The Death and True Resurrection of Jesus.

HARK! · Mar 28, 2021

prodromos said:
Post #340, with your 'qualified' analysis of the Greek and preferred CLV translation.

Those verses make no mention of violating the Sabbath.

However I think that I can see what you are trying to say.

If you can find anything in the TaNaK which would refute the relevant statements in this portion of the Mishnah; I will review the scripture with zeal.

Mishnah Shabbat 23:5

אֶת הַכַּר מִתַּחְתָּיו וּמַטִּילִין אוֹתוֹ עַל הַחֹל בִּשְׁבִיל שֶׁיַּמְתִּין. קוֹשְׁרִים אֶת הַלֶּחִי, לֹא שֶׁיַּעֲלֶה, אֶלָּא שֶׁלֹּא יוֹסִיף. וְכֵן קוֹרָה שֶׁנִּשְׁבְּרָה, סוֹמְכִין אוֹתָהּ בְּסַפְסָל אוֹ בַּאֲרֻכּוֹת הַמִּטָּה, לֹא שֶׁתַּעֲלֶה, אֶלָּא שֶׁלֹּא תוֹסִיף. אֵין מְעַמְּצִין אֶת הַמֵּת בְּשַׁבָּת, וְלֹא בְחֹל עִם יְצִיאַת נֶפֶשׁ. וְהַמְעַמֵּץ עִם יְצִיאַת נֶפֶשׁ, הֲרֵי זֶה שׁוֹפֵךְ דָּמִים:

One may perform all of the needs of the dead on Shabbat. One may smear oil on the body and rinse it with water, and all of this is permitted provided that one does not move any of its limbs, which would constitute a violation of the laws of set-aside objects. When necessary, one may also remove a pillow from beneath it and thereby place it on cold sand in order to delay its decomposition. Similarly, one may tie the jaw of a corpse that is in the process of opening. One may not move it directly so that it will rise back to its original position, but so that it will not continue to open. And similarly, if one has a roof beam that has broken on Shabbat, one may support it with a bench or with long poles from a bed. One may not move it so that the beam will rise back to its original place, but so that it will not continue to fall. One may not shut the eyes of the dead on Shabbat because the body is set-aside. And one may not shut the eyes even on a weekday while the soul departs. One must wait until the person has died. And one who shuts the eyes while the soul departs is a murderer because he has hastened the person’s death.

Yeshua HaDerekh · Mar 28, 2021

HARK! said:
Very good. Thank you for conceding on that critical point.

There are no known witnesses to when Yahshua was raised.

That means that there are no known witnesses to refute the timetable on which Yahshua said he would be raised, 3 days, and 3 nights.

Actually there is. The soldiers were there. Also, read the account of the eyewitnesses on the road to Emmaus. It is impossible to have a Wednesday crucifixion. They said it was now (Sunday) the 3rd day since the events (crucifixion and burial) occurred...Wednesday was impossible. Sunday is day 3, the Sabbath is day 2 and Friday the events occurred. If it were any different Yeshua would have corrected them. That was there specifically for Jewish readers...The Torah (Deuteronomy 19:15) states that according to two witnesses or according to three witnesses a matter shall stand. Thus, two witnesses provide conclusive proof of reality, but one witness does not.

HARK! · Mar 28, 2021

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
Actually there is. The soldiers were there.

Where is the testimony of the soldiers as to the day?

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
Also, read the account of the eyewitnesses on the road to Emmaus.

I read that chapter twice. I didn't see a reference to the day. Can you post the specific verse in that chapter which names the day?

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
It is impossible to have a Wednesday crucifixion.

Bare assertion.

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
They said it was now (Sunday)

Who said it was Sunday. Please post your source.

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
the 3rd day since the events (crucifixion and burial)

On what day was Yahshua executed? The Synoptic Gospels seem to indicate that Yahshua honored Hag Matzot; yet the Gospel of John seems to indicate that Yahshua was executed before Hag Matzot.

I'm sure that you are well aware that these days occur independent of the seven day cycle.

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
Wednesday was impossible. Sunday is day 3,

Bare assertion

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
the Sabbath is day 2

(CLV) Lk 24:1
Now in the early depths of one of the sabbaths, they, and certain others together with them, came onto the tomb, bringing the spices which they make ready.

(CLV) Jn 20:1
Now, on one of the sabbaths, Miriam Magdalene is coming to the tomb in the morning, there being still darkness, and is observing the stone taken away from the door of the tomb.

