God’s Wrath Poured Out on Jesus on the Cross

Dorothy Mae said:

I am well acquainted with these matters. I was lucky enough to have dodged the new terminology over the decades. The salvation I know is Knowing and Understanding God, if there is a term to it.
Ad hominem is attacking the person, not their words. I don’t think much of MacArthurs teaching. I know nothing about the man personally, that’s not ad hominem.

Correct
Thought you didn’t want to talk about the words anymore.

But you’ve brought up a new point. How does faith give one a credit?

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I'm a sucker for trying to get someone to understand something. Credit means to trust. When you give credit to something or someone, that means placing your trust in it or them.

Dorothy Mae said:

Ok, probably trying to rescue the fruit of years of easy grace OSAS preaching.

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The “Lordship Salvation” doctrine has been distorted today so I don't subscribe to using that term. “Lordship Salvation” which is popularized by John MacArthur (in his books) is a Trojan horse. Why?

Well, Kenneth Nally committed suicide as per his influence of John MacArthur's ministry and MacArthur said that he was still saved.

Here is a quote from an article:


Article Source:
Fundamentalist Clergymen Face Charges of 'Malpractice' When a Parishioner Turns to Suicide

John MacArthur says that a person can take the mark of the beast and they can still be saved afterwards. Listen to this audio clip by him here:


John MacArthur says,


John MacArthur confirms how one can sin and still be saved here in this video:


This is why I believe the Lordship Salvation doctrine promoted by John MacArthur is a trojan horse. The version of holy living he is talking about is not the one defined in the Bible.

Dorothy Mae said:

Few christians I know can really identify WHEN God is discipline them. They don’t know Him well enough for that.

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I am explaining poorly, since you do not understand. I am talking about the extremely severe discipline we receive (and actually continue receiving when taking the Lord’s Supper, a reexperiencing) for our rebellious disobedient sins. The Jews went through some severe hardships, but there was no way for them to be severely disciplined for their rebellious disobedience and live prior to Christ going to the cross. Only then could they experience a death blow to their heart (Acts 2:37). Our discipline is in our being empathetically crucified with Christ, which for God experiencing it would be greater than what Jesus went through. As our Love for Christ grows our empathy for Him will grow.

There are other ways to interpret discipline which can be just training and really not be the result of sin, but more weakness, but I am talking about discipline being instead of punishment.

When you first realized what your personal sins caused Christ to experience, did you experience a death blow to your heart?

Yes, the greatest Love possible is seen at the cross which allows us to continue standing, but it is not a happy occasion.

Yes, I personally need Christ to go through the cross experience to believe God’s Love to forgive and thus feel justified.

Dorothy Mae said:

You assume the very thing that CANNOT be reliably known but can be claimed to be known by those in power. It’s the old “who watches the watchers” question. Many a tyrant claimed to be doing good insisting he/she KNEW! Very dangerous to give unrestricted power to sinful man.
Absolutely. To “accept” is merely to agree. Requires no action. This is especially true today where men divorce applying their theology to their lives.
As I said, “accept” means give mental ascent. Means merely agree with. No change in choices needed. Jesus demands surrender, not accept.

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Forget what people think, that has nothing to do with it.

You seem to be suggesting, since you are an adult, you do not need to be disciplined, am I right here?

As adults, our parents should just be able to tell us what to do and we do it. If we fall short, we immediately correct our behavior and move on. The problem is, it is very hard to stop sinning, so we need all the help we can get, disciplining is part of the help God is providing. Those were adults on the day of Pentecost who were cut to the heart, Paul talks of being crucified with Christ, the gospels spend lots of words describing the cruelty of the cross, Jesus’ adult followers, left Him showing their weakness, and we are all like children compared to Christ.

I did bad stuff (sinned) and God said He forgave me, but I need help realizing how significant those sins were, that God’s Love is truly that great to forgive, be given a greater reason not to sin again, and I need something that will allow me to feel comfortable being justified before God. I need this to be a learning development of a closer relationship, a process that may need repeating over time (not to be forgotten).

Do you see Loving just disciplining as having benefits even for adults?

Dorothy Mae said:

I’m saying “accepting Jesus” is not in the Bible anywhere. I didn’t write the book. I just believe it.

