Ashli Babbitt

civilwarbuff said:

I believe you just educated everyone here for me.....thank you......

Click to expand...

Yes one woman was killed. I didn't really think that fact was in dispute.

Still haven't really made your case for that comparison though.

Interesting. Did Attucks get killed storming the local parliament or something?

TheBear said:

By Jan 7th, and less than 24 hours after the incident occurred, a full and thorough investigation was conducted and completed.

Click to expand...

Yes, that's correct, and the US Capitol Hill Police officer who shot her was not charged.

Inquiry Has Not Found Evidence to Charge Officer in Rioter’s Death at Capitol

Officer Who Shot Capitol Rioter Ashli Babbitt Shouldn’t Be Charged, Investigators Advise

No charges recommended for officer who shot Ashli Babbitt during Capitol riot, source says

Oompa Loompa said:

Let's remember this post the next time BLM rioters smash through a store window and get shot in the face.

Click to expand...

Feel free to call out my hypocrisy whenever you actually see some.

iluvatar5150 said:

Did any Antifa protestors storm a government building, breaking down barricades, trying to reach, and possibly accost, the government officials they believed to be inside? I don't recall that ever happening - what I recall is a lot of antics outside the building and maybe a couple folks getting into a garage.

Click to expand...

We can only imagine the collective right wing aneurism the moment a black lives matter protest would breach into the capitol building and threaten lawmakers.

One difference though is that I wouldn't be here defending them or wringing my hands over one of them getting shot in the process.

TheBear said:

By Jan 7th, and less than 24 hours after the incident occurred, a full and thorough investigation was conducted and completed.

Click to expand...

Yeah, it seemed the perpetrators of this attack took the extra effort to record their crimes to give us a bunch of nice angles.

civilwarbuff said:

It was ONE.....ONE woman......for crying out loud......excessive force anyone?

Click to expand...

She wasn't alone or the only one trying to remove the barricade. She was merely the one who got shot.

TheBear said:

Also, please refrain from assigning motives, mind reading, or any other personal remarks.

Click to expand...

That is exactly what happens, every time. There are investigations-the investigations don’t support the allegations- there is a call for more investigations, as with the endless ‘election fraud’ investigations and Clinton being investigated 17 times for the same thing. It’s a running joke.

TheBear said:

You've indicated/implied that there was already an investigation conducted.

Click to expand...

No, I didn’t. As I assume you are aware however the Metropolitan police and the FBI both investigated the incident and came to similar conclusions. If you aren’t aware of that because actual real news makes your eyes burn, I suppose you could put in an information request.

TheBear said:

news outlets or political hacks don't count

Click to expand...

What is that supposed to mean? Please provide some credibly supported argument as to which news outlets ‘don’t count’ and exactly why, with clear and precise evidence to support this.

civilwarbuff said:

It was ONE.....ONE woman......for crying out loud......excessive force anyone?

Click to expand...

You didn’t notice all the other people in the video footage?

Yttrium said:

Bah. This isn't just any federal building, this is the Capitol Building we're talking about.

Click to expand...

And it was mentioned that at least one state capitol building was also attacked (and a lot more damage done to it than the US Capitol suffered).

In short, that technique of claiming that one event was seriously "different" from the other one, but falling back on what are not really meaningful differences, won't work. I expect to read next that the color of the carpets was different from one building to the next, so that one event is supposedly treason and the other is an overexuberant cocktail hour.

Albion said:

And it was mentioned that at least one state capitol building was also attacked (and a lot more damage done to it than the US Capitol suffered).

In short, that technique of claiming that one event was seriously "different" from the other one, but falling back on what are not really meaningful differences, won't work. I expect to read next that the color of the carpets was different from one building to the next, so that one event is supposedly treason and the other is an overexuberant cocktail hour.

Click to expand...

Come on, one is federal and the other is state. States are under no obligation to handle things the same as the federal government.

