Removing the laws of God- what does it really mean?

Clare73 said:

You have not put the verses of the passage together a unified version of all its points.

Do you know what exegesis is?
It's not refuting points.

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Not really Clare. I am sorry but I respectfully disagree with your claims here but let me show why through the scriptures.

Let's do a recap and talk detail...

Exegesis is when we let the scripture say what the scriptures mean instead of reading into the scriptures what the scriptures have never said. While the opposite of exegesis is eisegesis which is trying to read into the scriptures what the scriptures have never said. Post # 1006 linked proves from the scriptures alone that many of your claims from the scriptures you posted in post 715 was eisegesis (reading into the scriptures what the scriptures do not say or do not teach.

For example...

1. You claim from "Clare73 said: ↑ Christ did not give us the Sabbath commandment, but Christ fulfills the full-time (Hebrews 4:3-4) Sabbath-rest of God to NT believers in his full-time salvation rest from our work to save, and rest in Jesus' finished work which has saved. (Heb 4:8-11)."

This is eisegesis! Where does it say in Hebrews 4:3-4 that Christ fulfills the full-time Sabbath-rest of God to NT believers in his full-time salvation rest from our work to save, and rest in Jesus' finished work which has saved? - Nowhere! As shown in post # 1006 linked

Exegesis is reading from scripture what the scriptures say. This is what the scriptures say..

WHAT IS HIS REST (God's) IN HEBREWS 3 and HEBREWS 4?

HEBREWS 4
[1], Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
[2], For to us was the gospel preached, as well as to them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
[3], For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
[4], For he spoke in a certain place of the SEVENTH DAY on this wise, And God did rest the SEVENTH DAY from all his works.
5, And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

KEY POINTS FROM THE SCRIPTURES OF HEBREWS 4:1-5 (exegesis)

NOTE: CONTEXT is God's REST from the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST OF CREATION (v4-5) and those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW GOD's WORD [the GOSPEL] enter into God's SABBATH REST as GOD did on the SEVENTH DAY of the week. CONTEXT is GOD's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST and those who believe or do not believe God's WORD do not enter into that rest. The new testament writer of Hebrews is warning us that if we do not believe and follow God's Word (the gospel) and we continue in sin and unbelief (Hebrews 3:10-13; 18-19) we will never enter into God's rest (His Rest/My Rest) which is defined as the "seventh day" Sabbath rest in Hebrews 4:1-5.

Hebrews 4:3-5 defines God's rest by saying [3], For we which have believed do enter into rest (our rest from or the gospel rest of believing and following God's Word), as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest (God's rest): although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. [4], For he spoke in a certain place of the "seventh day" on this wise, And God did rest the "seventh day" from all his works. [5], And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest ("seventh day").

You on the other hand try and define Gods rest (the seventh day Sabbath) as something the scriptures are not talking about. Your providing scripture and reading into the scriptures what the scriptures do not say or teach anywhere (eisegesis).

[6], Seeing therefore it remains that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
[7], Again, he limits a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if you will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
[8], For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
[9] SO THEN, IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.

[10], For he that is entered into his rest, he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his. [11], Let us labor therefore to enter that rest, [God’s REST the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH] lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief [rejecting God’s WORD and sin; Hebrews 3].

KEY POINTS OF HEBREWS 4:9 (exegesis)

Now notice Hebrews 4, verse 9: “SO THEN, IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.” In verses 1, 3, 4 and 8, the Greek word for “rest” is katapausin. It means “rest.” But in verse 9, the Greek word for “rest” is sabbatismos, which is a Hebrew word—Sabbat, which means “the Sabbath”—combined with a Greek suffix—ismos, which means “a keeping of” or “a doing of.” Put together, sabbatismo means “a keeping of the Sabbath.” When correctly translated, Hebrews 4:9 should read, “There remains therefore a keeping of the Sabbath to the people of God.”

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2. Your premise in eisegesis of Hebrews 4:1-13 is that Jesus is the Sabbath

Yet the scriptures state nowhere that Jesus is the Sabbath (eisegesis). Hebrews 3:7-19 to Hebrews 4:13 shows that God's Rest/His Rest/My Rest is the seventh day Sabbath from the foundation of the world (exegesis) in Hebrews 4:3-5 and the warning given to God's people in Hebrews 3:7-19 and Hebrews 4:1-13 is that if we do not believe and follow God's Word (the gospel) and continue in sin which is defined in the scriptures as the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4) we will not enter into His REST the seventh day Sabbath rest *Hebrews 4:2-5. There are two rests being described. One is our rest we receive through believing and following God's Word (the gospel) *Matthew 11:28-30; Hebrews 4:2-3 and the other is God's rest *Hebrews 3:11; 18; Hebrews 4:1; 3; 5-6; 8-9; 10-11. Hebrews 4:9 THEREFORE IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH. Why? Because the true seventh day Sabbath rest is a sign of God's true people who God sanctifies to keep all the commandments of God through faith in God's Word *Exodus 31:13; Exodus 31:17; Ezekiel 20:12; Ezekiel 20:20; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 22:14. Your explanation of Hebrews 4 must be in light of all the scriptures provided in Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 4 which you have not done.

