So what is the state of things at your parish now?

gurneyhalleck1 said:

I’m my part of California, COVID took root deeply because of our extensive good ole boy “I think this here mask stuff is a conspeeersy by the commies to control us all, Earl!” element. People refused masks, gathered defiantly, and within no time CenCal was COVID hotbed USA. My wife watched a lot of people die or suffer terribly from this pandemic. While I believe 100000% the Eucharist is and must be germ-free and that gathering in church should ALWAYS happen in all circumstances, I do believe everyone should mask up.

Click to expand...

That's why I said what I said about "believers" and "non-believers". We both believe in the virus. WE even believe that masks can do some good in some cases. We don't agree on the "everyone should mask up" thing. And nothing either can say could sway the other, because the basis for the choice of belief is dogmatic, and both sides think they have considered what the other side has to say. All I can say to that last is that your depiction of the objections of non-believers as rubes is one that is not fair to the more intelligent nuanced thinking of objection. Like I said, both sides are dogmatic. But we SHOULD try to be fair to the other side, and look for the BEST thinking that challenges us the most on their side.

prodromos said:

We aŕe pretty much back to normal in Sydney, Australia. No restrictions on numbers and no masks. Masks are only mandatory on public transport at present.

Click to expand...

I'm surprised to hear this, because I thought the capacity restrictions I'm working with (1 person per 2 metres squared of floor space) were NSW-wide. Masks are not mandatory here unless the congregation are singing indoors, so we are singing outdoors only. (As per here: Places of worship | COVID Safe | NSW Government)

Of course if there is more than enough floor space for your congregation, numbers are not such an issue. In my main parish church I have more space than I need; in my little country church up the road we're doing a baptism outside tomorrow because we expect 80 or so people and I'm only allowed 24 in that building!

Paidiske said:

I'm surprised to hear this, because I thought the capacity restrictions I'm working with (1 person per 2 metres squared of floor space) were NSW-wide. Masks are not mandatory here unless the congregation are singing indoors, so we are singing outdoors only. (As per here: Places of worship | COVID Safe | NSW Government)

Of course if there is more than enough floor space for your congregation, numbers are not such an issue. In my main parish church I have more space than I need; in my little country church up the road we're doing a baptism outside tomorrow because we expect 80 or so people and I'm only allowed 24 in that building!

Click to expand...

Maybe it is because it is a large building. I was only reflecting on how things are at our parish although I now realise my comment was too general (this is the Eastern Orthodox subforum).

Masks and distancing are still in place. Half of the pews/seating were moved into our parish hall.
No more sign-ups to attend, we had our first coffee hour (outside) since the big shut-down a year ago this past week. We have been open for Liturgy and other services for several months.

my area gets a weekly influx of people from across the country. no mask mandates from the state and no issues with COVID.

gurneyhalleck1 said:

I disagree. If you listen to many if not most of the anti-maskers, it boils down to conspiracy, control, masks don’t work anyway, it’s the mark of the beast, COVID is “just a flu” anyway, I heard this and I heard that...

I see little to no “nuanced thinking” coming from the mask-hating crowd in my area. Most of their “nuanced” thinking comes from hearing from a guy who heard from a guy who read a repost of a guy from YouTube videos that have since been taken down.

Click to expand...

I understand that. But you make my point. You evidently do not encounter said nuanced thinking. You have heard the equivalent of the village atheists, or their fundamental Baptist Billie Joe and Bobby Sue counterparts, and conclude that there is therefore no Christopher Hitchens or Ravi Zacharias among them.

Why should the obvious existence of the virus exclude conspiracy to take advantage of it? Why must it be either/or? Is not a more complex position possible, that admits many of the things you see to be true, but also some things you hold in doubt?

gurneyhalleck1 said:

Our priest is in his mid 60’s, is VERY diabetic, has an amputation (leg), suffered severe burns years back, and is at high risk. We wear masks for Father. I have zero problem with it!! When I read Matins and Liturgy and Presanctified, I take my mask off and keep a huge distance.

