anyone else not like Sunday worship?

tall73 said:

We agree on this portion.

It will take some time to work through your other posts. However, to generalize just to make sure I am getting what I see so far, you are of the view everyone is to observe the Torah, including gentiles, and that the Acts 15 requirements were essentially training wheels, correct?

Click to expand...

Yes, Jesus taught obedience to the Torah by word and by example and following Jesus is not just for Jews, but for Gentiles too.

There are 1,050 commandments in the NT, so if the four laws listed in Acts 15:19-21 were an exhaustive list of everything that would ever be required of a mature Gentile believer, then that would exclude over 99% of the commandments in the NT, including the greatest two commandments. However, the moment you try to say that other commandments are obviously included, the then the list loses all power to limit which laws Gentiles should follow. Paul taught more than just those four commandments to Gentiles, such as in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, so it seems pretty clear to me that they were not an exhaustive list for mature Gentiles, but as stated, it was a list intended not to make things too difficult for new believers.

To use an analogy, when an employer hires a new employee, they don't start by having them memorize everything that they will need to know about how to do their job on day one, but rather they start with just the basics with the understanding that they will continue to learn the rest on the job. This is also mirrored by the fact new Christians today are still taught how to follow the Bible over time, and we are all taught a sermon each week. Many Gentiles were coming out of paganism and were unfamiliar with Christianity, so with a sudden influx of Gentiles, it became important to get everyone on the same page about which things were necessary to teach right away and which things could be taught over time in order to avoid overwhelming them.

Soyeong said:

so Paul's problem with the Judaizes was not that they were teaching Gentiles how to follow Christ as if obedience to what God has commanded is somehow a negative thing, but that they were teaching a works-based salvation.
So there is nothing connected with being a Judaizer with thinking that followers of God should follow God's command to keep the 7th day holy in accordance with the example Christ set for us to follow by resting from our work on Saturday.

Click to expand...

THIS! It almost always boils down to this antinomian misunderstanding...

Gregorikos said:

The Eastern Orthodox Church would disagree that Sunday worship was invented by the Roman Catholic Church. Worship on Sunday goes back to the beginning.

Click to expand...

While that is true, Sunday is NOT the Sabbath in Orthodoxy...the 7th day is...always has been and always will be...

Jamdoc said:

Not to be a Judaizer, but I do wish that Baptists at least would go back to Saturday worship, just because Sunday was something instigated by the Roman Catholic Church, and it's kinda like.. even though we're not Catholic, we're obeying a Catholic doctrine that they invented themselves. I don't like the idea of obeying the Pope at all.

Click to expand...

The sabbath is a day of rest. Is going to church restful? A contrary way to answer the same question is, do you have children? That is why I rest on the sabbath, and go to church on Sunday.

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

The lunar weekly Sabbath theory is plain wrong...

Click to expand...

You're in the wrong section. I trust the Orthodox opinion on this subject about as much as I trust the Seventh Day Adventist's. Your loyalty to your denomination supersedes any chance at a rational discourse on the subject.

All calendars were lunar before the Romans made the first solar calendar. Sorry to break it to you, man, but that's the truth. The "week" was a function of lunar cycles. Otherwise, the sabbath is an arbitrary designation, and you can call it whatever day you want.

It's the only way that the Day of Atonement can always be on the same day of the year, yet always be a sabbath. It's an impossibility for a solar calendar, and an inevitability for a lunar calendar.

Incidentally, the Sabbath really is today, which is a Sunday.

nonaeroterraqueous said:

You're in the wrong section. I trust the Orthodox opinion on this subject about as much as I trust the Seventh Day Adventist's. Your loyalty to your denomination supersedes any chance at a rational discourse on the subject.

All calendars were lunar before the Romans made the first solar calendar. Sorry to break it to you, man, but that's the truth. The "week" was a function of lunar cycles. Otherwise, the sabbath is an arbitrary designation, and you can call it whatever day you want.

It's the only way that the Day of Atonement can always be on the same day of the year, yet always be a sabbath. It's an impossibility for a solar calendar, and an inevitability for a lunar calendar.

Click to expand...

LOL you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about...

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

LOL you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about...

Click to expand...

This is not the way intelligent discussions happen.

BTW: mocking someone by giving them a "funny" rating when they were not joking is a reportable offense.

aargh! post showed up twice so I deleted one, only to refresh and find it was a glitch and I had just deleted my only post.

nonaeroterraqueous said:

It's the only way that the Day of Atonement can always be on the same day of the year, yet always be a sabbath. It's an impossibility for a solar calendar, and an inevitability for a lunar calendar.

Click to expand...

The Day of Atonement was a "Holy Convocation" which could also be called a Sabbath because, like the weekly Sabbath, no work of any kind was permitted. It could fall on any day of the week. It did not reset the weekly calendar.

prodromos said:

The Day of Atonement was a "Holy Convocation" which could also be called a Sabbath because, like the weekly Sabbath, no work of any kind was permitted. It could fall on any day of the week. It did not reset the weekly calendar.

Click to expand...

Your information is not substantiated, though I'm sure your church tradition supports the idea. This is not the Orthodox section, by the way, so don't get yourself censored over it. The Day of Atonement was always on the same day of the year and the same day of the week, because it was part of a lunar calendar. The idea of it being a special floating Sabbath that landed on and off the regular sabbaths on different years is not supported by the text. There is no evidence for this idea.

The simplest explanation is usually the best. The Day of Atonement was always a Sabbath. The Day of Atonement was always the same day of the year. It was originally on a lunar calendar, which always put it on the same day of the lunar week. The simplest explanation is that the Sabbaths followed the lunar week, rather than a solar week that would not even be invented until several hundred years later.

Therefore, neither Saturday nor Sunday are the Sabbath.

nonaeroterraqueous said:

Your information is not substantiated,

Click to expand...

It is directly from the Scriptures.

prodromos said:

It is directly from the Scriptures.

Click to expand...

That's good. Then it will be easy to convince me.

nonaeroterraqueous said:

The simplest explanation is usually the best.

Click to expand...

Your explanation is not the simplest. Far from it.

nonaeroterraqueous said:

That's good. Then it will be easy to convince me.

Click to expand...

I doubt that. You appear to be reading the same Scriptures with a very different understanding.

nonaeroterraqueous said:

This is not the Orthodox section, by the way, so don't get yourself censored over it.

Click to expand...

I'm not arguing against Baptist theology. I'm arguing against your theology, which to the best of my knowledge is not taught by Baptists anywhere. Also, Yeshua HaDerekh may be Eastern Orthodox, but he is also Jewish. He has very good knowledge of Hebrew traditions.

Perhaps we should take this conversation to denomination specific theology so that those who are not Baptist are not penalized. They have something to offer on the topic. And while I can post here, being a Baptist, I do not want to bait someone into a violation.

nonaeroterraqueous said:

This is not the way intelligent discussions happen.

Click to expand...

I didn't think it was...hence my response...