Nathan@work

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Exodus 31:13 calls the Sabbath God's sign. The word sign in this verse is Strong's H226.

The KJV translates Strong's H226 in the following manner: sign(s) (60x), token(s) (14x), ensign(s) (2x), miracles (2x), mark (1x).

אוֹת ʼôwth, oth; probably from H225 (in the sense of appearing); a signal (literally or figuratively), as a flag, beacon, monument, omen, prodigy, evidence, etc.:—mark, miracle, (en-) sign, token.
  1. sign, signal
    1. a distinguishing mark
    2. banner
    3. remembrance
    4. miraculous sign
    5. omen
    6. warning
  2. token, ensign, standard, miracle, proof
The central issue that decides whether you receive the mark of the beast or the Seal of God is worship. We can see this repeatedly in Revelation.

Knowing this, detail is important. Are we worshiping God as He specified? This is the key issue of the end time that determines whether we receive the mark of the beast or the Seal of God.

Notice that the mark of the beast can be received in the forehead or in the hand.
  • Worship by choice (conscientious thought).
  • Worship by action (going along with it, even if you don't believe it).
By contrast, the Seal of God can only be received in the forehead.
  • Worship by choice (conscientious thought).
  • Notice that you can't "go along" with Christianity. Scripture makes that clear.
    • Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
    • Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
    • John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
    • Revelation 3:15-16 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
    • Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
And you can't separate the Sabbath from the end time, nor the new heaven and new earth. Notice: Not "rest in Jesus", not Sunday, but God's seventh day Sabbath.
  • Matthew 24:20-21 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
  • Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
It makes no sense that, if the Sabbath is still a binding commandment during the great tribulation and if the Sabbath is observed in the afterlife, that somehow the Sabbath is irrelevant in-between. Jesus made it a point to mention the Sabbath and link His Seal (God, the creator, who made the heaven and the earth) in the verses of Revelation 14:7, Genesis 2:1-3, Exodus 20:8-11. It is quite deliberate that the same phrase shows up in all of these verses, pointing to creation; it's giving emphasis to the Sabbath.

Matthew 7:13-14 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Just what is the broad way and what is the narrow way? Is it a worship issue as Revelation says? I think so. Just what worship issue is narrow? Could it be the Sabbath? Could Sunday be the broad way that Jesus was speaking of?

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High [Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus], and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.​

You are bypassing a clear passage that states God sends angels to place His seal(not mark) on the forehead. There is a reason why it is translated like that.

In the haste to make a text say something, the SDA has added to the book of Revelation by saying God's seal is a mark.

While the beast allows his mark to be placed on either the hand or forehead, God's is only placed on the forehead.

If the literal day Sabbath(Saturday as you would call it) were the mark, then anyone who chose to worship on that day could be said to be placing the seal on themselves.

We know this is not true by simply reading the passage. No matter how you twist it, you cannot make it say the seal is Sabbath (Saturday) worship.

Instead, maybe if you stepped back, you would see that God's Children, who have entered into God's rest, who have the only 'seal' spoken of in the New Testament - the Spirit - those are the ones who have had the seal of God placed on them.
 
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Jake Arsenal

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You are bypassing a clear passage that states God sends angels to place His seal(not mark) on the forehead. There is a reason why it is translated like that.

In the haste to make a text say something, the SDA has added to the book of Revelation by saying God's seal is a mark.

While the beast allows his mark to be placed on either the hand or forehead, God's is only placed on the forehead.

If the literal day Sabbath(Saturday as you would call it) were the mark, then anyone who chose to worship on that day could be said to be placing the seal on themselves.

We know this is not true by simply reading the passage. No matter how you twist it, you cannot make it say the seal is Sabbath (Saturday) worship.

Instead, maybe if you stepped back, you would see that God's Children, who have entered into God's rest, who have the only 'seal' spoken of in the New Testament - the Spirit - those are the ones who have had the seal of God placed on them.

Romans 14
Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.


The commandment is not to hold a church service on a particular day; the commandment is to keep that day holy(set apart) and do no work. I asked my local SDA pastor why they claim to keep the sabbath while still travelling and performing menial work after church services are over. He was at a loss to answer. I am not sure if this is representing all SDA churches or just the local one.

Exodus 20
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
 
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Let's continue with the OP questions...

Q4. WHAT IS THE ANOTHER GOSPEL?

The other gospel (Galatians 1:6-9) is a counterfeit or false Gospel (Gospel meaning good news of God's Word (the bible) see post # 9 linked) that preaches another Jesus *1 Corinthians 11:4; Matthew 24:5; Matthew 24:24 that is different to the biblical Jesus that is based on the truth of Gods' Word.

Galatians 1:6-9 [6], I marvel that you are so soon REMOVED FROM HIM that called you into the grace of Christ TO ANOTHER (Greek is ἕτερος héteros G2087 means other or different gospel) GOSPEL: [7], WHICH IS NOT ANOTHER; but there be some that trouble you, and would PERVERT THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST. [8], But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than that which we have preached to you, LET HIM BE ACCURSED. [9], As we said before, so say I now again, IF ANY MAN PREACH ANY OTHER GOSPEL TO YOU THAN THAT YOU HAVE RECEIVED LET HIM BE ACCURSED.

According to the scriptures....

1. the "another Gospel" removes us from Jesus *Galatians 1:6
2. the "another Gospel" is a false gospel it is not another true gospel *Galatians 1:7
3. the "another Gospel" perverts the true gospel of Christ *Galatians 1:7
4. those who teach "another Gospel" (false gospel) are accursed *Galatians 1:8-9

Today many Church's in fulfillment of the very words of Jesus and Paul (1 Corinthians 11:4; Matthew 24:5; Matthew 24:24) are preaching another gospel. A different gospel that is a false gospel opposed to the true gospel that is given to us from Jesus and the Apostles and prophets. This gospel is not the everlasting gospel of Revelation 14:6-12 but Satan's counterfeit gospel designed to lead us away from Jesus *Galatians 1:6 and the truth of God's Word *John 17:17 which alone brings Gods' salvation from sin *John 8:31-36; 1 John 5:2-4; 1 John 3:6-9.

This "another Gospel" preaches "smooth things" (compare Isaiah 30:10 with Matthew 24:24) because no one wants to hear a message of doom and judgement to come for those who continue in their sins. This "another Gospel" preaches a message of "peace and safety" before sudden destruction comes for which they will not be able to escape *1 Thessalonians 5:3. According to this scripture it is a message of darkness in those who receive it.

This "another Gospel" preaches a message of peace and safety *1 Thessalonians 5:3 seeking to separate God's love and mercy which is only given to those who believe and keep God's commandments *Exodus 20:6 by Gods grace that works through faith *Ephesians 2:8-9 from God's judgement and justice for sin *Hebrews 10:26-31 stored up for those who reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing.

