20 major reasons to reject the Premillennial doctrine

Jeffwhosoever said:

Are you a preterist then I assume? You realize a lot of biblical scholars with doctorate degrees in New Testament theology all disagree with your view and every other view. There is no "slam dunk" interpretation of Revelation.

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Are you asking me this? You do not quote anybody.

Moriah's Song said:

Let's let scripture speak for themselves....

VERSES RE: THE NEW COVENANT IN BLOOD​

Q- Which one of these verses about the New Covenant being sealed with the blood of the cross do you deny as being a present reality? In fact, all of the covenants with God were sealed in blood as atonement for sins beginning with Abel's offering of his sheep in Gen 4:4? The New Covenant is an eternal promise as well as a present reality (Take special note of the word "is".) If anyone denies the truth of one, they deny the truth of all of them.

Ex 24:8 - So Moses took the blood and sprinkled it on the people, and said, “Behold the blood of the Covenant, which the Lord has made with you in accordance with all these words.” (Heb 9:20)

Jer 31:31 - “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a New Covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, (fulfilled in Acts 2:14,22 & Heb 8:8-12)

Zec 9:11 -"As for you also, because of the blood of My Covenant with you, I have set your prisoners free from the waterless pit. (Heb 10:29)

Mat 26:28 "...for this is My blood of the Covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins. (Ex 24:6-8)

• Mark 14:24 - And He said to them, “This is My blood of the Covenant, which is poured out for many.
• Luke 22:20 - And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup which is poured out for you is the New Covenant in My blood.
• 1 Cor 11:25 - In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.”

Rom 3:25 "...whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;

Eph 2:12 - "...remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the Covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

Heb 7:22 - "...so much the more also Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant.

Heb 9:14-16 "...how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? For this reason He is the mediator of a New Covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the First Covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. For where a covenant is, there must of necessity be the death of the one who made it.

Heb 9:18 - Therefore even the First Covenant was not inaugurated without blood. (Gen 4:2-4)

Heb 9:20 "...saying, “This is the blood of the Covenant which God commanded you.” (Ex 24:8)

Heb 9:22 - And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

Heb 10:29 - How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the Covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?

Heb 12:24 "...and to Jesus, the mediator of a New Covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.

Heb 13:2 "...Now the God of peace, who brought up from the dead the great Shepherd of the sheep through the blood of the Eternal Covenant, even Jesus our Lord,

Heb 13:20 "...Now the God of peace, who brought up from the dead the great Shepherd of the sheep through the blood of the Eternal Covenant, even Jesus our Lord,

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These are irrefutable. There is no rebuttal to them. They are the Word of God.

keras said:

All of Isaiah 33:1-12 is about the Lords Day of fiery wrath, which will burn up the ungodly peoples in the holy Land like chaff and leave the Land deserted.
Then; Isaiah 33:13-24, is about how His people from afar off will look to Zion and all the Lord's faithful [Christian] people will live there, as many other prophesies attest. Isaiah 35:1-10, Romans 9:24-26, +
THEN the sins of of the people who live there will be pardoned.

As for 'clear and explicit teaching' that the new Covenant was made at the Cross, or Pentecost, or is in force now; I do not see it. Many verses say how the Blood of Jesus is His part of it, but none of then say it is operational now.
We simply do not experience the full extent of the things listed in Hebrews 8:10-12

Why can't you explain how God treats any sins we may commit now?

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Are you going to address the biblical evidence or keep avoiding it?

Timtofly said:

There will be some in the Millennium who will have offspring at 20, as normal. Adam's descendants lived in sin and were cursed by God. How do you explain millions just resurrected after all humanity had just been eradicated, even in a new heaven and earth scenario obtain billions and billions of offspring? Also those in glorified bodies are permanently incapable of offspring and are like the angels, can only do God's will. They cannot rebel and produce rebellious offspring.

