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- Thread starter Mr. M
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When applied, the focus on God results in spiritual and financial wealth.
Discretionary spending is usually 30%.
You can actually gain 20% of your income back by tithing.
Then you can spend another 5% on discretionary gifting
leaving you with a 15% pay raise.
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Well I will go back to what my Messianic rabbi friend called it a "reasonable tax" levied by Kings. Which bears out if you look at the culture that preceded the Bible in Mesopotamia before Abraham ever left there you had people making tithes to kings, temples etc. That very much was part of the near east culture before Abraham arrived on the scene.
There also is an important theme of God as a King. A King of heaven, the universe, a King of Kings etc. And Kings typically get what is due them. Unlike a literal physical king, yahew did not need a tithe to pay for his kingdom etc. being God and self existent etc. But it nevertheless was a form of worship, and in the future would serve as a practice for maintaining his future earthly servants (Levites, Cohens, New Testament ministers).
There also is an important theme of God as a King. A King of heaven, the universe, a King of Kings etc. And Kings typically get what is due them. Unlike a literal physical king, yahew did not need a tithe to pay for his kingdom etc. being God and self existent etc. But it nevertheless was a form of worship, and in the future would serve as a practice for maintaining his future earthly servants (Levites, Cohens, New Testament ministers).
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BrotherJJ
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After wrestling with the Lord Gen 32:28. The Lord changes Jacobs name to Israel. Jacob's 12 sons become the 12 Tribes of Israel. Each son receives a portion of Land except Levi/Levites. Levi's Tribe was chosen to be the priests.
The purpose of the tithe:
Unlike all the other tribes, Levites did not receive any land. Therefore they had no means of income. So God provided for the Tribe of Levite & Temple operating expenses. Via mandatory tithes (Plural) to be given from the other tribes.
Jacob makes a freewill vow/offering to God: """IF GOD"""
Gen. 28:20 And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, """If God""" will be with me, and (IF GOD) will keep me in this way that I go, and (IF GOD) will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on,
21 So that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the LORD be my God:
22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.
Jacob's proposition is """IF GOD""" meet's Jacob's requirements. He will give God back 10%. JJ
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Hi Pavel, could you provide some authentic information where you got your information on the tithing system before Abraham left. In all of the story about Abraham we have one account of him paying tithe on the spoils of a war. Scripture doesn't mention anyone paying a tithe until God imposed the system at Sinai.
The tithing system for ministers in the New Testament is a man made imposed law. Christians are not under any tithing rules. We are to give because we love our Savior and out of our hearts.
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You mean stuff like this? Or really any online encyclopedia or historical resource. It was actually a Messianic rabbi who first made that comment. But it checks out if you are willing to look at historical / anthropological sources.
Earliest Taxes – Ancient Mesopotamia (6,000 BC) | Blog
But yes the tithe was not codified till Moses, the point though is this was part of the near east culture and not something created out of the blue by Yahew etc.
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Pavel, the website information was someone's opinion. I am sure people were taxed. Likewise, we are taxed in many ways, but it is to the governing bodies that these taxes go to support not religious entities. I wonder where the Messianic Rabbi got the information?
The Origin of Tithing (letusreason.org)
The Origin of Tithing (letusreason.org)
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You are being too literal on the word tax. In this case it is just using it to describe a custom, in this case a custom that came from the very early near east.
In terms of where they got it I think it is more Common sense and logic than anything. Cultures that come from older cultures tend to use the customs of the previous culture (They of course modify them according to their new beliefs etc). They get modified etc. but there are many parallels with in areas of Jewish law with stuff out of the code of Hammurabi etc. and this sort of thing is acknowledged by experts like Bible scholars (and I'm not talking about the unbelieving Higher Critics but actual believing scholars like Michael Heisner).
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Sorry, I do not agree. The tithe Israelite farmers paid was a tax. It was a requirement. Trades people and others did not pay tithe
Jesus would not have been a tithe payer. Why? because He didn't raise livestock or produce.
Jesus would not have been a tithe payer. Why? because He didn't raise livestock or produce.
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Victor in Christ
Jehovah Tsidkenu
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There's 3 tithes i see in scripture. A 10th of people OT Israel Leviticus 27:32 and I think that tithe is in Isaiah also.
Then the 10th financial tithe (Abraham/Jacob- Melchisidec) and then the 3-fold tithe in Malachi 3:10 which i believe Paul uses in the NT.
