Kylie's Last Thursday Challenge

Estrid said:

A gish is inherently dishonest.

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So is a rigged vote.

AV1611VET said:

So is a rigged vote.

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Like the Council of Nicea in 325?

AV1611VET said:

So is a rigged vote.

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You going to talk about Pluto again?

Get over it, the definition changed.

VirOptimus said:

Get over it, the definition changed.

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It was changed by a rigged vote.

AV1611VET said:

It was changed by a rigged vote.

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Definitions isnt decided by popularity.

Try to get some new material, this is just old hat showing how little you understand about science.

Kylie said:

Do you find this idea plausible at all? If you do, why? If not, why not?

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Ordinarily speaking, I try not to write ideas off immediately.
I have a system.
I try to cultivate a good attitude to learning
1) Humility. I don't allow myself to believe I know everything.
2) Open mindedness. I get ready to listen and understand, rather than judging.
3) Education/Listen/Understand. I try to find someone who is willing and capable of explaining the theory fully, without bias. I listen to them and make sure I understand what they are relaying to me.
4) Balance. I find the following thought useful. Pairing fear and adventure in a contrast. I assume that fear keeps you conservative, adventure encourages progression. I try to find a sweet-spot. I try not to bound off believing every little thing, nor do I think it's entirely useful to write off anything that isn't status quo.

For me to make a judgement on omphalos being plausible or not, I'd like more information.
1) Scientific method. I'd like to see the full story of thursdayism; observed, theorised over, tested for accuracy and cross examined against other theories.
2) Witness account. Matching accounts from independent witnesses that reveal phenomenon being observed. (This isn't necessarily enough to convince me a thing is probable).
3) Personal experience. I have no personal experience of thursdayism being true. Nothing that indicates it being true. Nor do I have anything that indicates thursdayism being false.

One of the above three, might make thursdayism more plausible to me.

P.S. Playing with an answer - that's my shot. On a serious note, it's an interesting question. What is knowledge, belief, fact, truth. How do we arrive at our conclusions, why do we believe what we believe, are we consistent?
P.P.S. My post is too long. No one will read it haha

SelfSim said:

Not me! My mind has not updated my knowledge with that meaning.

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Deep down you know.

“For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:” (Romans 1:20).

The Trinity is found even in the invisible things of the creation of this world.

Atoms have three components to them and yet they are one.

Estrid said:

A gish is inherently dishonest.

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I don't care to really know because using fancy insulting terms like True Scottsman, Strawman sounds like we are in highschool instead of just speaking plainly what we mean. Sure, some of them may be true on some level, but the problem is an attempt to not really explain anything on our own. Anyone can throw around terms, but to speak in real thought with intelligence and making a good argument is another thing. For have you not heard someone use the word strawman and yet it was not a strawman? They keep using the word strawman as a deflection. That is why terms like these are not all that helpful in my opinion. Imagine a whole thread that just used these terms alone. There would be no real argument or discussion. For example: I disagree with the term Gish Galop. For me: Information is not my enemy. So if a person throws in a resource that provides a ton of evidence as an argument, it does not mean they are wrong by any means for doing so. It would be like me giving a person a Bible and telling them to read it for themselves with God's help rather than if I just gave them a few verses. I am also not called to learn these terms. To analyze the validity of these terms and to see if they are always true is a full time job that I did not sign up for. So I would encourage people to just speak plainy. If a person really wants to be intelligent, they should learn the unique phrases that the Bible uses. These terms that folks use today will pass away. But God's Word will endure forever.

VirOptimus said:

Try to get some new material,

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Is this thread new to you: The Pluto Issue (again)

Kylie said:

So? What makes you think that the only religion that Got it right is the one that is treated the worst? Also, do you think that this might be because there are simply lots of Christians? How about you do it by percentages?

And you'll have a hard time getting me to believe that Christians are treated badly in the US when every single president you've ever had has been one, and if an openly non-Christian person was to run for office they'd have a huge amount of backlash.

