What limits would this put on God

JAL said:

Stop telling lies. Claiming that I ignored it is intellectual dishonesty. What I did was respond that an immutably holy Christ cannot be tempted in the wilderness. Here's a couple of analogies to prove my point.

(1) Suppose we define the Son as impassible. Can He be led out to the wilderness to suffer? No.
(2) Suppose we define the Son as omnipotent and indefatigable. Can He be led out to the wilderness to experience fatigue? No.

Hence my conclusion:
(3) An immutably holy Son cannot be led out to the wilderness to be tempted. Only a mutable Son could undergo real temptation.

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This is what I think you ignored. Maybe, I am wrong and we both agree?

"
What Does the Bible Mean by Temptation?
Copyright 1990 by Bob and Gretchen Passantino.

1. God cannot be tempted (James 1:13).
2. God can be tempted (or there would be no reason for us to be warned against tempting God — Deuteronomy 6:16).
3. If God cannot be tempted (see 1 above), and Jesus is God, then does that mean he cannot be tempted? (James 1:13)
4. But Jesus was tempted (Hebrews 4:15).
5. God tempts no one (James 1:13).
6. God tempted someone (David, to number Israel — 2 Samuel 24:1).

How are these biblical statements reconciled, both within scripture and consistent with God’s character?

The answers to these statements can be categorized in two major ways: vocabulary (what words were used in the original, and what meanings those words have), and context (how the words were used in each passage).

Vocabulary
Temptation has many synonyms (equivalent words) in English. It can mean (among other things) test, proof, experiment, trial, and enticement. The main Greek (New Testament language) words for temptation are formed from peiraz and dokimaz , both words of which also occur in the Greek translation of the Old Testament called the Septuagint. The main Hebrew words are n sƒh, s rap, and b han, and one word which relates primarily to the genuineness of coins, sig. Comparing the Septuagint equivalents to the original Hebrew helps us understand the overall biblical use of the terms.

[Those who wish more information on the Greek or Hebrew should see The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology (Vol. 3), Colin Brown, ed., Zondervan, 1978, pp. 798-810; or The Expository Dictionary of Bible Words, Lawrence O. Richards, Zondervan, 1985, pp. 593-594.]

Both peiraz and dokimaz can mean test or proof. In addition, peiraz includes the ideas of temptation or enticement (to sin) and of a trial. Dokimaz also carries the connotation of approval or genuineness.

From this vocabulary study, we see that “temptation” can mean test, proof, or to establish genuineness; not only “enticement to sin.”

Context
Armed with our vocabulary study, we can look at the context of each of our six statements.

God Cannot Be Tempted
James 1:13 says, “Let no one say when he is tempted, ‘I am being tempted by God’; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.” Looking at the context, we see that the statement is not merely “God cannot be tempted,” but “God cannot be tempted by evil.” In other words, God cannot be enticed to sin (Greek apeir st s). James 1:13 affirms that God cannot sin, but is completely holy and good.

God Can Be Tempted
When Deuteronomy 6:16 warns us against “tempting God,” the context refers on the one hand to testing the Israelites’ faithfulness and, on the other hand, to testing God’s righteous judgment. Paraphrased, the passage means, “Don’t test God’s righteous judgment by worship-ping idols unless you are willing to be wiped off the face of the earth” (v. 15).

The reconciliation of the two statements? God cannot be enticed to sin; he is holy and good. God’s consistent, holy, good reaction to idolatry is righteous judgment. One should not “test” God’s character by sinning, since God will “pass the test” of righteousness and punish the sinner (see also Jeremiah 18:7-10).

Can Jesus Be God and Be Tempted?
Jesus is God and so he cannot be tempted in the sense that he cannot be enticed to sin, but he can be tempted in the sense that he can be tested, even with the evil lures of Satan (Matthew 4), and found to be true to his character. This is the context of Hebrews 4:15, which says, “For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who has been tempted (peiraz ) in all things as we are, yet without sin.”/

Jesus was tested by Satan’s enticements concerning his obedience to the Father and his commitment to his messianic mission, yet he did not succumb to the temptation. (A related issue concerns the dynamics between Christ’s human and divine natures, under the subjection of his one divine person. See The Impeccable Christ by W. E. Best, Zondervan, 1971).