The last 2 tithes being financial/possessions/acts-works of grace.
The 3 fold tithe in Malachi 3:10 was to be given 1- to the Levitical Priests, 2- the widow and orphan, 3- the stranger. Paul repeats this in the NT, but the Levitical Priesthood being changed in Hebrews 7:12, it now becomes the local 'church' you go to, then the 'church including all members' gives/acts out their faith to the orphan and widow and the stranger/homeless.
2 Corinthians 9:6-7
Then the 10th financial tithe (Abraham/Jacob- Melchisidec) and then the 3-fold tithe in Malachi 3:10 which i believe Paul uses in the NT.
The last 2 tithes being financial/possessions/acts-works of grace.
The 3 fold tithe in Malachi 3:10 was to be given 1- to the Levitical Priests, 2- the widow and orphan, 3- the stranger. Paul repeats this in the NT, but the Levitical Priesthood being changed in Hebrews 7:12, it now becomes the local 'church' you go to, then the 'church including all members' gives/acts out their faith to the orphan and widow and the stranger/homeless.
2 Corinthians 9:6-7
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jehovah, What Abraham gave to Melchizedek was a tenth of the spoils of war. Israelite farmers gave the Levites ten percent of their crops and animals. The Levites gave a tenth of their earnings, the tithe from the farmers, and gave it to the poor. Other than that, there is no record except when Jeus acknowledged the Pharisees tithe from their gardens. Heb 7:12 does not indicate anything about tithing of giving anything.
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Victor in Christ
Jehovah Tsidkenu
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what does it indicate? The Priesthood has changed, my view is that there's no need now to give 10th of your earning to an earthly Priest. If you get paid in an uneven number youd find it difficult to tithe 10%. You'd also find it difficult to keep all the OT laws. Its why they won't get anyone to heaven.
Giving to your local church with a cheerfull heart means more to the Lord than tithing 10% of what the Lord has blessed us with.
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“There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end
thereof are the ways of death” (Proverbs 14:12; 16:25).
God promises to prosper tithe payers. God says in (Malachi 3:10)
“Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat
in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts,
if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a
blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it”.
In (Deuteronomy 14:22) God’s law tells us that we should tithe the
“increase” we receive .The gross income that comes to us as a result
of our own productive efforts, income that we earn ourselves.
A tithe payer prospers, his needs are always supplied.
Those who tithe are not often in want (Psalm 37:25).
The greater rewards for submission to the tithing law are eternal!
“Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound
to your account” (Philippians 4:17).
God promises that His people will always have something to give
to His work (Deuteronomy 16:16-17). He wants us to be happy,
joyful people, blessed and prosperous (3 John 2).
“Honour the Lord with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of
all thine increase: So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and
thy presses shall burst out with new wine” (Proverbs 3:9-10).
In Galatians 6:7, Paul reminds us that God is not mocked,
and that which we sow we shall surely reap.
“Behold, ye have sinned against the Lord: and be sure
your sin will find you out” (Numbers 32:23)
“Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness;
and all these things shall be added unto you” (Matthew 6:33).
We must remember that all we have comes from God (Deuteronomy 10:14).
The first tenth, in addition to offerings, is His portion.
The remainder He gives freely to us. However, if we take to ourselves
that which is God’s, we are stealing and robbing God (Malachi 3:8).
When God receives His portion of all your income, He becomes your
financial partner, sharing the profits. Tithing correctly is the
solution to ending your financial worries.
We, in our individual lives, must walk in the light of God (John 12:35).
Trust God to supply every need, as He has promised (Philippians 4:19).
God promises to bless and prosper the tither! God keeps His promises!
"Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say,
Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings"
thereof are the ways of death” (Proverbs 14:12; 16:25).
God promises to prosper tithe payers. God says in (Malachi 3:10)
“Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat
in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts,
if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a
blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it”.
In (Deuteronomy 14:22) God’s law tells us that we should tithe the
“increase” we receive .The gross income that comes to us as a result
of our own productive efforts, income that we earn ourselves.
A tithe payer prospers, his needs are always supplied.
Those who tithe are not often in want (Psalm 37:25).
The greater rewards for submission to the tithing law are eternal!
“Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound
to your account” (Philippians 4:17).
