At exactly what time is Mark of the Beast given as choice to people?

Douggg

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Daniel and Revelation both mention the 42 months. Daniel was looking forward, but John was looking back—Daniel 7: lion, bear, leopard <-> Revelation 13: leopard, bear, lion.
Freth, you didn't identify who the ten kings are who rule with the beast for the 1260 days (42 months in SDA intepretation).

Actually the 42 months term does not appear in Daniel. The time, times, half time is in Daniel, but not the term 42 months.

Here is a video I made of the timeframes in Revelation.

 
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chad kincham

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Hey , I would like to know at exactly which point in the 7 year of tribulation is Mark of Beast given to people?

Is it at the beginning when Antichrist comes to power and confirms peace treaty with many?
Is it in the middle when he desolated temple?

Pleace include Scriptures to prove your point thanks

edit) Forgot to add , if this can't be known or it's not in the Bible itself is also a good answer I just want to know if its even there or I keep looking for something which cannot be found..

It’s given at the start of the great tribulation, which is at the mid trib point -
Hey , I would like to know at exactly which point in the 7 year of tribulation is Mark of Beast given to people?

Is it at the beginning when Antichrist comes to power and confirms peace treaty with many?
Is it in the middle when he desolated temple?

Pleace include Scriptures to prove your point thanks

edit) Forgot to add , if this can't be known or it's not in the Bible itself is also a good answer I just want to know if its even there or I keep looking for something which cannot be found..

It’s given at mid trib point, which is absolutely a fact, since it says the beast is given power to give the ma
Hey , I would like to know at exactly which point in the 7 year of tribulation is Mark of Beast given to people?

Is it at the beginning when Antichrist comes to power and confirms peace treaty with many?
Is it in the middle when he desolated temple?

Pleace include Scriptures to prove your point thanks

edit) Forgot to add , if this can't be known or it's not in the Bible itself is also a good answer I just want to know if its even there or I keep looking for something which cannot be found..

It’s at mid trib, because scripture says the beast is given power to give the mark and make war on the saints for 42 months which is 3.5 years.

And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Rev 13:9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

Rev 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

The Second Beast

Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
 
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Freth

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I looked at that pictorial.

The beast has a mouth of a lion. And in verse Revelation 13:5 a mouth speaking great things and blaspheme.

The pictorial shows in addition to the lion... several other different heads, i.e. bears, leopards, dragon - but I am not reading that there are heads of those beasts on the beast coming out of the sea. I don't think that pictorial is accurate.

The is one head that is mortally wounded but healed, and a mouth speaking blasphemies, and the mouth of a lion. And the ten horns rule with the beast. It only makes sense if the horns are on that one head.

The pictorial is indeed accurate. The attributes of the beast of the sea show its lineage. Read Daniel 7 and you will find that there are four beasts. A lion, a bear, a leopard and a dreadful/terrible beast (the ugly one).

Each of the beasts in Daniel 7 have specific characteristics that match history, so that we can know what kingdoms they're referring to; but we don't have to guess, the angel spells it out clearly to Daniel (Daniel 7:23) and the symbols used are all are defined by scripture.

Let's look closely.

The beast has four leopard heads. These are representative of the third kingdom shown in Daniel's vision (Daniel 7:6). The four heads represent the four generals of Alexander the Great (Greece).

The artist lifted the body up on one foot, showing one side higher than the other. This is indicating the bear being raised up on one side (Daniel 7:5), which is showing the imbalance of power of the kingdom of Medo-Persia.

If you read Daniel 7, the artist's rendering makes sense. You can't interpret Revelation 13 without Daniel, because the symbols match and have meaning (i.e. Daniel is the key to understanding Revelation). They show the lineage of the beast of the sea, going back to Babylon. It's why (spiritual) Babylon is referenced in Revelation.

I would need another thread to explain it all in detail, but the symbols have meaning.
 
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Hammster

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In Acts 1, Jesus left this world ascending up into a cloud, out of sight. The two angels informed the disciples that Jesus will come in like manner. Implying His second coming back down to earth.

In Daniel 7:13 on the heaven side of that same event, Jesus arrives in the third heaven on the clouds of heaven.
Okay. But that doesn’t mean that “coming on the clouds” is His second coming.
 
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chad kincham

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Coming on a cloud isn’t the second coming.

Yes, it is.

Jesus left earth and ascended to heaven on cloud and the angel in Acts said he’d return to earth the same way.

In revelation 1:7 He comes on a cloud and every eye sees Him.
 
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Hammster

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Yes, it is.

Jesus left earth and ascended to heaven on cloud and the angel in Acts said he’d return to earth the same way.

In revelation 1:7 He comes on a cloud and every eye sees Him.
Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.
— Revelation 1:7

I think it’s safe to assume that those who pierced Him have long departed this earth.