Does God Tempt People?
Look again at James 1:13. Just as God cannot be enticed into sinning, so God does not entice anyone else into sinning. That is what is meant by “and He Himself does not tempt anyone.” James warns us not to blame our own fall into sin on God. God does not persuade us to sin, we willingly fall to the lure of our own sinful nature (Romans 3:23), the sinfulness in the world (Titus 2:12), and/or the false promises of Satan (Genesis 3:1-5).

When 2 Samuel 24:1 says God provoked or tempted David to number Israel, it means God made use of David’s action to manifest David’s disobedience to God. The parallel passage in 1 Chronicles 27:23-24 credits Satan with provoking David to take the census. Putting the two passages together shows that, while Satan may have enticed David into sin, it was God who tested David and used that occasion to show both David and the Israelites the consequences of David’s sin.

God tests us to reveal to ourselves and the world our true characters.
God has always tested each order of rational beings that He has created. This test has consisted of proof of perfect trust and obedience. A test in itself is not a cause of sin. Only the action of the one tested can turn it into an occasion to sin. . . . Adam and Eve faced a test of obedience, and disobeyed and fell. Christ, in order to redeem men, faced testing, and came out victorious (Hebrews 5:7-9) (Wycliffe Bible Encyclopedia, Vol. 2, Charles Pfeiffer, Howard Vos, and John Rea, eds., Moody, 1975, p. 1680).

Summary
There are various meanings for the word temptation. Usually it means either an enticement to sin or a test or trial. God never entices anyone to sin, but uses testing to reveal his justice and challenge believers to faithfulness (2 Corinthians 13:5-8).
"
What Does the Bible Mean by Temptation? - Answers.org

JAL said:

If an immutable God can, at any time, choose to mutate Himself, He was never immutable to begin with. That's the obvious point that you continue to conveniently ignore.

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Isaiah 43:25
“I, I am the one who wipes away all your sins. I do this to please myself. I will not remember your sins.

Jeremiah 31:34
People will not have to teach their neighbors and relatives to know the Lord, because all people, from the least important to the most important, will know me.” This message is from the Lord. “I will forgive them for the evil things they did. I will not remember their sins.”

Hebrews 8:12
And I will forgive the wrongs they have done, and I will not remember their sins.”

God can choose not to practice an attribute. When God became Man ( Phil 2 ) He chose not to exercise his divine attributes. But,, by entering a human body of Jesus choose to practice his human side. Jesus is fully God and fully Man.

Why are you ignoring the study on temptation I posted?

JAL said:

(Sigh) Precisely my point. An immutable system is far too rigid/ inflexible to reconcile those statements. I have already shown you some hints as to how a mutable system resolves them.

I'll clarify here. In my system, the Third Person functions as a mechanism whereby God is irreversibly holy. I like to refer to this immunity to sin as the divine Immune System. The purpose of the Immune System is to sustain the Godhead, in all of its acquired holiness. The Immune System is not, however, stupid. For purposes of the Incarnation, it allowed the incarnate Son to undergo real temptation because the incarnate Christ was only a small piece of the Godhead (in other words the Godhead as a whole would not have collapsed if Christ had sinned in the wilderness and therefore the Immune System permitted the wilderness-temptation).

The Immune System is defined here:
The Problem of Evil | Page 6 | Christian Forums

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Can Jesus human side be tempted? No like us because he did not have a sin nature.
Jesus would have been like Adam before the fall. I wonder if we are saying the same things without fully understanding each other.

I am enjoying our discussion friend. Anyway, one looks at it we all are operating from human traditions. I learned my traditions from scripture first before even opening a theology book of any kind besides the Bible.

JAL said:

What relevant point am I missing? I didn't address all the nuances on temptation because they seemed off-topic. What I did do is address the one aspect of temptation that did seem relevant, namely the issue of reconciling these two propositions:
(1) God cannot be tempted.
(2) Jesus suffered real temptation on earth.

I provided the only seamlesss solution in church history! That's not good enough for you? You still don't have a solution !!!!