This "another Gospel" preaches smooth things like separating God's law and the penalty of sin (death) from God's grace *Galatians 3:22-25; Romans 1:5; Matthew 9:12-13 and love *Matthew 22:26-40; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12 and the fruit of obedience as a sign of true faith in God's Word *James 2:18-20; 26.

The "another Gospel" (false gospel} promotes a form of godliness, but denies God's power to save us from our sins *2 Timothy 3:5; 15-16; 2 Peter 1:3-4; John 8:31-36; Revelation 14:12

.................

CONCLUSIONS: The true gospel teaches us that God is a God of love and mercy as well as a God of justice and judgment. The "another gospel" is one that leads us away from God and his Word and
limits Gods word only to God's love and mercy leaving out and denying Gods' justice and judgements for sin (breaking God's commandments). Those preaching this "another gospel" deny God's justice and judgment of God for sin. Yet if there was no justice and judgment for sin, Jesus would not have had to die for the sins of the World. Those who do not teach God is also a God of justice and judgment as well as a God of love and mercy, make a mockery of the cross of Christ which is where God's justice and judgment for sin reveals God's great love and mercy for all mankind.

If you do away with God's justice and judgment for sin you do away with the love of God which is the only place where Gods' great love for mankind is revealed. For God's great love is revealed in his justice and judgment for sin in sending his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life. It is the cross of Jesus in God sending his only begotten son into our world to die for the sins of the whole world where Gods' love is seen. Jesus received Gods' justice and judgement for our sins so that we do not have to and offers forgiveness to all those who accept the free gift of God's grace in Jesus.

Gods' love is revealed in his justice and judgment but those preaching "another gospel" say no... God is not a God of justice and judgement but love and mercy seeking to do away with God's justice and judgement for sin (breaking Gods' commandments), but it is only in the cross of JESUS and his shed blood for all mankind and his sacrifice for sin in receiving God's justice and judgment so that we can be reconciled to God is where Gods' great love is revealed to all mankind.

God bless.
 
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Jake Arsenal

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Let's continue with the OP questions...

Q4. WHAT IS THE OTHER GOSPEL?

The other gospel (Galatians 1:6-9) is a counterfeit or false Gospel (Gospel meaning good news of God's Word (the bible) see post # 9 linked) that preaches another Jesus *1 Corinthians 11:4; Matthew 24:5; Matthew 24:24 that is different to the biblical Jesus that is based on the truth of Gods' Word.

Galatians 1:6-9 [6], I marvel that you are so soon REMOVED FROM HIM that called you into the grace of Christ TO ANOTHER (Greek is ἕτερος héteros G2087 means other or different gospel) GOSPEL: [7], WHICH IS NOT ANOTHER; but there be some that trouble you, and would PERVERT THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST. [8], But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than that which we have preached to you, LET HIM BE ACCURSED. [9], As we said before, so say I now again, IF ANY MAN PREACH ANY OTHER GOSPEL TO YOU THAN THAT YOU HAVE RECEIVED LET HIM BE ACCURSED.

According to the scriptures....

1. the "another Gospel" removes us from Jesus *Galatians 1:6
2. the "another Gospel" is a false gospel it is not another true gospel *Galatians 1:7
3. the "another Gospel" perverts the true gospel of Christ *Galatians 1:7
4. those who teach "another Gospel" (false gospel) are accursed *Galatians 1:8-9

Today many Church's in fulfillment of the very words of Jesus and Paul (1 Corinthians 11:4; Matthew 24:5; Matthew 24:24) are preaching another gospel. A different gospel that is a false gospel opposed to the true gospel that is given to us from Jesus and the Apostles and prophets. This gospel is not the everlasting gospel of Revelation 14:6-12 but Satan's counterfeit gospel designed to lead us away from Jesus *Galatians 1:6 and the truth of God's Word *John 17:17 which alone brings Gods' salvation from sin *John 8:31-36; 1 John 5:2-4; 1 John 3:6-9.

This "another Gospel" preaches "smooth things" (compare Isaiah 30:10 with Matthew 24:24) because no one wants to hear a message of doom and judgement to come for those who continue in their sins. This "another Gospel" preaches a message of "peace and safety" before sudden destruction comes for which they will not be able to escape *1 Thessalonians 5:3. According to this scripture it is a message of darkness in those who receive it.

This "another Gospel" preaches a message of peace and safety *1 Thessalonians 5:3 seeking to separate God's love and mercy which is only given to those who believe and keep God's commandments *Exodus 20:6 by Gods grace that works through faith *Ephesians 2:8-9 from God's judgement and justice for sin *Hebrews 10:26-31 stored up for those who reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing.

This "another Gospel" preaches smooth things like separating God's law and the penalty of sin (death) from God's grace *Galatians 3:22-25; Romans 1:5; Matthew 9:12-13 and love *Matthew 22:26-40; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12 and the fruit of obedience as a sign of true faith in God's Word *James 2:18-20; 26.

The "another Gospel" (false gospel} promotes a form of godliness, but denies God's power to save us from our sins *2 Timothy 3:5; 15-16; 2 Peter 1:3-4; John 8:31-36; Revelation 14:12

.................

CONCLUSIONS: The true gospel teaches us that God is a God of love and mercy as well as a God of justice and judgment. The "another gospel" is one that leads us away from God and his Word and
limits Gods word only to God's love and mercy leaving out and denying Gods' justice and judgements for sin (breaking God's commandments). Those preaching this "another gospel" deny God's justice and judgment of God for sin. Yet if there was no justice and judgment for sin, Jesus would not have had to die for the sins of the World. Those who do not teach God is also a God of justice and judgment as well as a God of love and mercy, make a mockery of the cross of Christ which is where God's justice and judgment for sin reveals God's great love and mercy for all mankind.

If you do away with God's justice and judgment for sin you do away with the love of God which is the only place where Gods' great love for mankind is revealed. For God's great love is revealed in his justice and judgment for sin in sending his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life. It is the cross of Jesus in God sending his only begotten son into our world to die for the sins of the whole world where Gods' love is seen.

Gods' love is revealed in his justice and judgment but those preaching "another gospel" say no... God is not a God of justice and judgement but love and mercy but it is only in the cross of JESUS and his shed blood for all mankind and his sacrifice for sin in receiving God's justice and judgment so that we can be reconciled to God is where Gods' great love is revealed to all mankind. It was the teachings of the serpent in the Garden of lies saying to Eve you can deny God's Word and will not surely die when God says in the day you eat the fruit thereof you shall surely die. Who should we believe God or man?

God bless.

This is the exact point of my avatar.
 
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Nathan@work

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Let's continue with the OP questions...

Q4. WHAT IS THE OTHER GOSPEL?

The other gospel (Galatians 1:6-9) is a counterfeit or false Gospel (Gospel meaning good news of God's Word (the bible) see post # 9 linked) that preaches another Jesus *1 Corinthians 11:4; Matthew 24:5; Matthew 24:24 that is different to the biblical Jesus that is based on the truth of Gods' Word.

