Christ gave his life as a ransom

Victor in Christ · Mar 23, 2021

bling said:
A kidnapper accepts or rejects the payment for the child, so the kidnapper is not trying to keep the payment from ever being offered.

Satan is not the kidnapper because:
1. It makes satan out to be like an equal to God, giving satan a much higher position then he has.

2. The “Ransom Theory of Atonement” with satan being the kidnapper developed early on when many people seemed to think there was a literal war going on in heaven with satan taking captives. At that time on earth kidnapping people and asking for ransoms was standard practice with people not having cash in banks or large sums of money readily available (money was in land, cattle, ships and assess that would have to be sold over time).

3. People like to put the blame on someone else for not being a child of God and so they have satan holding them back. They might blame Adam and Eve also, but the truth is “we are the criminals keeping ourselves from becoming a child of God.” Tell me this: If you refuse to accept Jesus Christ and Him crucified (described by Christ as the ransom payment) can you be set free?

4. Paying satan is not going to change satan’s mind, but if we accept Jesus Christ and Him crucified will our mind be changed?

5. If God can just as easily and safely take anything from satan, then why would it not be wrong for God to “pay” His enemy?

6. Satan cannot “stop” God from doing anything without God desiring to do it. When satan temped even Christ it was to get Him to do what Christ would be wanting to do, which is not what Christ was wanting to do.

7. How can satan stop Christ? Satan did not cause Eve to sin, but tempted her with something she was wanting to do (this is like all of us).

I really don't understand your points, it speaks like an educated humanist and it reads like Satan's deception and sin is not 'real' and only to do with us...nothing to do with Satan. ?????

The bible doesn't say God paid off Satan in a ransom like you seem to mention. The ransom God made was giving his only begotton son (Christ Jesus) to die on the cross for our sin, the sin which damns us all to hell (unless we repent and accept/follow Christ). If we live without Christ's offer of Salvation we'll die an eternal hell with Satan and his fallen angels. If we accept Christ's offer of Salvation we'll live an eternal live with him in Christ's heaven, not Satan's earthly heaven.

Revelation 20 Christ's reign of vengange. Revelation 21+22 Christ's heaven where Satan is banished and never to be found again.

Victor in Christ · Mar 23, 2021

bling said:
Simple: If a person rejects "Jesus Christ and him Crucified" (discribed by Christ as the ransom payment) that person is not set free and thus a child is kept out of the Kingdom where God resides. If the person does accept "Jesus Christ and Him crucified" then that person is set free and able to enter the kingdom as a child of God.
Who is holding the sinner out of the Kingdom (the kidnapper)? Do you blame God, Adam & Eve, bad Luck, satan or the person themselves?

its Satan in this world. Job 2:2, Ephesians 6:12 The heavenly places mentioned in Ephesians 6:12 is the heaven of this world, not the 3rd heaven Paul reached (where Christ sits at the right hand of the Father)

Pavel Mosko · Mar 23, 2021

zoidar said:
Ransom? How do we understand this, that Christ gave his life as a ransom? A ransom is a price someone pays to the kidnappers, for them to let go of the captives.

The Greek word used is: Lütron

"just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many."
— Matthew 20:28

Maybe some of you got a bigger insight?

Christ love!

Ransom theory of atonement - Wikipedia.

chad kincham · Mar 23, 2021

zoidar said:
Ransom? How do we understand this, that Christ gave his life as a ransom? A ransom is a price someone pays to the kidnappers, for them to let go of the captives.

The Greek word used is: Lütron

"just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many."
— Matthew 20:28

Maybe some of you got a bigger insight?

Christ love!

This from Albert Barnes commentary:

To give his life a ransom for many - The word “ransom” means literally a price paid for the redemption of captives. In war, when prisoners are taken by an enemy, the money demanded for their release is called a ransom; that is, it is the means by which they are set at liberty. So anything that releases anyone from a state of punishment, or suffering, or sin, is called a ransom. People are by nature captives to sin. They are sold under it. They are under condemnation, Eph 2:3; Rom 3:9-20, Rom 3:23; 1Jn 5:19. They are under a curse, Gal 3:10. They are in love with sin They are under its withering dominion, and are exposed to death eternal, Eze 18:4; Psa 9:17; Psa 11:6; Psa 68:2; Psa 139:19; Mat 25:46; Rom 2:6-9. They must have perished unless there had been some way by which they could he rescued. This was done by the death of Jesus - by giving his life a ransom. The meaning is, that he died in the place of sinners, and that God was willing to accept the pains of his death in the place of the eternal suffering of the redeemed. The reasons why such a ransom was necessary are:

1. That God had declared that the sinner shall die; that is, that he would punish, or show his hatred to, all sin.

2. That all people had sinned, and, if justice was to take its regular course, all must perish.

3. That man could make no atonement for his own sins. All that he could do, were he holy, would be only to do his duty, and would make no amends for the past. Repentance and future obedience would not blot away one sin.