Click to expand...

sure. if there are people near you who are high risk that's one thing.

I don’t think masks make as big of a difference as many say, though it likely makes some difference in certain cases. I’m not a medical professional, though I know of some doctors who agree and some that don’t.

However - if it helps protect those at high risk at our church and allows them to be able to attend or if it allows people who work with high risk people (ie the members of our parish who work at nursing homes) to come to church - then I’ll happily wear my mask when walking into the church and at my seat when I am not in the choir. That’s worth it to me. (I also wear them in other public places for similar reasons, but that’s a big reason for me in relation to church and mask wearing). If it helps us to continue coming to Church and participating in Lent, the Eucharist, and our services, then I’ll be happy to do so. If our bishop requests it or if my priest requests it, then I’ll do it.

HOWEVER - shutting down church is a completely different matter. Stopping the Eucharist or even handing out separate spoons for the Eucharist is completely different.

I walked into a public place with a friend and wore a mask - and she equated my actions with conspiracy theorists. Why can’t there be people in between?

Direct Driver said:

Our senior pastor was a germaphobe before this mask and virus nonsense. He doubled down on it and our membership went down so much that I'm honestly thinking he may be out.


People just went to churches that had no mask mandate.

Click to expand...

Three of my coworkers died from this virus nonsense.

InnerPhyre said:

Three of my coworkers died from this virus nonsense.

Click to expand...

"But it's all a scheme by the Masons and the Globalists, who are looking to blot out the Christian faith and install the Antichrist as the world ruler! We have to stand our ground and have nothing to do with these draconian measures, meant only to subdue the population under the excuse of a "fool's virus"!"

tapi said:

"But it's all a scheme by the Masons and the Globalists, who are looking to blot out the Christian faith and install the Antichrist as the world ruler! We have to stand our ground and have nothing to do with these draconian measures, meant only to subdue the population under the excuse of a "fool's virus"!"

Click to expand...

lol, no no, you're not obsessed!

My local parish is not enforcing anything - no masks, distancing, and they're not dipping the spoon in whatever after each communicant. Usually it's just the visitors who I've never seen before who are wearing masks. But it really varies by parish. The next parish over, where I went on Friday, is dipping the spoon but not enforcing masks. Where I went on Wednesday it was masks and dipping the spoon. Where I took my girls for Communion on Nativity we had like 5 people in a row jump on us to put on a mask the second we walked in the door. My local parish also never even closed when parishes in Moscow were supposed to. I'm not sure how we managed that. We even had a supply priest for a few of those weeks, so the higher-ups knew we were open.

InnerPhyre said:

Three of my coworkers died from this virus nonsense.

Click to expand...

One of my coworkers died of this virus as well.

I should be clear. I don't consider the virus to be nonsense, any more than I consider the flu to be nonsense. Both my brother and my wife almost died of the flu two years ago.

It's the response to the virus, the destruction of our economy and culture, that I consider nonsense. It is a classic case of "the cure does more harm than the disease."

I also have an acquaintance that died in a car accident. Four, actually, over the decades - three of them in seat belts. If the government used it to abolish private cars, I'd consider that nonsense. The deaths were anything but. One left a mother of two young children motherless, and a young father using a cane the rest of his life. I still drive.

Direct Driver said:

One of my coworkers died of this virus as well.

I should be clear. I don't consider the virus to be nonsense, any more than I consider the flu to be nonsense. Both my brother and my wife almost died of the flu two years ago.

It's the response to the virus, the destruction of our economy and culture, that I consider nonsense. It is a classic case of "the cure does more harm than the disease."

I also have an acquaintance that died in a car accident. Four, actually, over the decades - three of them in seat belts. If the government used it to abolish private cars, I'd consider that nonsense. The deaths were anything but. One left a mother of two young children motherless, and a young father using a cane the rest of his life. I still drive.

Click to expand...