No where does God claim to create a new Adam and Eve to populate the earth. The Revelation 20:4 resurrection is not only of Israel, but would be some from every tribe and Nation.

Adam in sin had many descendants while living 900 years. Millions on a regenerated earth without sin are going to have billions more offspring after 900 years without war, famine, and plague. Of course even then, if nations like Egypt hold out, will be cursed for a time. If people are still viewed as cursed, that is not a new reality. Being cursed is still part of current phenomenon.

While death is not a thing, being under an iron rod indicates one immediately is sent to Death. Their names immediately removed from the Lamb's book of life. Rebellion will not be tolerated. None of these facts take away from understanding eternity nor eternal life. The new reality does away with the whole sin economy phenomenon as well as death by sin. That we can experience this condition now, does not negate it's full reality later.

There is not even the ability now of an army marching from any where to the middle east in the billions. How can this be explained away as current human population cannot allow it. Nor will Satan be in the NHNE. He will be in the Lake of Fire.

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Where do these millions of people on your millennial earth come from? Are they glorified? In one breath you say glorified saints cannot have offspring and in the next you have them reproducing billions of children for a thousand years? This does not add up.

Are these believers or unbelievers?

You say there are no wicked on your so-called future earth and yet you overrun your millennium with billions. Nothing here adds up. It seems like you are winging it!

Timtofly said:

I keep posting the church has nothing to do with the millennium. Not sure why this statement is ignored, and the same questions are asked over and over again, ignoring this simple fact.

The First Resurrection is a physical resurrection type. It is not a point in time. First when it comes to birth, death, and resurrection is only physical. There is nothing spiritual about the first in this regard. A soul has to have a physical birth. A soul in Adam's fallen condition has to have a physical death. There is also a physical resurrection. All these are defined by the word "first".

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The reason why your position is as clear as mud is that you refuse to answer simple questions. Please address my queries.

Timtofly said:

Revelation 19 and 20 is not about the church. You have to prove that point. Not me.

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Not so! Every time your beliefs are exposed you start fudging the issues and avoiding the simple questions.

Where do these millions of people on your millennial earth come from? Are they glorified? In one breath you say glorified saints cannot have offspring and in the next you have them reproducing billions of children for a thousand years? This does not add up.

Are these believers or unbelievers?

You say there are no wicked on your so-called future earth and yet you overrun your millennium with billions. Nothing here adds up. It seems like you are winging it!

Timtofly said:

Revelation 19 and Revelation 20 is not about the church. The church is not on earth procreating life. The church is not on earth. How close Paradise is is not given.

Do you claim the church sits on thrones, judges themselves and declares themselves the new rulers on earth? It would help if you explained your points instead of putting words in my post that are not there.

Why do you keep attacking me, instead of just having a normal conversation?

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If these millennial mortals are not saved then they will be destroyed when Jesus comes. Check out and address what the Book states instead of always voicing your opinions.

No one survives the day of the Lord (the one and only coming of Christ).

Joel 2:1-3 says, “for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations. A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.”

This fiery day of complete destruction is an impending day (“it is nigh at hand”) that will evidently destroy this planet. The appearance of Christ will leaven nothing of corruption standing. Joel 2:4-5 continues, “The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run. Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble.”

Joel 2:10-11: “The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining: And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?”

This text finishes with a question – a rhetorical question. That means the answer is plain and obvious. No one will survive this glorious climatic event.

His face manifests the shikinah of God. Whilst the Premillennialist accepts that the earth flees from His glory at the end of Satan’s little season it negates that reality at His second coming. Is His glory any different? Why didn't the heavens and the earth flee from His face then? After all, the brightness of His coming should hardly be diminished at any time. Scripture would see to locate the fulfilment of Revelation 20:11 at the second coming of the Lord Jesus.

Jesus said in Luke 17:26-30, “as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.”

