WHAT IS THE REAL GOSPEL?

LoveGodsWord · Mar 26, 2021

Hi HIM, thanks for the kind words. We are nothing without him but with him we can do all things dear friend.

God bless :wave:

Nathan@work · Mar 26, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
That is not the definition of ceremonial.

I was not defining ceremonial.

brmicke · Mar 26, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
THE EVERLASTING GOSPEL OR ANOTHER GOSPEL WHICH DO YOU FOLLOW?

Hi Guys,

The other thread seemed to have disappeared because of a technicality. Anyhow this is an undated version with some new questions for consideration.

In God's Word the bible speaks of the everlasting Gospel in Revelation 14:6 as part of the three angels messages as the last message of warning given to the world before the second coming and warns us about receiving "another gospel" preaching another Jesus or a false gospel that is not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ (false teachings) in 2 Corinthians 11:4; Galatians 1:6-7; Acts of the Apostles 20:29.

I think this topic is an important one for us to understand as it is written in the very Words of Jesus, that in the last days there will be many false teachers seeking to lead God's people away from the truth of God's Word *Matthew 24:24; 2 Peter 2:1-3.

...................

QUESTIONS FOR THIS OP (I will link my answers to these question back here to the OP when answered)

Q1. What is the true gospel? (linked)
Q2. Why has God given us His grace for? (linked)
Q3. What is sin (linked)
Q4. What is God's grace for?
Q5. What is the other gospel?
Q6. Can we have Gods' grace without God's law? (pt1)
Q7. What is the purpose of God's law (10 commandments) in the new covenant?

...................

What do you think dear friends. Are you following the everlasting gospel and where is it leading you? What therefore is the "another gospel" and where can it lead us?

Friendly discussion please.

God bless

Contemporary Christian thought has its adherents waiting for what is called a Rapture, which they think is the Day of the Lord/Second Coming of Jesus.

They await a time when unbelievers experience a Great Tribulation which some think they will live thru (mid and post tribulation rapture) and some think they will escape (pre tribulation rapture).

This is followed by a glorious time when Jesus reigns on earth for 1000 years, and then after that taste of Heaven, Satan is released to again cause destruction during which time He is finally and utterly defeated and thrown into the lake of fire.

This is the delusion that many Christians live in, believing it totally or in part.

Let Us Reason

LoveGodsWord · Mar 26, 2021

Nathan@work said:
I was not defining ceremonial.

You made a claim that the Sabbath was ceremonial it is not. All of God's 10 commandments are moral laws of our duty of right doing to God and our fellow man.

LoveGodsWord · Mar 26, 2021

brmicke said:
Contemporary Christian thought has its adherents waiting for what is called a Rapture, which they think is the Day of the Lord/Second Coming of Jesus.

They await a time when unbelievers experience a Great Tribulation which some think they will live thru (mid and post tribulation rapture) and some think they will escape (pre tribulation rapture).

This is followed by a glorious time when Jesus reigns on earth for 1000 years, and then after that taste of Heaven, Satan is released to again cause destruction during which time He is finally and utterly defeated and thrown into the lake of fire.

This is the delusion that many Christians live in, believing it totally or in part.

Let Us Reason

Hello brmicke nice to meet you. So in your view the pre-trib rapture idea is a false gospel? This is how I also view the term gospel being God's Word. So the true gospel is the truth of God's Word while a false gospel is a false teaching from God's Word. All of God's Word is "good news" according to the scriptures so is the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Thanks for sharing your view.

LoveGodsWord · Mar 26, 2021

chad kincham said:
Had you looked at 2 Corinthians 3 that I cited, Paul says the ten commands given to Moses on the mountain, are the ministry of death, the ministry of condemnation, and the letter that kills, and had you paid closer attention, i said we know the Decalogue is called in scripture THE COVENANT ON TWO TABLES OF STONE. What was put on two tables of stone? The Ten Commandments - so obviously the Decalogue was the old covenant. We now have a better covenant with better promises, and we are told the old covenant was faulty - deliberately so. Also the ark was called the ark of the COVENANT because it contained the ten commands in it, which ARE the covenant. They are the ministry of death and the letter that kills, because the penalty under the law given to Moses for breaking the commands was being stoned to death.

