would your church agree to these rules?

Daniel Marsh

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Are these rules fair?

"Church-owned sites and any information on these sites, including the names and addresses of those who have submitted information, may not be used for selling or promoting products or services, soliciting clients, or any other commercial purpose.

...

Presentations are in harmony with Church doctrine.

Guest speakers or instructors are not paid a fee, do not recruit participants, and do not solicit customers or clients.

The travel expenses of guest speakers or instructors are not paid, either with local unit budget funds or by private contributions.

Presentations comply with the guidelines for using Church facilities (see 35.4)." (38-church-policies-and-guidelines)

"
). The following list provides examples of uses that are not approved:

Renting or leasing Church facilities for commercial purposes.

Promoting business ventures or investment enterprises, including posting commercial advertising or sponsoring commercial entertainment.

Buying, selling, or promoting products, services, publications, or creative works or demonstrating wares.

Holding unauthorized fundraising activities (see 20.6.8).

Hosting speakers or instructors who are paid a fee, who recruit participants, or who solicit customers or clients while giving seminars, lessons, aerobics classes, and so on. Exceptions may be made to use meetinghouse pianos and organs for paid private instruction (see 19.7).

Holding regular community or club events that are not sponsored by the Church, such as Scout meetings and activities, or organized athletic events and practices.

Holding political meetings or campaigns. As an exception, Church facilities may be used for voter registration and as polling places at the request of voting officials if:
There is no reasonable alternative.

The officials and voters maintain Church standards in the building.

The event will not pose physical danger to the building.

The event will not harm the image of the Church.
The use of Church property should not pose a significant risk of harm to participants or to the property. Nor should it unduly expose the Church to liability or disturb surrounding neighbors." ( general-handbook/35-physical-facilities )

"
The Church does not:

Endorse, promote or oppose political parties, candidates or platforms.
Allow its church buildings, membership lists or other resources to be used for partisan political purposes.
Attempt to direct its members as to which candidate or party they should give their votes to. This policy applies whether or not a candidate for office is a member of The Church ..." (official-statement political-neutrality)
 

Hank77

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Are these rules fair?

"Church-owned sites and any information on these sites, including the names and addresses of those who have submitted information, may not be used for selling or promoting products or services, soliciting clients, or any other commercial purpose.

...

Presentations are in harmony with Church doctrine.

Guest speakers or instructors are not paid a fee, do not recruit participants, and do not solicit customers or clients.

The travel expenses of guest speakers or instructors are not paid, either with local unit budget funds or by private contributions.

Presentations comply with the guidelines for using Church facilities (see 35.4)." (38-church-policies-and-guidelines)

"
). The following list provides examples of uses that are not approved:

Renting or leasing Church facilities for commercial purposes.

Promoting business ventures or investment enterprises, including posting commercial advertising or sponsoring commercial entertainment.

Buying, selling, or promoting products, services, publications, or creative works or demonstrating wares.

Holding unauthorized fundraising activities (see 20.6.8).

Hosting speakers or instructors who are paid a fee, who recruit participants, or who solicit customers or clients while giving seminars, lessons, aerobics classes, and so on. Exceptions may be made to use meetinghouse pianos and organs for paid private instruction (see 19.7).

Holding regular community or club events that are not sponsored by the Church, such as Scout meetings and activities, or organized athletic events and practices.

Holding political meetings or campaigns. As an exception, Church facilities may be used for voter registration and as polling places at the request of voting officials if:
There is no reasonable alternative.

The officials and voters maintain Church standards in the building.

The event will not pose physical danger to the building.

The event will not harm the image of the Church.
The use of Church property should not pose a significant risk of harm to participants or to the property. Nor should it unduly expose the Church to liability or disturb surrounding neighbors." ( general-handbook/35-physical-facilities )

"
The Church does not:

Endorse, promote or oppose political parties, candidates or platforms.
Allow its church buildings, membership lists or other resources to be used for partisan political purposes.
Attempt to direct its members as to which candidate or party they should give their votes to. This policy applies whether or not a candidate for office is a member of The Church ..." (official-statement political-neutrality)
I don't see a problem with any of it, in fact, I agree with much of it.
Which ones, if any do you not agree with?
 