But let’s not skip to v. 7 without seeing what John said before that:


The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John,
— Revelation 1:1

“soon” being the key word.
 
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Timtofly

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The way we can know that the 42 months doesn't apply to the very end is because there is "time no longer":

Revelation 10:5-7 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets [the understanding of Daniel and Revelation time prophecies].
The time prophecies were ended with the completion of the 2300 year prophecy (457 BC to 1844 AD). The end time events are not to be time-matched. Jesus is coming as a thief in the night. We are to watch and be sober.
The 42 months does not exist at all, yet.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Many do not get the "he" in this verse. The Lord of the vineyard is the He. The 7th Trumpet is the completion of God's plan. The Covenant is God's Covenant and plan. The ceasing and desolations is the result of what the confirmation of the Covenant confirms. The 7th Trumpet is not for 7 years. It is for one week.

If there is an interruption and the week is cut in half, then we get 42 months, and only then will Satan have any authority to show the world his FP, and only then will the abomination of desolation the AC be presented. If the week is not cut in half, there will be no 42 months, no mark of the beast, no Armageddon. The week ends with the winepress of the wrath of God, on any human left on earth at the start of the 7th Trumpet.

Remember Job? Remember how Satan had to ask for every judgment on Job? God is the "he" that lets Satan have 42 months that exist beyond time. Existing beyond time is the reason humans are removed from the Lamb's book of life, and marked appropriately as being eternally damned in Death, even though walking around on earth for another 42 months. These walking dead will align for one hour at the battle of Armageddon after the 7 vials are poured out, after those 42 months end.

During this time one will have to be beheaded to avoid being marked and removed from the Lamb's book of life. This period is beyond the time of God's grace and salvation. The church is not around, because the Second Coming was before the 1st Trumpet. Jesus Christ the Lamb came to earth in the 6th Seal and brought the angels and Trumpets with Him. Time was over at the 7th Trumpet, yet Daniel and John gave us the worse case scenario. It was so we could avoid it altogether. Now the church seems to be embracing it, falling into the deception of Satan that we need to prepare for something that does not even exist.

Satan did the same thing to Eve, making her think she was missing out on knowledge she did not have. We are not missing out on this non existing 42 months. Satan is missing out if the church obeys God's plan and Covenant.
 
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Freth

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The 42 months does not exist at all, yet.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Many do not get the "he" in this verse. The Lord of the vineyard is the He. The 7th Trumpet is the completion of God's plan. The Covenant is God's Covenant and plan. The ceasing and desolations is the result of what the confirmation of the Covenant confirms. The 7th Trumpet is not for 7 years. It is for one week.

If there is an interruption and the week is cut in half, then we get 42 months, and only then will Satan have any authority to show the world his FP, and only then will the abomination of desolation the AC be presented. If the week is not cut in half, there will be no 42 months, no mark of the beast, no Armageddon. The week ends with the winepress of the wrath of God, on any human left on earth at the start of the 7th Trumpet.

Remember Job? Remember how Satan had to ask for every judgment on Job? God is the "he" that lets Satan have 42 months that exist beyond time. Existing beyond time is the reason humans are removed from the Lamb's book of life, and marked appropriately as being eternally damned in Death, even though walking around on earth for another 42 months. These walking dead will align for one hour at the battle of Armageddon after the 7 vials are poured out, after those 42 months end.

During this time one will have to be beheaded to avoid being marked and removed from the Lamb's book of life. This period is beyond the time of God's grace and salvation. The church is not around, because the Second Coming was before the 1st Trumpet. Jesus Christ the Lamb came to earth in the 6th Seal and brought the angels and Trumpets with Him. Time was over at the 7th Trumpet, yet Daniel and John gave us the worse case scenario. It was so we could avoid it altogether. Now the church seems to be embracing it, falling into the deception of Satan that we need to prepare for something that does not even exist.

Satan did the same thing to Eve, making her think she was missing out on knowledge she did not have. We are not missing out on this non existing 42 months. Satan is missing out if the church obeys God's plan and Covenant.

Then we will have to agree to disagree.
 
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Timtofly

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Do you believe Jesus failed in His mission to fulfill the New Covenant during the first century?

Do you believe the Messiah's death in Daniel 9:26 has nothing to do with the New Covenant, no matter what we find in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 9:15, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and Hebrews 12:18-24?

Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, the Two Peoples of God doctrine of modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.
The ministry of Jesus on earth both in the 6th Seal and in the first century are all part of God's plan. Jesus Christ is God on earth. In the 6th Seal the Lord on the throne will be present on earth. I am not denying what God has already accomplished.

I am pointing out the error of the church thinking that Jesus is not returning and being here for the completion in His own time keeping; and not what man interprets in his own understanding.

