Ashli Babbitt

TheBear said:

There are all kinds of relevant facts. I don't know them all, nor do you. What I'd like to see are all the facts and all questions answered....the results of a full investigation.

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Having seen the video and a good general knowledge of the events around her shooting, I don't see why this is a question. The officer was tasked with keeping Congress safe, may have even been given the order to make sure no one gets past that point and to use lethal force. Even if not, it clearly was justified since it looks like just that officer was near the door at that point.

We are talking about people tasked with protecting our government reps. And you are asking for a full investigation for someone doing their job?

Albion said:

No matter what happens, no matter how much the same they are, we can expect the excuse to be that the weather that day was not the same as it was on January 6, therefore..."not comparable."



Watch: Antifa Stages Violent Riot At Oregon State Capitol, Attack Vehicles & Passerby’s – 1791 Times

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We're discussing when exactly they should be shot and my position is when they break in.

TheBear said:

There are all kinds of relevant facts. I don't know them all, nor do you. What I'd like to see are all the facts and all questions answered....the results of a full investigation.

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Not a chance, not when the media and deep state immediately back up whatever scenario the people they favor choose to fabricate and promote.

If there had been the willingness to do what you are suggesting, there wouldn't have been the avalanche of excuses and personal attacks directed at anyone who so much as suggested that the election of 2020 should be thoroughly investigated to see what actually happened. Not overturned, but just looked into so that everyone would know for sure what happened and the country be at ease with that.

variant said:

We're discussing when exactly they should be shot and my position is when they break in.

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I know. First comes the claim that only "comparable" events are under consideration. But then, when it is shown that there ARE comparable circumstances, the excuse has to be adjusted. Soon, I expect it to be that the people involved, doing essentially the same thing, were dressed differently or held signs that were spelled differently or something else as ridiculous as that. This was the point of my post anyway.

Albion said:

I know. First comes the claim that only "comparable" events are under consideration. But then, when it is shown that there ARE comparable circumstances, the excuse is forced to find something else. Soon I expect it to be that the people involved, doing essentially the same thing, were dressed differently or held signs that were spelled differently or something else as ridiculous as that. This was the point of my post anyway.

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If people are breaking into federal buildings as a mob they should be unsurprised when some of them end up dead.

My position dosen't change for folks I might sympathize with.

Some people seem to think they are entitled to beat down the doors of Congress with an American flag, but I'm not in the camp that's going to defend it.

variant said:

Some people seem to think they are entitled to beat down the doors of Congress with an American flag, but I'm not in the camp that's going to defend it.

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I guess not, but we do see the issue being changed as these posts have moved along. No one has advocated any beating down of the doors of Congress with an American flag or defending such a thing, so it's pretty safe to oppose that.

TheBear said:

Does the video answer questions about Capitol Police use of force training and protocol? Does the video answer questions about the officer's background with Capitol Police, such as previous disciplinary reports? Does the video show that anyone's life was in immediate threat of death?

I could go on with many other, unanswered questions. Of course, sitting over there in the UK, where the police are arresting people for the mere act of wrong-think, I can understand why these and other questions would not even come to mind. After all, with an authoritarianism mindset, such questioning would be unthinkable.

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There was a full investigation by an outside agency which found the shooting justified, and the fact that the USA for DC still hasn't made an official decision says to me that he is still investigating as well.

TheBear said:

Does the video answer questions about Capitol Police use of force training and protocol? Does the video answer questions about the officer's background with Capitol Police, such as previous disciplinary reports? Does the video show that anyone's life was in immediate threat of death?

I could go on with many other, unanswered questions. Of course, sitting over there in the UK, where the police are arresting people for the mere act of wrong-think, I can understand why these and other questions would not even come to mind. After all, with an authoritarianism mindset, such questioning would be unthinkable.

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Now you are going on about training and use of force? Now you are taking up the BLM cry of police brutality and authoritarianism?