4. No man was pure, and no angel could make atonement. God was pleased, therefore, to appoint his only-begotten Son to make such a ransom. See Joh 3:16; 1Jn 4:10; 1Pe 1:18-19; Rev 13:8; Joh 1:29; Eph 5:2; Heb 8:2-7; Isa 53:1-12; This is commonly called the atonement. See the notes at Rom 5:2.

zoidar · Mar 23, 2021

Sorry got stuck in another thread. Thanks for interesting replies! Time for bed. Giving some replies tomorrow.

Bible Highlighter · Mar 23, 2021

bling said:
The Bible refers to Jesus’ life and sacrifice as a literal ransom payment:

Mark 10:45 For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

1 Timothy 2:6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time

Heb. 9: 15…now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

We do have the blood specifically mentioned in Revelation 5:9 They sing a new song: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slaughtered and by your blood you ransomed for God saints from every tribe and language and people and nation;

Atonement is a huge misunderstood topic which all the theories do a poor job explaining, look at just one aspect they do not address:

Are we in agreement:

1. Jesus life is the unbelievable huge ransom payment?

2. The ransom payment was made to set children free to go to the Kingdom and be with the Father?

3. Deity (Jesus and God both) made this unbelievable huge payment?

4. All these fit perfectly a ransom scenario?

5. The scripture is not describing Jesus’ cruel torturous death on the cross as being like a ransom payment, but as being a ransom payment?

6. This was all done for “many” and “God’s saints” in some way and in other ways for “all” people?

You may have a problem with “6”, but I am just quoting scripture.

If it is not a kidnapping then it is no “ransoming”, but the Bible tells us there is a ransom payment at least being offered and definitely made for “many” and “God’s saints”.

Peter even help us out more by contrasting the unbelievable huge payment of Christ to just a payment of silver and gold. Who might take silver and gold, so it can be a good analogy for Peter? 1 Peter 1:18 You know that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your ancestors, not with perishable things like silver or gold,

A kidnapper holds back the parent’s children awaiting an acceptable ransom payment, so who do you blame for keeping children out of the Kingdom, since we sure do not want to blame ourselves?
The Kidnapper cannot be God since He is not an undeserving criminal kidnapper holding His own children back.
Also the Kidnapper would not be satan since God has the power to take without paying anything from satan. There is no cosmic Law saying you have got to pay the kidnapper and it would be wrong to do, satan is fully undeserving.
So who is the kidnapper?

When you go up to a nonbelieving sinner what are you trying to get him/her to accept: A doctrine, a denomination, a book, a theology, or something else.NO, you want the nonbeliever to accept “Jesus Christ and Him Crucified” and if he does a child of God is released to enter the Kingdom and be with God, but if the sinner rejects “Jesus Christ and Him crucifies” a child is kept out of the Kingdom.

Does this not sound very much like a kidnapping scenario with a ransom being offered?

“Jesus Christ and Him crucified” is described in scripture as the ransom payment?

Would the sinner holding a child of God out of the Kingdom of God describe a kidnapper?

“Jesus Christ and Him crucified” is a huge sacrificial payment, like you find with children being ransomed?

For the most part, I agree with you, Bling.
Well said. I believe the old man needs to be crucified. This is only made possible by what Jesus did when He died for our sins. We were all doomed to being captives to sin, but Jesus had come to set the captives free.

May God bless you today.

Neogaia777 · Mar 23, 2021

God had to satisfy Satan and the fallen angels demands for justice, so that others would not fall, or the whole Kingdom fall, and also so as to not present a double standard in redeeming us, while at the same time condemning them, etc...

This was (fully) satisfied/done/finished in and with Christ, etc...

One ransom, the Highest ransom, for many, etc...

Many of us anyway, etc...

God Bless!

zoidar · Mar 24, 2021

Butterball1 said:
1 Corinthians 6:20; 7:23 Christians have been bought with a price.

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood."