One = μια mia

Protos means first

Of the = των tOn

Sabbaths = σαββατων sabbatOn

Sabbaton plural, not day singular. The word "day" does not even exist in these verses.

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
and Friday the events occurred.

Bare assertion.

Where is your proof for all of these bare assertions?

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
If it were any different Yeshua would have corrected them.

Corrected whom?

The account that you are purporting includes only two nights.

Yahshua's own words offer correction for that account.

(CLV) Mt 12:40
For even as Jonah was in the bowel of the sea monster three days and three nights, thus will the Son of Mankind be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.

Yeshua HaDerekh · Mar 28, 2021

HARK! said:
Where is the testimony of the soldiers as to the day?
I read that chapter twice. I didn't see a reference to the day. Can you post the specific verse in that chapter which names the day?
Bare assertion.
Who said it was Sunday. Please post your source.
On what day was Yahshua executed? The Synoptic Gospels seem to indicate that Yahshua honored Hag Matzot; yet the Gospel of John seems to indicate that Yahshua was executed before Hag Matzot.
I'm sure that you are well aware that these days occur independent of the seven day cycle.
Bare assertion

(CLV) Lk 24:1
Now in the early depths of one of the sabbaths, they, and certain others together with them, came onto the tomb, bringing the spices which they make ready.

(CLV) Jn 20:1
Now, on one of the sabbaths, Miriam Magdalene is coming to the tomb in the morning, there being still darkness, and is observing the stone taken away from the door of the tomb.

One = μια mia

Protos means first

Of the = των tOn

Sabbaths = σαββατων sabbatOn

Sabbaton plural, not day singular. The word "day" does not even exist in these verses.

The account that you are purporting includes only two nights.

Yahshua's own words offer correction for that account.

(CLV) Mt 12:40
For even as Jonah was in the bowel of the sea monster three days and three nights, thus will the Son of Mankind be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.

Never said there was from the soldiers. You said there were no witnesses. There is no scriptural, historical or traditional evidence for a Shabbat resurrection. That would be YOUR bare assertion. You skipped right over the evidence of the 2 eyewitnesses on the road to Emmaus...I do not need to prove 3 nights. Yonah was an idiom. It says 3 days everywhere else. Also your translation is wrong and would make no sense...the correct translation is the 1st after the Sabbath, which is Sunday. Matthew 12:1 and 28:1 asserts it also in Greek. It is "Sabbath". ALL Church Fathers and Koine Greek writers assert this. Is it YOUR assertion that the eyewitnesses were traveling 7 miles on the Sabbath when Yeshua appeared to them since you say He rose on Shabbat (afternoon??)? The 2 eyewitnesses say that was the 3rd day since all the events happened. That weekly Sabbath was also the 1st of unleavened, otherwise the term in that scripture would make no sense. The Greek word μεγάλη (megale) has a meaning like the Hebrew "gadol".

DamianWarS · Mar 28, 2021

HARK! said:
Would you like to double down with an argumentum ad populum

Latin won't save you, the Latin text agrees that it was the first of the week (so does the Latin church). Sabbati in Latin is plural for sabbato, which is Latin for the day of the week Sabbath (Saturday) the plural however is used for week which is consistent with Biblical Greek. Sure it could mean Sabbaths, as in literally a collection of the days of Sabbaths but then saying the first of a collection of Sabbaths doesn't really make much sense does it?

Sabbaths (plural) is used for week because weeks/days were marked by the Sabbath. Days were 1 sabbath, 2 sabbath, 3 sabbath etc... until Friday which was preparation day and then the actual sabbath. This is still this way in modern Greek accept they have replaced the first with the Lord's Day but Monday is still the second, Tuesday the third, etc...

I speak a language that also has the same name for Sunday/week. The word is "minggu" so you can have the day minggu or the week minggu. This is the same with month/moon (English still has it remains in "moon-th") this is just how languages did it and context made it clear enough and native speakers did have a problem.

YLT is a very literal translation and is tries to preserve exactly as is and it can be confusing, because of this it is nicnamed "Yoda's Literal Translation" because verses often sound like how Yoda would put it. YLT however is not making a interpretation as to the texts meaning they are just translating the words as-is to allow the reader to discover it's meaning so the YLT does not agree with the reading of CLV which seems to be making more of an interpretation of the text.

Bro.T · Mar 29, 2021

prodromos said:
They show no such thing.

Sunday began around 10 hours earlier.

Again, it had been Sunday for at least 10 hours by this time.

Before sunrise, but Sunday began some 10-12 hours earlier at sunset.