Galatians 1:6-9 [6], I marvel that you are so soon REMOVED FROM HIM that called you into the grace of Christ TO ANOTHER (Greek is ἕτερος héteros G2087 means other or different gospel) GOSPEL: [7], WHICH IS NOT ANOTHER; but there be some that trouble you, and would PERVERT THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST. [8], But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than that which we have preached to you, LET HIM BE ACCURSED. [9], As we said before, so say I now again, IF ANY MAN PREACH ANY OTHER GOSPEL TO YOU THAN THAT YOU HAVE RECEIVED LET HIM BE ACCURSED.

According to the scriptures....

1. the "another Gospel" removes us from Jesus *Galatians 1:6
2. the "another Gospel" is a false gospel it is not another true gospel *Galatians 1:7
3. the "another Gospel" perverts the true gospel of Christ *Galatians 1:7
4. those who teach "another Gospel" (false gospel) are accursed *Galatians 1:8-9

Today many Church's in fulfillment of the very words of Jesus and Paul (1 Corinthians 11:4; Matthew 24:5; Matthew 24:24) are preaching another gospel. A different gospel that is a false gospel opposed to the true gospel that is given to us from Jesus and the Apostles and prophets. This gospel is not the everlasting gospel of Revelation 14:6-12 but Satan's counterfeit gospel designed to lead us away from Jesus *Galatians 1:6 and the truth of God's Word *John 17:17 which alone brings Gods' salvation from sin *John 8:31-36; 1 John 5:2-4; 1 John 3:6-9.

This "another Gospel" preaches "smooth things" (compare Isaiah 30:10 with Matthew 24:24) because no one wants to hear a message of doom and judgement to come for those who continue in their sins. This "another Gospel" preaches a message of "peace and safety" before sudden destruction comes for which they will not be able to escape *1 Thessalonians 5:3. According to this scripture it is a message of darkness in those who receive it.

This "another Gospel" preaches a message of peace and safety *1 Thessalonians 5:3 seeking to separate God's love and mercy which is only given to those who believe and keep God's commandments *Exodus 20:6 by Gods grace that works through faith *Ephesians 2:8-9 from God's judgement and justice for sin *Hebrews 10:26-31 stored up for those who reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing.

This "another Gospel" preaches smooth things like separating God's law and the penalty of sin (death) from God's grace *Galatians 3:22-25; Romans 1:5; Matthew 9:12-13 and love *Matthew 22:26-40; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12 and the fruit of obedience as a sign of true faith in God's Word *James 2:18-20; 26.

The "another Gospel" (false gospel} promotes a form of godliness, but denies God's power to save us from our sins *2 Timothy 3:5; 15-16; 2 Peter 1:3-4; John 8:31-36; Revelation 14:12

.................

CONCLUSIONS: The true gospel teaches us that God is a God of love and mercy as well as a God of justice and judgment. The "another gospel" is one that leads us away from God and his Word and
limits Gods word only to God's love and mercy leaving out and denying Gods' justice and judgements for sin (breaking God's commandments). Those preaching this "another gospel" deny God's justice and judgment of God for sin. Yet if there was no justice and judgment for sin, Jesus would not have had to die for the sins of the World. Those who do not teach God is also a God of justice and judgment as well as a God of love and mercy, make a mockery of the cross of Christ which is where God's justice and judgment for sin reveals God's great love and mercy for all mankind.

If you do away with God's justice and judgment for sin you do away with the love of God which is the only place where Gods' great love for mankind is revealed. For God's great love is revealed in his justice and judgment for sin in sending his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life. It is the cross of Jesus in God sending his only begotten son into our world to die for the sins of the whole world where Gods' love is seen.

Gods' love is revealed in his justice and judgment but those preaching "another gospel" say no... God is not a God of justice and judgement but love and mercy but it is only in the cross of JESUS and his shed blood for all mankind and his sacrifice for sin in receiving God's justice and judgment so that we can be reconciled to God is where Gods' great love is revealed to all mankind. It was the teachings of the serpent in the Garden of lies saying to Eve you can deny God's Word and will not surely die when God says in the day you eat the fruit thereof you shall surely die. Who should we believe God or man?

God bless.

1 John 4:18 (ESV)
There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Romans 14
Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.


The commandment is not to hold a church service on a particular day; the commandment is to keep that day holy(set apart) and do no work. I asked my local SDA pastor why they claim to keep the sabbath while still travelling and performing menial work after church services are over. He was at a loss to answer. I am not sure if this is representing all SDA churches or just the local one.

Exodus 20
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:


Hi Jake can you please show us where in any of these scriptures God's WORD is talking about God's 4th Commandment? Romans 14 is not talking about God's 4th commandment Sabbath it is talking about eating and not eating (fasting) on days that men esteem over other days and judging others in this regard. Here is the chapter contexts here.

ROMANS 14:1-22
[1], Him that is weak in the faith receive you, but not to doubtful disputations.
[2], For one believes that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eats herbs.
[3], Let not him that eats despise him that eats not; and let not him which eats not judge him that eats: for God has received him.
[4], Who are you that judge another man's servant? to his own master he stands or falls. Yes, he shall be held up: for God is able to make him stand.
[5], One man esteems one day above another: another esteems every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
[6], He that regards the day, regards it to the Lord; and he that regards not the day, to the Lord he does not regard it. He that eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he that eats not, to the Lord he eats not, and gives God thanks.
[7], For none of us lives to himself, and no man dies to himself.
[8], For whether we live, we live to the Lord; and whether we die, we die to the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
[9], For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
[10], But why do you judge your brother? or why do you set at nothing your brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
[11], For it is written, As I live, said the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
[12], So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
[13], Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumbling block or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
[14], I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteems any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
[15], But if your brother be grieved with your meat, now walk you not charitably. Destroy not him with your meat, for whom Christ died.
[16], Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
[17], For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
[19], Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things with which one may edify another.
[20], For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eats with offense.
[21], It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby your brother stumbles, or is offended, or is made weak.
[22], Have you faith? have it to yourself before God. Happy is he that comdemns not himself in that thing which he allows.
[23], And he that doubts is damned if he eat, because he eats not of faith: for whatever is not of faith is sin.

ROMANS 14 is talking about eating and not eating connected to days that men esteem over other days, not what days God esteems. The things that men esteem are an abomination in God's eyes.

LUKE 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God

There is no mention in all of ROMANS 14 of God's 4th commandment of any of God's 10 commandments. Your reading into the scriptures something it is not talking about.

