Daniel Marsh

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My point is both viewpoints have been purpose by human philosophy. And, discussing this all year will not resolve it. But, I do enjoy reading both side of a discussion. Is there a third viewpoint?
 
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Davy

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My point is both viewpoints have been purpose by human philosophy. And, discussing this all year will not resolve it. But, I do enjoy reading both side of a discussion. Is there a third viewpoint?

Where's your coverage of Jude 1:6-7...

Jude 6-7
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, He hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.


7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

KJV

All those ideas from men's commentaries and you forget the above proof about angels having left their habitation (residence), and their first estate (principality), and like those in Sodom and Gomorrah, went after strange flesh (different flesh).

Those are certainly angels Jude is talking about and not flesh men, and that is certainly pointing directly to the events in Genesis 6 when the "sons of God" took wives of the daughters of the man Adam (in the Hebrew, the KJV phrase "daughters of men" is Hebrew 'eth haa aadam', which is pointing specifically to the Adam which God formed in His Garden of Eden).
 
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Daniel Marsh

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Where's your coverage of Jude 1:6-7...

Jude 6-7
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, He hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.


7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

KJV

All those ideas from men's commentaries and you forget the above proof about angels having left their habitation (residence), and their first estate (principality), and like those in Sodom and Gomorrah, went after strange flesh (different flesh).

Those are certainly angels Jude is talking about and not flesh men, and that is certainly pointing directly to the events in Genesis 6 when the "sons of God" took wives of the daughters of the man Adam (in the Hebrew, the KJV phrase "daughters of men" is Hebrew 'eth haa aadam', which is pointing specifically to the Adam which God formed in His Garden of Eden).

I see Jude 6-7 as separate events. The angels at Sodom and Gomorrah did not sin. verse 6 is general enough to be referring to anything. Some of them could be part of the ones kicked out of Heaven when following Satan. Or they could be some of those of Genesis 6 if one takes that interpretation. Or they could be from some sin event not recorded in the Bible at all. The point being verse 6 is generic enough to fit any of those possibilities. Verse 7 refers to the events of Sodom and Gomorrah.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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As for quoting commentaries this shows without doubt that all interpretations are man made because it is fallible human beings doing the interpretations. You are a Human yourself and like it or not even your own interpretations are man made.
 
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There is a link between the Nephilim and Philistines.

Below the blue part does reference the Philistines, shows the areas they remained and the confrontations between David, and Samson with the same. The connection just apears to be their offspring.

Gen 6:3-4 <------------Giants (nĕphiyl) here at this marker

Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh:
yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

|-----------------------> vs 4 Giants (nĕphiyl) And after that also shown similarly before and after the same figure of years mentioned between them

Duet 34:7 And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died <--------------------|

Numbers 13:33 And there we saw the giants (nĕphiyl) the sons of Anak, which come of the giants (nĕphiyl) and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.

From hereon out they are mentioned as remaining in three places

Joshua 11:22 There was none of the Anakims (descendents of Anak) left in the land of the children of Israel: only in Gaza, in Gath, and in Ashdod, there remained.

Below showing their offspring as connected to the Philistines

Goliath of Gath where the descendents of Anak (which come of the giants/(nĕphiyl) remained Come out of the camp of the Philistines.

David slaying
the Philistine Goliath of Gath
(where the descendents of Anak remained)

1Sam 17:50 So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and with a stone, and smote the Philistine, and slew him; but there was no sword in the hand of David.

Samson also with the Philistines of Gaza (where the descendents of Anak remained, Joshua 11:32)

Judges 16:21 But the Philistines took him, and put out his eyes, and brought him down to Gaza, and bound him with fetters of brass; and he did grind in the prison house.

Samson slew the Phillistines in Gaza

Judges 16:30 And Samson said, Let me die with the Philistines. And he bowed himself with all his might; and the house fell upon the lords, and upon all the people that were therein. So the dead which he slew at his death were more than they which he slew in his life.

In Ashdod (where the descendents of Anak remained) and also the remnant of the Philistines

Amos 1:8 And I will cut off the inhabitant from Ashdod, and him that holdeth the sceptre from Ashkelon, and I will turn mine hand against Ekron: and the remnant of the Philistines shall perish, saith the Lord GOD.
 