Before the dawn on Sunday, which still leaves approximately 10-12 hours after sunset on the Sabbath in which Jesus rose.

Sure you can. Synecdoche.

Cannot Get 3 Days And 3 Nights

Now despite the fact that Jesus Himself said that He would be in the grave 3 days and 3 nights, man has come up with the tradition of Jesus dying on Good Friday and rising early Sunday morning. In following this tradition, not only does one not observe one of God's Holy Days, which is the Passover, they directly deny the words of Jesus. It was Jesus who gave the sign of being in the grave 3 days and 3 nights. The tradition of Good Friday and Easter clearly does not line up with scripture. Because following this tradition the maximum one has Jesus in the grave is 1 day and 2 nights.

According to tradition, if Jesus had died on Friday, He would have been in the grave Friday night, Saturday day and Saturday night. One would not count Sunday because in John (20:1) it states that the 1st day of the week which is Sunday, Mary came to the grave site when it was still dark. In Luke (24:1-6) They find that the stone which was placed in front of the sepulcher had been removed and an angel tells them that Jesus had already risen.

How They Say It Happened

Tradition Man - Good Friday to Easter Sunday Morning

SU M T W TH F S

Days 1

Nights 1 1

(John 20:1) The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre. (2) Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him.

(Luke 24:1) Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. (2) And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre. (3) And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus. (4) And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments:

(5) And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead?

(6) He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee,

Bro.T · Mar 29, 2021

klutedavid said:
I am not sure if you understand what those three verses, cited above are saying. Jesus rose before sunrise on Sunday morning. That is all these verses are saying. Jesus could have risen an hour or two earlier, what difference does that make? Those verses do not say Jesus rose on the Sabbath day. Nor do those verses state that Jesus rose before Sunday.

Remember, Sunday started twelve hours roughly, before Mary even arrived at the tomb.

Jesus was witnessed to have risen on the first day, on Sunday. That is all that matters in the end.

That is the tradition of the church, a Sunday resurrection. That is what the early church letters state. Even the scripture states he rose on the first day.

Mark 16:9
Now after He had risen early on the first day of the week...

If you want Jesus to have risen on the Sabbath day, then your fighting directly against the scripture and church history.

Cannot Get 3 Days And 3 Nights

Now despite the fact that Jesus Himself said that He would be in the grave 3 days and 3 nights, man has come up with the tradition of Jesus dying on Good Friday and rising early Sunday morning. In following this tradition, not only does one not observe one of God's Holy Days, which is the Passover, they directly deny the words of Jesus. It was Jesus who gave the sign of being in the grave 3 days and 3 nights. The tradition of Good Friday and Easter clearly does not line up with scripture. Because following this tradition the maximum one has Jesus in the grave is 1 day and 2 nights.

According to tradition, if Jesus had died on Friday, He would have been in the grave Friday night, Saturday day and Saturday night. One would not count Sunday because in John (20:1) it states that the 1st day of the week which is Sunday, Mary came to the grave site when it was still dark. In Luke (24:1-6) They find that the stone which was placed in front of the sepulcher had been removed and an angel tells them that Jesus had already risen.

How They Say It Happened

Tradition Man - Good Friday to Easter Sunday Morning

SU M T W TH F S

Days 1

Nights 1 1

(John 20:1) The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre. (2) Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him.

(Luke 24:1) Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. (2) And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre. (3) And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus. (4) And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments:

(5) And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead?

(6) He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee,

Bro.T · Mar 29, 2021

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
Of course I can because it proves your timeline wrong. And that has nothing to do with my point...and is no proof of your timeline.

Cannot Get 3 Days And 3 Nights

Now despite the fact that Jesus Himself said that He would be in the grave 3 days and 3 nights, man has come up with the tradition of Jesus dying on Good Friday and rising early Sunday morning. In following this tradition, not only does one not observe one of God's Holy Days, which is the Passover, they directly deny the words of Jesus. It was Jesus who gave the sign of being in the grave 3 days and 3 nights. The tradition of Good Friday and Easter clearly does not line up with scripture. Because following this tradition the maximum one has Jesus in the grave is 1 day and 2 nights.

According to tradition, if Jesus had died on Friday, He would have been in the grave Friday night, Saturday day and Saturday night. One would not count Sunday because in John (20:1) it states that the 1st day of the week which is Sunday, Mary came to the grave site when it was still dark. In Luke (24:1-6) They find that the stone which was placed in front of the sepulcher had been removed and an angel tells them that Jesus had already risen.