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Think. Banks are attacked because they have value inside them. The same reason is true when it comes to Christianity. The value or precious pearl of great price inside a Christian is Jesus Christ. As they hated Jesus, so shall they hate their followers. In other words, if nothing did not have any value, then it would not be attacked on such a large wordwide scale. It's like the big elephant in the room that you are ignoring when you see Christian persecution increasing in this world. It's attacked because Satan hates God, His Word, and His people. You don't see people on a worldwide scale being persecuted because they use the internet because most everyone finds it useful to them. But because Jesus and His Word points out a person's own sins, then it become uncomfortable for people because they don't want to give up their sinful way of life to follow the Lord.

AV1611VET said:

Is this thread new to you: The Pluto Issue (again)

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Thanks for the QED.

Bible Highlighter said:

I don't care to really know because using fancy insulting terms like True Scottsman, Strawman sounds like we are in highschool instead of just speaking plainly what we mean. Sure, some of them may be true on some level, but the problem is an attempt to not really explain anything on our own. Anyone can throw around terms, but to speak in real thought with intelligence and making a good argument is another thing. For have you not heard someone use the word strawman and yet it was not a strawman? They keep using the word strawman as a deflection. That is why terms like these are not all that helpful in my opinion. Imagine a whole thread that just used these terms alone. There would be no real argument or discussion. For example: I disagree with the term Gish Galop. For me: Information is not my enemy. So if a person throws in a resource that provides a ton of evidence as an argument, it does not mean they are wrong by any means for doing so. It would be like me giving a person a Bible and telling them to read it for themselves with God's help rather than if I just gave them a few verses. I am also not called to learn these terms. To analyze the validity of these terms and to see if they are always true is a full time job that I did not sign up for. So I would encourage people to just speak plainy.

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So would I. Nothing much plainer than to say
a gish is dishonest. And it plainly is.
Gish gallop is a plain well known term.

There is nothing much less plain than a flood of
words, videos and links, such as you provided.

A similar device is a " document dump".

Look it up why that, or "gish"is dishonest
if need be.

IF there were to be just one (1) fact contrary to
ToE, you could disprove it.

Plain talk.

But you nor anyone has even that one fact.

If you think you do, state it. Plain talk.

VirOptimus said:

Thanks for the QED.

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You don't have any posts in that thread.

So, unless you just lurked in it, it must be new to you.

Just what you asked for -- something new.

Kylie said:

You're an expert in radiometric dating then, are you? Because Kevin R Henke, who wrote THIS rebuttal of the specific claim about Mount St Helens, is a Ph.D and a geochemist, so I think it's safe to say he knows a heck of a lot more about this topic than you. And he says the creationist claim is wrong.

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He is biased towards his life of sin. So he has a motivation involved. Being a Christian is having a relationship with GOD and in following what He says. It's a life of self sacrifice and it does not make you popular. This man's motives cannot be trusted in being pure because he does not have a standard of morality that is consistent that would also be a standard that is in line with a book or guideline for all of his fellow scientists.

You said:

No, what source do you have that is better than someone who studies this topic for a living and has years of experience?

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I don't trust him because he is sinful and he is looking to eliminate the truth of God which is impossible because God is clearly seen even by His handiwork (the creation).

You said:

In short, show me one case where a YEC position yields more accurate information than an old earth in any field in which such a difference is important.

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Dinosaur blood being discovered in T-Rex bones is a good one. If the Earth was millions of years old, then the blood should have dried up completely by now. But again, I am sure you have an ace up your sleeve to deny it. Again, these kinds of things are not really going to change your mind. Only the Lord Jesus Christ can change you so that you can see.

You said:

Spoken like someone who has no idea what evolution actually is.

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Check out the video sources I provided for you and see for yourself if I am correct or not.

You said:

And why do you think he is qualified to speak on this topic?

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A child can present something that is true and yet it is still true. The person presenting the facts does not really have anything to do with the evidences or information that they are presenting. He is just presenting the facts or information. What you do with those facts or information is up to you. Again, watch the video by Chuck Missler and you will see a side of the Bible that you have not known before. Chuck is merely presenting facts that show that God's Word is divine in origin.

You said:

You keep making the claim, but you never support it. Posting a passage from the Bible is not evidence.

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Sure it is because the Bible aligns with all Science, and things we know in this world. Most importantly the Bible is a guidebook for the most purest form of living correctly and in having a relationship with GOD. I am sure God knows more than you.

You said:

I can't tell you how many times I've had the arrogant "You're just closed-minded to the truth" argument thrown at me by Christians who can't conceive that someone can look at the same things they have and come to a different conclusion.

