Danthemailman
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- Jul 18, 2017
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Ditto.Dan, I accept you as a saved brother -- and if I get stuck with the likes of you as family forever with Jesus, that will be a complete joy. YOU are "the treasure I can take with me."
In regards to the prodigal son, all three parables in Luke 15 were in rebuke to the Pharisees and scribes who complained, saying, “This Man receives sinners and eats with them." (Luke 15:22) Eternal IN-securists will try to use the parable of the prodigal son to prove that believers can lose their salvation by arguing that the prodigal son was spiritually alive, then spiritually died (lost his salvation) and was spiritually alive again (regained his salvation) from Luke 15:32 based on certain translations which read: ..thy brother was dead, and is alive AGAIN (KJV) ..for your brother was dead and is alive AGAIN (NKJV) ..this brother of yours was dead and is alive AGAIN (NIV)"License-to-sin" is OSAS #1, as I said thankfully most do not hold this; it's easy to refute. But others have been heard to say, "Well he was backslidden but SAVED" (for instance the Prodigal Son), and that is Antinomianism.
Yet others will argue that in this parable, being made "alive AGAIN" foreshadows the "born AGAIN" experience that Jesus spoke of in John 3:3. Of course Jesus wasn't talking about being born again spiritually again and again. We are born once physically and born "again" once spiritually. I find it interesting that certain translations of Luke 15:32 simply say your brother was dead, and is alive; he was lost, and is found (ESV); your brother was dead, but now he is alive. He was lost, but now he is found (NCV); this brother of yours was dead and has come to life; he was lost and has been found (NRS); this brother of yours was dead and has begun to live, and was lost and has been found (NAS).
We are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation. From beginning "have been saved through faith" (Ephesians 2:8) to end "receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls" (1 Peter 1:9) salvation is through faith and is not by works. Those who are permanently deceived away from God demonstrate a spurious faith.Please see 1Pet1:4-5 --- the inheritance is imperishable and will not fade away, it is reserved in Heaven for us, who are protected by the power of God THROUGH FAITH" -- which way does that faith flow? RT's say "faith is a unilateral gift FROM God TO His elect/favorites", but Scripture says faith to salvation flows from us to God. You'll have to go to Greek on Rom1:17, the righteousness of God is revealed from BEGINNING faith to ENDING faith; as it is written the righteous shall live BY faith. See A.T.Robertson, "from faith-the-start, to faith-the-goal". How was Eve deceived to turn away from God?
Why does Paul say we are at the same risk of deception away from God, as Eve experienced? 2Cor11:3!
Those who permanently fall away demonstrate that their faith was never firmly rooted and established from the start. There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers.I think (hope!) that eventually you will be persuaded by the preponderance of "don't-fall-away" verses you're being given. Did you see the comment on all of Hebrews?
Luke 8:18 - Therefore take heed how you hear. For whoever has, to him more will be given; and whoever does not have, even what he seems to have will be taken from him. In verse 15, we see that only the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience.Whatchyer' missing, is Luke8:18, "take care how you LISTEN" -- that is an imperative to be LIKE "fruitfully-growing-seed-on-good-soil, don't be LIKE seed-on-bad-soil"! In no way can verse 18 fit "God decides it" -- why then would it matter whether or not we take care how we listen? I'm sorry, if it's the GROUND that determines how the seed grows, then we have to mark out Lk8:18, and we have to charge GOD with making soil "good" or "bad". Only He could have done it! And that is the same offense that made Jesus white-hot-furious in Matt9, if God had any complicity in making people sinful, then His house is divided!
In Hebrews 6:7-8, we read - For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; but if it bears thorns and briars, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned. In this metaphor relating to agriculture, those who receive final judgment are compared to land that bears no vegetation or useful fruit, but rather bears thorns and thistles. We read in scripture that good fruit is a sign of spiritual life and a lack of good fruit is a sign of false believers (Matthew 3:8-10; 7:15-20; 12:33-35) so we have an indication that the evidence of one's spiritual condition is the fruit they bear (whether good or bad), suggesting that the writer of Hebrews is talking about people who are not genuine believers.Please see Heb6:7-8 --- ONE field is tilled, it can produce EITHER good fruit (and be blessed) or thorns/thistles and be cursed/burned. Why is that, Dan? Who decides? The answer is in verses 11-12 --- we need diligence to realize the full assurance of hope until the end, that we not be sluggish but imitators of those WHO by faith and patience inherit the promises. Can anyone deny what Heb6 is teaching? (In context with verses 4-6, if a truly born-again person, METOCHOS-PARTNERS of the Holy Spirit, and that person is then falling away, it is adunatos-impossible/powerless to restore him to repentance BECAUSE of his willful apostasy!
*Verse 9 sums it up for me. The writer is speaking to those truly saved (refers to them as BELOVED). He says that even though he speaks like this concerning THOSE types of people, He is convinced of better things concerning YOU. Things that ACCOMPANY SALVATION. Thorns and briars and falling away permanently do not accompany salvation and are not fruits worthy of authentic repentance.
In regards to partakers of the Holy Spirit, the word translated “partaker” can certainly refer to a saving partaking in Christ, as we read in Hebrews 3:14, yet it can also refer to a less than saving association or participation. See Luke 5:7 and Hebrews 1:9 - "comrades, companions," which describes one who shares with someone else as an associate in an undertaking. These Hebrews who fell away had obviously in some aspect shared in the ministry of the Holy Spirit, but in what way? There are other ministries of the Holy Spirit which precede receiving the indwelling and sealing of the Holy Spirit, which only genuine believers receive..
Those who fall away absolutely could have been affiliated closely with the fellowship of the church. Such people certainly may have experienced sorrow for sin, heard and understood the gospel and have given some assent to it and have become associated with the work of the Holy Spirit while around believers and have tasted the heavenly gift and the powers of the age to come. They may have been exposed to the true preaching of the word of God, yet have simply tasted and stopped there. People who have experienced these positive factors may be genuine Christians, yet these factors alone are not enough to give conclusive evidence that the beginning stages of the Christian life (repentance unto life, regeneration, salvation, justification etc..) have taken place for those who fell away. The experiences in Hebrews 6:4-6 are all preliminary to those decisive beginning stages of becoming a Christian, yet some draw back to perdition after receiving the 'knowledge' of the truth and do not believe to the saving of the soul, as we see in (Hebrews 10:39).
These certain individuals who fall short of obtaining salvation certainly may have become partakers of the Holy Spirit in his pre-salvation ministry, convicting of sin and righteousness and judgment to come by tasting the good word of God and temporarily responded to His drawing power which is intended to ultimately lead unbelievers to Christ, yet the writer of Hebrews does not use conclusive terms that these individuals were "indwelled by the Holy Spirit" or "sealed by the Holy Spirit" which is the guarantee of future inheritance. Genuine believers who have believed the gospel are sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession/unto the day of redemption. (Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30)
In regards to renew them again unto repentance, this does not specify whether the repentance was merely outward or genuine accompanied by saving faith. They have in some sense "repented," there may be sorrow for sins and an attempt to turn from them (moral self-reformation) that non-believers can experience. There is repentance that falls short of salvation, which is clear from Hebrews 12:7 and the reference to Esau, as well as the repentance of Judas Iscariot in Matthew 27:3. Paul refers to a repentance “without regret that leads to salvation,” which shows there is a repentance that does not lead to salvation. As with “belief/faith”, so too with “repentance,” we must always distinguish between what is substantial and results in salvation and what is spurious. Renew them again "unto salvation" would be conclusive evidence for your argument.
Continued..
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