Biden Admin Working On Vaccine Passports ‘A Scannable Code Similar To An Airline Boarding Pass’

mark46 · Mar 30, 2021

tall73 said:
You apparently lost track of what you were arguing against.

The fact that it has been made political is exactly what I said from the beginning of my posting in this thread.

And that is why you should not have a Democrat push this when the businesses can do it without that. Because then it builds unnecessary opposition. If you know that his base will resist anything pushed by the other side, why make this political instead of leaving it in the hands of the businesses who are actually going to be using it?

People should be protected. The federal government should and will act to protect citizens as they can. It is really that simple. Private local businesses will not be forced to do anything.

mark46 · Mar 30, 2021

tall73 said:
You apparently lost track of what you were arguing against.

The fact that it has been made political is exactly what I said from the beginning of my posting in this thread.

And that is why you should not have a Democrat push this when the businesses can do it without that. Because then it builds unnecessary opposition. If you know that his base will resist anything pushed by the other side, why make this political instead of leaving it in the hands of the businesses who are actually going to be using it?

COVID was made political for 4 years under Trump. It is only under Trump that science is political.

mark46 · Mar 30, 2021

whatbogsends said:
Vaccines, in general, have demonstrated both efficacy and safety in rigorous tests. The COVID vaccines, have gone through significant testing, but not as lengthy or rigorous as previous vaccines have done, precisely in order to get them out quickly in response to the pandemic.

Do you fully trust pharmaceutical companies to put the health and well being of their customers ahead of profit interests? Their past actions suggest that they quite often do the reverse.

As far as them not "forcing" the vaccine, requiring documentation of vaccination to perform basic societal functions is soft way to force the vaccine. I agree that vaccination should be tracked, and creating a system to facilitate that tracking is common sense. Requiring people be vaccinated to shop at grocery stores, for example, is over reach, especially as it is not even currently known that the vaccines significantly reduce the spread of the virus. Continuing to require masking and social distancing, on the other hand, is a reasonable approach, which doesn't encroach on people's decisions about their own health.

I am absolutely a proponent of masking and social distance practicing, and, as i've noted, i am registered to get the vaccine myself. That being said, the language used by those, such as yourself, that questioning the efficacy and safety of vaccines is "irresponsible" is not only a false characterization, but also serves to push those with concerns into an oppositional stance. Instead of using emotional rhetoric to bully those with doubts, provide information which would eliminate those doubts. Part of the problem with that approach is that the information as to the efficacy and safety of the vaccines is still in question.

The efficacy of vaccines really isn't in question. Final approval will be given relatively soon. Emergency approvals have been made because the FA and CDC believes that vaccines are safe and effective.

NightHawkeye · Mar 30, 2021

expos4ever said:
How does a vaccine passport infringe on people's decisions about their own health? They are perfectly free to not be vaccinated; however, there is, I suggest, no "right" to access to businesses. For example, businesses are free to refuse service to people with no shirts, to give a silly example.

I find a strong point of agreement here.

In my state for example we do not have a mask mandate yet most businesses still "require" people to wear masks (though enforcement tends to be non-existent). Most people do wear masks but I've never seen so much as an argument over somebody who was not wearing a mask.

Airlines and other companies in the transportation industry are free to enforce vaccine restrictions as well. There are certainly strong arguments for doing so. It is better for companies to impose restrictions than the government. Companies which impose unreasonable restrictions will suffer repercussions from doing so. Similarly, companies which fail to impose needed restrictions will suffer repercussions.

tall73 · Mar 30, 2021

mark46 said:
Trump's base are the vast majority anti-vaccers. .

Anti-vaxxers are a quite small group who are found on both sides of the aisle. They pre-date Trump.

A different group, who are hesitant about the covid vaccine, are shrinking. They just were waiting to see evidence. As they get evidence the group continues to shrink.

The folks who will resist anything Democrats do don't even have to be a party to this if you just have the private businesses adopt available technology, and leave the government out of it.

You seem more interested in sticking it to Trump's base than figuring out how to get the most herd immunity.

Speedwell · Mar 30, 2021

NightHawkeye said:
I find a strong point of agreement here.

In my state for example we do not have a mask mandate yet most businesses still "require" people to wear masks (though enforcement tends to be non-existent). Most people do wear masks but I've never seen so much as an argument over somebody who was not wearing a mask.

Airlines and other companies in the transportation industry are free to enforce vaccine restrictions as well. There are certainly strong arguments for doing so. It is better for companies to impose restrictions than the government. Companies which impose unreasonable restrictions will suffer repercussions from doing so. Similarly, companies which fail to impose needed restrictions will suffer repercussions.

But it doesn't answer my question. Let us suppose that some evil left-wing bureaucrats have hatched a nefarious scheme to use your vaccination record against you. They already have that information. What's stopping them from using it now? And if you are going to be (unjustly) required to provide a vaccination record to someone, what difference does it make if you show them the little yellow booklet or let them scan a barcode off your phone?

hedrick · Mar 30, 2021

There needs to be some solution for people who can’t be vaccinated.

hislegacy · Mar 30, 2021

Observation and opinion:

In less than 90 years targeting people groups has gone from yellow stars to QR codes.

