with no real serpent present), but it would be another thing altogether to keep up the illusion of this kind of metaphor by God telling us the serpent (Satan) to crawl upon his belly and to eat dust. This is what a snake does today. In addition, Scripture usually has another testimony. If crawling upon his belly and eating dust have some other kinds of spiritual meanings, we should see that in the Bible clearly associated with the devil. But in reality: We learn that a serpent and dust eating is simply referring to a regular animal and not the devil in another place in Scripture.

For Micah 7:17 says,
“They shall lick the dust like a serpent, they shall move out of their holes like worms of the earth: they shall be afraid of the LORD our God, and shall fear because of thee.”

Furthermore, Genesis 3:1 says,

“Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made.” (Genesis 3:1).

This means that the serpent here is a created animal here. God says that the serpent was more subtil than any BEAST OF THE FIELD which the Lord God had made. Satan (a fallen angel) is NOT among the beasts of the field which the Lord God had made in the beginning.

Again, Scripture stresses again this is a literal animal in that it places it among the other animals in His creation.

For Genesis 3:14 says,
“And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field;”

For God says that the serpent is cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field. So this surely cannot be a code word for Satan (with no real serpent present) because it lists the serpent in being among the cattle and every beast of the field. If we were to go back to Genesis 1, and look up the day God created the beasts of the field, there is no mention of how the angels were created.

Note: Psalms 104 implies that angels were created on Day 2.

So in conclusion:

What happened is that Satan possessed or influenced the serpent (a real animal) to speak (by some unknown means we are not aware of). The serpent was in part responsible for the fall of Adam and Eve because it cooperated with the devil. This is why the serpent (an actual real animal) was punished.

The problem with your opinion of Satan possessing the serpent, is that John identifies Satan as the serpent in the book of Revelation, so the idea of Satan possessing a snake is based on eisegesis rather than exegesis.

Revelation 20:2

And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years

the serpent being smarter than any beast of the field doesn’t mean that he/it is also a beast of the feast or a wild animal.

This also applies to being cursed - you can be cursed more than something else, and not be categorically what you are cursed more than.

Christ also identifies Satan with the serpent here:

John 8:44

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Satan is a liar, he is the father of lies, and has been a murderer since the beginning. To be a father of something means to be the origin of something. If you are the father of lies, that means you are the first liar and the source of lies.

now, going back to the beginning - Who is the first liar? The serpent:

Genesis 3:4

And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die

this is the first lie recorded in the Bible, thus we are clued in by Christ that Satan is indeed the serpent.

FaithT · Mar 30, 2021

Hope1960 said:
Ok, so those things you described (including a talking snake, talking donkey etc.) would be miraculous, or, supernatural events then?

Bible Highlighter?

coffee4u · Mar 30, 2021

Freth said:
The time prophecies and alignments with historical events give us a good indicator where we are in earth's history. You can calculate from creation to present day and it's about six thousand years. The events that were prophesied for the last days are happening. I don't think you can look at the Biblical timeline and come to the conclusion that the earth is older than six thousand years, unless you're inserting time that isn't there in scripture.

You are welcome to go with James Usshers calculations but I don't because any person who would put an exact time and date on creation is 1)Arrogant and 2)Not someone who I would trust. And 3) I do not believe the Bible is meant to be a calculator. We are only told what we need to know.

Silverback · Mar 30, 2021

Dale said:
In Genesis 3, a serpent, or snake, talks with Eve. In Genesis 3:14-15, God says that the serpent will lose its legs. God doesn’t say that the serpent will no longer be able to talk or no longer have the intelligence to talk. We know there are no talking snakes today. Snakes do not have the vocal cords for speech, or any brain that could carry on a conversation.

All of this fits with the creation story in Genesis 2-3 being a parable for our instruction. It is not history. It doesn’t take place in the real world. The talking snake is a literary device.

For creationists, God did not take the serpent’s voice away, or say that it would lose intelligence to become a dumb animal. If there were talking snakes only six thousand years ago, when many creationists believe the world was created, there should be talking snakes today. How do creationists explain this?