The desolation of the first century Temple is not the same as the desolation of the nations at the Second Coming. Daniel 9 gives the reasons that the 70th week is not defined and open ended. Daniel does not give the complete and full 70th week. Jesus Christ is the 70th week, and was cut off. The Second Coming will be the completion of Jesus Christ.
 
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BABerean2

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The ministry of Jesus on earth both in the 6th Seal and in the first century are all pat of God's plan. Jesus Christ is God on earth. In the 6th Seal the Lord on the throne will be present on earth. I am not denying what God has already accomplished.

I am pointing out the error of the church thinking that Jesus is not returning and being here for the completion in His own time keeping; and not what man interprets in his own understanding.

The desolation of the first century Temple is not the same as the desolation of the nations at the Second Coming. Daniel 9 gives the reasons that the 70th week is not defined and open ended. Daniel does not give the complete and full 70th week. Jesus Christ is the 70th week, and was cut off. The Second Coming will be the completion of Jesus Christ.


Daniel chapter 9: Dr. Kelly Varner reveals the fulfillment of the New Covenant in the chapter.

.
 
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TribulationSigns

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Hey , I would like to know at exactly which point in the 7 year of tribulation is Mark of Beast given to people?

First, in Daniel 9:27, the Prince has already confirmed the Covenant. It was the Prince of peace who established the New Covenant church, took away the sin of his people and ended their warfare. How many times does God's word have to testify to this before you accept it a truth.

Hebrews 8:9-12
  • "Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
  • For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
  • And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
  • For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
  • In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."
Some people keep presenting Scriptures that are fulfilled, while ignoring God's Word that He has done all this. Moreover, pre-tribulationists present this scripture purporting a seven year tribulation period, but the Scripture itself does not at all "say" that the tribulation period will be seven years, nor that this one week in which the Covenant is confirmed (literally, made strong), is the great tribulation period. So it's all your private interpretation of the verse, not something the verse actually says. Indeed, the verse itself destroys your interpretation because it says that in the midst of this week this abomination of desolation starts. Not at the beginning of it. So if this were seven years, then the tribulation would be 3 1/2 years, not seven. Christ identifies the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel as the time of this great tribulation.

Matthew 24:21
  • "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."
So therefore your theory has to be incorrect. This manipulation of the Scriptures by favorite authors is typical of both Dispensationalism and Premillennialism in general. Both systems of interpretation "read things" into the scriptures that are not actually there, and then make claims that their's is a literalist system.

Can you give us even one single Scripture that says that the great tribulation period lasts for 7 years? That's not from the inerrant authority of the word, that's your personal interpretation of the word. Or can you give us even one Scripture that says the believers will be taken out of the world before the Great Tribulation? Again, not a private interpretation, which some Theologians claim "may mean that," but any actual scripture that says that the church cannot go through the Great Tribulation and must, or will, be raptured before it starts?

Matthew 24:15
  • "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )"
How can they both be in the world and see the great tribulation, and have already been taken out of the world before it? On the contrary, God informs us that not only will the saints be here, but they should be aware that when they "see" the abomination of desolation,they are to flee to the mountains. So from the inerrant authority of Scriptures, it is absurd to think that the saints will have been raptured because God didn't want them to go through the wrath of this tribulation.

Therefore we understand that this is either your interpretation or the thoughts of your teachers. But it is not the actual word of God. Do you know of any Scripture that says people are going to be physically martyred by the millions in the great tribulation? ..I've searched the Scriptures for years and I can't come up with such a declaration. So this begs the question, where did you get that number? God's word is what we must look to for doctrine, correction and our instruction in what is the great tribulation. It is not Dr. Dave Breese's book.

2nd Timothy 3:16-17
  • ""All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for
    doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
  • That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good
    works
    ."

If we are to be perfect before God, we must look to His Holy word alone, and it will thoroughly equip us to know what is the truth so that we will follow the His doctrines, and eschew the words and deceptions of men. We have to keep the word perfectly clear before us, that we know the difference between our own interpretations, and God's word itself. When we faithfully bear witness to God's word so that we can quote it word for word, then we know we have truth. When we do not, we have only the words, ideas and imaginations of man's heart.

Is it at the beginning when Antichrist comes to power and confirms peace treaty with many?
Is it in the middle when he desolated temple?

Where does it says in Scripture that Antichrist comes to power and sign/confirms a peace treaty on a piece of paper? You asked if it is in the middle when he desolated temple only proved my point above. You do not know what you are talking about!