Not quite Chad but allow me to explain why. I think we both agree that the old covenant (Mosaic covenant) included God's 10 commandments as shown in Exodus 34:28; Deuteronomy 4:13 yet according to the scriptures this was not all there was to the old covenant which also included the book of the covenant shown in EXODUS 24:7 [7] And he took the BOOK OF THE COVENANT, and read in the hearing of the people: and they said, All that the LORD has said will we do, and be obedient. This was the other half of the old covenant which included all the laws for remission of sins, the Levitical Priesthood, animal sacrifices for sin offerings and the ceremonial laws of the earthly Sanctuary.

God's 10 commandments are still a part of the new covenant. It is the "shadow laws" for remission of sins from the Mosaic book of the covenant that are now fulfilled in the new covenant based on better promises *Hebrews 8:1-6; Hebrews 9:1-12; Hebrews 10:1-17.

As shown through the scriptures both God's 10 commandments as well as the Mosaic BOOK of the covenant were kept in the Ark of the covenant. God's 10 commandment were placed inside the Ark of the covenant underneath the mercy seat *Exodus 25:16-17; Deuteronomy 10:1-5 while the book of the covenant *Exodus 24:7 was placed in the side of the Ark *Deuteronomy 31:24-26.

So the full story here is that both God's 10 commandments as well as the Mosaic book of the law (Exodus 24:7; Deuteronomy 28:61; 29:21; 30:10; 31:24-26; Josiah 1:8; 8:31-34; 23:6; 24:26; 2 Kings 14:6; 22:8-11; 23:24; 2 Chronicles 17:9; 25:4; 34:14-15; Nehemiah 8:1-8;18; 9:3; Galatians 3:10; Hebrews 9:19; Hebrews 10:7 etc) together made up the old covenant not the Decalogue in isolation to the Mosiac book of the law.

So as shown from the scriptures the old covenant included both the 10 commandments and the Mosaic book of the law which included the shadow laws of remission of sins that pointed to Jesus and God's plan of salvation in the new covenant based on better promises *Hebrews 8:1-6. Hebrews 10:1-17; Psalms 40:7, Then said I, See, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me Hebrews 10:7, Then said I, See, I come in the volume of the book it is written of me, to do your will, O God. It is the volume of the book that pointed to Jesus that is fulfilled in the new covenant based on better promises not God's 10 commandments.

The reason why the 10 commandments are the law of sin and death is because breaking them leads to condemnation for sin and the penalty of death. This is written in the Mosaic book of the law (Deuteronomy 17:1-5; 14:6-10; Exodus 22:20; Deuteronomy 27: 15; Leviticus 24:16; Exodus 21:15-17; Leviticus 24:17; Numbers 35:31-33; Exodus 20:14; Leviticus 20:10; John 8:3-5; Exodus 21:16; Deuteronomy 19:15-21; Joshua 7:21-25; Romans 6:23) not the tables of stone.

The purpose of God's 10 commandments have the same role they always have in the new covenant and that is to give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing); sin (moral wrong doing) and righteousness (moral right doing) according to Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172 and to lead us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith *Galatians 3:22-25 and be born again *John 3:3-7 and made free to walk in God's Spirit *Galatians 5:16. Those who have been born again under Gods' new covenant promise to love *Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27 do not practice sin which is defined in God's law as breaking God's commandments (James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4) in 1 John 3:6-9.

Sin therefore according to the scriptures is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil according to John in 1 John 3:9-10 and James says if we break anyone of God's 10 commandments in James 2:10-11 we stand guilty before God of breaking all of them. This includes Gods' 4th commandment which is one of God's 10 commandments as shown in Exodus 20:8-11 which gives us the knowledge of what sin is when broken as shown in the new covenant scriptures (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11)

chad kincham said:
Also, it’s no contradiction re. the command to have no fire in their HABITATION, meaning in their home, and still having fire AT THE ALTAR for burnt offerings, as those are different places entirely. The sacrificial altar was not in anyone’s HABITATION/HOME.

There is no such command in God's 4th commandments (please read Exodus 20:8-11). If your referring to Exodus 16 this was in reference to collecting manner on the Sabbath. It was the custom of both Jesus and Paul to go to Church on the Sabbath *Luke 4:16; Acts of the Apostles 17:2.

chad kincham said:
I said the church gathered on the first day because that’s what scripture says.

