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Maybe it's time to define, "Fall Away". Does it always carry the same meaning/use, in Scripture?
I assume, then, you mean it always refers to the same thing, in Scripture? Apostasy. Does it also mean, 'fallen from grace"?It's the definition of "apostasy."
No, there are many ways to "fall away." Only some apply to "religious apostasy; i.e., revolt, rebellion, defection, to forsake, fall away:I assume, then, you mean it always refers to the same thing, in Scripture? Apostasy. Does it also mean, 'fallen from grace"?
True faith does not apostasize. The elect do not apostasize permanently, only false faith apostasizes permanently.Ok so define it. What exactly is Apostasy? And what are the implications for the end of the Elect?
VERY GOOD! THANK YOU! Better said than I could have done.No, there are many ways to "fall away." Only some apply to "religious apostasy; i.e., revolt, rebellion, defection, to forsake, fall away:
apostasia - defection, revolt, apostasy, Acts 21:21; 2 Thessalonians 2:3
ekpipto - to fall out, 2 Peter 3:17
parapipto - to fall away from, Hebrews 6:6
aphistemi - to withdraw from, 1Timothy 4:1
parabaino - to fall, transgress, Acts 1:25
"Fallen from grace" in Paul's usage is simply making works of the law necessary for justification/salvation. The error can be corrected. If not, it is not saving faith.
True faith does not apostasize. The elect do not apostasize permanently, only false faith apostasizes permanently.
If any elect "fall away," it may be because their faith is not yet a true faith, maybe just intellectual assent, with no Holy Spirit heart work. But there will be a Holy Spirit heart work that will bring the elect to true faith, which true faith does not apostasize.
Thank you. Good post.Perhaps it would be useful to start with listing the verses where the expression appears. Then we can look at the context and discuss what is meant in each case.
Peter declared, “Even if all fall away, I will not.” (Mark 14:29)
"All this I have told you so that you will not fall away." John 16:1
"“You will all fall away,” Jesus told them, “for it is written: “ ‘I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered.’" Mark 14:27 and Mt 26:31
"But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away." Mt 13:21, Mark 4:17 and Luke 8:13
"Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position." 2Peter 3:17
Did I miss any?
I see I spoke too soon answering your previous post. Oh well.I also found
"You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace." Galatians 5:4
"It is impossible for those who [...] have shared in the Holy Spirit [...] and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace." Hebrews 6:4-6
No, there are many ways to "fall away." Only some apply to "religious apostasy; i.e., revolt, rebellion, defection, to forsake, fall away:
apostasia - defection, revolt, apostasy, Acts 21:21; 2 Thessalonians 2:3
ekpipto - to fall out, 2 Peter 3:17
parapipto - to fall away from, Hebrews 6:6
aphistemi - to withdraw from, 1Timothy 4:1
parabaino - to fall, transgress, Acts 1:25
"Fallen from grace" in Paul's usage is simply making works of the law necessary for justification/salvation. The error can be corrected. If not, it is not saving faith.
True faith does not apostasize. The elect do not apostasize permanently, only false faith apostasizes permanently.
If any elect "fall away," it may be because their faith is not yet a true faith, maybe just intellectual assent, with no Holy Spirit heart work. But there will be a Holy Spirit heart work that will bring the elect to true faith, which true faith does not apostasize.
Done.Hello, Claire. Would you please, or may I, (I would prefer if you would) quote this post of yours to another thread, which was my reason for starting this thread. This other thread, by the way, was begun by someone I know pretty well, who will LOVE your post.
When does any particular sin(s) become backsliding, apostasy, or "falling away?"
Hi,I also found
"You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace." Galatians 5:4
"It is impossible for those who [...] have shared in the Holy Spirit [...] and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace." Hebrews 6:4-6
Hi,
Hebrews 6:6 "If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."
The verbs "crucify" and "put" are present tense denoting an action that is ongoing, sustained. So the idea is that it is impossible for those that continue to crucify and continue to put to shame Christ. Christ is the reason one repents, hence as long as one continues to crucify and continues to put to shame the reason (Christ) to repent then repentance will be impossible. But if one quits crucifying and putting to shame Christ he can come to repentance. Those Hebrew converts were warned about becoming apostates (Hebrews 2:1-3; Hebrews 3:12; Hebrews 4:1 etc). So the idea is not that the Hebrew who quits believing can never be saved but are being warned about falling into a state of unbelief and remaining there in continuing to crucify and put to shame Christ.
Those who become apostates don't necessarily have to remain in that state. Apostasy is a state one chooses to be in and therefore can choose to remove himself from that state. The prodigal went from being spiritually alive to be spiritually dead. But did not choose to remain dead but 'came to himself' and returned to his father thereby spiritually alive AGAIN.
Religious apostasy is to fall away from a profession of faith.G4098 - piptō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (KJV)
"fall"
"to descend from a higher place to a lower; to fall (either from or upon); to be thrust down"
"fall" carries the idea of a change in position. One falls from a tree then his position has changed from a higher place up in the tree to a lower place on the ground.
Similar to apostate:
Strong's Greek: 646. ἀποστασία (apostasia) -- defection, revolt
646 apostasía (from 868 /aphístēmi, "leave, depart," which is derived from 575 /apó, "away from" and 2476 /histémi, "stand") – properly, departure (implying desertion); apostasy – literally, "a leaving, from a previous standing."
apostate - move away from a previous standing. 1 Corinthians 9:27 Paul spoke of himself becoming a reprobate, adokimos - become rejected, castaway, unfit.....a change of state/position.
If eternal security were true, then there could be no such a thing as an apostate or fallen.
Do you have a book, chapter, verse to back this idea up?Religious apostasy is to fall away from a profession of faith.
Profession is not necessarily possession. Those who apostasize had only a profession, they had no possession of true faith.
The whole counsel of God:Do you have a book, chapter, verse to back this idea up?
That standing being a profession of faith.An apostate is one whose position has changed, one who as moved away from a previous standing.
Correct.One who was never really saved is not one who can fall for he is and was already in a fallen lost state. Obviously one cannot fall from an already fallen state.
The whole counsel of God:
The whole counsel of God:
1 John 2:19 - they left the brethren because they were not true brethren (believers)
- they left the brethren because they were not true brethren (believers)
Luke 8:13 - they looked like they had true faith, but they didn't because they had no root (new birth)
That standing being a profession of faith.
Correct.
An apostate falls from/abandons a profession of faith, which may, or may not, be a possession of (true) faith.
"No one can come to me unless the Father enables him." (John 6:65)
"All that the Father gives to me will come to me." (John 6:37)
"I shall lose none of all that he has given me." (John 6:39)
Do the math. . .Jesus loses none whom the Father gives him. . .true faith does not (truly) apostasize
Do you believe that we can undo, by an act of our own will, what only God can do in the first place?If eternal security were true, then there could be no such a thing as an apostate or fallen.
Salvation is not monergestic nor unconditional. Both God and man have a role in man's salvation, Jude 1:21. When the Christian fails to keep his role in what God has required for salvation then the Christian loses the promise of salvation he once had.Do you believe that we can undo, by an act of our own will, what only God can do in the first place?
Luke 15:4 NIV
“Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it?