Did Jesus lust ???

2BeholdHisGlory

Still on vacation!
Mar 20, 2021
823
414
Outer Space
✟11,791.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I don't see passages where "lust" is used positively, always negatively.
So it's very clear when "lust" differs from when "desire" is used.

Hey there Paul 4JC they aparently exist, for example this word (see links)

avvah H183
....
desire, lust, will (not necessarily evil)
From here, Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon

Used once here for example

Duet 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after H183, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

And elsewhere, like Deut 12:18, Deut 12:20, Deut 12:21

But sometimes its not so clear between lust and desire even when two different words are used in one verse showing a word found in the definition of the other but they are not the same words even though the are used identically. The defintion adds "not neccessarily evil) so they are are not always used for evil all the time.

Even covet (which is used interchangably with lust) you can covet good things not always evil, there are good desires and evil desires.
 
Upvote 0

Pavel Mosko

Arch-Dude of the Apostolic
Supporter
Oct 4, 2016
7,236
7,312
56
Boyertown, PA.
✟768,575.00
Country
United States
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Jesus wasn't tempted.
satan tried and failed in this regard.

...here Jesus, can I offer you a tempting portion of greed? lust? pride? envy? sinful selfishness? hedonism? blasphemy? Don't you even want to try just a tiny sample? You might like it.

*rolls eyes*

NO roll eyes at yourself. It looks like you do not understand what tempted is! The Bible says he was "tempted" numerous times.

FYI - Your objection comes from how people sometimes use that term idiomatically today for fantasizing or coveting something, rather than how the Bible uses it (simply having a thought or impulse, which is different than responding or indulging those kinds of thoughts, feelings etc.).


Hebrews 4:15

For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.




Matthew 4:1-11
Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. And after He had fasted forty days and forty nights, He then became hungry. And the tempter came and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.”




Mark 1:13

And He was in the wilderness forty days being tempted by Satan; and He was with the wild beasts, and the angels were ministering to Him.



Luke 4:1-13
Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led around by the Spirit in the wilderness for forty days, being tempted by the devil. And He ate nothing during those days, and when they had ended, He became hungry. And the devil said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, tell this stone to become bread.”



Hebrews 2:18
For since He Himself was tempted in that which He has suffered, He is able to come to the aid of those who are tempted.

Hebrews 4:15-16
For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin. Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

2BeholdHisGlory

Still on vacation!
Mar 20, 2021
823
414
Outer Space
✟11,791.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
My thoughts. A strange thread how it's put by the way.

I think the real question is could Jesus potentially have been tempted to as it's said to "lust'?

Even that can be misleading as I've seen some here even think being tempted is that one has somehow crossed some line into almost nearly having it be a difficult thing for them to rise above?

One thing we do know is that Matt 4:1 states that Jesus was led by the Spirit to be tempted. Being tempted isn't the same thing as an individual almost having a desire for it or wanting it. Being tempted in the context of Matt 4:1 simply means he was presented with it, that is by the devil. That is not sin that is of the one it's presented to. I think many saints have got under false condemnation from the devil for the say this thought came to my mind......and if I'm a good Christian why would such a thought even come? The devil has a right to present certain things. We can reject them immediately however as Jesus did. Jesus even said the devil he could find nothing in him. John 14:30

For one thing Jesus was consumed with the word of God we know IT WAS his continual mediation. John 2:47 states that even at 12 year of age Jesus knew more about the word of God then teachers in his day. I suspect things like Psalm 119 he delighted in.....every verse about what they what the word of God should mean to a person. So the question is was Jesus tempted with anything men could have been. The answer is YES and NO depending on what you mean? Being presented with temptation from the devil actually took place because Matt 4:1 says it was! You'd have to change the Bible to say it wasn't. Lust for worldly power was actually one of the devil's temptations. Was Jesus ACTUALLY and really tempted by it? NO. His heart was fixed trusting in the Lord. You can see this is the sign of a righteous man who is committed in Psalm 112. Fixed in that context means locked in, it's settled. So YES Jesus was tempted, BUT....NO he really was not.