Many creationists have been taught that Eve was tempted by Satan. They have been taught to substitute “Satan” for “snake” or serpent. Yet Genesis says nothing about Satan being in the Garden of Eden. This could be one reason creationists don’t ask when snakes lost their voices, they think of the snake as a manifestation of Satan. Yet Genesis says no such thing. God talks about the serpent as a real animal when it says it will “crawl on its belly,” or lose its legs.

If God didn’t take away the snake’s voice or its intelligence at the Expulsion from Eden, why don’t snakes talk today? It’s something for creationists to think about.

The King James Version does mention devils more often than most modern translation. Even so, the first mention of Satan in the KJV is in I Chronicles.

And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
I Chronicles 21:1 KJV

The first mention of devil or devils in the KJV is in Leviticus.

And they shall no more offer their sacrifices unto devils, after
whom they have gone a whoring. This shall be a statute for ever unto them
throughout their generations. Leviticus 17:7 KJV

There is no mention of Devil or Satan in Eden, or in any other part of Genesis.

Well, to be honest I don't dig to deep into the the temptation of Eve, the flood, or the talking donkey, I tend to accept them as truth, because Gods word is truth.

Many things in the scriptures are not fully revealed to us, and this leads to questions, often with no satisfactory answer...I would assume that's because God has his reasons.

So, as I said, I take the biblical narrative on faith, because that's the right thing to do.

Bible Highlighter · Mar 30, 2021

Dkh587 said:
The problem with your opinion of Satan possessing the serpent, is that John identifies Satan as the serpent in the book of Revelation, so the idea of Satan possessing a snake is based on eisegesis rather than exegesis.

Revelation 20:2

It is true that the apostle John identifies Satan as that old serpent, but it is also equally true that the serpent was among the beasts of the field and more subtle than the other beasts, and the serpent was cursed above all cattle. This places the serpent in the group of animals from day 6 (in Genesis chapter 1).

the serpent being smarter than any beast of the field doesn’t mean that he/it is also a beast of the feast or a wild animal.

I disagree. It is a logical conclusion. The continual reference to the beasts of the field shows that this was indeed a beast, as well.

This also applies to being cursed - you can be cursed more than something else, and not be categorically what you are cursed more than.

But when the comparison is made in contrast to the other animals and we know a serpent is an animal then it is a foregone conclusion that it is indeed a beast (or animal) like the others. Only somebody who does not like the idea of a talking serpent will seek to change God's Word to fit what they prefer.

You said:
Christ also identifies Satan with the serpent here:

John 8:44

Satan is a liar, he is the father of lies, and has been a murderer since the beginning. To be a father of something means to be the origin of something. If you are the father of lies, that means you are the first liar and the source of lies.

now, going back to the beginning - Who is the first liar? The serpent:

Genesis 3:1, and Genesis 3:14 are just as equally true as John 8:44, and Revelation 20:2.

Bible Highlighter · Mar 30, 2021

Hope1960 said:
Ok, so those things you described (including a talking snake, talking donkey etc.) would be miraculous, or, supernatural events then?

Supernatural:
Webster 1913 Definition:

“Being beyond, or exceeding, the power or laws of nature; miraculous.”

Source:
Supernatural | Definition of Supernatural by Webster's Online Dictionary

Was the serpent talking a miraculous or supernatural event?

I believe there are two possibilities with the serpent speaking.

#1. The serpent (a real animal - pre-fall) was able to naturally speak with humans as a part of the pre-fall creation somehow but Satan was either influencing this animal and or it was possessed by the devil to some capacity.
#2. The serpent (a real animal - pre-fall) was only able to speak by the possession or working of the devil.

While the serpent speaking may or may not have been a supernatural event (at the time), by today's standards, the idea of a talking snake would be a miraculous thing. Granted parrots can repeat certain words that we speak. But an animal actually carrying on a conversation with us is a pretty amazing thing because it is not common among the animal kingdom today.

As for the donkey speaking: Yes, that definitely was a miracle or a supernatural event because God opened the mouth of the donkey.

“Then the LORD opened the donkey's mouth, and it said to Balaam, "What have I done to you to make you beat me these three times?” (Numbers 22:28) (NIV).

Norbert L · Mar 30, 2021

Dkh587 said:
the serpent being smarter than any beast of the field doesn’t mean that he/it is also a beast of the feast or a wild animal.