According to the scriptures the Church gathered together every day of the week *Acts of the Apostles 2:46-47 of course this does not make every day of the week holy days of rest where we are commanded that no work is to be done now does it?

chad kincham said:
Clearly the sabbath day was ceremonial because it was but a fore-SHADOW of Jesus being our rest 24/7 Matthew 11:28-29, says Colossians 2, who is the SUBSTANCE that cast the shadow, ergo He is our rest daily, not just once per week - and the word translated SABBATHS in that passage, according to Strongs exhaustive Greek dictionary, includes every type of sabbath there is, especially the weekly one - which precludes the oft cited bogus SDA claim that the passage doesn’t mean or include the seventh day sabbath.

I respectfully disagree but let me show why from the scriptures. A ceremonial law is one of ritual for example the laws of remission of sins and sin offering were all ceremonial as they were "shadow laws" pointing to Jesus as God's sacrifice for the sins of the world. You may need to get your definitions correct as to what is ceremonial and what is moral. There is no ritual at all in God's 4th commandment (please read Exodus 20:8-11) in the new covenant scriptures and all of God's 10 commandments are the standard of moral right doing when obeyed according to Psalms 119:172 and sin when disobeyed *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and if we break anyone of them according to James we stand guilty before God of sin in James 2:10-11.

As posted a little earlier your mixing up the gospel rest of believing and following God's Word with the Sabbath was given to mankind when mankind believed and followed Gods' Word when there was no sin. It is impossible therefore for the 4th commandment to be a "shadow law" of anything because there was no law and no sin when it was created for mankind and it was a part of the finished work of creation given before sin entered the world when mankind was in perfect harmony with God *Genesis 2:1-3. God's 4th commandment points backward not forwards starting off "Remember" (past application) not future to things to come (see Exodus 20:8). Discussed in more detail in post # 274 linked.

There were also many types of annual sabbaths in the old covenant that where shadow sabbaths that could fall on any day of the week connected to the Feast days (e.g. Colossians 2:16-17; (1) Feast of Unleavened Bread (first and last day) *Leviticus 23:6-8 (2) Feast of Trumpets *Leviticus 23:24-25 (3) Day of Atonement *Leviticus 23:27-32 (4) Feast of Booths *Leviticus 23:34-36 (5) Feast of First Fruits *Leviticus 23:39 (6) Feast days of Holy convocation of no work (sabbaton Colossians 2:16 *Leviticus 23:7-8; 21;24; 27; 35-36). None of these however are God's 4th commandment Sabbath of creation that God set apart as a holy day of rest for His people.

chad kincham said:
It should be obvious how the two love commands tell us what to do - if you love your neighbor as yourself, you won’t steal from him, kill him, covet his goods, lie against him, etc, and if you love God with all your heart you won’t worship idols, or take His name in vain, etc. And the way you treat your neighbor when you love him as yourself, far exceeds the good you will do for him that the Decalogue commands you to.

Indeed, none of us love God or our fellow man by breaking Gods' law as shown by Jesus in Matthew 22:36-40; Paul in Romans 13:8-10 and James in James 2:10-11. Love is not separate from God's law it is expressed through obedience to Gods' law that is why Jesus says "on these two great commandments of love to God and man hang all the law and the prophets *Matthew 22:40. (already addressed in more detail in post # 274 linked and elsewhere in this thread).

Hope this is helpful.

Nathan@work · Mar 26, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
You made a claim that the Sabbath was ceremonial it is not. All of God's 10 commandments are moral laws of our duty of right doing to God and our fellow man.

I made the claim that the procedure of how it is observed is ceremonial. I never said the Sabbath itself is.

The Sabbath is the seventh day. That is what it is.

chad kincham · Mar 26, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
God's 10 commandments are still a part of the new covenant. It is the "shadow laws" for remission of sins from the Mosaic book of the covenant that are now fulfilled in the new covenant based on better promises *Hebrews 8:1-6; Hebrews 9:1-12; Hebrews 10:1-17.

Incorrect.

The ten commands are negative commands kept under penalty of death by stoning for breaking.

The two love commands are positive commands kept out of love for God and neighbor, not out of fear of death.

Love fulfills all the law and the prophets says the new covenant, but there is no command to keep any days there, which is why the 4th command is gone now, as all sabbaths were shadows of Jesus, who is our rest now.

LoveGodsWord · Mar 26, 2021

chad kincham said:
Incorrect.