KEY POINTS ON ROMANS 14

[1] the days spoken of are associated with eating/drinking, not eating/not drinking.
[2] the matter is over those 'weak' and 'strong' in faith concerning eating/drinking and days to do and not do those things on

[3] the context deals with "One man esteemeth", and not what God esteems (Isaiah 56:1-8, 58:13; Psalms 89:34) as permanent and so, and God's word is clear about what men esteem:

Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

The Jews continually argued over which were better days to do this thing or that thing, like fasting, feasting, etc: [Matthew 9:14; Mark 2:18; Luke 5:33, 18:12 KJB]

[4] the words for sabbath is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans
[5] the words of the seventh day is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans
[6] the words for the Lord's day is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans
[7] Romans 14 is in the context of Romans 13, which directly cites the latter (2nd) table of the Ten Commandments, for love to neighbour, which is also found in Leviticus 19:17-18, in the context of sin and the Ten Commandments

[8] Romans 15 is the other end, and when combined with 1 Corinthians 8-10, the context is clear that the sabbath of the LORD thy God (Exodus 20:8-11) is not in view in the least, and is sustained by the rest of Paul in Romans by his statements on the eternal spiritual, holy, just and good Law (Exodus 20:1-17) of God, which identifies what sin is (Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

[9] the entire context of Romans 14 is to do nothing (even if allowed normally, yet not under special circumstances) to cause others to sin:

Romans 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

[10] Paul never contradicts himself, and Paul's writings are scripture (2 Peter 3:16), and scripture cannot be broken, John 10:35) and does not teach transgression of God's Law (Exodus 20:1-17) at any point:

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Romans 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Romans7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

[11] the words for "law", "commandments" are never used in Romans 14
[12] Paul in numerous places lists and upholds every single one of the Ten Commandments in the NT, including the 4th Commandment (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11) in Hebrews 3-4, etc.

[13] Romans 14 is about excluding those things which were "doubful disputations", and not a single one of the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:1-17) were ever doubtful or to be disputed in any place in all of scripture (KJB), for the Commandment of God are "sure" (Psalms 111:7).

[14] the words for "covenant/testament" are never used in Romans 14
[15] the words for 'first [day] of the week' are never used in Romans 14, neither in all of Romans

[16] none of the 'Sunday' (first [day] of the week) churches use Romans 14 to teach that I may ignore the day they gather on, even though that day is not sanctified by God in any way what so ever in scripture (KJB), and is never called "the Lord's day" in scripture, neither is it "the seventh day the sabbath of the LORD thy God".

[17] nobody uses Romans 14 to teach I can simply stop eating/drinking on every day
[18] anyone who quotes Romans 14, has in mind 'restrictions', rather than allowances

.................

CONCLUSION: Nothing about God's 4th commandment in there at all. The scriptures are talking about food connected to days (eating and not eating (fasting) on days men esteem over other days. Not what days God esteems and judging others.

The things that men esteem are an abomination in God's eyes.

LUKE 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God

There is no mention in all of ROMANS 14 of God's 4th commandment or any of God's 10 commandments. Your reading into the scriptures something it is not talking about.

Hope this helps.
 
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Jake Arsenal

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Hi Jake can you please show us where in any of these scriptures God's WORD is talking about God's 4th Commandment? Romans 14 is not talking about God's 4th commandment Sabbath it is talking about eating and not eating (fasting) on days that men esteem over other days and judging others in this regard. Here is the chapter contexts here.

ROMANS 14:1-22
[1], Him that is weak in the faith receive you, but not to doubtful disputations.
[2], For one believes that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eats herbs.
[3], Let not him that eats despise him that eats not; and let not him which eats not judge him that eats: for God has received him.
[4], Who are you that judge another man's servant? to his own master he stands or falls. Yes, he shall be held up: for God is able to make him stand.
[5], One man esteems one day above another: another esteems every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
[6], He that regards the day, regards it to the Lord; and he that regards not the day, to the Lord he does not regard it. He that eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he that eats not, to the Lord he eats not, and gives God thanks.
[7], For none of us lives to himself, and no man dies to himself.
[8], For whether we live, we live to the Lord; and whether we die, we die to the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
[9], For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
[10], But why do you judge your brother? or why do you set at nothing your brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
[11], For it is written, As I live, said the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
[12], So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
[13], Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumbling block or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
[14], I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteems any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
[15], But if your brother be grieved with your meat, now walk you not charitably. Destroy not him with your meat, for whom Christ died.
[16], Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
[17], For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
[19], Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things with which one may edify another.
[20], For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eats with offense.
[21], It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby your brother stumbles, or is offended, or is made weak.
[22], Have you faith? have it to yourself before God. Happy is he that comdemns not himself in that thing which he allows.
[23], And he that doubts is damned if he eat, because he eats not of faith: for whatever is not of faith is sin.

ROMANS 14 is talking about eating and not eating connected to days that men esteem over other days, not what days God esteems. The things that men esteem are an abomination in God's eyes.

LUKE 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God

There is no mention in all of ROMANS 14 of God's 4th commandment of any of God's 10 commandments. Your reading into the scriptures something it is not talking about.

KEY POINTS ON ROMANS 14

[1] the days spoken of are associated with eating/drinking, not eating/not drinking.
[2] the matter is over those 'weak' and 'strong' in faith concerning eating/drinking and days to do and not do those things on

[3] the context deals with "One man esteemeth", and not what God esteems (Isaiah 56:1-8, 58:13; Psalms 89:34) as permanent and so, and God's word is clear about what men esteem:

Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

The Jews continually argued over which were better days to do this thing or that thing, like fasting, feasting, etc: [Matthew 9:14; Mark 2:18; Luke 5:33, 18:12 KJB]

[4] the words for sabbath is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans
[5] the words of the seventh day is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans
[6] the words for the Lord's day is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans
[7] Romans 14 is in the context of Romans 13, which directly cites the latter (2nd) table of the Ten Commandments, for love to neighbour, which is also found in Leviticus 19:17-18, in the context of sin and the Ten Commandments

[8] Romans 15 is the other end, and when combined with 1 Corinthians 8-10, the context is clear that the sabbath of the LORD thy God (Exodus 20:8-11) is not in view in the least, and is sustained by the rest of Paul in Romans by his statements on the eternal spiritual, holy, just and good Law (Exodus 20:1-17) of God, which identifies what sin is (Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

[9] the entire context of Romans 14 is to do nothing (even if allowed normally, yet not under special circumstances) to cause others to sin:

Romans 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

[10] Paul never contradicts himself, and Paul's writings are scripture (2 Peter 3:16), and scripture cannot be broken, John 10:35) and does not teach transgression of God's Law (Exodus 20:1-17) at any point:

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Romans 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Romans7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

[11] the words for "law", "commandments" are never used in Romans 14
[12] Paul in numerous places lists and upholds every single one of the Ten Commandments in the NT, including the 4th Commandment (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11) in Hebrews 3-4, etc.

[13] Romans 14 is about excluding those things which were "doubful disputations", and not a single one of the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:1-17) were ever doubtful or to be disputed in any place in all of scripture (KJB), for the Commandment of God are "sure" (Psalms 111:7).

[14] the words for "covenant/testament" are never used in Romans 14
[15] the words for 'first [day] of the week' are never used in Romans 14, neither in all of Romans

[16] none of the 'Sunday' (first [day] of the week) churches use Romans 14 to teach that I may ignore the day they gather on, even though that day is not sanctified by God in any way what so ever in scripture (KJB), and is never called "the Lord's day" in scripture, neither is it "the seventh day the sabbath of the LORD thy God".