God promises that His people will always have something to give
to His work (Deuteronomy 16:16-17). He wants us to be happy,
joyful people, blessed and prosperous (3 John 2).
“Honour the Lord with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of
all thine increase: So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and
thy presses shall burst out with new wine” (Proverbs 3:9-10).
In Galatians 6:7, Paul reminds us that God is not mocked,
and that which we sow we shall surely reap.
“Behold, ye have sinned against the Lord: and be sure
your sin will find you out” (Numbers 32:23)
“Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness;
and all these things shall be added unto you” (Matthew 6:33).
We must remember that all we have comes from God (Deuteronomy 10:14).
The first tenth, in addition to offerings, is His portion.
The remainder He gives freely to us. However, if we take to ourselves
that which is God’s, we are stealing and robbing God (Malachi 3:8).
When God receives His portion of all your income, He becomes your
financial partner, sharing the profits. Tithing correctly is the
solution to ending your financial worries.
We, in our individual lives, must walk in the light of God (John 12:35).
Trust God to supply every need, as He has promised (Philippians 4:19).
God promises to bless and prosper the tither! God keeps His promises!
"Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say,
Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings"
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Well, I guess Jesus Christ must have been awfully disobedient because all He got out of life was death on a cross and no prosperity at all.
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The conundrum is that Jesus wouldn't have been a tithe payer. The law only required Israelites to pay the tax if they raised cattle and and/or crops. Carpenters, sandal makers, tent makers, retailers, etc. were not required to pay tithe.
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"WE" should tithe. Might I remind you that "we" are not under the old covenant laws. That covenant did not include any other nation and ended at Calvary. God's tithing laws for Israel only included farmers and Levites
I paid the tax for years and yes God took care of our needs. Now I don't pay tithe and God is still taking care of our needs.
I don't believe that verse is telling us to tithe.
And that I am.
What you have done in your post is created a false hood about tithing. First of all even Jesus who was under the old covenant's laws would not have been a tithe payer. It is a false premise that God is going to bless you because you give a tenth of your increase. Unless you were a farmer and under the old covenant all of the verses you came up with do not apply. I certainly have not robbed God of money and I do not have any financial worries.
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Gotcha. That explains why those nasty sinners and non-tithe payers like Paul, Peter, Mark, Luke, Matthew, and John never did prosper and ended up among those in heaven. I am very relieved, however, to learn that I would never have been expected to pay a tithe to my local Levitical priest.
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Yep, those re the things that tithe paying churches don't tell their members. Elle even went so far as to write the following:
We should regularly reserve something for God's cause, that He may not be robbed of the portion which He claims. When we rob God we rob ourselves also. We give up the heavenly treasure for the sake of having more of this earth. This is a loss that we cannot afford to sustain. (5T 271.3)
The man who has been unfortunate, and finds himself in debt, should not take the Lord's portion to cancel his debts to his fellow men. He should consider that in these transactions he is being tested, and that in reserving the Lord's portion for his own use he is robbing the Giver. He is debtor to God for all that he has, but he becomes a double debtor when he uses the Lord's reserved fund in paying debts to human beings. "Unfaithfulness to God" is written against his name in the books of heaven. He has an account to settle with God for appropriating the Lord's means for his own convenience. And the want of principle shown in his misappropriation of God's means will be revealed in his management of other matters. It will be seen in all matters connected with his own business. The man who will rob God is cultivating traits of character that will cut him off from admittance into the family of God above. (6T 391.1)
We should regularly reserve something for God's cause, that He may not be robbed of the portion which He claims. When we rob God we rob ourselves also. We give up the heavenly treasure for the sake of having more of this earth. This is a loss that we cannot afford to sustain. (5T 271.3)
The man who has been unfortunate, and finds himself in debt, should not take the Lord's portion to cancel his debts to his fellow men. He should consider that in these transactions he is being tested, and that in reserving the Lord's portion for his own use he is robbing the Giver. He is debtor to God for all that he has, but he becomes a double debtor when he uses the Lord's reserved fund in paying debts to human beings. "Unfaithfulness to God" is written against his name in the books of heaven. He has an account to settle with God for appropriating the Lord's means for his own convenience. And the want of principle shown in his misappropriation of God's means will be revealed in his management of other matters. It will be seen in all matters connected with his own business. The man who will rob God is cultivating traits of character that will cut him off from admittance into the family of God above. (6T 391.1)
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