When a ransom is paid, it is followed by a release. The purchase price to bring about the release of men from the bondge of sin was the blood of Christ. Christ's blood washes away the sins of men releasing men from the bondage of sin. The purchase price paid is sufficient to being about the release of all who are in the bondage of sin.

But we are not released until we believe. In the kidnapper case, the captives are released when the ransom is paid. So it's not a completely perfect anology.

zoidar · Mar 24, 2021

bling said:
The Bible refers to Jesus’ life and sacrifice as a literal ransom payment:

Mark 10:45 For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

1 Timothy 2:6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time

Heb. 9: 15…now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

We do have the blood specifically mentioned in Revelation 5:9 They sing a new song: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slaughtered and by your blood you ransomed for God saints from every tribe and language and people and nation;

Atonement is a huge misunderstood topic which all the theories do a poor job explaining, look at just one aspect they do not address:

Are we in agreement:

1. Jesus life is the unbelievable huge ransom payment?

2. The ransom payment was made to set children free to go to the Kingdom and be with the Father?

3. Deity (Jesus and God both) made this unbelievable huge payment?

4. All these fit perfectly a ransom scenario?

5. The scripture is not describing Jesus’ cruel torturous death on the cross as being like a ransom payment, but as being a ransom payment?

6. This was all done for “many” and “God’s saints” in some way and in other ways for “all” people?

You may have a problem with “6”, but I am just quoting scripture.

If it is not a kidnapping then it is no “ransoming”, but the Bible tells us there is a ransom payment at least being offered and definitely made for “many” and “God’s saints”.

Peter even help us out more by contrasting the unbelievable huge payment of Christ to just a payment of silver and gold. Who might take silver and gold, so it can be a good analogy for Peter? 1 Peter 1:18 You know that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your ancestors, not with perishable things like silver or gold,

A kidnapper holds back the parent’s children awaiting an acceptable ransom payment, so who do you blame for keeping children out of the Kingdom, since we sure do not want to blame ourselves?
The Kidnapper cannot be God since He is not an undeserving criminal kidnapper holding His own children back.
Also the Kidnapper would not be satan since God has the power to take without paying anything from satan. There is no cosmic Law saying you have got to pay the kidnapper and it would be wrong to do, satan is fully undeserving.
So who is the kidnapper?

When you go up to a nonbelieving sinner what are you trying to get him/her to accept: A doctrine, a denomination, a book, a theology, or something else.NO, you want the nonbeliever to accept “Jesus Christ and Him Crucified” and if he does a child of God is released to enter the Kingdom and be with God, but if the sinner rejects “Jesus Christ and Him crucifies” a child is kept out of the Kingdom.

Does this not sound very much like a kidnapping scenario with a ransom being offered?

“Jesus Christ and Him crucified” is described in scripture as the ransom payment?

Would the sinner holding a child of God out of the Kingdom of God describe a kidnapper?

“Jesus Christ and Him crucified” is a huge sacrificial payment, like you find with children being ransomed?

"5. The scripture is not describing Jesus’ cruel torturous death on the cross as being like a ransom payment, but as being a ransom payment?"

This stood out to me in your post. Maybe you like to say something more about it?

bling · Mar 24, 2021

Victor in Christ said:
I really don't understand your points, it speaks like an educated humanist and it reads like Satan's deception and sin is not 'real' and only to do with us...nothing to do with Satan. ?????

The bible doesn't say God paid off Satan in a ransom like you seem to mention. The ransom God made was giving his only begotton son (Christ Jesus) to die on the cross for our sin, the sin which damns us all to hell (unless we repent and accept/follow Christ). If we live without Christ's offer of Salvation we'll die an eternal hell with Satan and his fallen angels. If we accept Christ's offer of Salvation we'll live an eternal live with him in Christ's heaven, not Satan's earthly heaven.

Revelation 20 Christ's reign of vengange. Revelation 21+22 Christ's heaven where Satan is banished and never to be found again.

I was very clear: “Satan is not the kidnapper” then I gave seven reasons why satan would not be the kidnapper.

Who is the kidnapper then?

You say: “If we accept Christ's offer of Salvation we'll live an eternal live with him in Christ's heaven…” Which is good, but it is not just “the gift of salvation” we are accepting, but the person Himself (Jesus Christ). Salvation is one of the side gifts which comes along with Christ. As God is Love, so Christ is Love, and we want that Love to be our Love, so we can Love Deity and others, fulfilling our objective.

Jesus Christ and Him crucified is being offered as a free undeserving gift (huge undeserved ransom) for us as sinners to accept or reject.