It is clear the Capital police, the D.C. police, and the Secret Service all had different lines for lethal force. Many of those lines were crossed and many of the police decided not to use lethal force in many cases, even when it seemed like it was justified since their life was threatened. I am not surprised that someone got shot in this, I am surprised that only one did.

This was not an ordinary riot, this was an attempt to "Stop the steal" of the election. Which was an attempt to break our democracy. What did they think was going to happen when they got to representatives of Congress? Convince them to vote Trump in by asking?

I don't see how asking for a full investigation, which to my understanding a review has already been done, is going to do anything other than score political points in this case.

That is why I am calling this gaslighting, trying to make her look innocent and the agent look like an armed thug.

Arcangl86 said:

There was a full investigation by an outside agency which found the shooting justified...

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That really doesn't change much of anything about this event. And certainly not if we compare it with similar incidents, which was (yes it was) part of the discussion here.

Albion said:

I guess not, but we do see the issue being changed as these posts have moved along. No one has advocated any beating down of the doors of Congress with an American flag or defending such a thing, so it's pretty safe to oppose that.

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It was taking place a few feet away from where Babbitt was climbing through a broken window in an effort to breach that barricade.

That's the moment she was shot.

Each of the people there were taking the risk of a lethal response. They seemed to think the police owed them their own way.

It's not too suprising as the police guarding the door had just politely stood aside.

variant said:

It was taking place a few feet away from where Babbitt was climbing through a broken window in an effort to breach that barricade.

That's the moment she was shot.

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Okay, and that justifies being shot dead?? She was climbing, unarmed, through a window? Is that the point you are making?

Even if it is your point...

This is not what happens when other government personnel and buildings, capitols included, have been attacked--and by much more threatening and violent and numerous attackers.

But there appears to be little chance that such an obvious imbalance is going to be addressed or even acknowledged on this thread.

Albion said:

Okay, and that justifies being shot dead?? She was climbing, unarmed, through a window? Is that the point you are making?

Even if it is your point...

This is not what happens when other government personnel and buildings, capitols included, have been attacked--and by much more threatening and violent and numerous attackers.

But there appears to be little chance that such an obvious imbalance is going to be addressed or even acknowledged on this thread.

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It will happen eventually in any riot situation where the rioters are actually threatening to over run protections for lawmakers.

At some point they are going to put it to an end to it through force or we get to see what the rioters were after.

If you watched the tapes you saw exactly where they drew the line.

variant said:

It will happen eventually in any riot situation where the rioters are actually threatening to over run protections for lawmakers.

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Well, it hasn't. So that claim is a complete non-starter.

Albion said:

Well, it hasn't. So that claim is a complete non-starter.

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It will happen every time. What you're complaining about is the rioters getting to the line and crossing it.

TheBear said:

You bet! It goes directly to the questions of use of force escalation. Does his training and protocol direct him to go immediately to lethal force in this situation, or did he panic, bypass the use of force protocol, and go directly to lethal force? This is a question, among others, that the videos don't answer.

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Nice cut out of the rest of my post, since it questions your sincerity here.

And I do think all police training and use of force rules need to be looked at, I think it is odd that the shooting of someone looking to disrupt the business of the government in verifying the election and changing that vote to start to question these rules.

NxNW said:

Now you're changing the subject.

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Is the subject not whether or not lethal force is was necessary in the event a violent mob converge on a capital building with the intent to overthrow it? My apologies.

Albion said:

Okay, and that justifies being shot dead?? She was climbing, unarmed, through a window? Is that the point you are making?

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She was a traitor to her country and she got shot while posing a threat to elected officials in an attempt to overthrow a democratic election . She got exactly what traitors should expect.

If you don't like that, then that sucks for you. Maybe spend a bit less time worrying about traitors in future.

Kentonio said:

She was a traitor to her country and she got shot while posing a threat to elected officials in an attempt to overthrow a democratic election

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Tell it to someone who hasn't heard that line before and also is likely to believe tall tales.