Leah's experience of 'conversion therapy'

Carl Emerson said:

THIS FROM NEW ZEALAND NEEDS TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY

Leah is an ex-lesbian, as well as someone who experienced gender dysphoria as a child. Now she is married to a patient and gracious man and together they have a young son and a daughter born just this month.

Ten years ago she voluntarily sought counsel from Christian psychologists, ministries, support networks and people who had walked before her. It was difficult, but she found relief and happiness.

Every step of her journey will become illegal under a proposed ban on ‘conversion therapy’.

Leah says that none of these avenues of support were ever harmful or coercive. In fact, the counselling she received saved her life. Ex-LGBT people like her are living proof that real and lasting change is possible, that suicides have been prevented, and that it is good for people to have the freedom to choose the type of help and support they want.

WATCH her important and personal message to kiwi families as the New Zealand politicians consider a ban on the sort of counselling and support that transformed her life for good.

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Bisexuals can “switch sides”, so to speak. That’s not the same thing as being ex-gay. “Conversion Therapy” is not effective at all in terms of what it claims to do.

cow451 said:

Bisexuals can “switch sides”, so to speak. That’s not the same thing as being ex-gay.

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You're not bi if you commit to one gender. I know marriage vows are no longer considered relevant, but some people still take lifetime commitment seriously. "Forsaking all others" would necessarily include forsaking the entire gender opposite your spouse.

Paulomycin said:

You're not bi if you commit to one gender. I know marriage vows are no longer considered relevant, but some people still take lifetime commitment seriously. "Forsaking all others" would necessarily include forsaking the entire gender opposite your spouse.

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Gay men have “committed” to one gender (female) in marriages as have lesbians to men. Now they are less likely to feel the need for traditional marriage as a cover.

So a promise doesn’t prove that she isn’t bisexual. In fact her relationship history makes the case that she is bisexual.

cow451 said:

Bisexuals can “switch sides”, so to speak. That’s not the same thing as being ex-gay. “Conversion Therapy” is not effective at all in terms of what it claims to do.

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Since she at one point was diagnosed with gender dysphoria (or likely a roughly equivalent diagnosis from that time period as the current DSM V definition and name are fairly recent),

EDIT: I am not sure she was diagnosed. Her testimony mentions some of the criteria for childhood diagnosis, but she mentions confusion, not dysphoria per se. There may be other information supporting any diagnosis as the OP indicated she experienced it.


and indicated she had dressed as a boy, experienced gender confusion which resolved before the same sex attractedness was addressed, this may still relate to the current situation. From your other posts I imagine you are quite familiar with the current situation, however, others may not be. There are a variety of approaches to gender dysphoria, and indeed the WPATH standards spell out a range of options.

However, some have gone beyond the WPATH guidelines and have performed surgery on those below the age of consent, even bottom surgery, and some clinics now administer puberty blockers in such cases as she expresses.

Some see this as a means to treat dysphoria and hope that in affirming settings this will reduce suicide risk. Others, however, note that there is still high mortality in the post-op trans community due primarily to discrimination and harassment even if the dysphoria is resolved, so they encourage people to work through their identity issues as some will desist (especially in childhood onset). And interventions that impact usual puberty will not help with the process of working through identify.

Of course some want to use the puberty blockers to delay development of secondary sex characteristic to better align with the gender identified with, rather than the natal sex. But there are questions of how they can really consent to the far ranging realities that involves at that age.

As to the relation to same-sex attraction, that is often the case. Many who desist from gender dysphoria eventually accept a homosexual orientation. In her case she kept examining and made a different choice.

Some homosexuals have seen early irreversible physical interventions as putting people on a transgender course who may have wound up identifying as homosexual had they progressed through puberty and had time to wrestle with the changes that brings.

Carl Emerson said:

as well as someone who experienced gender dysphoria as a child

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Do you have information about a diagnosis clinically, or just going by what she stated in the video?

What Is Gender Dysphoria?


The DSM-5 defines gender dysphoria in children as a marked incongruence between one’s experienced/expressed gender and assigned gender, lasting at least 6 months, as manifested by at least six of the following (one of which must be the first criterion):

• A strong desire to be of the other gender or an insistence that one is the other gender (or some alternative gender different from one’s assigned gender)
• In boys (assigned gender), a strong preference for cross-dressing or simulating female attire; or in girls (assigned gender), a strong preference for wearing only typical masculine clothing and a strong resistance to the wearing of typical feminine clothing
• A strong preference for cross-gender roles in make-believe play or fantasy play
• A strong preference for the toys, games or activities stereotypically used or engaged in by the other gender
• A strong preference for playmates of the other gender
• In boys (assigned gender), a strong rejection of typically masculine toys, games, and activities and a strong avoidance of rough-and-tumble play; or in girls (assigned gender), a strong rejection of typically feminine toys, games, and activities
• A strong dislike of one’s sexual anatomy
• A strong desire for the physical sex characteristics that match one’s experienced gender

As with the diagnostic criteria for adolescents and adults, the condition must also be associated with clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

cow451 said:

Gay men have “committed” to one gender (female) in marriages as have lesbians to men. Now they are less likely to feel the need for traditional marriage as a cover.