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I see Jude 6-7 as separate events. The angels at Sodom and Gomorrah did not sin.

Surely you're not serious.

Jude 1:6-7 is making an association to the angels of Genesis 6 doing a similar sin that the SODOMITES of Sodom and Gomorrah did regarding unnatural flesh sexual relations. Don't you know what sodomy is? The angels of Genesis 6 leaving their heavenly habitation to take wives of flesh daughters of Adam was an unnatural flesh sexual relation.

Gen 6:2
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
KJV

Gen 6:4
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
KJV
 
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Daniel Marsh

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Surely you're not serious.

Jude 1:6-7 is making an association to the angels of Genesis 6 doing a similar sin that the SODOMITES of Sodom and Gomorrah did regarding unnatural flesh sexual relations. Don't you know what sodomy is? The angels of Genesis 6 leaving their heavenly habitation to take wives of flesh daughters of Adam was an unnatural flesh sexual relation.

Gen 6:2
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
KJV

Gen 6:4
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
KJV

and, yet in Scripture there is no evidence that angels and humans can reproduce.

An angel is a spirit creature, A human has a physical body with DNA and a spirit inside. There is no evidence that when an angel appears as a human they can reproduce with humans.

Here are all the other references to angels in the Bible
BibleGateway - Keyword Search: angel
None of which indicates that angels in the appearance of being human can reproduce.

Let's take you claim that angels and therefore demons can reproduce.
Would not Satan have his demons reproduce every opportunity they can? Do they reproduce more then humans? How do two spirits reproduce? Do they just split in half, grow and split again? Would this likely only take nano seconds?

Where does God command Angels to reproduce?

I am only pointing out the possible interpretations of Jude.

To make Jude 6 refer to Gen 6 takes you to read one into the other text.
Why would the Bible record every sin of men and angels?

In Heaven, we know there is no marriage. One of the aspects of Marriage is reproducing. Therefore it is likely angels do not reproduce.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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Genesis 6:2
That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

What other examples is there of angels and humans marrying besides me and my wife?
 
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Daniel Marsh

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John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Romans 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Romans 8:19
For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Philippians 2:15
That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

1 John 3:1
Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

1 John 3:2
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

In Job, we expect that sons of God refers to angels, but the above texts sons of God are Humans.
 
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Eze 32:27 27 Nor do they lie beside the fallen heroes of the uncircumcised, who went down to Sheol with their weapons of war and whose swords were laid under their heads; but the punishment for their iniquity rested on their bones, though the terror of these heroes was once in the land of the living.

Angels & Angelology
 
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Genesis 6:1-8 ESV / 102 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose. Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.” The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of [Adam in Hebrew] and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown. The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. ...

Why does it not say, God saw that the wickedness of men and angels was great in the earth?
 
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and, yet in Scripture there is no evidence that angels and humans can reproduce.

You're simply in denial of the simplicity of the Scripture.

Gen 6:2
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

KJV

Gen 6:4
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

KJV

Jude 6-7
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
KJV



Call the following just speculation if you want, but when we pull all the relevant Scripture together about that Genesis 6 event (and I didn't include the many Scripture references that show their offspring were literally giant hybrids), it reveals those "sons of God" left the heavenly and came to earth, and not only that but leaving their own estate (per Jude 1:6) suggests they may have put on flesh and that's how they were able to impregnate flesh women. And the idea of their taking wives of flesh women doesn't just show a onetime mating, but actual co-habitation with flesh women with the Gen.6:2 concept of "wives".

I believe those angels that did that were jealous of those born in the flesh, particularly of the relationship between flesh man and woman. They lusted. So they somehow left the bounds God had set between the heavenly and this flesh world, and somehow... manifested with sexual organs.

As for normal angelic appearances written in God's Word, like the two angels sent to Lot in Genesis 19, I do not believe they need a flesh body in order to appear on earth, nor to eat our food, etc. I believe they manifested on earth with their angelic body, which looks like flesh, operates similar to flesh, but is really of that other dimension of the heavenly. I don't believe they have the ability for sexual relations with flesh woman, because that Jude 1 idea of leaving their "first estate" doesn't apply to them, but only to those angels which rebelled in Genesis 6. This is why per Jude 1 those "sons of God" in Genesis 6 that did that are reserved in chains until the Judgment Day.
 