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I am sorry you do not like my use of the word “accepting”, because it conveys just “mental agreement”, but does “believing” convey just “mental agreement” also. Can Demons just “believe”?

In the parables of the banquet, I would say: some accept the invitation and some rejected the invitation.

God has a ton of undeserved charitable gifts including Christ going to the cross, which some adults receive and others do not receive. I see those receiving these gifts as a result of accepting these gifts, while other do not receive these gifts because they refuse them. What words would you use?

This gets into the huge topic of salvation, but let me say this:

You are right to say: “Accepting or refusing is just mental activities”. The nonbelieving sinner is not “doing” anything noble, honorable, worthy, righteous, or glorious, by being a criminal kidnapper who accepts the huge undeserved ransom payment (kidnappers accepting a ransom are not righteous). It is only after the freed child who enters the Kingdom and is showered with wonderful gifts can do anything righteous, really out of a gratitude type of Love (Godly type Love).

bling said:

You are right to say: “Accepting or refusing is just mental activities”. The nonbelieving sinner is not “doing” anything noble, honorable, worthy, righteous, or glorious, by being a criminal kidnapper who accepts the huge undeserved ransom payment (kidnappers accepting a ransom are not righteous). It is only after the freed child who enters the Kingdom and is showered with wonderful gifts can do anything righteous, really out of a gratitude type of Love (Godly type Love).

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But I believe that if we go back to sin, we become the old man or the kidnapper of our new man that is in Christ Jesus and what He has done for us. Our old man of sin seeks to justify sin and evil and darkness. Just believing in the finished work of Christ is not going to help anyone if the believer thinks they can sin and still be saved or have a belief alone on Jesus for salvation and nothing else. Jesus came to set the captives free (See the reason why Jesus died on the cross for us in Ephesians 5:25-27, and Titus 2:14). For God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12). For if we live after the flesh (sin), we will die (die spiritually), but if we put to death the misdeeds of the body (sin) by the Holy Spirit we will live (live eternally) (Romans 8:13). Yes, it is true that God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins (Romans 3:25), but we also have to walk in the light as He (Christ) is in the light (of God the Father) in order to have fellowship and in order for the blood of Jesus Christ to cleanse us from all sin (1 John 1:7). For walking in the light is defined for us by indirect wording in 1 John 2:9-11 as loving your brother (which means we abide in the light of God - 1 John 1:5). So faith is like a two sided coin. It starts off as a belief and trust in Jesus Christ and what He has done for us when He died for our sins, He was buried, and He was risen three days later, but then that faith has another side to the coin. It manifests itself in the “work of faith” (1 Thessalonians 1:3) (2 Thessalonians 1:11). This work of faith does not justify sin and evil. For without holiness, no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14). In fact, it is by grace (the power of God) that we are able to labor more abundantly than other brethren (1 Corinthians 15:10). It is by the peace of God (reconciliation between God and man) that we are able to do anything good by His inner working.

For we may even have good intentions towards God in doing good for His Kingdom and we may even want to only do good, but if we teach that a person can sin and still be saved on some level by having a belief alone in Jesus, it can lead others (even children) into justifying sin (Whether we want that to happen or not). This would also be a destruction of the picture of the ransom atonement in Christ, as well. For Christ died to set us free from our old man who took us captive towards sin and so we can then be forgiven of our past sins and live a life of holiness (i.e. therefore truly honoring the sacrifice of Christ with our life being crucified to our old selves and walking in the New Man in the likeness of the resurrection - See Romans 6).