[17] nobody uses Romans 14 to teach I can simply stop eating/drinking on every day
[18] anyone who quotes Romans 14, has in mind 'restrictions', rather than allowances

.................

CONCLUSION: Nothing about God's 4th commandment in there at all. The scriptures are talking about food connected to days (eating and not eating (fasting) on days men esteem over other days. Not what days God esteems and judging others.

The things that men esteem are an abomination in God's eyes.

LUKE 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God

There is no mention in all of ROMANS 14 of God's 4th commandment or any of God's 10 commandments. Your reading into the scriptures something it is not talking about.

Hope this helps.

My quoting of Romans 14 was in regard to not judging other Christians and therefore in defense of SDA brethren. Now that you've covered that, let's move on to my question:

My questioning of SDA teachings was from Exodus 20. Let's talk about that? Do you actually keep the Sabbath day holy and do no work? Do all SDA? Some? None? Or do you just go to Church on Saturdays? That was my question.

And the point of that question goes back to @Nathan@work's point about the seal of God.

The commandment is not to hold a church service on a particular day; the commandment is to keep that day holy(set apart) and do no work. I asked my local SDA pastor why they claim to keep the sabbath while still travelling and performing menial work after church services are over. He was at a loss to answer. I am not sure if this is representing all SDA churches or just the local one.

Exodus 20
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
 
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Danthemailman

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It is impossible for the Sabbath to be the sign and seal in Revelation.

The sign and seal in Revelation, for the faithful, is a mark placed on the person.

If the sign and seal was the Sabbath, that would mean the person is placing the mark on themselves.

[Rev 7:3 ESV] saying, "Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads."
Not once in the New Testament is the Sabbath ever referred to as a sign or a seal for Christians.

Sabbath as Seal of God
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Not once in the New Testament is the Sabbath ever referred to as a sign or a seal for Christians.

Your kind of spreading misinformation here Dan on what we believe.

GOD'S SABBATH IS A SEAL TO THE 10 COMMANDMENTS


We believe that the Sabbath is the seal of God's 10 commandments (not our seal) because it is the only commandment that identifies God as the creator of heaven and earth, the owner of the 10 Commandments and that the Sabbath is a sign of who God's people are as they keep all of Gods' commandments according to the scriptures of the old and new covenant.

IS GODS SABBATH A SIGN?

Ezekiel 20:12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

Ezekiel 20:20 And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that you may know that I am the LORD your God.

Exodus 31:13, Speak you also to the children of Israel, saying, Truly my sabbaths you shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that you may know that I am the LORD that does sanctify you. [14], You shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy to you: every one that defiles it shall surely be put to death: for whoever does any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. [15], Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whoever does any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. [16], Why the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. [17], It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

.................

WHO ARE GOD'S ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT?

There is no such thing as Jew or Greek anymore. All who believe and follow God's Word are one in Christ. Israel in the OLD COVENANT were those from the seed of Abraham. In the NEW COVENANT, if you are in Christ then you are Abrahams seed and heirs according to the promise...

Ephesians 2:11-13 [11], Why remember, that you being in TIME PAST Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; [12], That AT THAT TIME [in the Past] YOU WERE WITHOUT CHRIST, BEING ALIENS FROM THE COMMONWEALTH OF ISRAEL, STRANGERS FROM THE COVENANT OF PROMISE, HAVING NO HOPE, AND WITHOUT GOD IN THE WORLD: [13], BUT NOW IN CHRIST JESUS, YOU WHO WERE FAR OFF ARE MADE NEAR BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST.

Galatians 3:28-29 [28], THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YOU ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS AND IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED FOR YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS [29], and IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN ARE YOU ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE.

God's true ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are not by name only but all those in Christ. Those of the FLESH (sinful human nature) are not Abrahams seed but those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God in Christ are God's ISRAEL...

Romans 9:6-8 [6], FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: [7], NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> [8], That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED.

God's ISRAEL are all those in CHRIST that have been given a NEW HEART according to the NEW COVENANT promise...

Romans 2:28-29 [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

In the NEW COVENANT all those in Christ are are God's ISRAEL...

Colossians 3:11 [11], WHERE THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: BUT CHRIST IS ALL IN ALL.

Romans 10:11-13 [11], For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. [12], FOR THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JEW OR GREEK: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. [13], FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED.

The New Covenant is for God's Israel...

Ezekiel 36:26-27 [26], A NEW HEART WILL I GIVE YOU, AND A NEW SPIRIT WILL I PUT WITHIN YOU; AND I WILL TAKE AWAY THE STONY HEART OUT OF YOUR FLESH, AND GIVE YOU A HEART OF FLESH. [27], AND I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT WITHIN YOU, AND CAUSE YOU TO WALK IN MY STATUTES AND YOU SHALL KEEP MY JUDGEMENTS AND DO THEM.

and again...

Jeremiah 31:33-34 [33], BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS,AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. [34], And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Paul proclaims it here...

Hebrews 8:10-12 [10], BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS, AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [11], And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. [12], For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

The NEW COVENANT is for GOD'S ISRAEL which represent those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God’s WORD. If you are not part of GOD'S ISRAEL then you are not a part of the NEW COVENANT (Hebrews 8:10-12).

............

CONCLUSION: God's ISRAEL is the name given by God to all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. GENTILES are now grafted in. If you are not a part of the God's ISRAEL then you have no part in the NEW COVENANT.

...........

DO GOD'S PEOPLE (ISRAEL) IN THE NEW COVENANT KEEP ALL THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD?

James 2:10-11 [10], For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. [11], For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if you commit no adultery, yet if you kill, you are become a transgressor of the law.

Isaiah 8:16 [16] Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.

Gods law is sealed among His true disciples.


1 John 2:3-4 [3]And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
[4], He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

...............


WHAT IS GOD'S SEAL THAT HIS DISCIPLES ARE SEALED WITH?

2 Corinthians 1:21-22, [21] Now he which establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, is God [22], Who has also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Ephesians 1:12-14, [12] That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. [13], In whom you also trusted, after that you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that you believed, you were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, [14], Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of his glory.

...............


HOW DO WE RECEIVE THE SEAL OF GOD'S SPIRIT?

Acts of the Apostles 5:32 Act 5:32, And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God has given to them that obey him.

Act of the Apostles 2:38 Then Peter said to them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

...............


DO WE HAVE GOD'S SPIRIT IF WE DO NOT BELIEVE GOD'S WORD AND BREAK GOD'S COMMANDMENTS?

1 John 2:3-4 [3] And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
[4], He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3:4 Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.