Satan has no place in heaven, but unfortunately does have an objective roaming the earth while the earth exists.

Yes! Christ died for (because of) our sins, but even though that tells us why Christ was tortured, humiliated and murdered, it does not tell us in those few word: How this huge ransom payment directly benefits us. How does Christ’s cruel torture, humiliation and murder impact you?

bling · Mar 24, 2021

Victor in Christ said:
its Satan in this world. Job 2:2, Ephesians 6:12 The heavenly places mentioned in Ephesians 6:12 is the heaven of this world, not the 3rd heaven Paul reached (where Christ sits at the right hand of the Father)

Right, I am not talking about this?

bling · Mar 24, 2021

Neogaia777 said:
God had to satisfy Satan and the fallen angels demands for justice, so that others would not fall, or the whole Kingdom fall, and also so as to not present a double standard in redeeming us, while at the same time condemning them, etc...

This was (fully) satisfied/done/finished in and with Christ, etc...

One ransom, the Highest ransom, for many, etc...

Many of us anyway, etc...

God Bless!

There is no cosmic "Law" out there saying: "You have to pay a ransom". God never has or will "owe" anyone anything. God would not be "satisfying satan?

bling · Mar 24, 2021

zoidar said:
"5. The scripture is not describing Jesus’ cruel torturous death on the cross as being like a ransom payment, but as being a ransom payment?"

This stood out to me in your post. Maybe you like to say something more about it?

Look at the 5 writers discribing the kidnapping/ransom scenerio, they never say: "like a ransom". Jesus had a very high vocapulary each word was perfectly said to best communicate to His first century audience.

Cormack · Mar 24, 2021

Just as a brief argument from authority, many of the best Christian philosophical and theological academics believe that the claims espoused by the “Christus Victor” model of the atonement are the earliest on record.

Christus Victor is the element of the atoning work of Christ that emphasizes the triumph of Christ over the evil powers of the world, through which he rescues his people and establishes a new relationship between God and the world.

In this model Christ was the lure on a hook, baiting the powers of hell and earth into seizing Him and taking His life, only for these wicked actors to later realise, unlike the mass of humanity that they could hold under their power, Jesus wasn’t able to be held by death or the grave. Christ “descended into hell” and springs the captives loose, plundering Satan of his ill gotten gains and setting the captives free.

Even staunch advocates of penal substitution like Dr. William Lane Craig have argued that Christus Victor was the earliest atonement model in the marketplace of ideas. That doesn’t mean it’s a true description of what happened at the cross, but if it’s the earliest view, that’s a feather in the cap for people who believe it.

Bible Highlighter · Mar 24, 2021

zoidar said:
But we are not released until we believe. In the kidnapper case, the captives are released when the ransom is paid. So it's not a completely perfect anology.

I believe that Jesus made a means or alternate pathway or alternate route of escape with His death, burial, and resurrection. The atonement is also PROVISIONAL and we cannot look at it the atonement as forgiving all men's sins personally unless one is a Universalist (Who believes every single person on the planet will be forgiven of sin and will make it into God's Kingdom one day). Thus in theology the atonement is referred to as the “Provisional Atonement.” Like if I gave you provisions of food so that you may survive for several months. But it is up to you to accept the provisions. Jesus paid for the sins of the entire world, and Christ provided a way out of escape, but only if we meet the terms of the contract so as to apply the Provisional Atonement to our lives (by having a proper faith). In order to apply the atonement personally to our lives we need to believe the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, seek forgiveness with the Lord Jesus (Romans 10:13), receive Him (John 1:12), and we need to answer the call of the gospel which is... God has chosen us to salvation through the sanctification of the Spirit and a belief of the truth (2 Thessalonians 2:13-14).

I believe the ransom paid in Matthew 20:28 is to set us free on a PROVISIONAL BASIS. The ransom is paid if we meet the terms of the contract of applying the ransom atonement to our lives personally by having a proper faith (i.e. a faith that is like a coin that has two sides. One side first being saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ, and the other side of the coin of faith being the “work of faith” (1 Thessalonians 1:3, 2 Thessalonians 1:11) that is in line with living a biblical holy life. For without holiness, no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14). This faith accesses the saving grace of God or the Ransom Atonement. If there is no faith, then the Provisional Ransom Atonement cannot be applied personally to a person's life.