Bible Highlighter said:

But I believe that if we go back to sin, we become the old man or the kidnapper of our new man that is in Christ Jesus and what He has done for us. Our old man of sin seeks to justify sin and evil and darkness. Just believing in the finished work of Christ is not going to help anyone if the believer thinks they can sin and still be saved or have a belief alone on Jesus for salvation and nothing else. Jesus came to set the captives free (See the reason why Jesus died on the cross for us in Ephesians 5:25-27, and Titus 2:14). For God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12). For if we live after the flesh (sin), we will die (die spiritually), but if we put to death the misdeeds of the body (sin) by the Holy Spirit we will live (live eternally) (Romans 8:13). Yes, it is true that God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins (Romans 3:25), but we also have to walk in the light as He (Christ) is in the light (of God the Father) in order to have fellowship and in order for the blood of Jesus Christ to cleanse us from all sin. For walking in the light is defined for us by indirect wording in 1 John 2:9-11 as loving your brother (which means we abide in the light of God - 1 John 1:5). So faith is like a two sided coin. It starts off as a belief and trust in Jesus Christ and what He has done for us when He died for our sins, He was buried, and He was risen three days later, but then that faith has another side to the coin. It manifests itself in the “work of faith” (1 Thessalonians 1:3) (2 Thessalonians 1:11). This work of faith does not justify sin and evil. For without holiness, no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14). In fact, it is by grace (the power of God) that we are able to labor more abundantly than other brethren (1 Corinthians 15:10). It is by the peace of God (reconciliation between God and man) that we are able to do anything good by His inner working.

For we may even have good intentions towards God in doing good for His Kingdom and we may even want to only do good, but if we teach that a person can sin and still be saved on some level by having a belief alone in Jesus, it can lead others (even children) into justifying sin (Whether we want that to happen or not). This would also be a destruction of the picture of the ransom atonement in Christ, as well. For Christ died to set us free from our old man who took us captive towards sin and so we can then be forgiven of our past sins and live a life of holiness (i.e. therefore truly honoring the sacrifice of Christ with our life being crucified to our old selves and walking in the New Man in the likeness of the resurrection - See Romans 6).

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Why do you want not to sin after becoming a Christian?

How do you keep from sinning after you become a Christian?

What are you trying to get by doing good stuff after becoming a Christian?

Some make the mistake of thinking they have some sort of lucky charm in their pocket.

Some think since they are saved (or think they are) they have a license to sin because of OSAS.

Some think since they are saved (or think they are) they have a license to sin because all they have to do is confess.

Six of one and a half dozen of the other.

I believe all versions of OSAS are bad.
For even if a person believed that holy living on some level was required for OSAS to be true, if a child hears a pastor tell them they are saved by a belief alone in Jesus and they can never lose their salvation, and they never see that Pastor again, then they can end up turning God's grace into a license for immorality like George Sodini or like Kenneth Nally. The belief itself is the problem because it can all on it's own lead a person to treat God's grace as a license to sin.

To learn more about George Sodini and Kenneth Nally, see this article here:

O.S.A.S. – THE WATCHMAN'S CRY

bling said:

Why do you want not to sin after becoming a Christian?

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Ephesians 5:25-27, Titus 2:14, Titus 2:11-12, 2 Corinthians 7:1, Titus 1:16, Hebrews 12:14, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14, Romans 8:13, and Romans 8:1 (KJB).

You said:

How do you keep from sinning after you become a Christian?

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I believe the Bible teaches that there are different ways to overcome grievous sin (mortal sin) by God's Word and with the help of Jesus:

1. Remove yourself from sinful environments (if possible) and or get rid of things that cause you to sin. In Genesis: Joseph had literally ran away from the temptation of sexual sin.
   
   
2. Pray to God so as not to be tempted. It is part of the Lord’s prayer for you to pray so as not to be tempted into sin. God will guide and protect you if you are serious in praying for this. In fact, fasting will help you with this, as well.
   
   
3. Obey God’s righteous ways. The more you love God and love others and obey His Word and stay in His Word and pray, the more you will not even have a chance to sin or do the wrong thing. But the more you walk in God's Word by the Spirit you will not fulfill the lusts of flesh (See: Galatians 5:16).
   
   
4. When you are tempted, quote Scripture. When Jesus was tempted by the devil, He quoted Scripture to defeat the devil. So when some specific sin is bothering you, find all the verses you can that are victory verses over that particular sin. A good general verse is, “The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want.” You can say these verses to yourself silently under your breath (with nobody hearing).
   
   
5. Ask for prayer from other God fearing Christians or Godly Christians to help you to overcome certain sins. The Scriptures say, bear ye one another's burdens and thus fulfill the Law of Christ. So seek true fellowship and ask for their help.
   