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Matthew 4:7
Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Luke 4:12
And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

JAL said:

Huh? You don't need a sin nature to be tempted. Again, I provided a solution, namely:
(1) God cannot be tempted in virtue of the Immune System.
(2) Jesus was temptible on earth because the Immune System allowed it.

But now He's back under the protection of the Immune System. He can't suffer temptation anymore.

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I had this text in mind when I wrote the above:

James 1:14
But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

Temptation to sin comes from his own desires. For you and me, that is likely from our sin nature.

Gal 5
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

That which Jesus experienced was external to himself, thus a testing.

JAL said:

So for 2,000 years, the church has embraced human traditions - man-made theories of ecclesiology, clergy, church-government, evangelism, and missions - instead of seeking God's will via Direct Revelation, and thus we've been in apostasy/ rebellion for 2,000 years. This was precisely why Paul was infuriated with the Galatian church. They had sought to deduce God's will from Scripture and, in so doing, had only managed to perpetuate the Jewish tendency of formulating man-made traditions based on Scripture. Paul summoned the Galatians back to Direct Revelation (the divine Voice) which he referred to as "the hearing of faith" (verses 3:2, and 3:5) and then he gave the prophet Abraham as proof-of-concept (he referred back to Abraham's experience at Gen 15:1-6 where Abraham heard God's voice as a Direct Revelation). In fact Galatians 1 and 2 biographically recount how Direct Revelation had freed Paul from Jewish traditions and sufficiently educated him to preach the gospel even without training from the other apostles.

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Problem with your view is you are describing a great apostasy, and that has not happened yet.

2 Thessalonians 2
Easy-to-Read Version
Evil Things Will Happen
2 Brothers and sisters, we have something to say about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. We want to talk to you about that time when we will meet together with him. 2 Don’t let yourselves be easily upset or worried if you hear that the day of the Lord has already come. Someone might say that this idea came from us—in something the Spirit told us, or in something we said, or in a letter we wrote. 3 Don’t be fooled by anything they might say. That day of the Lord will not come until the turning away from God happens. And that day will not come until the Man of Evil appears, the one who belongs to hell.[a] 4 He will stand against and put himself above everything that people worship or think is worthy of worship. He will even go into God’s Temple and sit there, claiming that he is God.

5 I told you before that all these things would happen. Remember? 6 And you know what is stopping that Man of Evil now. He is being stopped now so that he will appear at the right time. 7 The secret power of evil is already working in the world now. But there is one who is stopping that secret power of evil. And he will continue to stop it until he is taken out of the way. 8 Then that Man of Evil will appear. But the Lord Jesus will kill him with the breath that comes from his mouth. The Lord will come in a way that everyone will see, and that will be the end of the Man of Evil.

9 When that Man of Evil comes, it will be the work of Satan. He will come with great power, and he will do all kinds of false miracles, signs, and wonders. 10 The Man of Evil will use every kind of evil to fool those who are lost. They are lost because they refused to love the truth and be saved. 11 So God will send them something powerful that leads them away from the truth and causes them to believe a lie. 12 They will all be condemned because they did not believe the truth and because they enjoyed doing evil.

" Scripture mentions an apostasy in Matthew 24:4-12; Mark 13:21-23; Luke 21:7-8; Acts 20:29-30; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12; 2 Timothy 3:1-7, 4:1-4; 2 Peter 2:1-3; and Jude 17-19. Most of these verses say "many" will fall away, and not one mentions a complete apostasy of the Church. "
In Search of 'The Great Apostasy' | EWTN

"On this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" (Matt 16:18)

JAL said:

Galatians has not happened yet? Paul described the Galatian condition as apostasy - he said it was a deserting of the one who called you (verse 1:6).

Galatians HAS happened. That epistle proves that the local churches CAN make the sort of error that I've been describing. You seem to be confusing two different types of apostasy.

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Galatians is one city where someone was teaching false teachings and Paul addressed that in his letter. Not everyone even there went apostate. It does not equal a total apostasy the complete church. Neither does the seven churches in the Book of Revelation equate to a total apostasy the complete church.