If you want to know when the Mark of the Beast will be implenented. Please read the verse:

Rev 13:11-18
(11) And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
(12) And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
(13) And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
(14) And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
(15) And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
(16) And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
(17) And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
(18) Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

You need to do some more homework and ask yourself:

1.) What is God's defination of the beast?
2.) What does the earth represents in versre 11?
3.) What does the horns in Scripture signifies?
4.) What does the lamb in Scirpture signifies?
5.) Who is this dragon?
6.) How will the beast deceive by the means of those miracles. What miracles is this?
7.) What power does the beast have that give life into the image of the beast and make it to speak?
8.) What is the image of the beast?
9.) How will the beast cause EVERYONE to receive a mark in their right hand or foreheads?
10.) What does the right hand in Scripture signifies?
11.) What does the forehead in Scirpture signifies?
12.) Is the mark literal or spiritual?
13.) What can the man sell or buy with the mark?

And finally...
14.) WHEN will the mark of the beast starts?

Take your time. (Hint: This has NOTHING to do with so-called one supernatural man or religion leader (antichrist's so-called sidekick), a physical mark, or something you need to buy food at 7-11, or a man-made statue that miraculously speaks before news media or smartphones).
 
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chad kincham

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Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.
— Revelation 1:7

I think it’s safe to assume that those who pierced Him have long departed this earth.

But let’s not skip to v. 7 without seeing what John said before that:


The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John,
— Revelation 1:1

“soon” being the key word.

I get that you’re a preterist, which is completely bogus.

When Jesus returns back to mount olive, from where he left on a cloud, He lands on the mount and splits it in two, with a huge chasm in between. Zechariah ch. 14.

This and 79 other prophetic occurrences have yet to happen.

Those who pierced Him, means the Jews as a nation who rejected their messiah.

Another thing is when Jesus returns as the deliverer who saves Jerusalem from total destruction in Zechariah 14, all the Jews alive at that time realize He is Messiah, and believe in Him, and get saved - per Romans ch. 11.

Which also hasn’t happened.
 
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Hammster

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I get that you’re a preterist, which is completely bogus.

When Jesus returns back to mount olive, from where he left on a cloud, He lands on the mount and splits it in two, with a huge chasm in between. Zechariah ch. 14.

This and 79 other prophetic occurrences have yet to happen.

Those who pierced Him, means the Jews as a nation who rejected their messiah.

Another thing is when Jesus returns as the deliverer who saves Jerusalem from total destruction in Zechariah 14, all the Jews alive at that time realize He is Messiah, and believe in Him, and get saved - per Romans ch. 11.

Which also hasn’t happened.
Those who pierced Him means those who pierced Him.

“Must soon take place” means that it will take place soon.
 
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Douggg

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The beast has four leopard heads. These are representative of the third kingdom shown in Daniel's vision (Daniel 7:6). The four heads represent the four generals of Alexander the Great (Greece).
There are four individual beasts in Daniel 7, I agree.

But in Revelation 13, it just says the mouth of a lion. I think we have to presume having the mouth of a lion, is that mouth is located in a head of a lion.

It does not mention the other six heads as being anything else.

Since it indicates the body of a leopard, and feet of a bear - would it not make sense if the heads were a bear and four leopards would have been mentioned ? And a dragon head?
In addition to the lion head (presumed).
 
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chad kincham

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Those who pierced Him means those who pierced Him.

“Must soon take place” means that it will take place soon.

Wrong. A thousand years is as a day to God, said Peter, to those complaining His coming was taking too long.

It’s been two days on eternal being timescale, since Jesus rose from the dead.
 
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Douggg

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Okay. But that doesn’t mean that “coming on the clouds” is His second coming.
part of .... not Jesus Himself....if that is what you mean?

What does coming in like manner in Acts 1 mean to you?
 
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Douggg

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Those who pierced Him means those who pierced Him.

“Must soon take place” means that it will take place soon.
One of the things we have been given of when those things in Matthew 24:15-30 take place is the parable of the fig tree generation.

Fig tree - Jerusalem - back in the hands of the Jews in 1967. A generation 70 years, Psalms 90:10. So we are close.
 
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Hammster

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Wrong. A thousand years is as a day to God, said Peter, to those complaining His coming was taking too long.

It’s been two days on eternal being timescale, since Jesus rose from the dead.
Uh...okay. I have no idea what that has to do with my post, though.
 
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Hammster

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One of the things we have been given of when those things in Matthew 24:15-30 take place is the parable of the fig tree generation.

Fig tree - Jerusalem - back in the hands of the Jews in 1967. A generation 70 years, Psalms 90:10. So we are close.
Ah, the parable of the fig tree. And what does he say about that?


Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.
— Matthew 24:34
 
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Hammster

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part of .... not Jesus Himself....if that is what you mean?

What does coming in like manner in Acts 1 mean to you?
He’ll come down like He went up. What does coming on the clouds mean in the OT?
 
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