1 John 3:6-10 [10] Whoever stays in him sins not: whoever sins has not seen him, neither known him.
[7], Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. [8], He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.[9], Whoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. [10], In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

Matthew 22:36-40 [36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law? [37], Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. [38], This is the first and great commandment. [39], And the second is like to it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.[40], On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Romans 13:8-10 [8], Owe no man anything, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law.[9], for this, thou shalt not commit adultery, thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not lie, thou shalt not covet; and if there shall be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.[10], love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yes, we establish the law.

John 14:15 If you love me keep my commandments

John 15:10 If you keep my commandments, you shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus

....................

God's people according to the scriptures only receive God's Spirit if they believe and follow God's Word. In the new covenant God's ISRAEL are all those who believe and follow Gods' Word. There are no more Jewish and Gentiles believers. All are now one in Christ. If we are not a part of Gods' ISRAEL we have no part in God's new covenant promise. Gentile believers are now grafted in.

Hope this is helpful.
 
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Nathan@work

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Hi Jake can you please show us where in any of these scriptures God's WORD is talking about God's 4th Commandment? Romans 14 is not talking about God's 4th commandment Sabbath it is talking about eating and not eating (fasting) on days that men esteem over other days and judging others in this regard. Here is the chapter contexts here.

ROMANS 14:1-22
[1], Him that is weak in the faith receive you, but not to doubtful disputations.
[2], For one believes that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eats herbs.
[3], Let not him that eats despise him that eats not; and let not him which eats not judge him that eats: for God has received him.
[4], Who are you that judge another man's servant? to his own master he stands or falls. Yes, he shall be held up: for God is able to make him stand.
[5], One man esteems one day above another: another esteems every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
[6], He that regards the day, regards it to the Lord; and he that regards not the day, to the Lord he does not regard it. He that eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he that eats not, to the Lord he eats not, and gives God thanks.
[7], For none of us lives to himself, and no man dies to himself.
[8], For whether we live, we live to the Lord; and whether we die, we die to the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
[9], For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
[10], But why do you judge your brother? or why do you set at nothing your brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
[11], For it is written, As I live, said the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
[12], So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
[13], Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumbling block or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
[14], I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteems any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
[15], But if your brother be grieved with your meat, now walk you not charitably. Destroy not him with your meat, for whom Christ died.
[16], Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
[17], For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
[19], Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things with which one may edify another.
[20], For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eats with offense.
[21], It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby your brother stumbles, or is offended, or is made weak.
[22], Have you faith? have it to yourself before God. Happy is he that comdemns not himself in that thing which he allows.
[23], And he that doubts is damned if he eat, because he eats not of faith: for whatever is not of faith is sin.

ROMANS 14 is talking about eating and not eating connected to days that men esteem over other days, not what days God esteems. The things that men esteem are an abomination in God's eyes.

LUKE 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God

There is no mention in all of ROMANS 14 of God's 4th commandment of any of God's 10 commandments. Your reading into the scriptures something it is not talking about.

KEY POINTS ON ROMANS 14

[1] the days spoken of are associated with eating/drinking, not eating/not drinking.
[2] the matter is over those 'weak' and 'strong' in faith concerning eating/drinking and days to do and not do those things on

[3] the context deals with "One man esteemeth", and not what God esteems (Isaiah 56:1-8, 58:13; Psalms 89:34) as permanent and so, and God's word is clear about what men esteem:

Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

The Jews continually argued over which were better days to do this thing or that thing, like fasting, feasting, etc: [Matthew 9:14; Mark 2:18; Luke 5:33, 18:12 KJB]

[4] the words for sabbath is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans
[5] the words of the seventh day is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans
[6] the words for the Lord's day is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans
[7] Romans 14 is in the context of Romans 13, which directly cites the latter (2nd) table of the Ten Commandments, for love to neighbour, which is also found in Leviticus 19:17-18, in the context of sin and the Ten Commandments

[8] Romans 15 is the other end, and when combined with 1 Corinthians 8-10, the context is clear that the sabbath of the LORD thy God (Exodus 20:8-11) is not in view in the least, and is sustained by the rest of Paul in Romans by his statements on the eternal spiritual, holy, just and good Law (Exodus 20:1-17) of God, which identifies what sin is (Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

[9] the entire context of Romans 14 is to do nothing (even if allowed normally, yet not under special circumstances) to cause others to sin:

Romans 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

[10] Paul never contradicts himself, and Paul's writings are scripture (2 Peter 3:16), and scripture cannot be broken, John 10:35) and does not teach transgression of God's Law (Exodus 20:1-17) at any point:

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Romans 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Romans7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

[11] the words for "law", "commandments" are never used in Romans 14
[12] Paul in numerous places lists and upholds every single one of the Ten Commandments in the NT, including the 4th Commandment (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11) in Hebrews 3-4, etc.

[13] Romans 14 is about excluding those things which were "doubful disputations", and not a single one of the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:1-17) were ever doubtful or to be disputed in any place in all of scripture (KJB), for the Commandment of God are "sure" (Psalms 111:7).

[14] the words for "covenant/testament" are never used in Romans 14
[15] the words for 'first [day] of the week' are never used in Romans 14, neither in all of Romans

[16] none of the 'Sunday' (first [day] of the week) churches use Romans 14 to teach that I may ignore the day they gather on, even though that day is not sanctified by God in any way what so ever in scripture (KJB), and is never called "the Lord's day" in scripture, neither is it "the seventh day the sabbath of the LORD thy God".

[17] nobody uses Romans 14 to teach I can simply stop eating/drinking on every day
[18] anyone who quotes Romans 14, has in mind 'restrictions', rather than allowances

.................

CONCLUSION: Nothing about God's 4th commandment in there at all. The scriptures are talking about food connected to days (eating and not eating (fasting) on days men esteem over other days. Not what days God esteems and judging others.

The things that men esteem are an abomination in God's eyes.

LUKE 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God

There is no mention in all of ROMANS 14 of God's 4th commandment or any of God's 10 commandments. Your reading into the scriptures something it is not talking about.

Hope this helps.

Your correct, there is no mention of the 10 commandments specifically.

What there is a mention of is Faith. And not only is Faith the calling of a believer, it is what we stand before God in - not in our doing something according to the law. That is the point Paul is making.

The Gospel is about Faith.
 
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Nathan@work

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Your kind of spreading misinformation here Dan on what we believe.

GOD'S SABBATH IS A SEAL TO THE 10 COMMANDMENTS


We believe that the Sabbath is the seal of God's 10 commandments (not our seal) because it is the only commandment that identifies God as the creator of heaven and earth, the owner of the 10 Commandments and that the Sabbath is a sign of who God's people are as they keep all of Gods' commandments according to the scriptures of the old and new covenant.

IS GODS SABBATH A SIGN?

Ezekiel 20:12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

Ezekiel 20:20 And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that you may know that I am the LORD your God.

Exodus 31:13, Speak you also to the children of Israel, saying, Truly my sabbaths you shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that you may know that I am the LORD that does sanctify you. [14], You shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy to you: every one that defiles it shall surely be put to death: for whoever does any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. [15], Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whoever does any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. [16], Why the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. [17], It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

.................

