a physical body in heaven?

Davy

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Nov 25, 2017
4,861
1,022
USA
✟267,597.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
In several places in the Bible, God is described as having the physical attributes of man. He “sets [his] face” against evil (Leviticus 20:6); the Lord will make “His face” to shine on you (Numbers 6:25); He “stretched out his hand” (Exodus 7:5; Isaiah 23:11), and God scattered enemies with His strong arm (Psalm 89:10). He “stoops down to look on the heavens and the earth” (Psalm 113:6). He “keeps his eye” on the land (Deuteronomy 11:12), the “eyes of the Lord” are on the righteous (Psalm 34:15), and the earth is His “footstool” (Isaiah 66:1). Do all these verses mean that God literally has eyes, a face, hands and feet? Not necessarily. God is spirit, not flesh and blood, but because we are not spirit, these anthropomorphisms help us to understand God’s nature and actions. What is an anthropomorphism? | GotQuestions.org

There is no debate necessary on this matter from God's Word. His Word proves that The Father has a form and image that looks like man. That is what Genesis 1:26-27 is about especially, and that image of man did not originate with the man Adam; it originated from God's Own Image in the Heavenly.
 
Upvote 0

Davy

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Nov 25, 2017
4,861
1,022
USA
✟267,597.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
An angel is a spirit being. this article will explain much Angels, God’s Ministering Spirits | Bible.org

I can read God's Word. I don't need man to me what God's Word says on the matter.

In Genesis 18, The LORD appeared with two other men to Abraham. Abraham prepared food and drink for them, and they did eat. That was Lord Jesus prior to His being born through woman's womb, and those other two men with Him were the two angels sent to Lot which the sodomites also saw as 'men'.

So HOW did those angels eat man's food without a flesh body???


That's one of the things that article does not address. It doesn't try to explain how those angels were able to appear on earth and eat man's food without a flesh body. Some try to say they temporarily put on a flesh body, just for it to make sense in their own mind, but Scripture says nothing on that. The reality per God's Word, is that the idea of Spirit is simply another dimension of existence, and it is a dimension that controls this material world, simply because from that Spirit dimension is where God created this material universe from. So not being able to understand what that dimension of Spirit is about, and that God Himself is a Spirit (John 4), while it still means having an outward form and likeness, means to not really understand God and His creation.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

disciple Clint

Well-Known Member
Mar 26, 2018
15,258
5,990
Pacific Northwest
✟200,679.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I leave those who think the way of understanding in God's Word is through men, and not directly from God by The Holy Spirit. A commentary is never... intended to replace understanding in God's Word directly from Scripture. A commentary is only a help, not the main source. Multiple Scripture Witnesses and help by The Holy Spirit is the required method.
The Holy Spirit expects us to do our own homework.
 
Upvote 0

disciple Clint

Well-Known Member
Mar 26, 2018
15,258
5,990
Pacific Northwest
✟200,679.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
There is no debate necessary on this matter from God's Word. His Word proves that The Father has a form and image that looks like man. That is what Genesis 1:26-27 is about especially, and that image of man did not originate with the man Adam; it originated from God's Own Image in the Heavenly.
I know of only one denomination that believes that, do you know others?
 
Upvote 0

disciple Clint

Well-Known Member
Mar 26, 2018
15,258
5,990
Pacific Northwest
✟200,679.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I can read God's Word. I don't need man to me what God's Word says on the matter.

In Genesis 18, The LORD appeared with two other men to Abraham. Abraham prepared food and drink for them, and they did eat. That was Lord Jesus prior to His being born through woman's womb, and those other two men with Him were the two angels sent to Lot which the sodomites also saw as 'men'.

So HOW did those angels eat man's food without a flesh body???