The plain focus of this teaching in Luke 17 (reference Noah and Lot’s day) is the nature and degree of the judgment that befell the wicked in these two familiar Old Testament stories and especially the extent of that particular wrath. The key element and major emphasis of this discourse is the fact (speaking of the ungodly) that God “destroyed them all.” The comprehensive destruction of the wicked in both of these examples is the important lesson of the narrative; both the whole world of Noah’s day and the whole individual city of Sodom in Lot’s day saw the immediate and complete rescue of the entire righteous coupled together with the immediate and complete destruction of the entire wicked.

Christ plainly and purposefully advanced these two days, where the righteous were graciously rescued just prior to the full annihilation of the wicked, in order to vividly portray the nature and scope of the day of His wrath at the second coming. He deliberates and graphically connected the happenings of both these former days of judgment to the day of His return. Jesus succinctly said, “Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed” (Luke 17:30).

After speaking of the “days of Noe” and the “days of Lot,” the Lord then describes a singular “day” when the righteous were rescued and the wicked were destroyed. Whilst the Lord presents the rebellion and debauchery that preceded both of these judgments as a sign of how things will exist prior to the day of His all-consummating appearing, the main focus of His teaching relates to the focus and scale of the wrath which did fall on these two solemn days of destruction and how they accurately reflect what will happen at the second coming. Both individually and jointly, they supply us with a stunning insight into the nature of the actual day that Christ’s returns and to the days that precede His glorious Second Coming. In their substance and importance these two Old Testament days are distinct and unique. And whilst the nature of the judgment and geographical extent of both appreciably varies, brought-together, they graphically represent (1) the type of catastrophe coming, and (2) the scale of the destruction at the end. Scripture nowhere separates in time the gathering of the Lord's people to Himself with the destruction of the wicked.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:3 confirms this saying: “we which are alive and remain unto the coming (parousia) of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.”

This coming is not only sudden but noisy. Christ is not coming secretly with an apologetic whisper but publicly with a triumphant shout. He appears with “with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God.” This trumpet will sound and bring forth the elect from all nations. I Thessalonians 5:2-7 confirms that it isn’t just Christ’s coming that is sudden but also the destruction that accompanies. Likening Christ’s return to “a thief in the night” capably serves to impress the surprising nature of this Coming for the lost. It shows that the wicked are caught abruptly in their folly at the apocalypse. The “sudden destruction” is so impactful that none escape. That is explicit in the narrative. The wicked are totally and completely destroyed, allowing no room for the Pretrib theory of a subsequent 7yrs trib.

II Thessalonians 1:4-10 records: “we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure: Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer: Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.”

The Holy Spirit could hardly have made this more water-tight: men either know God or they don't. To know God is eternal life (John 17:3). This was also the case in Noah and Lot's day. Nothing has changed. If humans know Him, they are rescued at His return, if they do not know Him, they are destroyed. Simple! Premils have no problems with this reality when it comes to Noah and Lot's day. They only get awkward and pedantic when it comes to the second coming, because it negates their doctrine. They feel the need to diminish the scale and timing of the destruction in order to populate their alleged future millennial earth.

2 Peter 3:3-13 couldn't be clearer: “Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming (parousia)? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”

How can anyone survive this? They do not!

The sixth seal totally demolishers the Premillennial scheme. It shows the conflagration and the destruction of all the wicked. This relays the Amil position. Let us look at the text in Revelation 6:12-17, says, “And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; and the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?”

This is the time of God's final wrath upon the earth. The wicked are so afraid of their impending doom that they want the mountains and rocks to fall on them. Think about this: being crushed by mountains and rocks appeals more to them than facing God's wrath. No wicked will survive this.

Once again, this text finishes with a rhetorical question. The obvious answer (to those who do not have their own theological agenda) is that no one will survive this climatic event.

Revelation 6:12-17 depicts the conflagration that accompanies the return of Christ. It sees the regeneration of this earth and the destruction of all the wicked. This agrees with multiple Scripture.