The ten commands are negative commands kept under penalty of death by stoning for breaking.

The two love commands are positive commands kept out of love for God and neighbor, not out of fear of death.

Love fulfills all the law and the prophets says the new covenant, but there is no command to keep any days there, which is why the 4th command is gone now, as all sabbaths were shadows of Jesus, who is our rest now.

Not really Chad but allow me to explain why from the scriptures.

What was shared with you is absolutely correct check the scripture references as they are God's Words not my words. The 10 commandments are only negative commands if we stand before God guilty of breaking them *James 4:7; James 2:10-11; Romans 3:19-20; Romans 7:7.

The purpose of God's 10 commandments as shown earlier in the new covenant is to give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing); sin and righteousness (*Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172) and to lead us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith *Galatians 3:22-25 to be born again *John 3:3-7 to walk in Gods Spirit *Galatians 5:16.

As posted earlier love to God and our fellow man is not separated from Gods law it is expressed in obedience to God's law as shown by Jesus in Matthew 22:36-40; Paul in Romans 13:8-10; James in James 2:8-12 and John in 1 John 5:2-3. We do not love God or our fellow man by breaking God's commandments this only demonstrated we do not know God according to John in 1 John 2:3-4.

No law = no knowledge of what sin is *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7
No sin = no Savior from sin *Matthew 9:12-13
No Savior = no salvation because we are still in our sins *1 John 2:3-4
No salvation = lost *Romans 2:12; Romans 6:23; see Matthew 9:12-13

The purpose of God's law in the new covenant is to lead us to God's grace *Galatians 3:22-25; Ephesians 2:8-9 and salvation only found in Jesus.

Hope this is helpful.

chad kincham · Mar 26, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Not really Chad but allow me to explain why from the scriptures.

What was shared with you is absolutely correct check the scripture references as they are God's Words not my words. The 10 commandments are only negative commands if we stand before God guilty of breaking them *James 4:7; James 2:10-11; Romans 3:19-20; Romans 7:7.

The purpose of God's 10 commandments as shown earlier in the new covenant is to give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing); sin and righteousness (*Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172) and to lead us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith *Galatians 3:22-25 to be born again *John 3:3-7 to walk in Gods Spirit *Galatians 5:16.

As posted earlier love to God and our fellow man is not separated from Gods law it is expressed in obedience to God's law as shown by Jesus in Matthew 22:36-40; Paul in Romans 13:8-10; James in James 2:8-12 and John in 1 John 5:2-3. We do not love God or our fellow man by breaking God's commandments this only demonstrated we do not know God according to John in 1 John 2:3-4.

No law = no sin *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7
No sin = no Savior from sin *Matthew 9:12-13
No Savior = no salvation because we are still in our sins *1 John 2:3-4
No salvation = lost *Romans 2:12; Romans 6:23; see Matthew 9:12-13

The purpose of God's law in the new covenant is to lead us to God's grace *Galatians 3:22-25; Ephesians 2:8-9 and salvation only found in Jesus.

Hope this is helpful.

New covenant law is the law of love, the two love commands, aka the law of Christ.

LoveGodsWord · Mar 26, 2021

chad kincham said:
New covenant law is the law of love, the two love commands, aka the law of Christ.

According to the scriptures the new covenant, God's law is the same one that has always been. Jesus from Matthew 22:36-40 is quoting from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18. Paul even states in Romans 13:8-10 that love to our neighbor is only summarizing those of the 10 commandments that are our duty of love to our fellow man in Romans 13:8-10. That is why James says if you break anyone of God's 10 commandments we are not demonstrating love to our fellow man in James 2:8-12 and why John is also saying that love is expressed through obedience to Gods law in 1 John 5:2-3. Check out the scriptures provided.

Hope this is helpful

HIM · Mar 27, 2021

chad kincham said:
Incorrect.

The ten commands are negative commands kept under penalty of death by stoning for breaking.

Please show Scripture where the word of God says the Ten are negative.

The two love commands are positive commands kept out of love for God and neighbor, not out of fear of death.

Love fulfills all the law and the prophets says the new covenant,

Actually all the law and prophets hang on , depend on love for God and our fellow man.