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But what do you have to offer in return? A life without GOD. A life full of sin. A life without the fruits of the Spirit like love, joy, and peace. So you offer nothing that a Christian truly wants.

You said:

BTW, if you are serving God, does that mean you are giving up all your Earthly possessions, as instructed in Luke 18:22?

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Keep reading. In Luke 19:1-10, we learn that Zacchaeus gave only half of his goods to the poor; and if he had taken any thing from any man by false accusation, he would restore unto them fourfold; And yet, Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house. So obviously this did not apply to every single believer.

Estrid said:

So would I. Nothing much plainer than to say
a gish is dishonest. And it plainly is.

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Again, I don't care. Such terms will not mean anything when God sets up His kingdom. I hope you will change your mind about reading the Bible more, and accept the Lord at some point in time so you can be there.

Gish gallop is a plain well known term.

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Right, ask your average person on the street or even one's family and they will have no clue.
It's for the elite upper class folk who think they know everything.
I am a simple guy. Speak to me in simple terms.

You said:

There is nothing much less plain than a flood of
words, videos and links, such as you provided.

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It is plain. One can go through such a resource over time and take it in bite size pieces if they truly are interested in the topic. Or do you throw out text books in school?

You said:

A similar device is a " document dump".

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Again, I don't care. Information is not your enemy. If it was, then people would not read and study big text books to get an education to make money. Do the students say to their teacher or the school that the text books (for the class) is document dumping? No.

You said:

Look it up why that, or "gish"is dishonest
if need be.

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A flawed sinful human invented this term. So why should I trust that they are teaching with this term is reliable and true? If it is a school of thought that seeks to justify a life of sin and a life without God then it is selfishly motivated.

AV1611VET said:

You don't have any posts in that thread.

So, unless you just lurked in it, it must be new to you.

Just what you asked for -- something new.

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I can read without posting.

You have whined about pluto for many many years.

Bible Highlighter said:

Again, I don't care. Such terms will not mean anything when God sets up His kingdom. I hope you will change your mind about reading the Bible more, and accept the Lord at some point in time so you can be there.



Right, ask your average person on the street or even one's family and they will have no clue.
It's for the elite upper class folk who think they know everything.
I am a simple guy. Speak to me in simple terms.



It is plain. One can go through such a resource over time and take it in bite size pieces if they truly are interested in the topic. Or do you throw out text books in school?



Again, I don't care. Information is not your enemy. If it was, then people would not read and study big text books to get an education to make money. Do the students say to their teacher or the school that the text books (for the class) is document dumping? No.



A flawed sinful human invented this term. So why should I trust that they are teaching with this term is reliable and true? If it is a school of thought that seeks to justify a life of sin and a life without God then it is selfishly motivated.

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You wanna preach there are subfora for that.

This isnt one of them.

Bible Highlighter said:

Again, I don't care. Such terms will not mean anything when God sets up His kingdom.



Right, ask your average person on the street or even one's family and they will have no clue.
It's for the elite upper class folk who think they know everything.
I am a simple guy. Speak to me in simple terms.



It is plain. One can go through such a resource over time and take it in bite size pieces if they truly are interested in the topic. Or do you throw out text books in school?



Again, I don't care. Information is not your enemy. If it was, then people would not read and study big text books to get an education to make money. Do the students say to their teacher or the school that the text books (for the class) is document dumping? No.



A flawed sinful human invented this term. So why should I trust that they are teaching with this term is reliable and true? If it is a school of thought that seeks to justify a life of sin and a life without God then it is selfishly motivated.

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Plain talk-
That was a lot of blah blah but
you've not one (1) fact to disprove
ToE.

VirOptimus said:

You wanna preach there are subfora for that.

This isnt one of them.

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If you can preach a world without God, then I can preach a world with God. So...
Believe on the Lord Jesus. For He died for your sins, He was buried, and He was risen three days later on your behalf. Believe on Him and you can have salvation. Believe while there is still time.

Estrid said:

Plain talk-
That was a lot of blah blah but
you've not one (1) fact to disprove
ToE.

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Jesus loves you. He is the only One that can truly give you the peace and love that you seek in this life. Nothing else will truly satisfy you. All other things will be a hollow pursuit.