   
6. Hide God’s Word in your heart. Memorize Scripture. David said he hid God’s Word within his heart so that he may not sin against the Lord.
   
   
7. Confess of your sins. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

You said:

What are you trying to get by doing good stuff after becoming a Christian?

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Faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17).
The faith is hearing all of the Bible and not just the parts we want to hear.

In other words, to answer your question:

It would be applying proper faith (the other side of the coin of faith, i.e. the “work of faith”) so as to continue to access the saving grace of God.

Important Note: The first side of the coin of faith is in receiving Jesus Christ as our Savior (John 1:12), and in trusting in the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, and in seeking forgiveness with Him (Romans 10:13).

Anyways, make no mistake that the other side of the coin of faith is the work of faith.

How so?

Well, first, Paul talks about how there is the “work of faith” in 1 Thessalonians 1:3, and 2 Thessalonians 1:11. Second, we learn in 1 John 1:7 that if we walk in the light (abide in the light of God - 1 John 1:6, and love our brother - 1 John 2:9-12) the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. For faith without works is dead (James 2:17) (Also see James 1:12, and James 1:21).


Note:

In regards to Jude 1:4 saying that a these individuals denied Jesus Christ: Again, a person can deny God by a lack of works (See again: Titus 1:16).

Bible Highlighter said:

Ephesians 5:25-27, Titus 2:14, Titus 2:11-12, 2 Corinthians 7:1, Titus 1:16, Hebrews 12:14, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14, Romans 8:13, and Romans 8:1 (KJB).



I believe the Bible teaches that there are different ways to overcome grievous sin (mortal sin) by God's Word and with the help of Jesus:

1. Remove yourself from sinful environments (if possible) and or get rid of things that cause you to sin. In Genesis: Joseph had literally ran away from the temptation of sexual sin.
   
   
2. Pray to God so as not to be tempted. It is part of the Lord’s prayer for you to pray so as not to be tempted into sin. God will guide and protect you if you are serious in praying for this. In fact, fasting will help you with this, as well.
   
   
3. Obey God’s righteous ways. The more you love God and love others and obey His Word and stay in His Word and pray, the more you will not even have a chance to sin or do the wrong thing. But the more you walk in God's Word by the Spirit you will not fulfill the lusts of flesh (See: Galatians 5:16).
   
   
4. When you are tempted, quote Scripture. When Jesus was tempted by the devil, He quoted Scripture to defeat the devil. So when some specific sin is bothering you, find all the verses you can that are victory verses over that particular sin. A good general verse is, “The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want.” You can say these verses to yourself silently under your breath (with nobody hearing).
   
   
5. Ask for prayer from other God fearing Christians or Godly Christians to help you to overcome certain sins. The Scriptures say, bear ye one another's burdens and thus fulfill the Law of Christ. So seek true fellowship and ask for their help.
   
   
6. Hide God’s Word in your heart. Memorize Scripture. David said he hid God’s Word within his heart so that he may not sin against the Lord.
   
   
7. Confess of your sins. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17).
The faith is hearing all of the Bible and not just the parts we want to hear.

In other words, to answer your question:

It would be applying proper faith (the other side of the coin of faith, i.e. the “work of faith”) so as to continue to access the saving grace of God.

Important Note: The first side of the coin of faith is in receiving Jesus Christ as our Savior (John 1:12), and in trusting in the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, and in seeking forgiveness with Him (Romans 10:13).

Anyways, make no mistake that the other side of the coin of faith is the work of faith.

How so?

Well, first, Paul talks about how there is the “work of faith” in 1 Thessalonians 1:3, and 2 Thessalonians 1:11. Second, we learn in 1 John 1:7 that if we walk in the light (abide in the light of God - 1 John 1:6, and love our brother - 1 John 2:9-12) the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. For faith without works is dead (James 2:17) (Also see James 1:12, and James 1:21).

John the baptist said,
“Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance,...” (Luke 3:8).

“...the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.” (Luke 3:9).

Jesus said:
“And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 25:30).

The apostle Paul said that one of the marks of deceivers is that we can deny God by a lack of works. For it is written:

“...there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, (Titus 1:10) ....
“They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.” (Titus 1:16).

Jesus said:

“And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:29).