WHO ARE GOD'S ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT?

There is no such thing as Jew or Greek anymore. All who believe and follow God's Word are one in Christ. Israel in the OLD COVENANT were those from the seed of Abraham. In the NEW COVENANT, if you are in Christ then you are Abrahams seed and heirs according to the promise...

Ephesians 2:11-13 [11], Why remember, that you being in TIME PAST Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; [12], That AT THAT TIME [in the Past] YOU WERE WITHOUT CHRIST, BEING ALIENS FROM THE COMMONWEALTH OF ISRAEL, STRANGERS FROM THE COVENANT OF PROMISE, HAVING NO HOPE, AND WITHOUT GOD IN THE WORLD: [13], BUT NOW IN CHRIST JESUS, YOU WHO WERE FAR OFF ARE MADE NEAR BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST.

Galatians 3:28-29 [28], THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YOU ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS AND IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED FOR YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS [29], and IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN ARE YOU ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE.

God's true ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are not by name only but all those in Christ. Those of the FLESH (sinful human nature) are not Abrahams seed but those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God in Christ are God's ISRAEL...

Romans 9:6-8 [6], FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: [7], NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> [8], That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED.

God's ISRAEL are all those in CHRIST that have been given a NEW HEART according to the NEW COVENANT promise...

Romans 2:28-29 [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

In the NEW COVENANT all those in Christ are are God's ISRAEL...

Colossians 3:11 [11], WHERE THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: BUT CHRIST IS ALL IN ALL.

Romans 10:11-13 [11], For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. [12], FOR THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JEW OR GREEK: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. [13], FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED.

The New Covenant is for God's Israel...

Ezekiel 36:26-27 [26], A NEW HEART WILL I GIVE YOU, AND A NEW SPIRIT WILL I PUT WITHIN YOU; AND I WILL TAKE AWAY THE STONY HEART OUT OF YOUR FLESH, AND GIVE YOU A HEART OF FLESH. [27], AND I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT WITHIN YOU, AND CAUSE YOU TO WALK IN MY STATUTES AND YOU SHALL KEEP MY JUDGEMENTS AND DO THEM.

and again...

Jeremiah 31:33-34 [33], BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS,AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. [34], And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Paul proclaims it here...

Hebrews 8:10-12 [10], BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS, AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [11], And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. [12], For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

The NEW COVENANT is for GOD'S ISRAEL which represent those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God’s WORD. If you are not part of GOD'S ISRAEL then you are not a part of the NEW COVENANT (Hebrews 8:10-12).

............

CONCLUSION: God's ISRAEL is the name given by God to all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. GENTILES are now grafted in. If you are not a part of the God's ISRAEL then you have no part in the NEW COVENANT.

...........

DO GOD'S PEOPLE (ISRAEL) IN THE NEW KEEP ALL THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD?

James 2:10-11 [10], For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. [11], For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if you commit no adultery, yet if you kill, you are become a transgressor of the law.

Isaiah 8:16 [16] Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.

Gods law is sealed among His true disciples.


1 John 2:3-4 [3]And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
[4], He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

...............


WHAT IS GOD'S SEAL THAT HIS DISCIPLES ARE SEALED WITH?

2 Corinthians 1:21-22, [21] Now he which establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, is God [22], Who has also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Ephesians 1:12-14, [12] That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. [13], In whom you also trusted, after that you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that you believed, you were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, [14], Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of his glory.

...............


HOW DO WE RECEIVE THE SEAL OF GOD'S SPIRIT?

Acts of the Apostles 5:32 Act 5:32, And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God has given to them that obey him.

Act of the Apostles 2:38 Then Peter said to them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

...............


DO WE HAVE GOD'S SPIRIT IF WE DO NOT BELIEVE GOD'S WORD AND BREAK GOD'S COMMANDMENTS?

1 John 2:3-4 [3] And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
[4], He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3:4 Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.


1 John 3:6-10 [10] Whoever stays in him sins not: whoever sins has not seen him, neither known him.
[7], Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. [8], He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.[9], Whoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. [10], In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

Matthew 22:36-40 [36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law? [37], Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. [38], This is the first and great commandment. [39], And the second is like to it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.[40], On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Romans 13:8-10 [8], Owe no man anything, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law.[9], for this, thou shalt not commit adultery, thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not lie, thou shalt not covet; and if there shall be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.[10], love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yes, we establish the law.

John 14:15 If you love me keep my commandments

John 15:10 If you keep my commandments, you shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus

....................

God's people according to the scriptures only receive God's Spirit if they believe and follow God's Word. In the new covenant God's ISRAEL are all those who believe and follow Gods' Word. There are no more Jewish and Gentiles believers. All are now one in Christ. If we are not a part of Gods' ISRAEL we have no part in God's new covenant promise. Gentile believers are now grafted in.

Hope this is helpful.

Galatians 3:2 (ESV)
Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Your correct, there is no mention of the 10 commandments specifically. What there is a mention of is Faith. And not only is Faith the calling of a believer, it is what we stand before God in - not in our doing something according to the law. That is the point Paul is making. The Gospel is about Faith.

Hello Nathan,

Has anyone said to you that was are saved by what we do? As posted earlier to someone else so there is no misunderstandings, I believe we are saved by God's grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9 but Gods grace is so we can be obedient to the faith *Romans 1:5. Obedience to God's Law is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 as we believe and follow his word *John 10:26-27. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27. Therefore we do not abolish God's law through faith like some people teach but God's law is established in the heart by faith that works by love *Romans 3:31; 1 John 5:3-4; Romans 13:8-10. According to the scriptures, sin (breaking God' commandments and not believing and following God's Word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:6-10; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14.

Do you believe we live by faith if we are lying, stealing, committing adultery, using God's name in vain or making idols and worshiping them etc etc... when God asks us not to do these things? What do you think Romans 3:31 and James 2:17-20; 26 mean? According to the scriptures saving faith is believing and doing (through the Spirit), what Gods' Word says we should do. No one has saving faith by saying they believe God and not doing what Gods' Word says to do. This is the faith of devils according to James 2:17-19

Hope this is helpful
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Your correct, there is no mention of the 10 commandments specifically.

Thank you for being honest, and therefore no mention of the Sabbath also in Romans 14.
 
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My quoting of Romans 14 was in regard to not judging other Christians and therefore in defense of SDA brethren. Now that you've covered that, let's move on to my question:

My questioning of SDA teachings was from Exodus 20. Let's talk about that? Do you actually keep the Sabbath day holy and do no work? Do all SDA? Some? None? Or do you just go to Church on Saturdays? That was my question.

And the point of that question goes back to @Nathan@work's point about the seal of God.

Absolutely according to the scriptures as shared with you earlier Jake, God's seventh day Sabbath is a holy day of rest. No work, buying or selling, business or secular work of any kind. It is ok to do good on the Sabbath however as taught by Jesus.

