The Death and True Resurrection of Jesus.

Bro.T · Mar 15, 2021

DamianWarS said:
None of this changes when Christ was resurrected since scripture is explict with this. Before sunrise on the 1st day and after the Sabbath. You are free to count backwards to determine when he died.

You have miss the whole point my friend.

Bro.T · Mar 15, 2021

klutedavid said:
Do you believe that Jesus rose on the third day or after the third day?

I believe what Jesus says (Matthew 12:38) Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. 39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. This is very clear to me.

Bro.T · Mar 15, 2021

prodromos said:
"In 3 days" does not equal "3 days and 3 nights"

(Matthew 12:38) Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. 39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

DamianWarS · Mar 15, 2021

Bro.T said:
You have miss the whole point my friend.

you mean you're sabbath agenda?

Davy · Mar 15, 2021

ViaCrucis said:
Pascha is also the word used throughout the Church around the world and throughout history to refer to the Feast of Christ's resurrection. We do not celebrate the Jewish Passover, but the Christian Passover, Holy Pascha, the Feast of Christ's Resurrection.

"Easter" is a uniquely English word. The only other language which has a variant of it is German with the cognate Ostern. Greek, Latin, French, Italian, Dutch, Icelandic, Ethiopian, Aramaic, Arabic--it's all Pascha.

Kαλό Πάσχα!
Χριστός Ανέστη!

-CryptoLutheran

"Easter" is not only an old Saxon term from Eastre, but originally from Astarte, the Syrian Venus, named Ashtoreth in the Old Testament, the goddess of the Zidonians. Worship of Ashtoreth was one of king Solomon's downfalls.

I recognize also a Christian Passover, Jesus Christ, our Passover sacrificed for us, like Apostle Paul said. Jesus was crucified to the hour of the required time of the OT passover sacrifice per Exodus.

Davy · Mar 15, 2021

klutedavid said:
Jesus rose on the third day. If Jesus was in the tomb for a full three days and nights, then logically, Jesus could not have risen on the third day!

That's reverse logic against the Scripture which does not work. And it's strange that you think what you said even 'sounds' right, when it is not.

Lord Jesus said His body would be in the tomb for 3 days and 3 nights, and that has to be a literal 3 days and 3 nights for His prophecy to be true. You cannot change that timing.

So go ahead, count from Friday evening to Sunday morning and see if that's 3 days and 3 nights. You will find it is not.

ViaCrucis · Mar 15, 2021

Davy said:
"Easter" is not only an old Saxon term from Eastre, but originally from Astarte

False.

-CryptoLutheran

Yeshua HaDerekh · Mar 15, 2021

Bro.T said:
Tradition of Man - Good Friday & Easter SU M T W TH F S
Days 1 1
Nights 1 1

Again you are ignoring scripture and the testimony of eyewitnesses on the road to Emmaus.

Davy · Mar 15, 2021

klutedavid said:
How can there be two Sabbaths in a week?

A Sabbath is a seventh day. You cannot have two seventh days in a week.

Something is deeply wrong in your interpretation.

The Passover feast included a "high day", which was to be treated as a sabbath.

This is from 19th Christian scholar E.W. Bullinger:

Appendix 156: "Six Days before the Passover" (John 12:1)

