Bible stories, truth or fiction?

Par5

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Um...no.
God can stand by that one. It's His handiwork.
You gonna quibble with Him about what He can and can't do?
The Joshua story was at a time when people believed that the sun moved across the sky. For the sun to appear to remain motionless in the sky the earth would have to stop rotating.
Have you any idea what would happen if the earth suddenly stopped rotating?
 
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Paulomycin

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Pommer

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The Joshua story was at a time when people believed that the sun moved across the sky. For the sun to appear to remain motionless in the sky the earth would have to stop rotating.
Have you any idea what would happen if the earth suddenly stopped rotating?
Hence, “MIRACLE!”
 
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Pommer

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The sun DOES move across the sky from our perspective. Thats not an ancient 'belief'.
I'm not sure why the Earth would have to stop moving in order for the Sun to appear motionless.
Couldn't it be the other way around?
The star Sol moves through the Milky Way galaxy too; while, (yes), the Earth revolves around the Sun, the Earth doesn’t arrive at the same x,y,z coordinates from year to year.
 
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cloudyday2

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Okay enough with Samson.
Let’s move onto
Joshua 10:12-15
I have seen Christian documentaries where Joshua's Long Day is hypothesized to be a solar eclipse. A solar eclipse might be a morale booster for the Hebrews - especially if one of their deities was connected to the sun as the earlier link to Samson suggested ( Samson the Demigod? - TheTorah.com ).

Unfortunately for the eclipse hypothesis, the story suggests that whatever happened in the heavens provided extra time for the Hebrews to continue the battle and kill their fleeing enemies. I don't think a solar eclipse would do that, so acceptance of that hypothesis requires the reader to accept that the story is only loosely based on historical events.

There are also several connections between Joshua and the sun that might suggest worship of a deity connected to the sun. Joshua's burial place seems to have had its name changed to cover-up the connection to the sun ( Timnath-heres - Wikipedia ). The book "From Gods to God" by Shinon and Zakovitch had several paragraphs on the topic ( From Gods to God | The Jewish Publication Society )

Here is the wikipedia quote about the burial place:
In Joshua 19:49–50 and Joshua 24:30, the town is called Timnath-serah, whereas in Judges 2:9 it is named as Timnath-heres.

The name "Timnath-serah" signifies in Hebrew an "extra portion" or "portion of abundance". Similarly, the name "Timnath-heres" means "portion of the sun".[2] In the book of Joshua Chapter 24, verse 30; it is written in thirteen different published editions of the Old Testament as Timnath-Heres or some variation of it where the second word begins with an 'h', or 'H' and ends in 's', either with or without the intermediate dash. The inversion of "serah" to make "heres" has the connotation of sun, as in Job 9:7. Some allege[who?] that the figure of the sun was put on Joshua's monument, in commemoration of the miracle of the sun standing still for him.

In the Talmud the town is mentioned in Bava Batra 122b, where "heres" is translated as "earthenware," in reference to fruits in the area being as dry as earthenware prior to the arrival of Joshua.[3] The word's inversion, "serah" is defined as "rotting," that after Joshua's arrival, the fruits became so juicy that they could quickly rot.
Timnath-heres - Wikipedia
 
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Par5

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Pommer

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Never heard of him so of course, you are wrong to say that I must conclude he's some kind of backward anything!
Don’t forget about Sheldon Harnick (lyricist for Fiddler on the Roof) Sunrise, Sunset.
 
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Soyeong

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Some bible stories seem to be so outrageous that for many people they are just not credible.
There are those however who believe that every word of the bible is true and therefore every event recorded in that book is true.
One such story is that of Samson and his fight with the Philistines when he killed 1000 of them using nothing more than the jaw bone of an ass.
Do any of our CF posters really believe this event actually happened?
I have posted a link showing a clip from the Samson movie and his fight with the Philistines.
You could be excused for thinking it was a clip from The Incredible Hulk, and I could only begin to believe it was a true story if the Philistines were as inept at soldiering as the movie made them out to be.

Story can be works of fiction, yet still resonate with us because they contain important truths about the human condition, so the stories of the Bible can still be true even if they were works of fiction, so to some extent focusing on whether it actually happened is missing the point.
 
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Tinker Grey

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A story can be work of fiction, yet still resonate with us because they contain important truths about the human condition, so the stories of the Bible can still be true even if they were works of fiction, so to some extent focusing on whether it actually happened is missing the point.
QFT
 
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Lion IRC

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...focusing on whether it actually happened is missing the point.

Speaking of 'missing the point', the Op isn't challenging whether such verses might have a wider symbolic meaning, or might contain some sort of deeper spiritual truth about the human condition.

Bible skeptics seldom quibble with the person who says...oh, well, you see Judges 15:4 is all symbolic imagery and Samson merely dreamed that he had done such deeds...and 300 foxes with flaming tales is a metaphor for the three hundred cubits of the Ark which saved Noah's family from the judgement of God or Solomon's 300 golden shields...etc etc.

The counter-apologetic assertion here is that Samson never performed such a feat and the bible (Judges 15:4, Judges 15:15, ) isn't literally true.

a_Para2_400_311.jpg

...Out of the eater came forth meat, and out of the strong came forth sweet

And the reason atheists / bible skeptics go after such targets is because if you can pull enough threads...

loose_thread.png
 
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cloudyday2

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Yes. Omnipotence is capable of really unusual things. God sovereignly suspends any natural order He wishes. The central character of the entire book is an omnipotent being. You can't read the book through the bias of naturalism or uniformitarianism. You'll only choke on it.

And NASA still refers to "sunrise" and "sunset." It's about POV.
Quoting your words: "God sovereignly suspends any natural order He wishes."

Now consider the dialogue between Abraham and God in Genesis 18:23-25 ESV which concludes: "Shall not the Judge of all the earth do what is just?" ( Genesis 18:23–25 ESV - Then Abraham drew near… | Biblia )

My impression from my limited exposure to quantum mechanics is that there is a little wiggle room for God to intervene without suspending the natural order, but Joshua's Long Day seems to be asking too much. I don't think a God of order who created a natural order would willy-nilly suspend the natural order - particularly when His goals could be accomplished in other ways.
 
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Par5

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But you still suspect that I made my point, so you won't look into it any further. Correct?
If you meant that we all refer to the sunrise and sunset as being just that, there is nothing new there.
I googled Manley and I now know he is an astrophysicist, a DJ, and a You Tube personality.
Is there anything else you think I should know?
 
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Paulomycin

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If you meant that we all refer to the sunrise and sunset as being just that, there is nothing new there.
I googled Manley and I now know he is an astrophysicist, a DJ, and a You Tube personality.
Is there anything else you think I should know?

Thank you. The point being that we can still refer to our own orbit around the sun using terms derived entirely from our POV, and it doesn't make us as primitive as Joshua.
 
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Par5

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Thank you. The point being that we can still refer to our own orbit around the sun using terms derived entirely from our POV, and it doesn't make us as primitive as Joshua.
Yes, but Joshua actually believed the sun did stand still. Today we don't believe that happened. Well, most of us anyway.
 
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Par5

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This is a simple issue to me. An omnipotent God can make anything happen.
You know Brian, over the years I have heard many many times the words, "God did it", but I have yet to be shown evidence that the god you believe in did anything at all.
 
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