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Wisdom 5:5
Why has he been numbered among the sons of God? And why is his lot among the saints?

clearly these "sons of God" are people, not angels.

The text of Genesis 6 does not state that the "sons of God" there are angels or humans. The simplest explanation would be humans.

For the Giants to exist on earth after the flood means at least one person on the Arc had the DNA.

Either interpretation requires one to read their bias into the text. In reality it really does not matter.

But, it does raise the question, of why there were not any other "angels" having offspring in any other Ancient Near Eastern Literature.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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"
Christian antiquity[edit]
Scholars and authors in early Christianity were not unanimous in their opinion. Christian writers such as Justin Martyr, Eusebius, Clement of Alexandria, Origen, and Commodianus believed that the "sons of God" in Genesis 6:1–4 were fallen angels who engaged in unnatural union with human women, resulting in the begetting of the Nephilim.[32] Some scholars view Jesus' comment in Matthew 22:30 that angels do not marry, as a refutation to this view.[1]

Other early Christians believed that the "sons of God" in Genesis 6:1–4 were the descendants of Seth.[1] Augustine of Hippo subscribed to this view, based on the orations of Julius Africanus in his book City of God, which refer to the "sons of God" as being descendants of Seth (or Sethites), the pure line of Adam. The "daughters of men" are viewed as the descendants of Cain (or Cainites). Variations of this view were also received by Jewish philosophers"
Sons of God - Wikipedia
 
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"
SON OF GOD:
By: Kaufmann Kohler, Emil G. Hirsch
Table of Contents
Term applied to an angel or demigod, one of the mythological beings whose exploits are described in Gen. vi. 2-4, and whose ill conduct was among the causes of the Flood; to a judge or ruler (Ps. lxxxii. 6, "children of the Most High"; in many passages "gods" and "judges" seem to be equations; comp. Ex. xxi. 6 [R. V., margin] and xxii. 8, 9); and to the real or ideal king over Israel (II Sam. vii. 14, with reference to David and his dynasty; comp. Ps. lxxxix. 27, 28). "Sons of God" and "children of God" are applied also to Israel as a people (comp. Ex. iv. 22 and Hos. xi. 1) and to all members of the human race."

SON OF GOD - JewishEncyclopedia.com

...

Other uses of Sons of God CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Son of God
 
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You're simply in denial of the simplicity of the Scripture.

Gen 6:2
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

KJV

Gen 6:4
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

KJV

Jude 6-7
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
KJV



Call the following just speculation if you want, but when we pull all the relevant Scripture together about that Genesis 6 event (and I didn't include the many Scripture references that show their offspring were literally giant hybrids), it reveals those "sons of God" left the heavenly and came to earth, and not only that but leaving their own estate (per Jude 1:6) suggests they may have put on flesh and that's how they were able to impregnate flesh women. And the idea of their taking wives of flesh women doesn't just show a onetime mating, but actual co-habitation with flesh women with the Gen.6:2 concept of "wives".

I believe those angels that did that were jealous of those born in the flesh, particularly of the relationship between flesh man and woman. They lusted. So they somehow left the bounds God had set between the heavenly and this flesh world, and somehow... manifested with sexual organs.

As for normal angelic appearances written in God's Word, like the two angels sent to Lot in Genesis 19, I do not believe they need a flesh body in order to appear on earth, nor to eat our food, etc. I believe they manifested on earth with their angelic body, which looks like flesh, operates similar to flesh, but is really of that other dimension of the heavenly. I don't believe they have the ability for sexual relations with flesh woman, because that Jude 1 idea of leaving their "first estate" doesn't apply to them, but only to those angels which rebelled in Genesis 6. This is why per Jude 1 those "sons of God" in Genesis 6 that did that are reserved in chains until the Judgment Day.

Men take Wives, not angels.

Jesus clearly says there is no marriage in heaven.
 
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