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3. You go on to say from Hebrews 4 "Clare73 said: ↑ He is more than just example, he is the NT fulfillment of God's full-time Sabbath rest from his works, in Jesus' full-time salvation rest from our own works to save."

Here you try and claim that Jesus is a sabbath yet where in Hebrews or anywhere in the whole bible does it define Jesus as a sabbath? This is another example of eisegesis. Your trying to read into the scriptures what they do not say and do not teach. There is no scripture that says Jesus is a Sabbath. Jesus is the creator of the Sabbath (Lord) that he made as a Holy day of rest according to Mark 2:27-28 for all mankind. The only definition of what the Sabbath is in scripture is this one.

Exodus 20:10 But the "seventh day is the sabbath" of the LORD your God.

Your reading into the scriptures what the scriptures do not say and do not teach. Jesus kept the Sabbath and taught us how to correctly keep the Sabbath *Matthew 12:1-12 where he also taught us that the Sabbath was made for mankind at creation *Mark 2:27; Genesis 2:1-3 and that Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath day (the Lord's day) *Matthew 12:8. Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 4 are warnings to God's people to believe and follow Gods' Word and that the gospel is the Word of God we are to believe and follow and those who do not believe and follow God's Word do not enter into Gods' rest which is defined in Hebrews 4:1-5 as the seventh day Sabbath. "Therefore" we are told it remains for the people of God (those who have entered into God's rest by believing Gods' Word the gospel) to keep the Sabbath in Hebrews 4:9. Jesus is God and Lord of the Sabbath that he created for all mankind *Mark 2:27-28 and the Sabbath is defined in the scriptures (exegesis) as the "seventh day" of creation in Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11; Hebrews 4:3-4. Therefore we should believe what the scriptures tell us (exegesis) that it remains for the people of God to keep the Sabbath *Hebrews 4:9.

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4. You claim in your post the 10 commandments are the old covenant

While this is partly true it is not completely true as the old Mosaic covenant included both Gods' 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is and the Mosiac book of the covenant written by Moses under God's direction *Exodus 24:7; Deuteronomy 31:9; Exodus 24:3-4; Deuteronomy 31:24-27). As was shown through the scriptures in post # 1006 linked, God's 10 commandments are still a part of the new covenant. It is the "shadow laws" for remission of sins from the Mosaic book of the covenant that are now fulfilled in the new covenant based on better promises *Hebrews 8:1-6; Hebrews 9:1-12; Hebrews 10:1-17. As shown through the scriptures both God's 10 commandments as well as the Mosaic BOOK of the covenant were kept in the Ark of the covenant. God's 10 commandment were placed inside the Ark of the covenant underneath the mercy seat *Exodus 25:16-17; Deuteronomy 10:1-5 while the book of the covenant *Exodus 24:7 was placed in the side of the Ark *Deuteronomy 31:24-26. So the full story here is that both God's 10 commandments as well as the Mosaic book of the law (Exodus 24:7; Deuteronomy 28:61; 29:21; 30:10; 31:24-26; Josiah 1:8; 8:31-34; 23:6; 24:26; 2 Kings 14:6; 22:8-11; 23:24; 2 Chronicles 17:9; 25:4; 34:14-15; Nehemiah 8:1-8;18; 9:3; Galatians 3:10; Hebrews 9:19; Hebrews 10:7 etc). So as shown from the scriptures the old covenant included both the 10 commandments and the Mosaic book of the law which included the shadow laws of remission of sins that pointed to Jesus and God's plan of salvation in the new covenant based on better promises *Hebrews 8:1-6. Hebrews 10:1-17; Psalms 40:7, Then said I, See, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me Hebrews 10:7, Then said I, See, I come in the volume of the book it is written of me, to do your will, O God. It is the volume of the book that pointed to Jesus that is fulfilled in the new covenant based on better promises not God's 10 commandments.

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So, please do not tell me that your post # 715 has not been addressed by exegesis when it clearly has in post # 1006 linked demonstrating what you were trying to present in the scriptures was eisegesis and not exegesis. This post was only sent in love as a help to the discussion. You are of course free to believe as you wish.

Hope this is helpful.

imge said:

The Law of God (10 commandments) which includes the 4th commandment is the work of God (Exodus 32:16) whatsoever God does is forever nothing can be added to it or taken away (Ecclesiastes 3:14). God's Law is perfect converting the soul (Psalms 19:7). It is the very standard of the Old and New Covenants (Exodus 20:1:17, Hebrews 8:10-12). God's Law was spoken by God himself to His people (Exodus 20:1-22). Jesus says Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away (Matthew 25:35). Gods Law is still in force today (Psalms 111:7-8, Revelation 12:17, 14:12, 22:14, 1 John 3:5-8, 1 John 2:3-4 etc.).

There is a lot to be said about the commandments of God throughout the Bible. Ecclesiastics 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep His commandments, For this is man’s all. God's law are the very essence who He is. They have been trampled on by man and no longer held in high regard in fact most churches are teaching you are not required to keep them or only part of them. There are a lot of promises in the Bible for those who keep His commandments. Jesus taught us to follow God's commandments and not commandments of man. Mathew 15:3-9.