I do wonder about that verse, whether it's meant as some kind of double entendre or left handed compliment that puts the serpent in his place as a created being.

coffee4u · Mar 30, 2021

Norbert L said:
I do wonder about that verse, whether it's meant as some kind of double entendre or left handed compliment that puts the serpent in his place as a created being.

What I have read is that the serpent/snake being on the ground and 'eating dirt' is a reminder to mankind of what Satan is like and how God is in control.

Dale · Mar 30, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
I think you just do not believe in the possiblity of talking animals (Regardless of what verses are presented to you). It is too far out there for you. But the Bible is a book that is full of the miraculous. It takes faith to believe in God's Word. Men also lived for 900 some years back then, too. Is that also outside your realm of possibility, too? See the issue is your acceptance of the text. The Bible does not say that the serpent appeared to talk like a man. We don't know how the serpent was able to communicate or speak with Eve. We just know that the Scriptures say that the serpent spoke with Eve. You either accept the Scriptures and it's many miraculous things or you don't. The choice is yours. Some people do not accept the miracle that Jesus rose from the dead because they don't think it is possible. Is the resurrection a metaphor, too? The Bible warns against turning His word into fables or myths (2 Timothy 4:4). Your not believing Genesis 3 sounds dangerously close to doing that.

Bible Highlighter said:
It just doesn't sound consistent to me. If one animal speaks literally in one case, then why is it that another animal in a different case was not literally speaking? To me: This seems like a cross reference in Scripture whereby I see two animals speaking in Scripture. I am not looking to make excuses for what is possible or not possible. I know the Bible is a book full of the miraculous. I just read it and believe it. It does not sound impossible to me that a serpent could talk if it was the devil who possessed the serpent. Again, the devil is able to do miracles, too. 2 Thessalonians 2:9 says there is “the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,” and Exodus 7:10-11 says, “Aaron cast down his rod before Pharaoh, and before his servants, and it became a serpent. Then Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers: now the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments.”

Side Note:

Granted, there are limitations to what the devil can do (of course). GOD is so much more powerful obviously. GOD's power is unlimited and He holds all things together by the word of His power.

Bible Highlighter in post #51: “But the Bible is a book that is full of the miraculous.”

Bible Highlighter in post #70: “I know the Bible is a book full of the miraculous.”

You put a lot of stock in miracles and you seem to regard the Bible as a book of miracles. Do you understand that the primary purposes of the Bible is to offer moral instruction and point us to salvation. While miracles have a role in pointing people in the right direction, we should not be obsessed with them.

Miracles are not intended to provide freedom from logic.

Bible Highlighter in post #51: “ Men also lived for 900 some years back then, too. Is that also outside your realm of possibility, too?”

I met a man who was an ultraconservative Christian. You could call him a religious fanatic. He had studied the Bible thoroughly and became convinced that some of the numbers in the Bible are exaggerations. When the early books of the Bible were composed you honored men by saying that they lived for 900 years.

Dale · Mar 30, 2021

Bobber said:
You speak of laws. What laws are you talking about?

You could start with the law of gravity, or any other natural laws.

Dale · Mar 31, 2021

renniks said:
Simple. It was a snake possessed by Satan. Demon possession of animals is a must believe for Christians. Jesus sent demons into pigs, remember? I suppose you think that's a parable too?

The swine possessed by demons expelled from “Legion” did not talk. All they did was destroy themselves.

Have you noticed that nowhere in the Bible is there are command not to listen to talking animals? Where is the command: “If an animal talks to you, don’t listen, the animal is possessed by a demon.” I’ve seen no such verse, and that’s probably because a devil speaking through a possessed animal is impossible.

Bible Highlighter · Mar 31, 2021

Dale said:
Bible Highlighter in post #51: “But the Bible is a book that is full of the miraculous.”

Bible Highlighter in post #70: “I know the Bible is a book full of the miraculous.”

You put a lot of stock in miracles and you seem to regard the Bible as a book of miracles. Do you understand that the primary purposes of the Bible is to offer moral instruction and point us to salvation. While miracles have a role in pointing people in the right direction, we should not be obsessed with them.