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Daniel Marsh

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Hi Hank, if a church has those rules, would we not expect their members to apply the same rules to themselves when dealing with other churches? or with groups that does not allow solicitation of any kind on their properties?

I too do not see a problem with those rules.
 
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Hank77

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Hi Hank, if a church has those rules, would we not expect their members to apply the same rules to themselves when dealing with other churches? or with groups that does not allow solicitation of any kind on their properties?

I too do not see a problem with those rules.
Yes, unless they have made a different agreement with the other church, I think, not sure without more specifics.

Yes, for sure.
 
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seeking.IAM

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...Buying, selling, or promoting products, services, publications, or creative works or demonstrating wares...

Holding regular community or club events that are not sponsored by the Church, such as Scout meetings and activities, or organized athletic events and practices...

My church would not agree as written, especially because of these two.
  • My church has a gift shop that sells religious publications, jewlry, & art objects.
  • We provide space for weekly Gambler's Anonymous and Alcoholics Anonymous meetings that are not church sponsored. We provide space only.
 
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Aussie Pete

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Are these rules fair?

"Church-owned sites and any information on these sites, including the names and addresses of those who have submitted information, may not be used for selling or promoting products or services, soliciting clients, or any other commercial purpose.

...

Presentations are in harmony with Church doctrine.

Guest speakers or instructors are not paid a fee, do not recruit participants, and do not solicit customers or clients.

The travel expenses of guest speakers or instructors are not paid, either with local unit budget funds or by private contributions.

Presentations comply with the guidelines for using Church facilities (see 35.4)." (38-church-policies-and-guidelines)

"
). The following list provides examples of uses that are not approved:

Renting or leasing Church facilities for commercial purposes.

Promoting business ventures or investment enterprises, including posting commercial advertising or sponsoring commercial entertainment.

Buying, selling, or promoting products, services, publications, or creative works or demonstrating wares.

Holding unauthorized fundraising activities (see 20.6.8).

Hosting speakers or instructors who are paid a fee, who recruit participants, or who solicit customers or clients while giving seminars, lessons, aerobics classes, and so on. Exceptions may be made to use meetinghouse pianos and organs for paid private instruction (see 19.7).

Holding regular community or club events that are not sponsored by the Church, such as Scout meetings and activities, or organized athletic events and practices.

Holding political meetings or campaigns. As an exception, Church facilities may be used for voter registration and as polling places at the request of voting officials if:
There is no reasonable alternative.

The officials and voters maintain Church standards in the building.

The event will not pose physical danger to the building.

The event will not harm the image of the Church.
The use of Church property should not pose a significant risk of harm to participants or to the property. Nor should it unduly expose the Church to liability or disturb surrounding neighbors." ( general-handbook/35-physical-facilities )

"
The Church does not:

Endorse, promote or oppose political parties, candidates or platforms.
Allow its church buildings, membership lists or other resources to be used for partisan political purposes.
Attempt to direct its members as to which candidate or party they should give their votes to. This policy applies whether or not a candidate for office is a member of The Church ..." (official-statement political-neutrality)
Mostly OK. I'd be happy to help out guest speakers with their expenses. That seems only reasonable and scriptural. The tone of the rule list seems harsh, legalistic and not friendly.
 
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GreekOrthodox

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Our fellowship hall includes basketball court and stage, commercially approved kitchen, and a lobby where we have coffee after church, well... pre-Covid, is available for public rentals including PSAT testing, Kiwanis luncheons, wedding receptions, craft fairs, etc.

The church building is not available for anything outside of liturgical activities or teaching.

Why are you asking?
 
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The Liturgist

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My church would not agree as written, especially because of these two.
  • My church has a gift shop that sells religious publications, jewlry, & art objects.
  • We provide space for weekly Gambler's Anonymous and Alcoholics Anonymous meetings that are not church sponsored. We provide space only.