For have you not heard of Stockholm syndrome? A person who was enslaved to sin or their sinful captors or abductors (i.e. We were once enslaved to our old man of sin) can be set free by accessing the saving grace of God or the Ransom Atonement by faith in Jesus Christ but then they can go back to their vomit of sin again and associate with their old man (i.e. their kidnapper from God). The old man of sin can only steal us away from God. Faith is the only thing that can help us to apply the Ransom Atonement to our lives personally. This faith starts off as a belief and trust in that Jesus died for our sins, He was buried, and He was risen on our behalf for salvation, but then faith continues to manifest itself with the work of faith. For faith without works is dead (James 2:17). For even the demons believe and tremble (James 2:19).

Bible Highlighter · Mar 24, 2021

zoidar said:
But we are not released until we believe. In the kidnapper case, the captives are released when the ransom is paid. So it's not a completely perfect anology.

The Ransom Atonement is tied to the Provisional Atonement. If one does not understand the Provisional Atonement, then they will be confused on the Ransom Atonement. The best way to understand the Provisional Atonement (i.e. Christ's death, burial, and resurrection) is to think of like a person writing a check to cancel out all your debt. The person made the sacrifice to pay for your debt and they hand you a check. But it is up to you if you receive the check. It is up to you if you deposit the check into your checking account. It is up to you to pay off those you are in debt to. But the price for your debt is paid in a manner of speaking. Somebody else provided a way out, but we must take it. Jesus provided a ransom payment in that He paid for our sins and therefore it will set us free from being a slave to sin, but we have to accept His terms by faith according to His Word. Believing the Word of God (the Bible) is the faith. For faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God (the Bible) (Romans 10:17). Believing Jesus and His followers by following what they taught will help us to apply the Ransom Atonement of Christ upon our lives. For a believer: over time, the enticements of this world, and mortal sin, and the old man and his ways will no longer hold us captive or enslaved. The Ransom Atonement is tied to the end goal or purpose of Titus 2:14.

“Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.” (Titus 2:14).

The Ransom Atonement is tied to end goal or purpose of Ephesians 5:25-27.

“...even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.” (Ephesians 5:25-27).

For the end goal of living a holy life and being zealous of good works (Titus 2:14, Ephesians 5:25-27) is an association of the new man in Christ Jesus and not the old sinful man who seeks to enslave (or kidnap us) back towards a life of sin. The Ransom Atonement only truly works if the captives are truly set free by not only trusting in Christ, but in not being a slave to their sin (captor) anymore. Jesus paid the price to crucify the old man so we can walk in the newness of the likeness of the resurrection (Romans 6:5). For he that is dead is freed from sin. (Romans 6:7).

Bible Highlighter · Mar 24, 2021

No man can cancel out his own debt no matter what he does himself. A life full of a person's good deeds outweighing their bad deeds will never work because those bad deeds can still condemn him. For man has sinned in the past and his past slate of sin needs to be wiped out. This is what the Atonement is for. It is to wipe out our sin but the Provisional Atonement can only be applied personally to our lives by having a proper faith (i.e. a faith in the gospel, and a faith that works and glorifies a life of holiness and not darkness).

d taylor · Mar 24, 2021

zoidar said:
Ransom? How do we understand this, that Christ gave his life as a ransom? A ransom is a price someone pays to the kidnappers, for them to let go of the captives.

The Greek word used is: Lütron

"just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many."
— Matthew 20:28

Maybe some of you got a bigger insight?

Christ love!

Jesus The Human was the blood sacrifice, that payed the sin ransom God The Father required for sin.

So Jesus payed the ransom to God The Father, that is why Jesus had to be fully human.

d taylor · Mar 24, 2021

Victor in Christ said:
Christ bore the sin of all those who would honestly repent from sin, trust/love/obey/walk with him with all their hearts and minds. Christ was and still is the sin offering/ransom for all true believers. Hell deserving sinners like us who were under the captivity of Satan, now saved by the grace and mercy of God, justified through faith in Christ's finished work on calvary, sanctified by walking with him daily, seperating ourselves from self and sin/the world/fleshly lusts/desires/traditions of men......and finally being glorified to enter heaven and see our ransom/sin-offering/sacrificial lamb/Lord of lords/King of kings face to face.

Christ bore the sin of everyone not just a select group.
And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

Victor in Christ · Mar 24, 2021

bling said:
I was very clear: “Satan is not the kidnapper” then I gave seven reasons why satan would not be the kidnapper.

Who is the kidnapper then?

The kidnapper would be sin and Satan is the owner and author of sin ???

Christ gave his life as a ransom

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