Disclaimer: I have been vaccinated because I plan on international travel. My concerns is for identity and personal information being protected.

If someone can scan a credit card in your pocket (they hit mine for 6K), how do you protect sensitive info?

tall73 · Mar 30, 2021

hedrick said:
There needs to be some solution for people who can’t be vaccinated.

They note that it could include a recent negative test. However, that would be a big burden for those with medical exemptions to keep getting tested.

It should also include those who have demonstrated antibodies from recent infection.

Speedwell · Mar 30, 2021

hislegacy said:
Observation and opinion:

In less than 90 years targeting people groups has gone from yellow stars to QR codes.

Disclaimer: I have been vaccinated because I plan on international travel. My concerns is for identity and personal information being protected.

If someone can scan a credit card in your pocket (they hit mine for 6K), how do you protect sensitive info?

So stay with the little yellow booklet.

whatbogsends · Mar 30, 2021

mark46 said:
The efficacy of vaccines really isn't in question. Final approval will be given relatively soon. Emergency approvals have been made because the FA and CDC believes that vaccines are safe and effective.

Questions:

1. How long does the immunity provided last?
2. How effective are the vaccines at reducing transmission?
3. How effective are the vaccines on COVID variants?

hislegacy · Mar 30, 2021

Speedwell said:
So stay with the little yellow booklet.

No clue what that means.

hedrick · Mar 30, 2021

tall73 said:
They note that it could include a recent negative test. However, that would be a big burden for those with medical exemptions to keep getting tested.

It should also include those who have demonstrated antibodies from recent infection.

Depends upon how it’s used. I don’t see grocery stores requiring it. If it’s just international travel, OK. Of course where I work we get weekly tests now.

tall73 · Mar 30, 2021

hedrick said:
Depends upon how it’s used. I don’t see grocery stores requiring it. If it’s just international travel, OK. Of course where I work we get weekly tests now.

Yes, that makes sense. For big events or air travel, an occasional test may not be too big of a burden.

hislegacy · Mar 30, 2021

Europe is already developing a passport system.

Interesting article on the push back

A coronavirus vaccine passport to nowhere

Ethical: The most obvious use case for vaccine passports is for international travel, which has been crippled by onerous quarantine restrictions. But such a system risks locking out billions of people who are unable or unwilling to get the vaccine.

The EU has been discussing the creation of a vaccine passport, with tourism-dependent countries like Greece leading the charge. But Germany and France — where the vaccine rollout has been low and hesitancy is high — have reservations, and any such system looks to be months away.
A bigger ethical concern is the many people in developing countries who may not get access to vaccines of any sort for months or even years while rich nations hoard supplies.
And if vaccine passports are used not just for international travel but to allow people to work and engage in social life domestically, they could create cripplingly unequal barriers that might paradoxically reinforce vaccine hesitancy.

Speedwell · Mar 30, 2021

hislegacy said:
No clue what that means.

The International Certificate of Vaccination:

hislegacy · Mar 30, 2021

tall73 said:
Yes, that makes sense. For big events or air travel, an occasional test may not be too big of a burden.

I had the chance to travel to NYS in January for a ten day trip. I was required to:

Have a negative test within three days of travel - $59.00
Sign documentation on the aircraft giving contact information and where I was quarantining.
Spend three days quarantined in a hotel - $350.00
Have Breakfast, lunch and dinner by contactless deliver for those three days (hotel was not serving food) - $147.00
Have a second rapid test on the fourth day -$165.00

That increased the cost of my trip $721.00.

That was a burden to me personally.

hedrick · Mar 30, 2021

Those NY requirements seem atypical. NJ expects voluntary compliance with the CDC recommendation, which doesn’t have the 3 day quarantine within the state. It does have a 7 day one at home after returning, and a second test. So for us there would be no cost, assuming your state offers free testing, as we do. It’s unclear how serious we are about the 7 day quarantine. Other web pages say to do it if coming from a state with a higher rate if Covid. There aren’t any at the moment.

hislegacy · Mar 30, 2021

hedrick said:
Those NY requirements seem atypical. NJ expects voluntary compliance with the CDC recommendation, which doesn’t have the 3 day quarantine within the state. It does have a 7 day one at home after returning, and a second test. So for us there would be no cost, assuming your state offers free testing, as we do. It’s unclear how serious we are about the 7 day quarantine. Other web pages say to do it if coming from a state with a higher rate if Covid. There aren’t any at the moment.

An FYI I received daily text messages from the State reminding me I was supposed to be quarantined. Followed by six days of texts reminding me I had to be tested again.

I like OK for a reason.

hedrick · Mar 30, 2021

That requirement almost made sense when NY had done a good job with Covid but it was increasing in other states. It makes less sense now, and it will make no sense in a month or two.

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