I agree, thats how I see it, Jesus was led by the Spirit TO BE TEMPTED (by the devil). Saying Jesus was tempted as if that he was tempted in himself to do the evil the tempter was "tempting him towards", thats a wrong view IMO. But he still was "being tempted" by the tempter himself (or the very attempts at tempting him were underway). Its not as though these things tempted Jesus (to bite on whatever the evil one was attempting to tempt him in/ or towards).

I find that hard to word, because you can acknowledge the tempting and the need to deny the tempting at the same time, because there was one DOING the tempting (the tempter) but Christ would not be tempted of evil (in the doing of it) but being tempted to do evil (by the evil one), if I put that right.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Paul4JC

the Sun of Righteousness will rise with healing
Apr 5, 2020
1,614
1,364
California
✟162,178.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Hey there Paul 4JC they aparently exist, for example this word (see links)

avvah H183
....
desire, lust, will (not necessarily evil)
From here, Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon

Used once here for example

Duet 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after H183, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

And elsewhere, like Deut 12:18, Deut 12:20, Deut 12:21

But sometimes its not so clear between lust and desire even when two different words are used in one verse showing a word found in the definition of the other but they are not the same words even though the are used identically. The defintion adds "not neccessarily evil) so they are are not always used for evil all the time.

Even covet (which is used interchangably with lust) you can covet good things not always evil, there are good desires and evil desires.


Only one out of dozens of versions translates it that way. KJV, NKJV fixes this error. (Unless your KJO. Then your saying all other versions are in error.)

Bible > Deuteronomy > Chapter 14 > Verse 26

Deuteronomy 14 :: New International Version (NIV)

Deuteronomy 14:26 - Bible Gateway

Deuteronomy English Translation of the Greek Septuagint Bible
 
Upvote 0

2BeholdHisGlory

Still on vacation!
Mar 20, 2021
823
414
Outer Space
✟11,791.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0

2BeholdHisGlory

Still on vacation!
Mar 20, 2021
823
414
Outer Space
✟11,791.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Only one out of dozens of versions translates it that way. KJV, NKJV fixes this error. (Unless your KJO. Then your saying all other versions are in error.)

What is the error exactly?

'avah means

desire, incline, covet, wait longingly, wish, sigh, want, be greedy, prefer




    • (Piel) to desire, crave (food and drink)
    • (Hithpael) to desire, long for, lust after (of bodily appetites)
5 versions (KJV, AKJV, KJ21, ASV,& BRC) simply use the words "lusteth" in the definition where the others use mostly desire, or wish or some other in it, which is what am saying, it doesn't mean the root word for the definition is in error or that the 5 versions that chose "lusteth over the word desire" is incorrect because they and others are included in the shown definition.

Which is fairly common in scripture for example

אָוָה ʼâvâh, aw-vaw'; a primitive root; to wish for:—covet, (greatly) desire, be desirous, long, lust (after).

Number of places this one is (variably) used is shown below

AVdesire 17, lust 4, longed 3, covet 2

This is just a small example, its common. Was keeping it simple

Editing this link in to show in the NT the same root word and three words "desire, lust and covet" and others being used in various places and in the context of good things as well as evil equally. You just need to scroll down to see the numbers and the verses showing them being used that way

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Lion IRC

Newbie
Sep 10, 2012
509
198
✟19,082.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
NO roll eyes at yourself. It looks like you do not understand what tempted is! The Bible says he was "tempted" numerous times.

The notion that "tempted" means... Jesus Himself felt the momentary allure of immoral activity - sin - is unthinkable. All the moreso unthinkable that you claim Jesus was tempted by temptation "numerous times". Lust? Are you serious?