That's one of the things that article does not address. It doesn't try to explain how those angels were able to appear on earth and eat man's food without a flesh body. Some try to say they temporarily put on a flesh body, just for it to make sense in their own mind, but Scripture says nothing on that. The reality per God's Word, is that the idea of Spirit is simply another dimension of existence, and it is a dimension that controls this material world, simply because from that Spirit dimension is where God created this material universe from. So not being able to understand what that dimension of Spirit is about, and that God Himself is a Spirit (John 4), while it still means having an outward form and likeness, means to not really understand God and His creation.
I have never considered the possibility that all those highly respected theologians over the past 2000 years were wrong, I guess that is just being narrow minded on my part.
 
Upvote 0

Davy

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Nov 25, 2017
4,861
1,022
USA
✟267,597.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
The Holy Spirit expects us to do our own homework.

God gave the method for study of His Word in Isaiah 28. The leaders in Jerusalem mocked it.

Isa 28:13
13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

KJV

And what's funny, is that some Churches wrongly interpret that, saying that we are NOT to study God's Word precept upon precept, line upon line. Those He speaks of there wouldn't do it His way line upon line, and thus His Word became too much for them, like a 'stone of stumbling' to them.

Isa 8:12-15
12 Say ye not, 'A confederacy', to all them to whom this people shall say, 'A confederacy'; neither fear ye their fear, nor be afraid.

13 Sanctify the LORD of hosts Himself; and let Him be your fear, and let Him be your dread.

14 And He shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.


15 And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.

KJV
 
Upvote 0

Davy

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Nov 25, 2017
4,861
1,022
USA
✟267,597.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Continuing my previous subject about line upon line Bible study...

What do we see happening with most Churches today with study of God's Word? Do we see line upon line teaching of God's Word? Not usually. Most often it's a topical coverage of whatever subject the preacher either gets from their denomination's Quarterly lesson guide sent from some far away city, or some idea the preacher feels moved to preach on.

Same thing happens in Sunday school often too, teaching from a lesson guide written by God knows who at the denomination's headquarters, making sure the congregation gets the specific 'dogma' of men running that denomination.

I revealed this matter to a brother one time, and he asked how could this be. I told him the next time in Sunday school, ask the teacher when he might began at Genesis 1 and go all the way through, chapter by chapter. His Sunday school teacher laughed at him and said something like, "you must think we have all the time in the world!".

Why is this happening in many Churches today?

The Scripture in Isaiah 8, Isaiah 28, and what Peter said in 1 Peter 2:6-10, reveals God ordained this to be this way, that His Word would actually be a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense for some, mainly those who it is like precept upon precept, line upon line, etc. And God made understanding in it that way so those who do NOT do it that way, instead will fall backward, stumble, and be taken (in deception).

That is exactly... one the biggest problems today in many Churches. They are too busy feeding men's doctrines to the congregation instead of covering God's Word line upon line, chapter by chapter, so that GOD Himself speaks to His people. The Levite priest's job was to do this line upon line to the people, and give them the meaning. If your Church won't do it, then it is left up to you to do it.

This is where new ground is broken, because our Heavenly Father and His Son and The Holy Spirit will... show you the proper understanding in His Word, as you discipline yourself in it line upon line. While many play Church, you will actually be learning directly from God by The Holy Spirit. This our Lord Jesus promised us when He said if one continues in His Word you will be His disciple indeed, you will know the Truth and the Truth will make you free.
 
Upvote 0

Davy

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Nov 25, 2017
4,861
1,022
USA
✟267,597.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I know of only one denomination that believes that, do you know others?

Yeah, there are many denominations that heed that Genesis 1:26-27 Scripture as written, about God creating man in His Own Image Likeness, which of course is about the outward likeness of a 'man'.
 
Upvote 0

Davy

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Nov 25, 2017
4,861
1,022
USA
✟267,597.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I have never considered the possibility that all those highly respected theologians over the past 2000 years were wrong, I guess that is just being narrow minded on my part.

I figured you wouldn't be able to answer my question of how could The LORD and the two angels that appeared to Abraham as "men", could eat man's food without a flesh body (Gen.18).

Gen 19:1-3
19 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;


2 And he said, "Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways." And they said, "Nay; but we will abide in the street all night."