Matt 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

You mixed 2 verses together and try to change what Jesus said in Matthew. The context of the passages are different, they can not be mixed. Paul is only talking about our Love for our neighbor and the fruits of it. He does not go into our love for God in Romans 13.

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

but there is no command to keep any days there, which is why the 4th command is gone now, as all sabbaths were shadows of Jesus, who is our rest now.

The Spirit says God spoke of the Seventh Day and He speaks of it again if we shall enter into His rest, which is the Gospel

Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Heb 4:5 And in this again (He speaks), If they shall enter into my rest.

How does He speak of it?

Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a Sabbath rest to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest (through the Gospel), he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

The word "also" denotes two things The verse says He that has, is experiencing His rest, the one God offers through Christ, He, they also cease from their own works as God did from His.
The word "as" denotes a direct comparison. God is not experiencing the Gospel as we do. We who are experiencing the Gospel and the rest which it offers also cease from our own works as God did from His. AS GOD DID. God ceased from physical work on the Seventh Day. So we as He cease from physical work. Because this again HE SPEAKS

LoveGodsWord · Mar 27, 2021

Nathan@work said:
I made the claim that the procedure of how it is observed is ceremonial. I never said the Sabbath itself is.

The Sabbath is the seventh day. That is what it is.

Resting and not doing any secular work is not a ceremony or a procedure

Nathan@work · Mar 27, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Not really Chad but allow me to explain why from the scriptures.

What was shared with you is absolutely correct check the scripture references as they are God's Words not my words. The 10 commandments are only negative commands if we stand before God guilty of breaking them *James 4:7; James 2:10-11; Romans 3:19-20; Romans 7:7.

The purpose of God's 10 commandments as shown earlier in the new covenant is to give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing); sin and righteousness (*Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172) and to lead us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith *Galatians 3:22-25 to be born again *John 3:3-7 to walk in Gods Spirit *Galatians 5:16.

As posted earlier love to God and our fellow man is not separated from Gods law it is expressed in obedience to God's law as shown by Jesus in Matthew 22:36-40; Paul in Romans 13:8-10; James in James 2:8-12 and John in 1 John 5:2-3. We do not love God or our fellow man by breaking God's commandments this only demonstrated we do not know God according to John in 1 John 2:3-4.

No law = no sin *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7
No sin = no Savior from sin *Matthew 9:12-13
No Savior = no salvation because we are still in our sins *1 John 2:3-4
No salvation = lost *Romans 2:12; Romans 6:23; see Matthew 9:12-13

The purpose of God's law in the new covenant is to lead us to God's grace *Galatians 3:22-25; Ephesians 2:8-9 and salvation only found in Jesus.

Hope this is helpful.

So you still think God wants us to have knowledge of good and evil? Even after our discussion about how God commanded Adam not to?

And now you are saying that without sin we don’t need a savior? Do you seriously not see what your saying here?

Nathan@work · Mar 27, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Resting and not doing any secular work is not a ceremony or a procedure

You posted a link in another thread that “defined” ceremonial.

The Mosaic law expressly states that certain ceremonies are to serve as "signs" and "memorials"

The Sabbath, in the way it is observed by those who observe it as the Jews did, is very much a ceremonial observance.

The Sabbath itself is not, but the observation of it is.

Out of curiosity, how are you defining what is secular and what is not?

chad kincham · Mar 27, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
According to the scriptures the new covenant, God's law is the same one that has always been. Jesus from Matthew 22:36-40 is quoting from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18. Paul even states in Romans 13:8-10 that love to our neighbor is only summarizing those of the 10 commandments that are our duty of love to our fellow man in Romans 13:8-10. That is why James says if you break anyone of God's 10 commandments we are not demonstrating love to our fellow man in James 2:8-12 and why John is also saying that love is expressed through obedience to Gods law in 1 John 5:2-3. Check out the scriptures provided.

Hope this is helpful

Not too helpful, because you exhibit a fundamental misunderstanding of the love commands vs the ten commands.

The ten commands have not one drop of love for your neighbor in them. The commands are kept not out of love, but because the penalty for breaking them was death by stoning.

Whereas with the love commands you won’t kill your neighbor, or steal his goods, or covet what’s his, because you love him as yourself - not out of fear of punishment.

And if you love your neighbor as yourself, you will far exceed the ten commands in how well you treat your neighbor.

Thus the two love commands are not just the ten restated - that would be redundant- but the two go far beyond the scope of the ten.