"We are furnished by Scripture with certain facts and fixed points which, taken together, enable us (1) to determine the events which filled up the days of "the last week" of our Lord's life on earth; (2) to fix the day of His crucifixion; and (3) to ascertain the duration of the time He remained in the tomb.
The difficulties connected with these three have arisen (1) from not having noted these fixed points; (2) from the fact of Gentiles' not having been conversant with the law concerning the three great feasts of the LORD; and (3) from not having reckoned the days as commencing (some six hours before our own) and running from sunset to sunset, instead of from midnight to midnight.
To remove these difficulties, we must note:—
I. That the first day of each of the three feasts, Passover, Pentecost, and Tabernacles, was "a holy convocation", a "sabbath" on which no servile work was to be done. See Lev 23:7,24,35. Cp. Ex 12:16.
"That Sabbath" and the "high day" of John 19:31, was the "holy convocation", the first day of the feast, which quite overshadowed the ordinary weekly sabbath.
It was called by the Jews Yom tov ( = Good day), and this is the greeting on that day throughout Jewry down to the present time.
This great sabbath, having been mistaken from the earliest times for the weekly sabbath, has led to all the confusion.
II. This has naturally caused the further difficulty as to the Lord's statement that "even as Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights, so shall the Son of man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights" (Matt 12:40). Now, while it is quite correct to speak according to Hebrew idiom of "three days" or "three years", while they are only parts of three days or three years, yet that idiom does not apply in a case like this, where "three nights" are mentioned in addition to "three days". It will be noted that the Lord not only definitely states this, but repeats the full phraseology, so that we may not mistake it. See the subject fully discussed in Ap. 144.
III. We have therefore the following facts furnished for our sure guidance:
1. The "high day" of John 19:31 was the first day of the feast.
2. The "first day of the feast" was on the 15 th day of Nisan.
3. The 15 th day of Nisan, commenced at sunset on what we should call the 14 th.
4. "Six days before the passover" (John 12:1) takes us back to the 9 th day of Nisan.
5. "After two days is the passover" (Matt 26:2. Mark 14:1) takes us to the 13 th day of Nisan.
6. "The first day of the week", the day of the resurrection (Matt 28:1, &c.), was from our Saturday sunset to our Sunday sunset. This fixes the days of the week, just as the above fix the days of the month, for:
7. Reckoning back from this, "three days and three nights" (Matt 12:40), we arrive at the day of the burial, which must have been before sunset, on the 14 th of Nisan; i.e. before our Wednesday sunset.
8. This makes the sixth day before the passover (the 9 th day of Nisan) to be our Thursday sunset to Friday sunset.
Therefore Wednesday, Nisan 14 th (commencing on the Tuesday at sunset), was "the preparation day", on which the crucifixion took place: for all four Gospels definitely say that this was the day on which the Lord was buried (before our Wednesday sunset), "because it was the preparation [day]" the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, "for that sabbath day was a high day", and, therefore, not the ordinary seventh day, or weekly sabbath. See John 19:31"
(from E. W. Bullinger's Companion Bible: Notes and Appendices. Biblesoft Formatted Electronic Database Copyright © 2014 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)

Yeshua HaDerekh · Mar 15, 2021

Bro.T said:
(Matthew 12:38) Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. 39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

They will condemn him to death and will turn him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified. On the third day he will be raised to life! He raised at night so where do you say He was lying? In 3 days, on the 3rd day, in 3 days and 3 nights...??

Yeshua HaDerekh · Mar 15, 2021

Bro.T said:
I believe what Jesus says (Matthew 12:38) Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. 39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. This is very clear to me.

and yet you ignore all other scriptures

Yeshua HaDerekh · Mar 15, 2021

Davy said:
That's reverse logic against the Scripture which does not work. And it's strange that you think what you said even 'sounds' right, when it is not.

Lord Jesus said His body would be in the tomb for 3 days and 3 nights, and that has to be a literal 3 days and 3 nights for His prophecy to be true. You cannot change that timing.

So go ahead, count from Friday evening to Sunday morning and see if that's 3 days and 3 nights. You will find it is not.

You want literal? It says 3 days and 3 nights...not 3 nights and 3 days...

Yeshua HaDerekh · Mar 15, 2021

Davy said:
The Passover feast included a "high day", which was to be treated as a sabbath.

This is from 19th Christian scholar E.W. Bullinger:

Appendix 156: "Six Days before the Passover" (John 12:1)