3 And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.

KJV

Huh? Those two angels ate the feast that Lot prepared for them? How, since angels don't have flesh bodies???

I guess your so-called respected theologians over the past 2000 years failed you, since you haven't been able to give answer to that.
 
Upvote 0

disciple Clint

Well-Known Member
Mar 26, 2018
15,258
5,990
Pacific Northwest
✟200,679.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Yeah, there are many denominations that heed that Genesis 1:26-27 Scripture as written, about God creating man in His Own Image Likeness, which of course is about the outward likeness of a 'man'.
your post about Isa 28:13 answered the question I had.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

disciple Clint

Well-Known Member
Mar 26, 2018
15,258
5,990
Pacific Northwest
✟200,679.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I figured you wouldn't be able to answer my question of how could The LORD and the two angels that appeared to Abraham as "men", could eat man's food without a flesh body (Gen.18).

Gen 19:1-3
19 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;


2 And he said, "Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways." And they said, "Nay; but we will abide in the street all night."

3 And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.

KJV

Huh? Those two angels ate the feast that Lot prepared for them? How, since angels don't have flesh bodies???

I guess your so-called respected theologians over the past 2000 years failed you, since you haven't been able to give answer to that.
Sorry I thought the answer was obvious they did that by the same power that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah
 
Upvote 0

Davy

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Nov 25, 2017
4,861
1,022
USA
✟267,597.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Sorry I thought the answer was obvious they did that by the same power that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah

Why don't you just admit you don't know, because that's what you show.

You don't know how Lord Jesus in His resurrected body could appear and disappear among His disciples and eat man's food, nor do you know how Lord Jesus and the two angels with Him could appear to Abraham without a flesh body, and eat man's food. You just don't know. And that's really no disgrace, because Apostle John didn't know either...

1 John 3:2
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is.

KJV
 
Upvote 0

disciple Clint

Well-Known Member
Mar 26, 2018
15,258
5,990
Pacific Northwest
✟200,679.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Why don't you just admit you don't know, because that's what you show.

You don't know how Lord Jesus in His resurrected body could appear and disappear among His disciples and eat man's food, nor do you know how Lord Jesus and the two angels with Him could appear to Abraham without a flesh body, and eat man's food. You just don't know. And that's really no disgrace, because Apostle John didn't know either...

1 John 3:2
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is.

KJV
You need to stop trying to tell me what I know and what I do not know and start concentrating on what you know and dont know.
 
Upvote 0

yeshuasavedme

Senior Veteran
May 31, 2004
12,811
777
✟97,665.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Where is it written that Adam in God's Garden of Eden was in the third heaven? You are making that up.

In Genesis 2, God's Garden of Eden was ON EARTH. And that is where God formed Adam from the dust of the GROUND. As shown in Ecclesiastes 12:5-7, our flesh is made from the earthly elements, and the earth is where God formed Adam's flesh.

Another proof that God's Eden was ON EARTH when He formed Adam was the fact that God's River in Eden flowed out to feed four other rivers UPON THE EARTH, two of which are still on earth today, Euphrates and Tigris (or Hiddikel). This is what Genesis 2 shows.

Once Adam and Eve had sinned, it was then that He cast them out of His Garden that was ON EARTH, and then placed Cherubim (plural) to guard the tree of life, which including MOVING His Eden OFF THE EARTH to the hidden dimension where it is now, the heavenly.

This is why in the future of God's Kingdom under Christ, God's Eden and His River with the tree of life is prophesied to return TO THIS EARTH, in final (Ezekiel 47; Revelation 22).
You did not respond to my excellent rebuttal.
I love the Word of God and I read it with “open eyes”.
So, the 4 rivers are still on earth, and the River that came out of Eden and watered the Garden and then became the “head waters” of 4 rivers on earth was and is an atmospheric river. Atmospheric rivers can carry more water than the Amazon.
We lived in the Pacific Northwest for decades and we had an atmospheric River called the Pineapple Express come out of “heaven” above the Hawaii area and dump on us about Thanksgiving every year.
It also would dump on California, some years.
The atmospheric river that came out of Eden was fed by the waters above the heavens, which you can read about in Genesis 1, day 2, of creation week.