Peter said,

“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you,” (2 Peter 2:1) ... “Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray,...” (2 Peter 2:14-15).

Jude 1:4 (NIV) says,
“For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.”​

Note:

In regards to Jude 1:4 saying that a these individuals denied Jesus Christ: Again, a person can deny God by a lack of works (See again: Titus 1:16).

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Have you ever been around a group of Christians, who really kept from sinning for long periods of time as far as you knew?

As Christians we cannot get more in then we have been given in this life and in the life to come, since we have already been given everything up front with the exception of actually living in heaven right now. We already have the deed to a heavenly home, it is our birthright, so it cannot be lost like a set of keys, stolen, paid for and even God will not take it back, but we can give our birthright up like Esau gave his up.

As Christians we want to do good stuff out of a gratitude type of Love (Godly Love). The writers have given us lots of ways to please God and what is not pleasing to God. We want to grow our Love through use and not let it wither away, because if Godly type Love losses its value for us we might decide to give it away.

bling said:

Have you ever been around a group of Christians, who really kept from sinning for long periods of time as far as you knew?

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First problem, you did not even address any of the verses I put forth, but you just put forth what you believe. Meaning, your belief does not appear to stand up to any kind of scrutiny of what Scripture actually says. Second problem, you don’t appear to be aware that Christians walk by faith and not by sight; For without faith it is impossible to please God. Your view appears to need sight confirmation in order to establish the faith when the Scriptures say the exact opposite. For tell me, how does your faith in God’s Word (the Bible) appear to agree with verses like 1 Peter 4:1-2, Galatians 5:16, Galatians 5:24, Titus 1:16, Romans 8:1 KJB, Romans 8:13, and 2 Corinthians 7:1? For if you believe these verses at face value, the question you ask does not exist within the faith and it is merely the construct of the imaginations of men.

You said:

As Christians we cannot get more in then we have been given in this life and in the life to come, since we have already been given everything up front with the exception of actually living in heaven right now. We already have the deed to a heavenly home, it is our birthright, so it cannot be lost like a set of keys, stolen, paid for and even God will not take it back, but we can give our birthright up like Esau gave his up.

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Right, and sin can cause us to lose our birthright.

Hebrews 12:14-17 KJV says:
[14] “Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: [15] Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled; [16] Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright. [17] For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.”

You said:

As Christians we want to do good stuff out of a gratitude type of Love (Godly Love). The writers have given us lots of ways to please God and what is not pleasing to God. We want to grow our Love through use and not let it wither away, because if Godly type Love losses its value for us we might decide to give it away.

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Your speaking of Easy Believism. There is no value in really doing in any good in Belief Alone-ism, so a person can just do as they please. But if holy actions is required on some level, then one does not really hold to the view that a belief alone in Jesus really saves. For even the demons believe. Yet, they are not saved.

Dorothy Mae said:

On this we agree. I see no good coming out of OSAS and the potential for bad is great.

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OSAS has a catch to it though. Anyone who behaves in certain ways towards sin and against God, was never really saved to begin with. There has to be clear evidence of salvation to claim OSAS. Or in other words those who OSAS actually applies to, meet the standards of being saved set forth in 1 John etc.

So in one version there is you can lose your salvation due to certain behavior.
In the other version certain behavior means someone is/was not really saved.

It's the same outcome either way.

Dorothy Mae said:

Well, I am changing my mind on accepting as a word. It is because of the cheap gospel offered now so easily of merely accept by repeating this prayer and there is no pain, no repentance, just admit you are not perfect (but don't worry as no one is) and you can go to Heaven and we will assure you that this will take place no matter how you live from now on.

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To me acceptance means accepting the whole package, including what Jesus taught and commanded. Acceptance is an ongoing process. Accepting our sin, faults and weakness. Accepting that God's way I better than ours. Accepting that we need to love our neighbor. It's a matter of building up the spirit within and breaking down the flesh without. Matthew 26:41

Dorothy Mae said:

You are convincing me. It is can be applied. I explain to the other poster it was more a reacting against the cheap gospel that asks a man to "accept Jesus" meaning pray a prayer admitting you are not perfect (sinful) and you are going to heaven no matter what you do.