"We are furnished by Scripture with certain facts and fixed points which, taken together, enable us (1) to determine the events which filled up the days of "the last week" of our Lord's life on earth; (2) to fix the day of His crucifixion; and (3) to ascertain the duration of the time He remained in the tomb.
The difficulties connected with these three have arisen (1) from not having noted these fixed points; (2) from the fact of Gentiles' not having been conversant with the law concerning the three great feasts of the LORD; and (3) from not having reckoned the days as commencing (some six hours before our own) and running from sunset to sunset, instead of from midnight to midnight.
To remove these difficulties, we must note:—
I. That the first day of each of the three feasts, Passover, Pentecost, and Tabernacles, was "a holy convocation", a "sabbath" on which no servile work was to be done. See Lev 23:7,24,35. Cp. Ex 12:16.
"That Sabbath" and the "high day" of John 19:31, was the "holy convocation", the first day of the feast, which quite overshadowed the ordinary weekly sabbath.
It was called by the Jews Yom tov ( = Good day), and this is the greeting on that day throughout Jewry down to the present time.
This great sabbath, having been mistaken from the earliest times for the weekly sabbath, has led to all the confusion.
II. This has naturally caused the further difficulty as to the Lord's statement that "even as Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights, so shall the Son of man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights" (Matt 12:40). Now, while it is quite correct to speak according to Hebrew idiom of "three days" or "three years", while they are only parts of three days or three years, yet that idiom does not apply in a case like this, where "three nights" are mentioned in addition to "three days". It will be noted that the Lord not only definitely states this, but repeats the full phraseology, so that we may not mistake it. See the subject fully discussed in Ap. 144.
III. We have therefore the following facts furnished for our sure guidance:
1. The "high day" of John 19:31 was the first day of the feast.
2. The "first day of the feast" was on the 15 th day of Nisan.
3. The 15 th day of Nisan, commenced at sunset on what we should call the 14 th.
4. "Six days before the passover" (John 12:1) takes us back to the 9 th day of Nisan.
5. "After two days is the passover" (Matt 26:2. Mark 14:1) takes us to the 13 th day of Nisan.
6. "The first day of the week", the day of the resurrection (Matt 28:1, &c.), was from our Saturday sunset to our Sunday sunset. This fixes the days of the week, just as the above fix the days of the month, for:
7. Reckoning back from this, "three days and three nights" (Matt 12:40), we arrive at the day of the burial, which must have been before sunset, on the 14 th of Nisan; i.e. before our Wednesday sunset.
8. This makes the sixth day before the passover (the 9 th day of Nisan) to be our Thursday sunset to Friday sunset.
Therefore Wednesday, Nisan 14 th (commencing on the Tuesday at sunset), was "the preparation day", on which the crucifixion took place: for all four Gospels definitely say that this was the day on which the Lord was buried (before our Wednesday sunset), "because it was the preparation [day]" the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, "for that sabbath day was a high day", and, therefore, not the ordinary seventh day, or weekly sabbath. See John 19:31"
(from E. W. Bullinger's Companion Bible: Notes and Appendices. Biblesoft Formatted Electronic Database Copyright © 2014 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)

FALSE. Inclusive counting is used. 6 days would be on the 14th of Nisan...that is Passover...the 15th was a Sabbath...the 1st day of unleavened bread...

Davy · Mar 15, 2021

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
You are wrong. It says for that Sabbath (the weekly Sabbath) was a "high day"...that was the 15th of Nisan. He died on the preparation day...Friday. The eyewitnesses on the road to Emmaus prove the timeline.

That "high day" was not the regular weekly sabbath. With the feast of Passover, the first day was to be a high day, and no servile work was to be done.

This from 19th century Christian scholar E.W. Bullinger:

Appendix 156: "Six Days before the Passover" (John 12:1)