God bless
 
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Nathan@work

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Hello Nathan,

Has anyone said to you that was are saved by what we do? As posted earlier to someone else so there is no misunderstandings, I believe we are saved by God's grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9 but Gods grace is so we can be obedient to the faith *Romans 1:5. Obedience to God's Law is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 as we believe and follow his word *John 10:26-27. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27. Therefore we do not abolish God's law through faith like some people teach but God's law is established in the heart by faith that works by love *Romans 3:31; 1 John 5:3-4; Romans 13:8-10. According to the scriptures, sin (breaking God' commandments and not believing and following God's Word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:6-10; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14.

Do you believe we live by faith if we are lying, stealing, committing adultery, using God's name in vain or making idols and worshiping them etc etc... when God asks us not to do these things? What do you think Romans 3:31 and James 2:17-20; 26 mean? According to the scriptures saving faith is believing and doing (through the Spirit), what Gods' Word says we should do. No one has saving faith by saying they believe God and not doing what Gods' Word says to do. This is the faith of devils according to James 2:17-19

Hope this is helpful

Has anyone said in this thread that we abolish the law?

I think the problem is that you do not understand what sin is. Sin is not just breaking one of God's commandments, sin is not being absolutely perfect. Do you think that you are perfect by doing what you think the commandments say?

We are not living by Faith if we are in sin. However, if we are living by Faith, we are not in sin.

This is the Gospel. When we are living by Faith, we are being led by the Spirit, and He does not lead us into sin - we are perfect before God's eyes because of Jesus' righteousness, not because of our works.

Faith takes the focus off the law, and puts it onto Christ.
 
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Davy

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Hello Davey, I am not sure why you think I am arguing with you here. My last post (post # 157) only shows that Exodus 20:13 in the Hebrew word for kill/murder between the translations can be translated as kill or murder because the Hebrew word means both kill and murdering people. Killing with intent is murder which I believe is the meaning of the scripture here.

And in Matthew 19:18 the Greek word used is specific to 'murder', which is Lord Jesus quoting from Exodus 20.


NT:5406
phoneus (fon-yooce'); from NT:5408; a murderer (always of criminal [or at least intentional] homicide; which NT:443 does not necessarily imply; while NT:4607 is a special term for a public bandit):

KJV - murderer.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006, 2010 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)
 
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Davy

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Sorry Davey, I respectfully disagree as you have been provided both scripture, context, and the Greek word applications showing why Antichrists are plural application in post # 19 linked, post # 20 linked which stand alone as a light to what is true and what is not true so we will agree to disagree as you have not addressed these post but simply repeated what you said the first time in your earlier claims.

Now you are stretching, because you definitely have not... covered all the Scripture evidences that I gave on the matter of the coming false Messiah to Jerusalem.

And in your post #19, all you did was try to use Greek as your reason for your interpretation against a singular antichrist figure in Matthew 24:24, when the context of the Matthew 24:23 & Matthew 24:26 verses that go with it are in the singular tense, about a specific false-Christ. In other words, you missed the forest for the trees. I side with Dr. James Strong, because he noticed that context and thus defined pseudochristos as being about a singular false Messiah:


NT:5580
pseudochristos (psyoo-dokh'-ris-tos); from NT:5571 and NT:5547; a spurious Messiah:

KJV - false Christ.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006, 2010 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

And that definition, "a spurious Messiah" just so happens to align with the warnings Apostle Paul gave in 2 Thessalonians 2:4 about the coming of a 'singular' false one to Jerusalem to play God, and also by Apostle John in Revelation 13:11 forward called the "another beast" which is about a singular entity that is to work miracles that will deceive the whole world at the end of this world.

What those who are against the Scriptures on this are doing is trying to keep brethren deceived about the warnings in God's Word for a particular false Messiah that is coming to Jerusalem at the end to play God, and have the power to work great signs and wonders that IF possible, would deceive even Christ's very elect, which is the very subject Lord Jesus was teaching in the Matthew 24:23-26 verses, and also Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, and John in Revelation 13:11 forward.

So you can keep pushing hot air to try and fool... others here that's you've countered all this, but you have not.
 
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And in Matthew 19:18 the Greek word used is specific to 'murder', which is Lord Jesus quoting from Exodus 20.
NT:5406
phoneus (fon-yooce'); from NT:5408; a murderer (always of criminal [or at least intentional] homicide; which NT:443 does not necessarily imply; while NT:4607 is a special term for a public bandit):

KJV - murderer.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006, 2010 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

Actually no Davy, the Greek Word used here is used in the new testament as either kill or murder just like it is in the Hebrew. So it really just depends on what bible translation your using.

For example...

American Standard Version
He saith unto him, Which? And Jesus said, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

Darby Bible Translation
He says to him, Which? And Jesus said, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

English Revised Version
He saith unto him, Which? And Jesus said, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

Geneva Bible of 1587
He sayd to him, Which? And Iesus sayde, These, Thou shalt not kill: Thou shalt not commit adulterie: Thou shalt not steale: Thou shalt not beare false witnesse

Tyndale Bible of 1526
The other sayde to him Which? And Iesus sayde: breake no wedloke kill not steale not: beare not falce witnes:

Weymouth New Testament
"Which Commandments?" he asked. Jesus answered, "'Thou shalt not kill;' 'Thou shalt not commit adultery;' 'Thou shalt not steal;' 'Thou shalt not lie in giving evidence;

Worrell New Testament
He says to Him, "Which?" And Jesus said, "You shall not kill; you shall not commit adultery; you shall not steal; you shall not bear false witness;

Young's Literal Translation
He saith to him, 'What kind?' And Jesus said, 'Thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not commit adultery, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not bear false witness,

.................

Here is also the Greek word meaning and use in scripture to either murder or kill

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - G5407

φονεύω (phoneúō | fon-yoo'-o)
Derivation: from G5406;
Strong's: to be a murderer (of)
kill, do murder, slay.
See: G5406
Cognate Group: G5400 (fearful sight), G5399 (be afraid), G5401 (be afraid)
Variants: φονεύω
Hebrew Equivalents: הָרַג, חָרַם, נָכָה, רָצַח
Other Resources: Thayer LSJ VGNT CWD GrLNT

AV Occurrences (18 Instances, 11 Words)
thou shalt (2)
Matt 5:21; Rom 13:9
kill (5)
Matt 5:21; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20; Rom 13:9; James 2:11
shall kill (1)
Matt 5:21

thou shalt do (1)
Matt 19:18
murder (1)
Matt 19:18
them which killed (1)
Matt 23:31
ye slew (1)
Matt 23:35

do (3)
Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20; James 2:11
thou kill (1)
James 2:11
ye kill (1)
James 4:2
killed (1)
James 5:6


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You seem to be of the view I am arguing with you that the Hebrew or Greek word does not mean murder. I am not I am only showing as I did earlier that the Hebrew word רָצַח (râtsach | H7523) means either to murder or to kill as shown in the Greek use above and in the Hebrew in post # 157 linked.

Hope this is helpful
 
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