How They Say It Happened

Tradition Man - Good Friday to Easter Sunday Morning

SU M T W TH F S

Days 1

Nights 1 1

(John 20:1) The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre. (2) Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him.

(Luke 24:1) Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. (2) And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre. (3) And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus. (4) And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments:

(5) And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead?

(6) He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee,

HARK! · Mar 29, 2021

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
Never said there was from the soldiers. You said there were no witnesses. There is no scriptural, historical or traditional evidence for a Shabbat resurrection. That would be YOUR bare assertion. You skipped right over the evidence of the 2 eyewitnesses on the road to Emmaus...I do not need to prove 3 nights. Yonah was an idiom. It says 3 days everywhere else. Also your translation is wrong and would make no sense...the correct translation is the 1st after the Sabbath, which is Sunday. Matthew 12:1 and 28:1 asserts it also in Greek. It is "Sabbath". ALL Church Fathers and Koine Greek writers assert this. Is it YOUR assertion that the eyewitnesses were traveling 7 miles on the Sabbath when Yeshua appeared to them since you say He rose on Shabbat (afternoon??)? The 2 eyewitnesses say that was the 3rd day since all the events happened. That weekly Sabbath was also the 1st of unleavened, otherwise the term in that scripture would make no sense. The Greek word μεγάλη (megale) has a meaning like the Hebrew "gadol".

Nice strawman.

I didn't make an assertion. I presented a supposition. That supposition seeks to provide an explanation for the words of Messiah. However you assertion works to explain away the words of Messiah.

I'll ponder my supposition until at which time a better one is revealed.

HARK! · Mar 29, 2021

DamianWarS said:
Latin won't save you

Argumentum ad populum is a type of informal fallacy,[1][13] specifically a fallacy of relevance,[14][15] and is similar to an argument from authority (argumentum ad verecundiam).[13][3][8] It uses an appeal to the beliefs, tastes, or values of a group of people,[11] stating that because a certain opinion or attitude is held by a majority, it is therefore correct.[11][16]

Argumentum ad populum - Wikipedia

Bro.T · Mar 29, 2021

Der Alte said:
Right! If the OT does not specifically call 1st and 7th ULB a Sabbath we have no authority to arbitrarily call them a Sabbath. And as I have shown, preparing and cooking food is specifically permitted on 1st and 7th ULB therefore neither had or required a day of preparation.
There was only one Sabbath in passion week, the weekly Sabbath and there was only one "Parasceue," which means "preparation," and that was the day before the weekly Sabbath.
If there were 2 Sabbaths there would have been 2 "parasceue"/preparation and to distinguish between them the author's would have had to identify which one they were talking about at any given time.

Justin [A.D. 110-165.] The First Apology. Chap. LXVII.
… And on the day called Sunday,76 all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability,77 and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given,78 and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. ***
But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.

The 1st and 7th of the Feast Unleavened bread is still a Holy day to the Lord. Just as the weekly Sabbath day on the seventh day of the week is a Holy day to the Lord. They all Holy Days unto the Lord, in Leviticus 23rd chapter. Just because if doesn't have Sabbath by that Feast doesn't mean that it's not a High Holy Sabbath day. You can play that game if you want, I'm out of that...lol.

Der Alte said:
But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.

Jesus didn't tell Paul that, because Paul taught the Gentiles much time after the death of Jesus on the Sabbath day. Now lets take a look at; (Acts 13:13-15, 42, 44) (v.13) Now when Paul and his company loosed from Pa’-phus, they came to Per’-ga in Pam-phyl’-I-a: and John departing from them returned to Jerusalem. (v.14) But when they departed from Per’-ga, they came to An’-ti-och in Pi-sid’-I-a, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down. Paul went into the church (synagogue) on the sabbath day the seventh day not the first day (Sunday). (v.15) And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, Ye men and brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on. (v.42) And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

The Gentiles didn’t asked Paul to come preach us something different next Sunday. They wanted Paul to preach to them the same thing that he taught the Jews, the next sabbath. Even the Gentiles knew that if they were going to serve the same God that Paul and the Jews (Israelites) served that they would have to serve him on the day that God had set up. (v.42) And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God. Not the next Sunday but the next sabbath.

Paul says in Hebrews 13: 8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Sabbath on the seventh day didn't change. You can't do something out of the Bible that's not written for you to do, then use the Bible to justify it. That's wrong on so many levels.