"We are furnished by Scripture with certain facts and fixed points which, taken together, enable us (1) to determine the events which filled up the days of "the last week" of our Lord's life on earth; (2) to fix the day of His crucifixion; and (3) to ascertain the duration of the time He remained in the tomb.
The difficulties connected with these three have arisen (1) from not having noted these fixed points; (2) from the fact of Gentiles' not having been conversant with the law concerning the three great feasts of the LORD; and (3) from not having reckoned the days as commencing (some six hours before our own) and running from sunset to sunset, instead of from midnight to midnight.
To remove these difficulties, we must note:—
I. That the first day of each of the three feasts, Passover, Pentecost, and Tabernacles, was "a holy convocation", a "sabbath" on which no servile work was to be done. See Lev 23:7,24,35. Cp. Ex 12:16.
"That Sabbath" and the "high day" of John 19:31, was the "holy convocation", the first day of the feast, which quite overshadowed the ordinary weekly sabbath.
It was called by the Jews Yom tov ( = Good day), and this is the greeting on that day throughout Jewry down to the present time.
This great sabbath, having been mistaken from the earliest times for the weekly sabbath, has led to all the confusion.
II. This has naturally caused the further difficulty as to the Lord's statement that "even as Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights, so shall the Son of man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights" (Matt 12:40). Now, while it is quite correct to speak according to Hebrew idiom of "three days" or "three years", while they are only parts of three days or three years, yet that idiom does not apply in a case like this, where "three nights" are mentioned in addition to "three days". It will be noted that the Lord not only definitely states this, but repeats the full phraseology, so that we may not mistake it. See the subject fully discussed in Ap. 144.
III. We have therefore the following facts furnished for our sure guidance:
1. The "high day" of John 19:31 was the first day of the feast.
2. The "first day of the feast" was on the 15 th day of Nisan.
3. The 15 th day of Nisan, commenced at sunset on what we should call the 14 th.
4. "Six days before the passover" (John 12:1) takes us back to the 9 th day of Nisan.
5. "After two days is the passover" (Matt 26:2. Mark 14:1) takes us to the 13 th day of Nisan.
6. "The first day of the week", the day of the resurrection (Matt 28:1, &c.), was from our Saturday sunset to our Sunday sunset. This fixes the days of the week, just as the above fix the days of the month, for:
7. Reckoning back from this, "three days and three nights" (Matt 12:40), we arrive at the day of the burial, which must have been before sunset, on the 14 th of Nisan; i.e. before our Wednesday sunset.
8. This makes the sixth day before the passover (the 9 th day of Nisan) to be our Thursday sunset to Friday sunset.
Therefore Wednesday, Nisan 14 th (commencing on the Tuesday at sunset), was "the preparation day", on which the crucifixion took place: for all four Gospels definitely say that this was the day on which the Lord was buried (before our Wednesday sunset), "because it was the preparation [day]" the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, "for that sabbath day was a high day", and, therefore, not the ordinary seventh day, or weekly sabbath. See John 19:31."
(from E. W. Bullinger's Companion Bible: Notes and Appendices. Biblesoft Formatted Electronic Database Copyright © 2014 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)

Bro.T · Mar 15, 2021

truefiction1 said:
There are 3 nights and 3 days between Good Friday and Holy Pascha on Sunday, actually, because in the Bible, if a thing occurs during any part of one 24 hour day it is accounted for the whole day, including the Eve before. So, a Friday crucifixion encapsulates Thursday evening and a Sunday resurrection encapsulates Saturday evening and Sunday. Thus, His soul was in hell (the heart of the Earth) for three nights and three days, just as He said. That is what the ancient Christian elders knew and where contemporary know-it-alls err.

To better illustrate this logic, I present the following Biblical example:

(1) To us, three days and three nights generally means 72 hours, but we must understand the Bible historically and culturally. For the Jewish mind, this could mean any part of the first day, all of the second day, and any part of the third day. This is obvious by comparing Esther 4:16 and 5:1. Esther mentioned fasting for three days and nights and said that she would then go into the king, which she did, but 5:1 tells us clearly that it was on the third day that she went into the king, not after three days or on the fourth. This simply illustrates the way the Jews reckoned time.

(2) Further, the statement “after three days” could mean to the Jewish mind “on the third day” since any part of that day was considered the third day

Quite frankly, the holy and ancient elders of the Church simply knew Scripture far better and more completely that many of us postmodernists do, and this is because they didn't just read it in order to find fault with others. Rather, they truly lived it in order to become closer with God. These are the men and women of holiness and faith that some, in arrogance, like to assume they are better than. We've nothing to gain from arrogance but eternal torments if we don't repent of it: the great "woe" of the prophet Isaiah to those who are "wise in their own conceits and prudent in their own sight". Orthodox Christians, full of the grace that God gives to those who seek to receive the gift of humility by the action of the Holy Spirit, celebrate Holy Friday, Holy Saturday, and Great and Holy Pascha, which is the Feast of all feasts. Their hearts overflow with the joy of salvation, also in the Holy Spirit, and then they teach transgressors God's way, and sinners then return to Him.