I would be fine if my state government would be willing to use lethal force to protect the innards of our capitol building. But my state officials are kinda wimpy about that.

variant said:

We can only imagine the collective right wing aneurism the moment a black lives matter protest would breach into the capitol building and threaten lawmakers.

One difference though is that I wouldn't be here defending them or wringing my hands over one of them getting shot in the process.

Click to expand...

It's not merely defending her - the amount of disingenuousness and gaslighting about what happened is bonkers.

Yttrium said:

Come on, one is federal and the other is state.

Click to expand...

And I'll bet that the architectural styles are somewhat different too. Or were you going to get to that?

The argument that a state capitol, the seat of state government, can be violently assaulted and that's no big deal, but a bunch of people who break into the US Capitol, scatter paper, and sit in the chair of the Speaker of the House without permission is treason and almost caused the end of democracy...

well, it's not worth further discussion.

Albion said:

And it was mentioned that at least one state capitol building was also attacked (and a lot more damage done to it than the US Capitol suffered).

In short, that technique of claiming that one event was seriously "different" from the other one, but falling back on what are not really meaningful differences, won't work. I expect to read next that the color of the carpets was different from one building to the next, so that one event is supposedly treason and the other is an overexuberant cocktail hour.

Click to expand...

Was the state capitol in session? At any point did state police face the prospect of violent protesters getting hands on those they are charged to protect?

Albion said:

And I'll bet that the architectural styles are somewhat different too. Or were you going to get to that?

Click to expand...

You seriously don't see the difference between federal and state? Well, no wonder we have a hard time communicating.

TheBear said:

I couldn't get past your first question because it was a loaded question with false assumptions. And now, instead of addressing my questions, (which is something I've been asking all along), you're assigning motives to me. Please stick to the topic, and leave personal remarks aside.

Click to expand...

Sorry, but ignoring her motives and what was happening around her being shot tells me that you are trying to reframe the question.

Agreed.

This is what I've been trying to get at. In particular, people want to know about use of force rules of the Capitol Police, and if they were followed in this incident.

Click to expand...

Glad we agree on something. But why focus on this incident and not the hundreds around the country?

I disagree.

There are too many nuanced variables and questionable claims to consider. It isn't as black and white as some are making it to be. Thus, my questions.

Click to expand...

It is black and white. At some point, someone was going to shot people trying to get to Congress, that I take as a given. The Capitol Police and the D.C. Police went to extreme lengths not to shoot people. But at some point, someone was going to go over a line and get shot.

The doors to the Speaker's Looby were barricaded, there were three cops in front of the doors until they were talked into leaving. That cop and the Secret Service Agents behind them knew that if the mass of people got past them they would have a direct line to the House Chambers. And the House Chambers had not been fully evacuated yet, I believe.

If that cop didn't shot her, the Secret Service would have, I believe. That was a clear no-go zone, both the Secret Service and the officer told her to move back. She didn't and was shot.

iluvatar5150 said:

Got any examples or links?

Click to expand...

Honestly I do not. Perhaps I may have mistaken it for other (non BLM looting) situations in which a store owner was criminally charged for shooting a looter.

SummerMadness said:

I would be interested in hearing all these stories about store owners being charged for shooting looters. Has there even been such a court case?

Click to expand...

Here you go.
Here, Let Me Google That For You

Oompa Loompa said:

Is the subject not whether or not lethal force is was necessary in the event a violent mob converge on a capital building with the intent to overthrow it? My apologies.

Click to expand...

Yes, and your attempt to change the subject to something completely different was not productive. Apology accepted.

SoldierOfTheKing said:

The aim of the the protestors was to disrupt and delay the ratification of the election results to protest election fraud. Which they did. Had all of them stayed out of the Capitol, they would have been largely ignored by the press...

Trespassing on government property generally doesn’t warrant deadly force. It’s a misdemeanor offense.

Click to expand...

The aim of the protestors was to assassinate elected officials, which does warrant deadly force.