There are extensive laws in place to ensure that people don’t drive their cars however they want to so that we can drive in a reasonably safe environment. The government can mandate that we must wear motorcycle helmets and seat belts when operating vehicles, so maybe we can meet on some middle ground and agree that masks are a sensible precaution when indoors among groups of people.

InnerPhyre said:

There are extensive laws in place to ensure that people don’t drive their cars however they want to so that we can drive in a reasonably safe environment. The government can mandate that we must wear motorcycle helmets and seat belts when operating vehicles, so maybe we can meet on some middle ground and agree that masks are a sensible precaution when indoors among groups of people.

Click to expand...

It is important to keep in mind that driving is a privilege, and involves the operation of multi ton high speed vehicles by the average person with only minimal skill. I've also lived in two states since I got my motorcycle endorsement on my license. To ride it requires a much more detailed test to get that endorsement. Also, one of those states requires a helmet and the other doesn't I always wore one when I rode, except when riding at low speed for short distances (under 25 mph).

But walking around in public is a right, not a privilege. And breathing through our mouth and nose is literally how we survive. I read a story recently of someone being told by a Karen to wear a mask while working out on a treadmill at a gym. Think about that for a minute. As a long distance bicyclist myself I find it comical.

Here is the compromise I think is reasonable: Those that are out in public that want to continue living as we have for millennia can go out without masks. Those that think it brings real risk to their person and those around them can simply wear one of these when they go out in public:


This way, we can all live our lives according to our own response to the various risks life brings on a daily basis.

It really depends on where one is located; parishes in the urban areas are generally more restrictive while many in more rural areas can, frankly, get away with more lax restrictions. People don't seem to realize the difference between urban and rural settings.

Here along the Central Coast of the People's Republic of Californistan the ROCOR parish officially says to wear masks, but doesn't seem to enforce it a whole lot. Fr will wear a mask while giving Communion.

Up in the San Lorenzo Valley north of Santa Cruz, one parish pretty much started going back to "normal" over a year ago and they don't judge the handful of folks who do wear masks in the church, while the other one is enforcing masks in the church, but doesn't enforce it afterwards during coffee hour.

E.C. said:

It really depends on where one is located; parishes in the urban areas are generally more restrictive while many in more rural areas can, frankly, get away with more lax restrictions. People don't seem to realize the difference between urban and rural settings.

Here along the Central Coast of the People's Republic of Californistan the ROCOR parish officially says to wear masks, but doesn't seem to enforce it a whole lot. Fr will wear a mask while giving Communion.

Up in the San Lorenzo Valley north of Santa Cruz, one parish pretty much started going back to "normal" over a year ago and they don't judge the handful of folks who do wear masks in the church, while the other one is enforcing masks in the church, but doesn't enforce it afterwards during coffee hour.

Click to expand...

You've discovered my dirty little secret.

I've not been in an urban area other than to drive through it since last March. I've driven all over the country for vacations, etc. including driving from my home in rural KY to Chicago and back, Idaho and back, Seattle and back, St Louis and back, and South Texas and back. Never wore a mask on any of those trips. Nobody cared.

You could call me a super spreader, except I don't have it.

Here is something I think a lot of people miss: We are all exposed to germs every day that, if in sufficient quantities, could make us sick or even kill us. The key is not overwhelming your body's ability to fight off an attack. The real world is not like those pandemic movies where a single cell or RNA strand enters your body and, POW, you're part of the Borg. Rather, there are due dates on food because it is estimated that on that date there is enough germs growing in the food to possibly make you sick because your body would be unable to easily fight it off at first. There are always germs in the food. Just not enough that your body can't handle, unless you are the bubble boy or just got out of medical treatment that destroys your immune system.

The latter is what happened to my sister in law when she underwent a new MS treatment. For two years we had to be very careful about germs around her and she never left the house.

But the rest of us are designed to handle it, usually.

BTW, the MS treatment changed my wife's sister's life. It's a major medical breakthrough. For all intents and purposes it is a genuine cure for MS.