Mormons like to play the same game of pretending that false teaching here and there equals a total apostasy.

The text I posted shows that destruction of the Anti-Christ, Beast is shortly after the Great Total Apostasy of the complete, total, full church.

Even Catholicism of today holds to the essenitials of the gospel spelled out in I Cor 15.

1 Corinthians 15
Easy-to-Read Version
The Good News About Jesus Christ
15 Now, brothers and sisters, I want you to remember the Good News I told you. You received that Good News message, and you continue to base your life on it. 2 That Good News, the message you heard from me, is God’s way to save you. But you must continue believing it. If you don’t, you believed for nothing.

3 I gave you the message that I received. I told you the most important truths: that Christ died for our sins, as the Scriptures say; 4 that he was buried and was raised to life on the third day, as the Scriptures say; 5 and that he appeared to Peter and then to the twelve apostles. 6 After that Christ appeared to more than 500 other believers at the same time. Most of them are still living today, but some have died.

Concerning the Faith Works thing, We need to remember Eph 2:10

Ephesians 2:10
Easy-to-Read Version
10 God has made us what we are. In Christ Jesus, God made us new people so that we would spend our lives doing the good things he had already planned for us to do.

Salvation is by grace Eph 2:8-9 but true faith results in good works.

Gal 5
22 But the fruit that the Spirit produces in a person’s life is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against these kinds of things. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified their sinful self. They have given up their old selfish feelings and the evil things they wanted to do. 25 We get our new life from the Spirit, so we should follow the Spirit.

2 Peter 1
Easy-to-Read Version

1 Greetings from Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ.

To all of you who share in the same valuable faith that we have. This faith was given to us because our God and Savior Jesus Christ always does what is good and right.

2 Grace and peace be given to you more and more, because now you know God and Jesus our Lord.

God Has Given Us Everything We Need
3 Jesus has the power of God. And his power has given us everything we need to live a life devoted to God. We have these things because we know him. Jesus chose us by his glory and goodness, 4 through which he also gave us the very great and rich gifts that he promised us. With these gifts you can share in being like God. And so you will escape the ruin that comes to people in the world because of the evil things they want.

5 Because you have these blessings, do all you can to add to your life these things: to your faith add goodness; to your goodness add knowledge; 6 to your knowledge add self-control; to your self-control add patience; to your patience add devotion to God; 7 to your devotion add kindness toward your brothers and sisters in Christ, and to this kindness add love. 8 If all these things are in you and growing, you will never fail to be useful to God. You will produce the kind of fruit that should come from your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But those who don’t grow in these blessings are blind. They cannot see clearly what they have. They have forgotten that they were cleansed from their past sins.

10 My brothers and sisters, God called you and chose you to be his. Do your best to live in a way that shows you really are God’s called and chosen people. If you do all this, you will never fall. 11 And you will be given a very great welcome into the kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, a kingdom that never ends.

12 You already know these things. You are very strong in the truth you have. But I am always going to help you remember them. 13 While I am still living here on earth, I think it is right for me to remind you of them. 14 I know that I must soon leave this body. Our Lord Jesus Christ has shown me that. 15 I will try my best to make sure you remember these things even after I am gone.

We Saw Christ’s Glory
16 We told you about the power of our Lord Jesus Christ. We told you about his coming. The things we told you were not just clever stories that people invented. No, we saw the greatness of Jesus with our own eyes. 17 Jesus heard the voice of the great and glorious God. That was when he received honor and glory from God the Father. The voice said, “This is my Son, the one I love. I am very pleased with him.” 18 And we heard that voice. It came from heaven while we were with Jesus on the holy mountain.

19 This makes us more sure about what the prophets said. And it is good for you to follow closely what they said, which is like a light shining in a dark place. You have that light until the day begins and the morning star brings new light to your minds. 20 Most important of all, you must understand this: No prophecy in the Scriptures comes from the prophet’s own understanding. 21 No prophecy ever came from what some person wanted to say. But people were led by the Holy Spirit and spoke words from God.

James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also

Romans 8
King James Version

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Combined, we are not saved by our works, but good works follows from having the Holy Spirit in our lives.