That’s why love fulfills ALL THE LAW says the New Testament, all except the ceremonial day of rest called the sabbath - there is no days that must be observed in the new covenant,

For example - if you had two families on opposite sides of the street, and in home A, the father says to his son, mow the lawn each week, or I will kill you by stoning you to death.

In home B, the father says, mow the lawn weekly because you love me.

You can’t say those two commands are the same because the end result of mowing the lawn weekly is accomplished.

That’s why Paul is clear that the ten commands are the ministry of death, of condemnation, and are the letter which kills, which have passed away - replaced by the law of the spirit, which brings life, instead of death, in 2 Corinthians ch. 3.

LoveGodsWord · Mar 27, 2021

Nathan@work said:
So you still think God wants us to have knowledge of good and evil? Even after our discussion about how God commanded Adam not to?

It was never God's will that mankind would disobey God's Word and eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. God told man not to eat of the tree but when Eve spoke to the devil in the guise of a serpent she was deceived and ate of the fruit and gave it to her husband to eat and he ate of it. *Genesis 3:1-13. After mankind had fallen according to the scriptures God said in Genesis 3:22 "Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever". According to the scriptures in the new covenant it is through God's 10 commandments that we know what is good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing); sin (moral wrong doing) and righteousness (moral right doing) is according to the scriptures in Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172.

Nathan@work said:
And now you are saying that without sin we don’t need a savior? Do you seriously not see what your saying here?

No. Jesus says it in Matthew 9:12-13 where he says; [12], But when Jesus heard that, he said to them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. [13], But go you and learn what that means, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. What do you think these scriptures mean?

Hope this is helpful

chad kincham · Mar 27, 2021

HIM said:
Please show Scripture where the word of God says the Ten are negative.

Actually all the law and prophets hang on , depend on love for God and our fellow man.

Matt 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

You mixed 2 verses together and try to change what Jesus said in Matthew. The context of the passages are different, they can not be mixed. Paul is only talking about our Love for our neighbor and the fruits of it. He does not go into our love for God in Romans 13.

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
The Spirit says God spoke of the Seventh Day and He speaks of it again if we shall enter into His rest, which is the Gospel

Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Heb 4:5 And in this again (He speaks), If they shall enter into my rest.

How does He speak of it?

Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a Sabbath rest to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest (through the Gospel), he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

The word "also" denotes two things The verse says He that has, is experiencing His rest, the one God offers through Christ, He, they also cease from their own works as God did from His.
The word "as" denotes a direct comparison. God is not experiencing the Gospel as we do. We who are experiencing the Gospel and the rest which it offers also cease from our own works as God did from His. AS GOD DID. God ceased from physical work on the Seventh Day. So we as He cease from physical work. Because this again HE SPEAKS

That’s wrong, but I’m not going to spend hours trying to straighten you out.

The covenant given on mount Sinai is slavery and bondage - Galatians 4:21-31. If you can’t grasp that, you are oblivious.

The ten commands bring death, and are replaced by the law of the spirit, which brings life. 2 Corinthians ch. 3.

LoveGodsWord · Mar 27, 2021

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ According to the scriptures the new covenant, God's law is the same one that has always been. Jesus from Matthew 22:36-40 is quoting from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18. Paul even states in Romans 13:8-10 that love to our neighbor is only summarizing those of the 10 commandments that are our duty of love to our fellow man in Romans 13:8-10. That is why James says if you break anyone of God's 10 commandments we are not demonstrating love to our fellow man in James 2:8-12 and why John is also saying that love is expressed through obedience to Gods law in 1 John 5:2-3. Check out the scriptures provided.

Your response here...

chad kincham said:
Not too helpful, because you exhibit a fundamental misunderstanding of the love commands vs the ten commands.

The ten commands have not one drop of love for your neighbor in them. The commands are kept not out of love, but because the penalty for breaking them was death by stoning.

Whereas with the love commands you won’t kill your neighbor, or steal his goods, or covet what’s his, because you love him as yourself - not out of fear of punishment.

And if you love your neighbor as yourself, you will far exceed the ten commands in how well you treat your neighbor.

Thus the two love commands are not just the ten restated - that would be redundant- but the two go far beyond the scope of the ten.