Before, in a post, I suggested to you that you should simply look the explanations up for yourself online, because there are ample articles on this very topic on the web. There was a reason I did this. You see, if you or I or anyone is truly and genuinely seeking God's righteousness, rather than to feed our own desire for self-righteousness, then we will be praying to God for the inner disposition that Christ in His beatitudes calls being "poor in spirit". I got the distinct sense that you came here not to learn, but to teach. Not very many of us ought to teach, as the Holy Apostle Paul warns.

Remember Mary did not come to the Grave site until the first day of the week which is Sunday. (John 20:1) "The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulcher", And it was early in the morning and it was still dark. But Jesus had already risen. So even here Jesus was gone before Easter Sunday Morning.

The Lord’s days begin and end at evening (sunset). (Gen. 1:5) And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first. All biblical days began and ended at sunset.

Jesus went into His grave right before the end of the Passover or Wed. evening. The passing of the Passover brought in the Feast of the Unleavened Bread. So Jesus would Have been in the Grave Wednesday night, Thursday daytime and Thursday night, Friday daytime, Friday night, Saturday daytime and Jesus rose right before the sun went down on Saturday. Hence one has the 3 days and 3 nights which Jesus prophesied.

His death Wednesday night is consistent with the comment of the prophet Daniel, stating the Messiah would be cut off (killed) in the midst of the week. Daniel 9:26-27 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week (Wednesday is the middle of the week) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, (Remember, Jesus is the sacrificial Passover Lamb).

truefiction1 said:
You see, if you or I or anyone is truly and genuinely seeking God's righteousness, rather than to feed our own desire for self-righteousness, then we will be praying to God for the inner disposition that Christ in His beatitudes calls being "poor in spirit". I got the distinct sense that you came here not to learn, but to teach. Not very many of us ought to teach, as the Holy Apostle Paul warns.

I find this part interesting. God is still in the business of working through people. And yet I tell you the truth and you believe me not. An atheist can see this clearly then people who say that believe in Christ. Out of Jesus own mouth he says he would be in the grave for three days and three nights as the prophet Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly (Matthew 12:38-40). Even when Jesus rose it was not Sunday Morning according to the verses in (St. John 20:1-4). There are many things that are being done contrary to the word of God, people must know this. I post a three or four page lesson and most people don't go back to the beginning and read it all. They just skim through the thread.

Davy · Mar 15, 2021

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
The eyewitnesses on the road to Emmaus prove you wrong...it is that simple...

Christ's prophecy that His body would be in the tomb for 3 days and 3 nights is literal, and specific to the Hebrew reckoning for a day (sunset to sunset), not by today's reckoning for a day (midnight to midnight).

So prove that Christ's body was in the tomb for a literal... 3 days and 3 nights. And it MUST fit the Biblical reckoning for a day (sunset to sunset).

Davy · Mar 15, 2021

ViaCrucis said:
False.

-CryptoLutheran

Not false, in reality all... pagan gods or goddesses originate in old Sumer from the religion of Bel (Baal). No marvel then that the Saxon word Eastre had an earlier history as Astarte and thus Ashtoreth.

Davy · Mar 15, 2021

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
You want literal? It says 3 days and 3 nights...not 3 nights and 3 days...

Can't change the required 3 days AND 3 nights per the prophecy. No cheating!

Davy · Mar 15, 2021

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
FALSE. Inclusive counting is used. 6 days would be on the 14th of Nisan...that is Passover...the 15th was a Sabbath...the 1st day of unleavened bread...

Not false. Coupled with the requirement of Jesus' body in the tomb for 3 days and 3 nights further reveals that "high day" was not the regular weekly sabbath.

ViaCrucis · Mar 15, 2021

Davy said:
Not false, in reality all... pagan gods or goddesses originate in old Sumer from the religion of Bel (Baal). No marvel then that the Saxon word Eastre had an earlier history as Astarte and thus Ashtoreth.

Tell you what, show a credible scholarly source that can trace the etymology of this Anglo-Saxon word back to a Semitic origin.

I'm sure, given your great confidence on this matter, that you must be quite familiar with this material and so it should not be any difficulty actually supporting your claim with some form of evidence.

-CryptoLutheran

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