And as to Eden: it is also called the holy Mount Zion of the heavenly realm in the ancient writings, and it is in the third heaven, and that was formed on day 2, also, of creation week, when the heavens were stretched out between the cut in two elemental waters of creation and half lifted above the stretched out heavens and half remaining below the stretched out heavens.

It all started right here, on this earth, which is the center of God’s creation.
So in the stretched out heavens, which are stretched out in stories/layers, as the Word states, there is Mount Eden, where God’s Garden is planted, in which Adam was taken and set to be a guardian there, as the original Hebrew wording clearly states.
Use the concordance and look at the words used for Adam being taken to the Garden of God/Paradise, in which He would have remained as the high priest and high king of earth, over his kingdom which the Creator made for him to reign over, with free going back and forth forever....

That is to be restored in the New Man Name, and going up and down will commence when the veil is removed that is spread over all the nations and heaven is opened to our eyes again.
And Paul said he was caught up to the third heaven, to Paradise/God’s Garden, in 2 Cor...
Jesus said the Tree of Life is in the midst of the Paradise of God, and that is where it always has been, from the beginning of creation.

As to Paradise ever being on this earth below the heavens: there is not one single Scripture that teaches that, but much to be found in the facts of where it was and still is.

2 Cor 12:2-4
I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth)
How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.


Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

And FYI: modern men did not understand atmospheric rivers until not so many years ago, "
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Davy
Upvote 0

yeshuasavedme

Senior Veteran
May 31, 2004
12,811
777
✟97,665.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
what Scriptural evidence do you have for the new concepts you are introducing?
List one, and I will answer you from the Word. Then list one, and I will likewise reply to you from the Word...and so on.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

yeshuasavedme

Senior Veteran
May 31, 2004
12,811
777
✟97,665.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
An angel is a spirit being. this article will explain much Angels, God’s Ministering Spirits | Bible.org
There are Holy Watcher Angels in heaven who stand as flames of fire and can appear as men on earth -or, they can also appear as flames of fire on earth.
Judges 13:8-20

Hebrews 13:2
Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

Exo 13:21
And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night:

Exo 23:20

Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.
Exo 23:21
Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.

Genesis 32:24
And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man (not an Adam, but called a “man/ish”) with him until the breaking of the day.
Gen 32:30
And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
Hos 12:3 -
He took his brother by the heel in the womb, and by his strength he had power with God:

Yea, he had power over the angel, and prevailed: he wept, and made supplication unto him: he found him in Bethel, and there he spake with us;

Even the YHVH God of hosts; the YHVH is his memorial.

The angel who was the “Presence/Face” of
YHVH who appeared as a cloud by day and pillar of fire by night for the 40 years in the wilderness also wrestled with Jacob and gave Him the Name of the New Man who was to come, as an oracle of the adoption into that Name by those of Adam who enter into the Covenant of the Blood of the Atonement.

In the Book of Enoch, Penuel is the Angel of the Face (of God).
He appears as a man (Ish) to wrestle with Jacob, and a pillar of fire and pillar of a cloud to Israel in the desert for 40 years.
YHVH says “My Name is in Him”, obey Him.

As to things appearing and going through solid walls, that is done by Jesus before His resurrection as well as after, and by Peter and many other disciples of the LORD through the ages, as testimonies left to read attest to.
Nothing of this creation is solid matter, but every thing created is composed of atoms, and if the atoms of a “solid” are not moving around the nucleus at the same speed as another “solid”, then the two do not collide but can pass through. Both are “solid”, but they can pass through one another.
Now that is not my expertise, but the simple-est way I remember a demonstration of that in a creation film....forgot the title, and the name of demonstrator scientist.
 