That’s why love fulfills ALL THE LAW says the New Testament, all except the ceremonial day of rest called the sabbath - there is no days that must be observed in the new covenant,

For example - if you had two families on opposite sides of the street, and in home A, the father says to his son, mow the lawn each week, or I will kill you by stoning you to death.

In home B, the father says, mow the lawn weekly because you love me.

You can’t say those two commands are the same because the end result of mowing the lawn weekly is accomplished.

That’s why Paul is clear that the ten commands are the ministry of death, of condemnation, and are the letter which kills, which have passed away - replaced by the law of the spirit, which brings life, instead of death, in 2 Corinthians ch. 3.

Hi Chad did you read the scriptures in the post you are quoting from? They are God's Words not mine. Lets discuss it a little further with the scriptures if it may help the conversation.

Jesus in Matthew 22:36-40 says [36], Master, which is the great commandment in the law? [37], Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. [38], This is the first and great commandment. [39], And the second is like to it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.[40], ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

These are not new commandments as some teach but Jesus is quoting old testament scripture from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18 that summarizes the 10 commandments and how we love God and our fellow man (see Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12; 1 John 5:2-3).

Notice in Luke 10:25-28 Jesus when asked the question "what shall I do to inherit eternal life? This question was asked from the an expert in Mosaic law νομικός who was also quoting from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18. So the old testament scriptures of Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18 were very well known as a summary of the 10 commandments which is also shown by Paul in Romans 13:8-10 where he quotes the last six commandments of the 10 commandments showing that this is how we love our fellow man and stating that loving our fellow man is summarizing those commandments in the 10 commandments that are our duty of love to our fellow man. James does the same in James 2:8-12.

We can see this once again in the words of Jesus in Matthew 19:16-19. Notice here that the same question is asked by the expert in Mosaic law by the rich young ruler? [16] Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? This is the same question asked by the expert in the Mosiac law in Luke 10:25-28 yet notice how Jesus answers the question slightly differently here and directly quotes the 10 commandments?

Love is not separate from God's law it is expressed through obedience to Gods' law. That is why Jesus says on these to great commandments of love hang all the law and the prophets in Matthew 22:36-40. The first four commandments are our duty of love to God and the second six commandments are our duty of love to our neighbor.

Jesus says unless we are born again to love we cannot see the kingdom of Heaven in John 3:3-7. Those who are born again do not practice sin according to John in 1 John 3:6-9 and those who do have not seen God or know him *1 John 2:3-4; Matthew 7:21-23.

We need a new heart to love and that is what God's new covenant is as shown in the scriptures in Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27 and Hebrews 10:26-31. God knows us that we are all sinners in need of His salvation and Grace *Matthew 9:12-13 and without Gods help we do not have the love of God in us *John 5:42.

According to the scriptures we cannot separate Gods' love from God's law as God's love is expressed through obedience to Gods' law and is why Jesus says that on the two great commandments of love to God and love to man hang all the law and the prophets in Matthew 22:36-40; Paul says the same thing as Jesus when he shows in Romans 13:8-10 that love is expressed in obedience to the 10 commandment to our fellow man and that love to man is simply a summary of obedience to God's 10 commandments. This is also agreed to by James when he shows in James 2:8-12 that love is not expressed through breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments.

According to the scriptures sin according to John is the transgression of God's law *1 John 3:4 and those who practice sin and those who do not is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil in 1 John 3:9-10. Unless we are born again into God's new covenant promise to love we cannot see the kingdom of heaven (John 3:3-7).

1 John 5:2-4 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. For whatever is born of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that overcomes the world, even our faith. This is why Jesus says "If you love me keep my commandments *John 14:15.

These are Gods' Words not mine. Of course you are free to believe as you wish. For me according to the scriptures only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29.

May God bless you as you seek Him through His Word.

SabbathBlessings · Mar 27, 2021

chad kincham said:
That’s wrong, but I’m not going to spend hours trying to straighten you out.

The covenant given on mount Sinai is slavery and bondage - Galatians 4:21-31. If you can’t grasp that, you are oblivious.

The ten commands bring death, and are replaced by the law of the spirit, which brings life. 2 Corinthians ch. 3.

What does this mean to you? Are you free to lie, steal, worship idols, vain His name and Sabbath? Doing these things frees you and you’re in God’s Spirit? If you have God’s Spirit you will obey His laws not break them.

WHAT IS THE REAL GOSPEL?

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