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Then how did anyone find out your hypothetical gay men were gay after the fact? Oh, wait. . .

cow451 said:

So a promise doesn’t prove that she isn’t bisexual. In fact her relationship history makes the case that she is bisexual.

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So you're calling her husband a beard.

Why a straight person can become gay, but not a gay become straight, see this is directly from the flesh and hell.

Carl Emerson said:

I believe it was when she was quite young and before the condition was clinically defined. Her psychologist would have indicated that she was struggling with it at the earlier age.

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Understood.

Can you link to the bill? I know I was in the discussion of the Australian version, and I saw one you had posted on the New Zealand one, but I thought that had been rejected.

In any case, if someone feels same sex attraction, but believes that is a problem and wants help to not do so, I don't see why that should be limited. Now regulating abuses such as shock therapy, etc. I can understand.

But if they simply mean all counseling must affirm that someone who is same sex attracted should be same-sex attracted, even if that person does not agree, that doesn't make sense.

And from my perspective making irreversible physical changes to those who are below the age of consent as a treatment for gender dysphoria also doesn't make sense.

Apart from that, people should be able to act on their convictions based on Scripture. If they feel the Lord does not want them to act on their same-sex attracted feelings, they should be able to speak to a spiritual leader or counselor who will work within that framework.

They also should be allowed to ask people to pray for the power to walk in the Spirit and not serve the flesh. They should be allowed to ask people to pray that they would not be conformed to the pattern of this world, but transformed by the renewing of their mind.

Paulomycin said:

You're not bi if you commit to one gender. I know marriage vows are no longer considered relevant, but some people still take lifetime commitment seriously. "Forsaking all others" would necessarily include forsaking the entire gender opposite your spouse.

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Bisexuality means equal attraction to both sexes. You can be bisexual and in a committed relationship. Most bisexuals have relational preferences.

For instance, some may be sexually attracted to one gender and elect to date the other. That's pretty common.

~bella

bèlla said:

Bisexuality means equal attraction to both sexes. You can be bisexual and in a committed relationship. Most bisexuals have relational preferences.

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Which is contradictory. If you're in a committed relationship (assuming it is truly committed, and not simply conditionally committed), then you're rejecting an entire gender for life.

gaara4158 said:

For instance, some may be sexually attracted to one gender and elect to date the other. That's pretty common.

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That's not a committed relationship either.

Paulomycin said:

Which is contradictory. If you're in a committed relationship (assuming it is truly committed, and not simply conditionally committed), then you're rejecting an entire gender for life.

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Bisexuality is based on attraction not commitment. Being in a committed relationship doesn’t negate appeal. They may choose not to act on it much like heterosexual’s do.

bèlla said:

Bisexuality is based on attraction not commitment. Being in a committed relationship doesn’t negate appeal. They may choose not to act on it much like heterosexual’s do.

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The committed relationship is an overt rejection of appeal. It's about priorities. Is your highest priority your attraction to others, or commitment to your spouse? You can't have it both ways.

Paulomycin said:

The committed relationship is an overt rejection of appeal. It's about priorities. Is your highest priority your attraction to others, or commitment to your spouse? You can't have it both ways.

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Married people don’t act on attractions but that doesn’t prevent them from acknowledging someone is attractive. Same thing.

bèlla said:

Married people don’t act on attractions but that doesn’t prevent them from acknowledging someone is attractive. Same thing.

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So spouse is reduced to a beard. Got it.

Another issue not shared very often with those outside of the community is the truth that folks’ sexual and romantic interests, capacity to feel attracted to one gender over another, and self-identification can and do slide either way (and sometimes back again) over the course of their adult lifetimes.

Hence identifiers like bi-dyke, genderqueer, butch, ftm, gender-fluid, bisexual, trans man, and others.

Also, it does happen that people who just don’t feel much of a capacity to find the opposite sex attractive or desirable *in general* can still love and settle down with a person of the opposite sex. It happens.

This is what saddens me about the current transgender fad. It’s a feeling. About your body, identity, self, and what you should be / how you should look. Feelings change. They do. Sometimes for reasons that are simply emotional, psychological, or even hormonal. Not even moral or spiritual.

anna ~ grace said:

Another issue not shared very often with those outside of the community is the truth that folks’ sexual and romantic interests, capacity to feel attracted to one gender over another, and self-identification can and do slide either way (and sometimes back again) over the course of their adult lifetimes.

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True. I’m heterosexual but I don’t have the same level of attraction to Christian men that I had with others. The energy is different and it takes a lot of effort. But that isn’t the case with Christian women. I enjoy their company more (than men and others I knew in the past). The energy is great and we click.

Also, it does happen that people who just don’t feel much of a capacity to find the opposite sex attractive or desirable *in general* can still love and settle down with a person of the opposite sex. It happens.

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I don’t know if I would do that. I’d probably date instead. But it works for some.