Miracles are not intended to provide freedom from logic.

Well, I am non-denominational, and I am not Charismatic or Pentecostal or anything (Note: I believe the Bible leans more towards Cessationism; Granted, I label this one as a bit of a mystery because I have friends who are Pentecostal; So while miracles are possible by God if a person prays, I am not 100% convinced that the miraculous sign gifts that the early church possessed has still continued on to this day). So no. I am not seeking miracles if that is what you are implying. I am saying that the Bible is full of the miraculous because that is a simple fact that you have to accept whether you like it or not. I am also a very strongly for being logical. For example: I believe the story of Noah and Ham uses metaphors that your average Christian reader does not either accept or know about and thus they are confused as to what really happened.

Biblical Metaphors Shed Light on Ham's Sin in Noah's Tent.

As for the moral instruction of the Bible: Yes, I am in 100% agreement with that aspect of the Bible. Sin and salvation is a highly misunderstood subject amongst popular Christianity. But Sanctification (after we are initially saved by God's grace through faith) is not our own doing, but it is the power of the living of God working through us. For by man's power alone, truly living a holy life is not possible, but with God, all things are possible. In short, God can work the miracle of helping us to live a holy life by faith. So if you remove the miraculous, you are essentially removing God from the Bible (if that is indeed the point you were trying to make).

I met a man who was an ultraconservative Christian. You could call him a religious fanatic.

How would you define an ultra conservative Christian or a religious fanatic as being different from other followers of Jesus Christ and His Word?

Note: Just one description or characteristic is not really going to cut it, my friend.

You said:
Bible Highlighter in post #51: “ Men also lived for 900 some years back then, too. Is that also outside your realm of possibility, too?”

I met a man who was an ultraconservative Christian. You could call him a religious fanatic. He had studied the Bible thoroughly and became convinced that some of the numbers in the Bible are exaggerations. When the early books of the Bible were composed you honored men by saying that they lived for 900 years.

That's crazy. Do people really think that way?
Do they also believe in a flat Earth?
Anyways, I actually tend to think the numbers in the Bible show that God's Word is divine in origin.

If you are interested, you can check out the videos within my Blogger article that talks about the many evidences that back up God's Word here:

Love Branch: Evidences for the Word of God

Side Note:

Oh, and wouldn't an ultra conservative Christian read the Bible more literally and not in an exaggerated way? I think a liberal Christian would be more likely to exaggerate parts of the Bible than a conservative Christian.

Bible Highlighter · Mar 31, 2021

Dale said:
The swine possessed by demons expelled from “Legion” did not talk. All they did was destroy themselves.

Have you noticed that nowhere in the Bible is there are command not to listen to talking animals? Where is the command: “If an animal talks to you, don’t listen, the animal is possessed by a demon.” I’ve seen no such verse, and that’s probably because a devil speaking through a possessed animal is impossible.

Then the serpent was a real snake (pre-fall) and it really knew how to speak to humans in some way and the devil merely influenced the serpent in some way (But not to a point whereby the serpent was entirely taken over). For the serpent was punished for what it did.

coffee4u · Mar 31, 2021

Dale said:
You put a lot of stock in miracles and you seem to regard the Bible as a book of miracles. Do you understand that the primary purposes of the Bible is to offer moral instruction and point us to salvation.

Salvation from what?

I met a man who was an ultraconservative Christian. You could call him a religious fanatic. He had studied the Bible thoroughly and became convinced that some of the numbers in the Bible are exaggerations. When the early books of the Bible were composed you honored men by saying that they lived for 900 years.

It isn't about what sounds good to our ears or looks logical but what it actually says.

Job 33:6 · Mar 31, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
This is false. There are many dragon sightings throughout history.

This is just embarrassing. Dinosaurs have been gone for millions of years.

As much as the hovind family wants to keep the dream alive, in this modern day of advanced technology, where we can use satellite images to track people around the planet, nobody on earth has any evidence for a currently living dinosaur. Or even further, we don't have any evidence of currently living early cenozoic mega fauna either. Because they've been gone for millions of years.

These guys look like they're just trying to sell their books. Nothing more than con artists.

Do Creationists Believe in Talking Snakes?

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