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I'm sure there are those who think 1 John 1:9 says you are going to heaven no matter what you do, just as long as you confess your sins.

Isn't that pretty much the same thing, the same attitude? Commit a great sin and then all you have to do is confess it ie ask for forgiveness and you get a clean slate. And then there's Jesus saying to forgive seventy times seven. So all one has to do is keep asking for forgiveness and they can sin and sin and still be saved.

Dorothy Mae said:

I am sure not if one can do that and repent afterwards. You see, repentance is necessary for forgiveness not a formal asking for it as though one is fulfilling a requirement. How can one be sorry for that which one planned before hand ASSUMING forgiveness is a given? There might be that the one who cold heartedly planned to sin does not find forgiveness by asking God. One does not sense one is forgiven because one is not. Maybe, for example, God requires the perpetrator to ask man to forgive him. Maybe God will require the perpetrator to make good to the recepient of the sin. That is called restitution. Maybe it is not so cheap as merely saying words. What if God requires MORE as the heart grows continually hard.

The problem in general is one assumes a kind of legal arrangment instead of a relationship. It is like asking one's spouse how often one can go astray before there is no more forgiveness and the marriage is over thinking one has a document that bids the other to being married to you as so there ought to actually be no limit nor matter how one behaves. You see, in the 70 x 7 still requires the offender to ask a man for forgiveness.

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What I'm thinking is if one is looking for a "license to sin" one can do so and use scripture to back it up. He could point out that Jesus forgave everyone who abused and then crucified Him without them coming anywhere close to repenting and asking for forgiveness. Luke 23:34.

I think if it were not for Luke 23:34 we would assume that no one who participated in the murder of an innocent man, not to mention that man being God the Son, obtained forgiveness. Unless maybe if they truly repented and begged for forgiveness afterwards. But that's not how it happened. They were forgiven on the spot while still in the act of participating in His murder.

Personally I believe it's just simply best not to put God to the test. Really best to avoid grieving God no matter if He completely forgives you.

MMXX said:

I'm sure there are those who think 1 John 1:9 says you are going to heaven no matter what you do, just as long as you confess your sins.

Isn't that pretty much the same thing, the same attitude? Commit a great sin and then all you have to do is confess it ie ask for forgiveness and you get a clean slate. And then there's Jesus saying to forgive seventy times seven. So all one has to do is keep asking for forgiveness and they can sin and sin and still be saved.

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Either mind set is wrong. If a believer PLANS to sin again in the future and thinks they can just confess of that sin later, they are not going to be forgiven. If a person just believes confession of sin in 1 John 1:9 is referring to Initial Salvation and they don't believe any sin can separate them from God, and they accept that they sin but they do not seek to change, the result is the same. Both types of believers are justifying sin. Confession of sin goes hand in hand with forsaking sin (with the intention of not sinning ever again). For he that confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy (Proverbs 28:13). 1 John 1:9 is for believers who honestly stumble into sin and who are honestly seeking to overcome grievous sin (mortal sin) in this life. Jesus says to “sin no more” two times in Scripture (John 5:14, and John 8:11), The apostle John says to “sin not” (1 John 2:1). Paul says let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God (2 Corinthians 7:1). In my experience, folks who believe as you do just cannot accept these parts of Scripture. They must either ignore these verses, or they must change them to fit the idea that they will always sin (with the thinking they are saved). They talk about how God is a loving father. But they do not accept that God is also wrathful towards sin and He is a God of justice, too. Anyways, my point here is that believers need to overcome grievous sin (mortal sin) in order to have eternal life.

For the Bible teaches that sin can separate us from God from Matthew to Revelation (Matthew 5:28-30) (Matthew 6:15) (Matthew 12:37) (Matthew 25:31-46) (Luke 9:62) (1 John 3:15) (Galatians 5:19-21) (Revelation 21:8).

The Bible teaches that obedience to God's commands is tied to eternal life from Matthew to Revelation (See Matthew 19:17-19) (Luke 10:25-28) (1 John 1:7) (1 John 3:23) (Hebrews 5:9) (Revelation 22:14). You never really address these kinds of verses. It's because you cannot for nobody can really change God's Word in what it plainly says.