The person who offers you drugs, adultery, ill-gotten wealth, immoral power and who attemps to seduce you is the TEMPTER. The noun temptation means...the thing which attempts to draw your desire. The verb 'to temp' means...the act of tempting.

I think it is you who are conflating tempted (past tense) with the false idea that Jesus WAS in fact tempted as opposed to...no He WAS NOT tempted by the idea of sinning against God.

satan was trying to lead Jesus into temptation. Do you seriously think Jesus did the very thing which The Lords Prayer says God wants us not to do...be lead into temptation?

Jesus was defying satan's attemp to lead Him into temptation. On no account was He tempted by satan's deceitful lies.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Pavel Mosko

Arch-Dude of the Apostolic
Supporter
Oct 4, 2016
7,236
7,312
56
Boyertown, PA.
✟768,575.00
Country
United States
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
The notion that "tempted" means... Jesus Himself felt the momentary allure of immoral activity - sin - is unthinkable. All the moreso unthinkable that you claim Jesus was tempted by temptation "numerous times". Lust? Are you serious?


Then you Lion IRC basically believe a heresy, (because you are saying that Jesus is only true God, and not also true Man aka the hypostatic union of the Nicaean Creed)


Apollinarism or Apollinarianism is a Christological concept proposed by Apollinaris of Laodicea (died 390) that argues that Jesus had a normal human body but a divine mind instead of a regular human soul. It was deemed heretical in 381 and virtually died out within the following decades.[1]


"Apollinaris, considering the rational soul or spirit as essentially liable to sin and capable, at its best, of only precarious efforts, saw no way of saving Christ's impeccability and the infinite value of Redemption, except by the elimination of the human spirit from Jesus' humanity, and the substitution of the Divine Logos in its stead. Apollinarism was declared to be a heresy in 381 by the First Council of Constantinople.[1]"
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

2BeholdHisGlory

Still on vacation!
Mar 20, 2021
823
414
Outer Space
✟11,791.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
His being tempted (by the devil) at every point (being our tried stone) and yet without sin wouldnt be denying the Word was made flesh. Even the scriptures tell us that if we walk by the Spirit we would not fulfil the lusts of the flesh.

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Those things are "of this world".
Whereas Jesus was in this world but he was not of it. He said, "I am not of the world".
His Father wasnt the devil that he would do the lusts of their father the devil
 
Upvote 0

Pavel Mosko

Arch-Dude of the Apostolic
Supporter
Oct 4, 2016
7,236
7,312
56
Boyertown, PA.
✟768,575.00
Country
United States
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
His being tempted (by the devil) at every point (being our tried stone) and yet without sin wouldnt be denying the Word was made flesh

It's not just "Being made flesh". It is also possessing a true human soul etc., to go with the Divinity part.

I had an online friend who summarized the problem well. He was a retired college professor of Philosophy that I knew for a few years on a Theology forum. My professor friend described some people's concept of Jesus as "God in a man suit" which pretty much is Apollinarism.


That concept is quite common. I've thought something like that myself at various times, especially after dealing with people who deny the Divinity of Christ. If you spend your time arguing with them, there is a temptation to go overboard on the other extreme emphasizing his Divinity where his humanity pretty much fades away.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

2BeholdHisGlory

Still on vacation!
Mar 20, 2021
823
414
Outer Space
✟11,791.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
It's not just "Being made flesh". It is also possessing a true human soul etc., to go with the Divinity part.

I had an online friend who summarized the problem well. He was a retired college professor of Philosophy that I knew for a few years on a Theology forum. My professor friend described some people's concept of Jesus as "God in a man suit" which pretty much is Apollinarism.


That concept is quite common. I've thought something like that myself at various times, especially after dealing with people who deny the Divinity of Christ. If you spend your time arguing with them, there is a temptation to go overboard on the other extreme emphasizing his Divinity where his humanity pretty much fades away.

God (who is divine) and who is Spirit refers to his own soul (which I would think was also divine) don't you think?