· The sun became black
· The moon became as blood
· The stars of heaven fell unto the earth,
· The heaven departs like a scroll
· Every mountain and island are moved out of their places

This is talking about the topography of the physical earth and starry host being totally transformed. This occurs at the climactic return of Christ.

Scripture shows Jesus one and only coming to be totally climactic. When Jesus comes that is it - caught up or caught on, saved or lost, eternal bliss or eternal torment. It is the end. No one survives (see above).

Timtofly said:

Your opinion. Yet you do not want me to give you my opinion.

This is in response to your quote:

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Once again you avoid the inspired text. Obviously that is because it exposes your opinions. Multiple verses are rejected to let your beliefs survive.

Timtofly said:

Jesus said He was coming to earth and will be here a few months if not years:

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Jesus brings the angels and Trumpets with Him to earth. The earth is not destroyed, and John goes into more details in Revelation 8-10. The 6th Seal is the Second Coming. I agree with you. It is the end of many things. I agree. It is not the end of life at that moment. John claims a lot more events take place. Jesus claims He brings the Trumpets and the angels. That is not my opinion. John explains how those angels and Trumpets work. Why is no one pointing this out?

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Your chronological theory on Revelation falls apart in numerous ways. Let us look at one example: Revelation 10:1-3 says, “And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire: And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth, And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.”

The symbolism and authority surrounding this great heavenly angel proves beyond a doubt that it is none other than the Lord Jesus Christ and a picture of His glorious Second Coming. We will the symbolism shortly.

Revelation 10:5-7 says of the Second Advent and the concluding last trumpet, “And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.”

There is clearly a major dilemma here for you those who take Revelation to be a literal chronological unfolding of last day events. They must surely concede, if they are going to be consistent with their view that everything after Revelation 11 (which also refers to the seventh trumpet) is in the realm of eternity and the after-life. After all Revelation 10 plainly records that with this particular event “there should be time no longer.” For those who would lightly dismiss this important narrative as anything other than a magnificent picture of the Lord Jesus Christ and His glorious second coming, they do foolishly ignore the great wealth of explicit and consistent end-time teaching on this subject and divorce the undoubted harmony of this chapter from the rest of New Testament prophetic teaching.

This is the end of the old temporal sin-cursed order and the introduction of the new eternal glorified order. Also, the undoubted finality surrounding the echo of the seventh trumpet proves beyond doubt that it is the last trump – the final trumpet sound for all mankind. “The kingdoms of this world” have finally “become the kingdoms of our lord, and of his Christ” and “he shall reign” not for 1000 years as some would have us believe but “for ever and ever.” Those who reject such evidence do so (in the main) in order to support the Preterist, Pretribulationist or Historist positions.

The King James Version interprets the passage correctly and in context: chronos ouketi estai – literally meaning: Time – no longer – there shall be’!!!

The whole import and wording of the remainder of the passage perfectly supports the King James Version rendering and confirms the all-consummating nature of the Second Advent, which says, “when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be etelesthee (or) finished.” It should be noted that the word etelesthee is a very strong all-consummating word that is rightly translated ‘finished’ in this reading and is consistently interpreted: completed, concluded, expired and accomplished.

Revelation 11:15: “And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.”

Verse 18 then reveals how the Second Advent ushers in the general judgment, saying, “And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest (1) give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest (2) destroy them which destroy the earth. And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.”

This is the end of the old temporal sin-cursed order and the introduction of the new eternal glorified order. Also, the undoubted finality surrounding the echo of the seventh trumpet proves beyond doubt that it is the last trump – the final trumpet sound for all mankind. “The kingdoms of this world” have finally “become the kingdoms of our lord, and of his Christ” and “he shall reign” not for 1000 years as some would have us believe but “for ever and ever.” Those who reject such evidence do so (in the main) in order to support the Pretribulationist doctrine.

At the last trumpet, Christ will “reward” the saints and “destroy” the wicked. It is “the time of the dead, that they should be judged.” One wonders how anyone could not see a general resurrection of the dead here in order to enable a general judgment.