God bless

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Not some, but all.

imge said:

Maybe you can explain....

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In reference to your quote from Solomon.

There are more than just 10 commandments God gave - more than just 10 He wrote on stone.

For instance, Jesus said not to be anxious about tomorrow.

We are not at liberty to disregard that because it isn’t written in stone - right?

imge said:

Who said anything about disregarding what Jesus said or any other parts of the Bible? Jesus refers to God’s laws and said He came to do the will of His Father. John 6:38 Jesus came not to abolish the law. Mathew 5:17, 18 so Jesus also held God’s laws in high regard. John 15:10

There are only God’s 10 written on stone; Exodus 34:28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

God’s laws teach us what sin is (James 2:11; Romans 7:7; Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4). If there wasn’t sin we would not need a Savior. Jesus died for our salvation, but grace is not a license to sin.

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I do not think anyone said anything about disregarding what Jesus said. I was asking a question.

Is what Jesus said a commandment? Should we obey what He said?

imge said:

So God gave Himself a commandment?

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Sorry, I don't follow what you're saying.

I'll try rephrasing.
I agree that God told us to keep the Seventh day holy.
I don't think that means he wants us to keep the other days unholy.

imge said:

We should always obey what Jesus asks of us. I never said otherwise. I'm not sure the point you are trying to make here.

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Well, the point is there are more than just "10" commandments of God.

Do you agree?

imge said:

There are more commandments, but there is only 10 of God's commandments written in stone. Are you trying to argue, God's 10 are less significant than the laws He gave to Moses? Or they no longer apply- I am having a hard time understanding the point you are trying to make.

God's LAW was written and made by God alone on two tables of stone and spoken by God himself to his people and nothing was to be added to it. (God's LAW; Ex 32:16; 34:28; Deut 4:13; 10:4; Exodus 20; Romans 3:20, 1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7; Ps 119:172; James 2:8-12; Hebrews 8:10-12; Gal 3:24; Deut 5:22; Ex 34:28; Deut 10:4 Ecc 3:14; Ex 25:16; Deut 10:5)

It is called God's LAW or the 10 Commandment, because God was the one alone who made it and commanded Moses to keep in separated from the book of the law in the Ark of the Covenant (Neh 10:29; Deut 10:4-5; Deut 31:25-26; Deut 4:13; Ex 34:28)

God's LAW was not made by Moses it was made by God alone on two tables of stone and nothing was to be added to it and it was to be separated from the Mosaic book of the law. That is why it is referred to in the scriptures as God's LAW or the 10 commandments (not the 613).

The Mosaic law was made and written and spoken by Moses as directed by God in the book of the covenant. (Mosaic Book of the law; Deut 31:9; Ex 24:3-4; Deut 31:24-27; Col 2:14-17).

God not only commanded Moses to keep the 10 Commandments separated from the Mosaic book of the law in the Ark of the Covenant (Deut 10:5; 31:25-26 nothing was to be added to it (Deut 4:1-2; Deut 5:22)

God makes a distinction between the 10 Commandments and the book of the law of Moses….

2 Kings 21:8, Neither will I make the feet of Israel move any more out of the land which I gave their fathers; only if they will observe to do according to all that I have commanded them, and according to all the law that my servant Moses commanded them.

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So I take it you said all of that to say "yes"?

So if there are more than just 10 of God's commandments, which ones are we to obey in order to fulfill the following passage;

[Rev 14:12 ESV] Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

imge said:

Mark tells us in Revelations, God does have a people. His remnant.

Revelations 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

We keep all 10 of God’s commandments and there are less and less of us, but it doesn’t have to be. God is calling each of us, its up to you do you also want to be part of His people? The Ten is meant to be a blessing. The other spirit has deceived so many about His laws. God bless and good evening. Will be back later.

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How does this work in your mind, when you say that the other spirit has deceived so many about His laws?

If those laws are written on our hearts, then it seems like we would know that.

Isn't that the whole idea of having something written on one's heart?

In that same passage in Jeremiah, I think it talks about people won't say to each other "know the Lord", because they will all know him.

I look in my heart, and I don't see anything written about keeping the Sabbath. I don't see any particular words written at all.

In your view, then, am I not be part of the new covenant?

imge said:

God commandment are Ten, I already said that so the answer is obvious.

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So, just to make sure I am clear, you only believe that we are to obey the 10 written in stone, but not the rest, in order to fulfill the passage in Revelation 14:12?

Why do you believe that?

imge said:

This scripture is referring to God's commandments, that is clear. But, unless you are keeping them in Spirit and in Mind (by our actions) all of them and understand what they really mean, I think its lost on a lot of people. By the way, I did not write the scripture, but I think its wise to understand what it means. We are saved by grace through our faith and we obey God's laws because we are saved.

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So is the passage referring to all of God's commandments or just the 10 written on the tablets?

I ask it again, because now it seems to me that you are saying all of the commandments, not just the 10.