The LORD also has a soul (nephesh)

Judges 10:16 And they put away the strange gods from among them, and served the LORD: and his soul (nephesh) was grieved for the misery of Israel.

Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul (nephesh) delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Jerm 5:9 Shall I not visit for these things? saith the LORD: and shall not my soul (nephesh) be avenged on such a nation as this?

Jerm 5:29 Shall I not visit for these things? saith the LORD: shall not my soul (nephesh) be avenged on such a nation as this?

Jerm 6:8 Be thou instructed, O Jerusalem, lest my soul (nephesh) depart from thee; lest I make thee desolate, a land not inhabited.

Jerm 9:9 Shall I not visit them for these things? saith the LORD: shall not my soul (nephesh) be avenged on such a nation as this?

Psalm 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul (nephesh) hateth.
 
Upvote 0

Carl Emerson

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2017
14,667
9,977
78
Auckland
✟376,544.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0

Lion IRC

Newbie
Sep 10, 2012
509
198
✟19,082.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Then you Lion IRC basically believe a heresy,

Nope.
There's nothing heretical about asserting that Jesus never flirted with sin.
...was never tempted. Never felt temptation.

...you are saying that Jesus is only true God, and not also true Man aka the hypostatic union of the Nicaean Creed)

Nope.
Please use the quote function if you want to put words in my mouth.
 
Upvote 0

Pavel Mosko

Arch-Dude of the Apostolic
Supporter
Oct 4, 2016
7,236
7,312
56
Boyertown, PA.
✟768,575.00
Country
United States
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
God (who is divine) and who is Spirit refers to his own soul (which I would think was also divine) don't you think?

The LORD also has a soul (nephesh)

All that stuff is not the issue. Going back to my earlier comments with a "Lion IRC" poster in rebutting my earlier statement he speaking of Jesus said "he felt no allure for sin" or something like that. That kind of comment is potentially problematic because it hints the person may believe that Jesus did not have a human component to His personality (Part of the hypostatic union of the Nicene Creed).


This of course depends on what is meant by allure. It can mean anything from
1) Simply finding something attractive, or
2) as above but your imagination is really captivated about it, e.g. you fantasize about it etc.


I would say in various situations but especially times like the 40 days in the Wilderness, Gethsemane, that Christ found certain sin options alluring in the 1) sense of the word, e.g. being without food 40 days would make him ravenously hungry etc. but he never went beyond that of fantasizing, coveting etc. as far as 2).


Anyway if you suggest that not only did Christ never mentally sin (option 2), but he never ever felt the attraction for it that would have come via his flesh at times, then you are dealing with a different sort of humanity than what is professed in the Nicene Creed etc. Your concept of Jesus is "God in a Bod", as a certain pastor (Mark Driscoll) put it, aka - Apollinarism.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

2BeholdHisGlory

Still on vacation!
Mar 20, 2021
823
414
Outer Space
✟11,791.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married

Yes but how is that contradicting what he is saying? He was led by the Spirit TO BE tempted (by the tempter/the devil) it does not mean Jesus was tempted by the lusts of the devil or the lusts of the world that Jesus was in but not of. The act of temping him is present but Christ being tempted is shown in the Pharisees, showing just as the devil they too are tempting him but it does not mean Jesus was actually tempted.

James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man

So he does not tempt any man and cannot be tempted with evil and that just goes to show that Jesus was just led by the Spirit (he walked by) TO BE tempted BY THE DEVIL (not that he WAS tempted in himself to desire to do the evil but he was tempted by the evil one to do so.

Mat 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted
of the devil
.

He said even these were tempting him here

Luke 20:23 Is it lawful for us to give tribute unto Caesar, or no?
But he perceived their craftiness, and said unto them, Why tempt ye me?

Mark 12:15 Shall we give, or shall we not give? But he, knowing their hypocrisy,
said unto them, Why tempt ye me? bring me a penny, that I may see it.