Yeshua HaDerekh · Mar 29, 2021

Bro.T said:
Cannot Get 3 Days And 3 Nights

According to tradition, if Jesus had died on Friday, He would have been in the grave Friday night, Saturday day and Saturday night. One would not count Sunday because in John (20:1) it states that the 1st day of the week which is Sunday, Mary came to the grave site when it was still dark. In Luke (24:1-6) They find that the stone which was placed in front of the sepulcher had been removed and an angel tells them that Jesus had already risen.

We do not need to! How many times do we have to keep telling you something?!?!?!?!?! You keep ignoring the timeline the eyewitnesses gave on the road to Emmaus...ignoring it is understandable since it proves your timeline wrong...

Yeshua HaDerekh · Mar 29, 2021

HARK! said:
Nice strawman.

I didn't make an assertion. I presented a supposition. That supposition seeks to provide an explanation for the words of Messiah. However you assertion works to explain away the words of Messiah.

I'll ponder my supposition until at which time a better one is revealed.

It is not a strawman. You say He rose on the Sabbath. The eyewitnesses on the road to Emmaus prove a timeline like that wrong.

HARK! · Mar 29, 2021

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
It is not a strawman. You say He rose on the Sabbath.

Would you care to quote me on that?

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
The eyewitnesses on the road to Emmaus prove a timeline like that wrong.

You have not demonstratively proven this.

Yeshua HaDerekh · Mar 29, 2021

HARK! said:
Would you care to quote me on that?
You have not demonstratively proven this.

That is what you implied, correct? If not then state it! I don't need to prove it, the eyewitnesses on the road to Emmaus already did...

HARK! · Mar 29, 2021

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
That is what you implied, correct? If not then state it!

I already stated my position in post# 509.

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
I don't need to prove it, the eyewitnesses on the road to Emmaus already did...

Mentioning the name of a road, and declaring it to be proof is not a demonstration of the facts.

Would you care to present a logical argument for your position?

klutedavid · Mar 29, 2021

Bro.T said:
Cannot Get 3 Days And 3 Nights
Now despite the fact that Jesus Himself said that He would be in the grave 3 days and 3 nights, man has come up with the tradition of Jesus dying on Good Friday and rising early Sunday morning.

What happens if the church tradition is true?

In following this tradition, not only does one not observe one of God's Holy Days, which is the Passover, they directly deny the words of Jesus. It was Jesus who gave the sign of being in the grave 3 days and 3 nights. The tradition of Good Friday and Easter clearly does not line up with scripture. Because following this tradition the maximum one has Jesus in the grave is 1 day and 2 nights.

That is an extremely long day you have there '1 day and 2 nights'.

Jesus in the tomb on the preparation day. Day 1

Jesus in the tomb on the Sabbath day. Day 2

Jesus in the tomb on Sunday night and rises before Mary arrives, Sunday morning. Day 3

Jesus in the tomb for three days and two nights.

We also know that Jesus rose on that third day and not after the third day and third night. This alone proves; that Jesus was not in the tomb for the full three days and nights.

As far as I am concerned, the scripture and church tradition together seals the deal.

klutedavid · Mar 29, 2021

HARK! said:
Would you care to quote me on that?

You have not demonstratively proven this.

Jesus rose on the third day. Not after the third day and third night.

Matthew 16:21
From that time Jesus began to show His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised up on the third day.

Matthew 17:23
And they will kill Him, and He will be raised on the third day. And they were deeply grieved.

Matthew 20:19
And will hand Him over to the Gentiles to mock and scourge and crucify Him, and on the third day He will be raised up.

Jesus did not rise after the third day but during the third day.

HARK! · Mar 29, 2021

klutedavid said:
Jesus rose on the third day. Not after the third day and third night.

Matthew 16:21
From that time Jesus began to show His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised up on the third day.

Matthew 17:23
And they will kill Him, and He will be raised on the third day. And they were deeply grieved.

Matthew 20:19
And will hand Him over to the Gentiles to mock and scourge and crucify Him, and on the third day He will be raised up.

Jesus did not rise after the third day but during the third day.

On which days and nights, by your estimation, was he in the earth?

(CLV) Mt 12:40
For even as Jonah was in the bowel of the sea monster three days and three nights, thus will the Son of Mankind be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.

Yeshua HaDerekh · Mar 29, 2021

HARK! said:
I already stated my position in post# 509.

Mentioning the name of a road, and declaring it to be proof is not a demonstration of the facts.

Would you care to present a logical argument for your position?

So your position is that you do not know. So why are you arguing with me then? I have presented a logical argument in this thread about 50 times it seems...go read it

The Death and True Resurrection of Jesus.

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