And as I see it this is fine. Churches should actually operate gift shops connected to the fellowship hall (if so equipped) and otherwise attached to the Narthex rather than the nave. I do have a problem with the gift stalls one sees in the nave or the cafes one finds in the crypt of many C of E cathedrals and parishes, because the crypt is a holy space in which in many places the deceased are interred, and it is ideal for use as a chapel.

It is also legitimate for churches to anathematize politicians and foreign dictators whose policies threaten religious freedom or are pro-death. During the Revolutionary War, I am proud of the Congregational Church’s reputation as the “Black Robed Regiment” of the Americans, as opposed to the Loyalist or indeterminate reputation of other denominations. I am also proud that we took a political stand against slavery, in so doing, we were obeyin Canon 73 of the Council of Carthage, which commands preaching against slavery. And the early church also took political stands against the bloodsport and bathhouses of the Roman Empire (which were heavily used for sexual exploitation of prostitutes and young boys - most baths had attached bathhouses, so the Roman love for bathing was not analogous to the very decent American practice of swimming).

For the record, here is Canon 73 of Carthage, from the Pedalion (Rudder), the Nomocanon of the Eastern Orthodox Church, from which I selectively extracted those canons relative to the present time, including Canon 73 of Carthage, and used them as the canons of my Congregational parish.​

As concerns the rightfulness of proclaiming men free, it is plain
that if our fellow priests appear to be doing this all over Italy, and if
our own conviction plainly tends in this direction, permission having
been granted upon the sending of a legate, in order that any effort
worthy of the faith may be made in behalf of the ecclesiastical
situation and the salvation of souls, and we ourselves may be
received with praise before the Lord.
 
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The Liturgist

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Our fellowship hall includes basketball court and stage, commercially approved kitchen, and a lobby where we have coffee after church, well... pre-Covid, is available for public rentals including PSAT testing, Kiwanis luncheons, wedding receptions, craft fairs, etc.

The church building is not available for anything outside of liturgical activities or teaching.

Indeed, and this is completely allowed according to the ancient canons. There is even an ancient canon that lets animals be kept in the church if weather conditions pose a threat to them and there is no other place for them to be put.

As for why the OP is asking about the alternative set of ecclesiastical regulations he posts, some of them accord with canon law and some of them are unprecedented, and they have no authority over Protestant, Roman Catholic, Eastern Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and Assyrian churches, each of which has its own canon laws. Frustratingly, because I can’t read Syriac or Arabic, I can’t read the Assyrian, Syriac Orthodox or Coptic nomocanons (but I am thankful for what I can get). The Presbyterians do a particularly good job of making accessible their nomocanon through The Book of Common Order of the Church of Scotland and its decendents, which double as service books.
 
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seeking.IAM

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My church would not agree as written, especially because of these two.
  • My church has a gift shop that sells religious publications, jewlry, & art objects.
  • We provide space for weekly Gambler's Anonymous and Alcoholics Anonymous meetings that are not church sponsored. We provide space only.
And as I see it this is fine. Churches should actually operate gift shops connected to the fellowship hall (if so equipped) and otherwise attached to the Narthex rather than the nave.

Yes, of course. I should have clarified that neither of these activites take place in the nave. My church occupies half a city block with a lot of education/fellowship space. I suppose within the context of the OP, it begs the question what the OP considers the "church." Is it worship space or other space?

We hold a high regard for the concept of sacred space. One would not sit in our nave during mass sipping coffee and having a doughnut as would be permitted in some more contemporary churches, let alone do any of the activities there listed in the OP.
 
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seeking.IAM

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I will add for many churches there is an aspect of practicality. Churches that are space rich but money poor may rent out their large facility to be able to support their own ministry. I don't see that as a bad thing.

Some churches are also ecumenical, making their space available on their off hours when they are not using it to other start-up religious groups who are unable to afford their own building yet. I don't find that a bad thing either.

Many of these things I might classify under the church's effort to love their neighbor.
 
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