Upvote 0

yeshuasavedme

Senior Veteran
May 31, 2004
12,811
777
✟97,665.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I can read God's Word.... and that God Himself is a Spirit (John 4)
You missed it there. Another invention of men who translated without understanding, themselves, many times, and so, myths are born.
God is “Spirit” says that passage, not “a” spirit.
He is the Father of the “spirits of all flesh”
Says the Word.
Every flesh is one “kind/spirit” with it’s own flesh.
Adam is one spirit, one flesh, one bone, one blood, and made male and female. Use your concordance and see that is so.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Davy
Upvote 0

yeshuasavedme

Senior Veteran
May 31, 2004
12,811
777
✟97,665.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
So you're saying that Adam fellowshipped with the pre-incarnate Son of God, Jesus of Nazareth?

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. . .The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us." (John 1:1, John 1:14)
In the language of Ro 5:14, "as did Adam who was a pattern of the one to come (Christ)."

Pattern is not a copy.
Patter is the original.

Do you understand that the pattern is the (original) form, model, design, lay-out, which is then copied,
do you understand that the pattern is not the copy?

In Romans 5:14, Adam is the pattern, Jesus is the copy.
The Scripture states that Adam was made in the image of God.
That image “was to come” in flesh, and was not come in flesh when Adam was formed in that image. Romans 5:14 says so.
So Adam is made in the very tselem of God, but that image was not yet come; was not yet flesh, when Adam was formed in it.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Davy
Upvote 0

disciple Clint

Well-Known Member
Mar 26, 2018
15,258
5,990
Pacific Northwest
✟200,679.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
List one, and I will answer you from the Word. Then list one, and I will likewise reply to you from the Word...and so on.
OK lets start with this statement:
So, the 4 rivers are still on earth, and the River that came out of Eden and watered the Garden and then became the “head waters” of 4 rivers on earth was and is an atmospheric river. Atmospheric rivers can carry more water than the Amazon.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

disciple Clint

Well-Known Member
Mar 26, 2018
15,258
5,990
Pacific Northwest
✟200,679.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
There are Holy Watcher Angels in heaven who stand as flames of fire and can appear as men on earth -or, they can also appear as flames of fire on earth.
Judges 13:8-20

Hebrews 13:2
Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

Exo 13:21
And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night:

Exo 23:20

Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.
Exo 23:21
Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.

Genesis 32:24
And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man (not an Adam, but called a “man/ish”) with him until the breaking of the day.
Gen 32:30
And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
Hos 12:3 -
He took his brother by the heel in the womb, and by his strength he had power with God:

Yea, he had power over the angel, and prevailed: he wept, and made supplication unto him: he found him in Bethel, and there he spake with us;

Even the YHVH God of hosts; the YHVH is his memorial.

The angel who was the “Presence/Face” of
YHVH who appeared as a cloud by day and pillar of fire by night for the 40 years in the wilderness also wrestled with Jacob and gave Him the Name of the New Man who was to come, as an oracle of the adoption into that Name by those of Adam who enter into the Covenant of the Blood of the Atonement.

In the Book of Enoch, Penuel is the Angel of the Face (of God).
He appears as a man (Ish) to wrestle with Jacob, and a pillar of fire and pillar of a cloud to Israel in the desert for 40 years.
YHVH says “My Name is in Him”, obey Him.

As to things appearing and going through solid walls, that is done by Jesus before His resurrection as well as after, and by Peter and many other disciples of the LORD through the ages, as testimonies left to read attest to.
Nothing of this creation is solid matter, but every thing created is composed of atoms, and if the atoms of a “solid” are not moving around the nucleus at the same speed as another “solid”, then the two do not collide but can pass through. Both are “solid”, but they can pass through one another.
Now that is not my expertise, but the simple-est way I remember a demonstration of that in a creation film....forgot the title, and the name of demonstrator scientist.
Yes as I said spirit beings, spirits do not have bodies but they can appear as many things.
 
Upvote 0