Mat 19:3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him,
Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?


Mat 22:35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him,
and saying, Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

John 8:6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him.

Heb 12:3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself,
lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.


James 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried,
he
shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

Just as Jobs "temptation in his flesh", which was delivered to him by Satan (the boils God "allowed") God allowed Satan to go "thus far and no further" and the temptation "was delivered". By that I mean Satan's desire was made known to us, that if Job was struck with boils (in his flesh) that he (Job) would curse God to his face. So this one touch (by Satan) was betting against Job (to get him curse God). Since Satan was given permission for touching his flesh and bone we see his wife egging Job on "Dost thou retain thin integrity, curse God and die"! His own wife is also his flesh and bone who is speaking the words of the serpent to him. Job (unlike Adam) did not hearken unto the voice of his wife. So Job could be shown as being tempted to curse God and die right? But not really he rebukes that doing because its both Satan and his wife (who is being deceived) tempting him to do what he will not do. So just because Satan tempts with something does not mean that Jesus is tempted (in himself) to perform it but rather Jesus rebukes Satan even as Job rebukes his wife (who is also speaking Satans words) concerning sinning against God.
 
Last edited:
  • Winner
Reactions: Lion IRC
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Carl Emerson

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2017
14,667
9,977
78
Auckland
✟376,544.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The matter seems to be one of definition...

Jesus was led of the Spirit into the wilderness to be subject to the Temptor.

Because He didn't succumb to the Devils Godless suggestions one cant say He was not tempted as the Word clearly states that was the reason for His journey.

The issue is Satan does the tempting but Jesus does not buy into his Godless suggestions.

So He was subject to temptation but didnt sin.

In this sense He was tempted - we are similarly tempted and can choose not to be persuaded.

It is not sinful to be tempted.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Pavel Mosko
Upvote 0

2BeholdHisGlory

Still on vacation!
Mar 20, 2021
823
414
Outer Space
✟11,791.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The matter seems to be one of definition...

Jesus was led of the Spirit into the wilderness to be subject to the Temptor.

Because He didn't succumb to the Devils Godless suggestions one cant say He was not tempted as the Word clearly states that was the reason for His journey.

The issue is Satan does the tempting but Jesus does not buy into his Godless suggestions.

So He was subject to temptation but didnt sin.

In this sense He was tempted - we are similarly tempted and can choose not to be persuaded.

It is not sinful to be tempted.

But neither of us has been saying that, both of these are true

Jesus was led by the Spirit to be tempted by the devil (true)
but Jesus was not tempted by the same devil because the devils attempts at tempting him failed

They might sound contradictory but they are both true which is what we have been saying. Theres an act of tempting one (want some candy little boy) and the boy being tempted by the temper but when the boy does not "bite" because he feels no temptaion towards that evil beckoning him it holds true that although he was tempted (by another) he himself was still not tempted.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Carl Emerson

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2017
14,667
9,977
78
Auckland
✟376,544.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
But neither of us has been saying that, both of these are true

Jesus was led by the Spirit to be tempted by the devil (true)
but Jesus was not tempted by the same devil because the devils attempts at tempting him failed

They might sound contradictory but they are both true which is what we have been saying. Theres an act of tempting one (want some candy little boy) and the boy being tempted by the temper but when the boy does not "bite" because he feels no temptaion towards that evil beckoning him it holds true that although he was tempted (by another) he himself was still not tempted.

Mmmm...

but Jesus was not tempted by the same devil because the devils attempts at tempting him failed

Please explain what you meant...

Seriously I see a deviation from the classical definition of temptation.

To tempt means to entice to evil.

Jesus was subject to such enticement i.e. He was tempted. This does not mean He sinned - rather He resisted the temptation He was subject to.

The true definition of temptation does not carry over into succumbing.

Succumbing to temptation is a sin, being tempted is not.
 
Upvote 0